How do you know when your PCT is going bad?

[taman6886]

About 5 days ago I stopped a 6 week (and first ever) cycle of Halotest 25, (4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17b-diol). I started at 50mg/day for the first week, then bumped to 75 and ended at 100mg divided into 2 even doses. Did have some issues with back pumps and aching joints (elbows specifically) and cramping in damn near every muscle in my body, from my obliques to my hamstrings, which may have been more of a hydration issue.

Powerlab Nutrition Halotest-25



Anyways, I addressed the back pumps with daily 5mg doses of Taurine, also took milk thistle 3 times daily and my perscription meds kept my BP in check just fine. Also took fish oil/Omega 3,6,9 2-3 times a day during this cycle.

At this point, I am near the end of a deloading week where I have just been doing some cardio and enjoying the hot tub and plan to get back to the iron next week (this was after 9 weeks of going heavy and felt I needed some time to heal up a bit.)

I know that I am likely gonna (justifiably) get taken to task here, but this is what I have been using for my PCT:

Powerlab Nutrition Post-Cycle

which contains Tribulus Terresteris, 6-Bromodione, D-Aspartic-Acid, Eurycoma Longfolia, Creatine Ethyl Ester, L-Arginine, Coleus Forskohlii, Bioprene, Caffeine, Dandelion Root, Zinc, Magnesium Aspertate.

I made a stupid rookie mistake and jumped into this before I had everything properly planned out, I will confess that. Feel free to call me an idiot, but hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

Here is what I have been experiencing: No real depresssion but some irritability, I got into an argument with the wife over something stupid yesterday and I got very verbally ugly and highly aggitated which is out of character for me.

Not that I measured them before hand, but I am pretty sure I have some testicular atrophy going on.

My elbows are still aching, almost like there is small shards of glass embedded in the tendons irritating them, nothing intense, but very persistent.

Sleep disruption: I am waking up every 2-3 hrs, sometimes it is bladder related, other times it is not.

Mild to moderate loss of libido, not that I would turn down the chance, just not actively seeking activity (this is not normal for me.)

Should I give this **** some more time to bounce back or do I need to make a change asap (money is a factor here.) I have strong reservations about taking a SERM as I have read that they are carcinogenic, despite the fact that people recommend them as if they were candy and I do not have a means of access regardless.

How long does it usually take in PCT to get "the twins" pumping out test again?

 

[schwellington]

if you can get your hands on a serm dont cycle


i mean u can use an OTC pct but if that fails its time to use a SERM


and its no worse than the halotest- which is toxic too my friend

 

[taman6886]

Ok, so I did a bit more reading and found that Clomid is considered very safe ( I think it was a link on Primordial Performance Website that stated Nolva was carcinogenic).

Point well taken Schwellington, and as much as I stated call me an idiot for I acted like one, that is not gonna help my current dilemma. Not getting ****y mind ya, but I know that all methylated AAS/DA's are toxic.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Ok, so I did a bit more reading and found that Clomid is considered very safe ( I think it was a link on Primordial Performance Website that stated Nolva was carcinogenic).

Point well taken Schwellington, and as much as I stated call me an idiot for I acted like one, that is not gonna help my current dilemma. Not getting ****y mind ya, but I know that all methylated AAS/DA's are toxic.

I've read that article on primordial and it states specifically that HIGH doses of SERMs should not be used and also recommends you use their Testosterone Replacement Stack and not that bogus crap you're taking. It's really not a bad PCT supplement (that you listed) but it needs to be used in conjunction with a real SERM.

And to answer your thread topic question, you know it's going bad when you rely on Tribulus Terresteris to bring back your test. rofl

 

[IronBusta]

x2 on Primordial Performance TRS... Good stuff from what I hear. I'll be using with a light dose SERM on my next cycle.

~Sounds like you might be irritable because of the trib, it does that to me too... and... Trib and Caffeine are more than likely to blame for the disrupted sleep as well. What time of day are you taking your pct?

~As far as achy joints and loss of libido?... Probably from the 6-Bromo eliminating what little estrogen you had after a halo cycle. Double up on your fish oils and take Ibuprofen for your elbows...

If.... I had to use an OTC PCT only... I would start with PP's TRS and some I3C, though I'm still a strong believer in having some sort of SERM included, even if only a low dose....

Wait and see if any of the experienced users chime in here... But I would definately get blood work done soon to see what your test and estradiol levels are...

 

[EasyEJL]

You can be irritable just because of low testosterone levels in the absence of other androgens. And moderately likely the elbow pains are a combination of low estrogen plus some light tendonitis from relatively fast strength gains over the cycle.

And money isn't an issue. Because not spending the $ to do a decent PCT will mean you lose whatever gains you made, and possibly more, making what you've already spent a total loss.

