Nolvadex vs Clomid? Test Boosters? - AnabolicMinds.com

Nolvadex vs Clomid? Test Boosters?

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    Nolvadex vs Clomid? Test Boosters?


    Hi, I was wondering what's better for a Superdrol cycle; Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Clomid (Clomiphene).

    I know Nolva should be dosed at at least 20/20/20/10/10 but never looked into Clomid as people reports more side effects and mood swings.

    Also, for PCT would you guys go with a Natty Test Booster like Activate Extreme or Erase? I already have DAA for it but I heard cortisol levels are important and should be under control. What do you think? Thanks!

    Thanks in advance!

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    go with erase and i am looking at torem instead of nolva or clomid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiman View Post
    go with erase and i am looking at torem instead of nolva or clomid.
    Is it really important to have cortisol levels under control?

    I already got my Nolva but I heard good reports about Tore, supposedly it brings you back to normal way faster than Nolva+Clomid, I might give it a try in a future cycle.

    Thanks!
    •   
       

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    Nolva and Activate should be good, or if you go with Revolution PCT and Finaflex Pure Test combo might work too but I'd be save and Do it with Nolvadex
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmlife View Post
    Nolva and Activate should be good, or if you go with Revolution PCT and Finaflex Pure Test combo might work too but I'd be save and Do it with Nolvadex
    Thanks! I already got my Nolvadex, I'm looking for a natty test-booster to stack so I think I'll go with Activate + DAA caps.
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    Superdrol is a progestin... I would've used clomid for that reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFunnel View Post
    Superdrol is a progestin... I would've used clomid for that reason.
    isn't Nolvadex stronger then Clomid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmlife View Post
    isn't Nolvadex stronger then Clomid?
    From my knowledge clomid is better at regulating prolactin levels.

    Nolva is stronger at blocking the E2 Receptor. But Clomid is better with regulating prolactin levels.
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    What about cortisol levels? Any cheap supplements to get that under control?
    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFunnel View Post
    Superdrol is a progestin... I would've used clomid for that reason.
    superdrol is not a progestin

    [quote=FatalFunnel;2808398]From my knowledge clomid is better at regulating prolactin levels.

    clomid doesnt regulate prolactin.. its a SERM

    for prolactin you want ldopa p5p dostinex prami ect


    Quote Originally Posted by diegone View Post
    What about cortisol levels? Any cheap supplements to get that under control?
    Thanks
    yeah vitamin c 1000mg 3x a day

    Quote Originally Posted by diegone View Post
    Hi, I was wondering what's better for a Superdrol cycle; Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Clomid (Clomiphene).

    clomid... because nolva can up-regulate the progesterone receptor

    I know Nolva should be dosed at at least 20/20/20/10/10 but never looked into Clomid as people reports more side effects and mood swings.

    youre gunna be a little moody either way... your hormones are gunna be all f-d up...

    Also, for PCT would you guys go with a Natty Test Booster like Activate Extreme or Erase? I already have DAA for it but I heard cortisol levels are important and should be under control. What do you think? Thanks!

    you can use daa and activate extreme or erase... dont use activate AND erase

    Thanks in advance!
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    [quote=swollen87;2809693]superdrol is not a progestin

    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFunnel View Post
    From my knowledge clomid is better at regulating prolactin levels.

    clomid doesnt regulate prolactin.. its a SERM

    for prolactin you want ldopa p5p dostinex prami ect




    yeah vitamin c 1000mg 3x a day

    Thanks for all the answers! I appreciate it.
    Would it really make a difference that I use Nolva for PCT instead of Clomid? I already got it and paid good money for it I don't feel like wasting more money on Clomid, if it does make a big difference I'll consider it, if not then guess I'll go with Nolva.
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    [quote=diegone;2811902]
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    superdrol is not a progestin




    Thanks for all the answers! I appreciate it.
    Would it really make a difference that I use Nolva for PCT instead of Clomid? I already got it and paid good money for it I don't feel like wasting more money on Clomid, if it does make a big difference I'll consider it, if not then guess I'll go with Nolva.
    same sh*t imo...

    clomid after week 3 can have negative effects
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    [quote=swollen87;2812923]
    Quote Originally Posted by diegone View Post

    same sh*t imo...

