Best PCT combination?
- 02-01-2011, 01:18 PM
- 02-01-2011, 02:31 PM
* Testosterone Boosters (one product that increase Free Testosterone and Total Testosterone or a stack covering both areas)
* Luteinizing Hormone Releaser
* Cortisol Controller
* Estrogen Antagonists/Aromatase Inhibitor
Clomid and Nolvadex covers your Estrgen Antagonist/Aromatase Inhibitor. Note that one should never use just a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) like Clomid or Nolva for PCT because they do not address all the key issues required during PCT regarding the restarting of the HPTA, including but not limited to high cytokine levels, low testicular L-Carnitine levels, low leptin levels, low levels of certain minerals in the testes, etc. Not only that, they cause depression, and can also cause rebound gyno in a lot of users.
02-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Rosie, I'm finishing up gathering for my pct, is the testosterone recovery stack, some Arimidex and toremifene good enough for pct, or do I need more? ( it was/is a test e cycle at 12 weeks, 400 a week)
02-01-2011, 02:45 PM
02-01-2011, 03:05 PM
i got gyno of 3weeks on dbol, its a lump about the size of a penny under my right nipple, i went to the doctors he sent me to the hospital to see a speicalist at the hospital he had a feel of it and said it should just go with in time, im no doctor but i cant see the lump jst going away. he put a huge needle in me which was the most painful thing ive done in my life and said he will have results for me in 2 weeks. Has any1 ever had theres just go away????? ( or smaller ) thanks,
02-01-2011, 03:10 PM
Anabolic Designs RepresenativePerform and Transformhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/171721-boagrius-logging-pes.html
02-01-2011, 09:03 PM
02-02-2011, 07:47 AM
As far as using a SERM, if your cycle was less than six weeks, then you don't really need to use one, so if you can't get one and your cycle was less than that, you'll be ok.
02-02-2011, 10:13 AM
02-02-2011, 05:36 PM
02-03-2011, 12:13 AM
02-03-2011, 08:01 AM
02-03-2011, 07:58 PM
02-03-2011, 10:21 PM
02-03-2011, 10:29 PM
02-04-2011, 12:35 AM
02-04-2011, 12:53 AM
AI's can do damage to lipid profiles and bone denisty/bone mineral density. Having less estrogen also causes libido loss. SERMs block estrogen where it needs to be blocked so as to avoid most of the bad side effects of lowering estrogen.
PCT is a time when hormones need to be brought back to baseline.
BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
Sustain Alpha is back!
02-04-2011, 01:06 AM
Link?AI's can do damage to bone denisty/bone mineral density.
02-04-2011, 01:15 AM
SERMs selectively activate/occupy certain receptors in certain parts of the body. They don't occupy bone estrogen receptors, they do occupy estrogen receptors in the breast tissue. This is why breast cancer patients don't have brittle bones when mega dosing SERMs.
Why would you suggest someone stack an AI with a SERM if the SERM is already so horribly devastating their body?
BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
Sustain Alpha is back!
02-04-2011, 01:26 AM
For the same reason, you would suggest a SERM. You can never have a "perfect recovery combination." Exogeneous substances blocking and inhibiting natural hormones (such as SERM, AI, Dopamine inhibitors, etc. etc) and manipulating them to bring about desired effects will always have a negative effect to some degree. On one hand you need something powerfull enough to jumpstart your HPTA ,but on the other, you can't use a natural substance (something like DAA) by itself after a superdrol cycle because you won't recover fully.Why would you suggest someone stack an AI with a SERM if the SERM is already so horribly devastating their body?
That's why you must use an AI and a SERM at a moderate dose, and once you feel recovered, let time take care of homeostasis; Because the body will heal itself.
02-04-2011, 01:36 AM
02-04-2011, 05:36 PM
AI only PCT is dangerous because it will mess up your already messed up cholesterol levels even more. Also if tapered off improperly even in conjunction with a SERM, it can lead to long lasting aromatase upregulation (estrogen rebound) which is something I'm facing now.
02-04-2011, 05:49 PM
But even tamoxifene has it's negative effects, even if not significantly dangerous..
Effects of tamoxifen on lipid profile and coagulation parameters in male patients with pubertal gynecomastia.
Novoa FJ, Boronat M, Carrillo A, Tapia M, Diaz-Cremades J, Chirino R.
Department of Endocrinology, Hospital Universitario Insular, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Spain. [email protected]
BACKGROUND/AIM: The estrogenic actions of tamoxifen on lipid profiles and hemostasis have been extensively demonstrated in women. Due to limited experience with this drug in males, it is uncertain whether these effects are also present in men. The aim of our study was to assess the response of blood lipids, lipoproteins, and coagulation parameters in a group of men taking tamoxifen. METHODS: We studied 15 healthy boys with pubertal gynecomastia who were given 10 mg tamoxifen per day. Total testosterone, sex-hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, serum lipids, apolipoprotein B, apolipoprotein A-I, lipoprotein(a), fibrinogen, antithrombin III, von Willebrand factor, and markers of activated coagulation and fibrinolysis were determined at baseline and 1 and 3 months after beginning of the tamoxifen treatment. RESULTS: Total cholesterol and lipoprotein(a) showed moderate but significant decreases from baseline. Low-density lipoprotein and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations as well as triglyceride and apolipoprotein B levels became lower, but these changes were not statistically significant. Among clotting parameters, antithrombin III was reduced, and von Willebrand factor increased significantly. Markers of activated coagulation and fibrinolysis remained unchanged throughout the period of therapy. CONCLUSIONS: The effects of tamoxifen on blood lipids and hemostasis we found in this group of healthy young men were qualitatively similar, but lesser than those previously described in women.
02-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Granted the sides from a SERM are more harmful on women, but the sides are still present in men. And the SERMs that didn't make it past testing phase were likely very damaging to both men and women
02-04-2011, 06:06 PM
Not to mention tamoxifene's er activity can cause tumors to form in the liver.
Bottom line is, what I said above.."Exogeneous substances blocking and inhibiting natural hormones (such as SERM, AI, Dopamine inhibitors, etc. etc) and manipulating them to bring about desired effects will always have a negative effect to some degree"
Also the other bottom line is..Many of you guys don't realize that Estrogen receptors, progesterone receptors, and androgen receptors, are present ALL THROUGHOUT THE BODY, even the liver. You'll even find er's in the prostate. Slash the idea in your brain that an androgen receptor is only present in the HPTA, or that an estrogen receptor is only present in breast tissues because that's what I used to think; and it is wrong
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