 

[IronBusta]

And money isn't an issue. Because not spending the $ to do a decent PCT will mean you lose whatever gains you made, and possibly more, making what you've already spent a total loss.

I second that... If you're going to cycle, don't half ass it. You start cutting corners, it's very possible you'll be paying a lot more with your health later on in life. For me, I'd much rather pay a couple hundred to do a quality cycle, than a couple thousand on medical expenses because I ****ed something up... just something to think about.


***Anyone else notice the 306lbs?

 

[taman6886]

I second that... If you're going to cycle, don't half ass it. You start cutting corners, it's very possible you'll be paying a lot more with your health later on in life. For me, I'd much rather pay a couple hundred to do a quality cycle, than a couple thousand on medical expenses because I ****ed something up... just something to think about.



***Anyone else notice the 306lbs?

Yeah, unfortunately, I did half ass this, purely out of ignorance as I started this cycle even before I knew about this forum, let alone the "right way" to do things. Rash and stupid on my part, but an honest stupid at least.

As to the weight, I am presently in my 3rd week of a strip cycle, used to lift seriously, got fat and lazy and started back at it last May. Hung around 285 for a long time while slowly leaning out, let me diet go to hell in late November and shot up to 322 over the holidays. ( I was making nice gains in my lifts so I kind of said "F It"). Have always been a big boy ( and I do not strictly mean fat by that) and have always had a naturally big build. I actually start to look sickly below 215 ( at least I used to, not sure if that is lower or higher now.)

Anyways, I think I got it. Get off my ass, spend the money for a SERM (Which some one was kind enough to give me some guidance on) and do NOT mess with this **** again until I have done my own research, have a precyle, cycle and PCT plan together, run it by people who are more knowledgeable and experienced than me in these matters, and have it ALL in place before I take even the first dose.:bling:

Thanks all.

 

[taman6886]

Gonna go with Toremifene: 120-240/120/60/30 and maybe throw in some Erase for Cortisol Suppression. Any feedback on that?

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Gonna go with Toremifene: 120-240/120/60/30 and maybe throw in some Erase for Cortisol Suppression. Any feedback on that?

Week 1: 120/120/90/90/90/60/60
Week 2: 60 each day
Week 3: 30 to 60 each day (depending on how you're feeling)
Week 4: 30mg each day.

Or you can do the standard 90/60/60/30

 

[taman6886]

Thanks BBG, you are Teh Awesome sir!

 

[jlam2018]

Novedex XT, Gaspari Nutrition - PCT

I would reccommend this PCT for anyone that is not sure whats a good product or not and does not want to waste a lot of money testing out the market, im sure we have all done it one time or another. I used Novedex XT to follow up my first every stack cycle of
"Methyl-v-Test, Vaso Test, Novedex. I was very pleased with the results for the entire cycvle and with the Novedex it really jump starts your bodys natural productiobn of 'test' and then some but all while being a safe boost.

With Novedex XT you wont lose much of anything that you spent time building up I actually lost about 3lbs and dropped bodyfat form 7% to a low 6% staying around 186lbs
starting weight was about 175lbs.....

 

[DYEGYE]

Novedex XT, Gaspari Nutrition - PCT

I would reccommend this PCT for anyone that is not sure whats a good product or not and does not want to waste a lot of money testing out the market, im sure we have all done it one time or another. I used Novedex XT to follow up my first every stack cycle of
"Methyl-v-Test, Vaso Test, Novedex. I was very pleased with the results for the entire cycvle and with the Novedex it really jump starts your bodys natural productiobn of 'test' and then some but all while being a safe boost.

With Novedex XT you wont lose much of anything that you spent time building up I actually lost about 3lbs and dropped bodyfat form 7% to a low 6% staying around 186lbs
starting weight was about 175lbs.....

Whatever you do, DO NOT DO THIS!!! People who use Novedex XT for PCT and have any level of success are simply lucky. If you want to use it on a solo run thats fine, but it is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE PCT PRODUCT!!!

 

[alwaysgaining]

Novedex XT, Gaspari Nutrition - PCT

I would reccommend this PCT for anyone that is not sure whats a good product or not and does not want to waste a lot of money testing out the market, im sure we have all done it one time or another. I used Novedex XT to follow up my first every stack cycle of
"Methyl-v-Test, Vaso Test, Novedex. I was very pleased with the results for the entire cycvle and with the Novedex it really jump starts your bodys natural productiobn of 'test' and then some but all while being a safe boost.

With Novedex XT you wont lose much of anything that you spent time building up I actually lost about 3lbs and dropped bodyfat form 7% to a low 6% staying around 186lbs
starting weight was about 175lbs.....

Lol use this if.u really wana.mess.yer self up u got the serm ur good to go!