    clomid after week 3 can have negative effects
    Oh thanks then I'll be using the Nolva for PCT!
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    suggested nolva run after a 30/30/30/30 SD run??
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinRazor View Post
    suggested nolva run after a 30/30/30/30 SD run??
    40/20/20/10

    with an ai starting week 2 or 3

    0/0/ai/ai (depends which ai you choose)

    aromasin !
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    is erase an ai?
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinRazor View Post
    is erase an ai?
    yes... supposedly a good one too... i just havent seen any bloodwork yet
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    nice..thanks bro..theres a sale for some erase and adamantium get both for 50 bucks. sounds like a good enough deal
    hey one more thing.. does nolva knock your **** in the dirt or have i heard wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinRazor View Post
    nice..thanks bro..theres a sale for some erase and adamantium get both for 50 bucks. sounds like a good enough deal
    hey one more thing.. does nolva knock your **** in the dirt or have i heard wrong?
    it does for some people... not for me...

    all that sh*t is in your head...

    take 7g arginine and stick it in her youll be fine
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    I need some help! Going to run first Ph cycle of Havoc. I have read alot but not enough to feel comfortable starting yet. I have for PCT: AI's Cycle support, DNS's Lean Extreme, Erase, and Novla. Suggestions with structure of cycle and dosages? Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostpuppy View Post
    I need some help! Going to run first Ph cycle of Havoc. I have read alot but not enough to feel comfortable starting yet. I have for PCT: AI's Cycle support, DNS's Lean Extreme, Erase, and Novla. Suggestions with structure of cycle and dosages? Thanks!
    Don't combine Erase & Lean Extreme, both are for cortisol/estrogen regulation and you'll be supressing hormones in your system.
    Just start Nolva and take Erase on your 3rd week of PCT, that should get the job done, there are other supplements too do some research read Superdrol for dummies, even though it's not Havoc you can get some info from there.
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    Hey guys I wanted to try some Nolva at the advice of some body builder friends. I was a total idiot when I was 20 and did a cycle of M1t or Methyl d, I can't remember. Anyhow from then on I gradually felt like ****. Thyroid problems, low sex drive, depressed. Anyhow, I took some chrysin with DMSO recently, and felt like I was 18 again, energy, a lil more aggressive, and up in sex drive. I had kinda gotten used to the low drive thing the past 6 years (26 now), and had no idea I needed to do PCT 6 years ago, but after realizing what chrysin did I began researching and discovered my foolishness and not doing any PCT is probably what lead me down this road. ANYHOW, that said i did bloodwork and my total test was 417 on the 279-800 scale and my total estro was 46 on the 0-54 scale. So I'm thinking my estrogen got stuck in the higher ranges and is whats causing low libido depression foggy thinking etc. Would doing a cycle of nolvadex be a good idea to try and restore my HPTA? Or something else. Any replies are much appreciated thanks guys.

    P.s. I have a large varicocele that im getting the micro surgery for just incase this is throwing things off hormonally too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by herewego1111 View Post
    Hey guys I wanted to try some Nolva at the advice of some body builder friends. I was a total idiot when I was 20 and did a cycle of M1t or Methyl d, I can't remember. Anyhow from then on I gradually felt like ****. Thyroid problems, low sex drive, depressed. Anyhow, I took some chrysin with DMSO recently, and felt like I was 18 again, energy, a lil more aggressive, and up in sex drive. I had kinda gotten used to the low drive thing the past 6 years (26 now), and had no idea I needed to do PCT 6 years ago, but after realizing what chrysin did I began researching and discovered my foolishness and not doing any PCT is probably what lead me down this road. ANYHOW, that said i did bloodwork and my total test was 417 on the 279-800 scale and my total estro was 46 on the 0-54 scale. So I'm thinking my estrogen got stuck in the higher ranges and is whats causing low libido depression foggy thinking etc. Would doing a cycle of nolvadex be a good idea to try and restore my HPTA? Or something else. Any replies are much appreciated thanks guys.

    P.s. I have a large varicocele that im getting the micro surgery for just incase this is throwing things off hormonally too.
    I have seen a doctor prescribing Nolvadex for 6 MONTHS to one of the members in this forum to increase his test levels back on, so I guess you could try but I'm no doctor. All my friends did prohormones like you Superdrol + Halodrol stacked with NO PCT but none of them had long lasting side effects, they said when they stopped taking them everything restored just fine, I'm the only one that researched prohormones and got a PCT in hand, they were 18 when they did it, I am now 20 also and I'm on day 16 on superdrol (pretty mild clone) so far no side effects but I'm taking a bunch of on-cycle and PCT supplements as well, rather be safe than sorry. I'd say you should get checked by a doctor and maybe reduce your estrogen levels with an AI or estrogen-control supplements, also check your cortisol levels and use a natural test booster it could help you, if that doesnt work then you definitely need a doctor.

    One of my theories (I haven't seen a post about it) would be... to use another prohormone (it will raise your test levels again) and then do a proper PCT? I mean every body is a new world, but is there any information that proves this theory wrong? I would like to know, IMO it should work, but not many people wants to do a PH after having a bad experience with one, in last case you can always take the risk.

    Goodluck!
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    Thank you for the reply die, what type of doctor prescribes, because I have considered doing it under medical supervision. I actually found this attached article and am leaning more towards clomid because I'm not doing this as a post cycle thing, I'm looking more to restore my natural production, what are you or any of you guy's thoughts on clomid to restore botched test levels?

    I was debating between Nolvadex and Clomid but it seems like Clomid may be good for any low test caused from PH. Also, my low test may be a combo case due to my stage 3 varicocele and a M1T cycle without PCT.

    Fertil Steril. 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5.
    Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

    OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH. RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis. CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

    PMID: 12524089
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    Clomid, HCGenerate all day. Maybe some creatine too

    Its always done me well
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    Quote Originally Posted by herewego1111 View Post
    Thank you for the reply die, what type of doctor prescribes, because I have considered doing it under medical supervision. I actually found this attached article and am leaning more towards clomid because I'm not doing this as a post cycle thing, I'm looking more to restore my natural production, what are you or any of you guy's thoughts on clomid to restore botched test levels?

    I was debating between Nolvadex and Clomid but it seems like Clomid may be good for any low test caused from PH. Also, my low test may be a combo case due to my stage 3 varicocele and a M1T cycle without PCT.

    Fertil Steril. 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5.
    Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

    OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH. RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis. CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

    PMID: 12524089
    No idea about this brah, It's my first time using a research chemical, I will be done with my sdrol cycle in about 3-4 days and start Nolva... see how that goes, so far no shutdown or any side effects, not that big of results though, i'm pretty disappointed on superdrol, maybe my clone just wasnt good enough definitely didn't meet my expectations.

    Maybe I'll use another PH in a year or so, ill try Clomid next time, for this time I'm going with popular Nolva + natty test booster & some creatine.
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    I run nolva 20,20,10,10, and have done so after 2 epi cycles, and 2 SD to pplex bridges. I also used RESTORE, which is no longer available, but was an AI, Test booster, and cortisol control.....I also like a natty booster from day 1 of PCT, like DAA or Testojack.

    I just did a 14 week inject cycle and PCT was clomid 50,50,50,50, nolva 20,20,10,10, and DAA then ERASE @ week 3, tapered down....

    Different strokes for different folks, but I always recovered fine.....
    True story:

    I give a f**K!!
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    Gym, Die, and Way,
    Thanks for the replies and advice guys. At this point I am leaning towards Clomid only because it's been six years since I did that M1t cycle. After effects were some gyno (got it cut out), and the dreaded low test scores, along with some thyroid adrenal issues. I have hammered my thyroid/adrenal recovery to the T, evidenced by normalized blood test scores, "normal" test scores according the doc, 417! Yah, not normal for a 26 y/0, evidenced by little sex drive and smaller nuts, so I think this is provides rationale for Clomid which according to most bro-science and then more importantly Level 1 evidence like the following suggest should cure it. I just wonder if six years is too long for something like this to help? I have some hcgenerate already so I def will stack it. Are there any side effects of clomid I should be prepared for? I was gonna just get it from CEM products, but I thought about talking to my doc about it, doubt he'd go with it tho, those guys just look at numbers not how you're feeling....for six years.
    If I do the Clomid, what have you had success with as far a dosing schedule or would recommend? Really appreciate your advice guys, looking fwd to getting morning oaks back, drive, mental clarity, and just overall dudeness.

    Fertil Steril. 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5.
    Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

    OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH. RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis. CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

    PMID: 12524089
    Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism.
    Shabsigh A, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E.
    Department of Urology, NY Presbyterian Medical Center, New York, NY, USA.
    J Sex Med. 2005 Sep;2(5):716-21.

    AIM: Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio. METHODS: Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

    RESULTS: The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

    CONCLUSIONS: Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism.This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

    PMID: 16422830 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE][/FONT]

    Study showing a hypogonadic 30-year old male, suffering permanent shutdown from steroid abuse, fully recovered natural hormone levels and HPTA function from 2 months of 100mg Clomid therapy:

    Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.
    Tan RS, Vasudevan D.

    Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Texas Health Sciences Center, Houston, Texas 77030, USA.

    OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male.

    INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months.

    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH.

    RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis.

    CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

    PMID: 12524089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Here's another study showing only 7 days of Clomid therapy increased total testosterone by 100% and, more importantly, free testosterone by over 300% in young men:
    The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate.
    Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Seattle, Washington.

    Serum testosterone (T) levels in men decline with age while serum LH levels, as measured by RIA, increase. To assess if the decline in serum T levels in healthy aging men is paralleled by an age-related decline in the bioavailable non-sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound fraction of T and to determine whether there are age-related changes in LH secretion or LH control of T production, we studied 29 young (aged 22-35 yr) and 26 elderly (aged 65-84 yr) healthy men. All men had single random blood samples drawn, and 14 men in each age group underwent frequent blood sampling for 24 h, both before and after 7 days of clomiphene citrate (CC) administration. Both mean 24-h serum total T levels and non-SHBG-bound T were reduced in elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), while estradiol and SHBG levels were similar in the 2 age groups. Serum FSH determined by RIA and LH by RIA and bioassay were higher in the elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), but the ratios of LH bioactivity to immunoreactivity and the LH pulse frequency and amplitude were similar. After CC administration, mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men increased by 100% and 304%, respectively, while in older men these values increased by only 32% and 8%, respectively. However, CC-stimulated LH pulse characteristics and serum levels of estradiol, SHBG, FSH, and bioactive and immunoreactive LH were similar in the 2 groups. Thus, both at baseline and after CC stimulation, elderly men had significantly lower serum total T and non-SHBG-bound (bioavailable) T levels than did young men, despite similar or increased levels of bioactive LH and similar bioactive to immunoreactive LH ratios and LH pulse characteristics. These results suggest that major age-related changes in the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis occur at the level of the testes and are manifested by decreased responsiveness to bioactive LH. Administration of CC to young and elderly men resulted in similar changes in LH pulse characteristics and LH bioactivity and immunoreactivity, suggesting preserved hypothalamic-pituitary responsiveness in the elderly.

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987 Dec;65(6):1118-26.
    PMID: 3119649 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynaferd View Post
    I run nolva 20,20,10,10, and have done so after 2 epi cycles, and 2 SD to pplex bridges. I also used RESTORE, which is no longer available, but was an AI, Test booster, and cortisol control.....I also like a natty booster from day 1 of PCT, like DAA or Testojack.

    I just did a 14 week inject cycle and PCT was clomid 50,50,50,50, nolva 20,20,10,10, and DAA then ERASE @ week 3, tapered down....

    Different strokes for different folks, but I always recovered fine.....
    That's IMO the "ideal" PCT for a cycle, even though I'm not a fan of "AI's" since a lot of people report delayed GYNO from that, probably the SERM is good enough for the cycle without the AI.

    How do you run Nolva? I have tamoxifen citrate but they say it's underdosed? I'm gonna run it 1ml/1ml/.5ml/.5ml that would be 20/20/10/10 right?

    Also, for the guy I think you should try Clomid, combined with Nolva it's a really good way of restoring your natural test production and even increase it a little. Let us know how it goes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostpuppy View Post
    I need some help! Going to run first Ph cycle of Havoc. I have read alot but not enough to feel comfortable starting yet. I have for PCT: AI's Cycle support, DNS's Lean Extreme, Erase, and Novla. Suggestions with structure of cycle and dosages? Thanks!
    make your own thread dont post on others
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    Quote Originally Posted by diegone View Post
    What about cortisol levels? Any cheap supplements to get that under control?
    Thanks
    vitamin c.
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