PCT for H-drol cycle, Finasteride sufferer

liveagain

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hi,

I'm new on this forum and I'm looking for some advice. Finding guys who know what they're talking about would be very nice from the get-go.

I do not have a strong interest in bodybuilding and I am not familiar with the lingo used or the varieties of PCTs implemented.

I'm nearly ready to do an H-drol cycle followed by Inhibit-E and Blue Up. But I'd like some other opinions on this. My aim is not for muscle gains but to overcome effects caused by Finasteride use (it's been more than 16 months since I stopped). I'm on propeciahelp website and a guy came along not long ago who stated that this cycle worked for him after he had exhibited similar symptoms for over one year:

A)6 weeks on H-drol... 2 bottles, 2 caps in the morning, 1 in the afternoon

B) followed by 4 weeks on Inhibit E....I am currently unsure of the best dosage for this during 4 weeks or if Inhibit E alone is enough... ppl suggest Nolvadex,Clomid, and other products for some PCT regimens

C) concurrent and continuing after the Inhibit E: Blue Up for about 40 days... dosage 3 caps before daily workout.

The guy says he has been recovered now for 3 months--which is more than what can be said for most of the guys suffering the long-term side effects of Finasteride/Propecia on the above-mentioned site can say.

Your time and consideration are much-appreciated. pls refer me to anyone on this forum or others who you, yourself might consult or respect for his knowledge/experience.
 

greaser

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So you're planning on running an Hdrol cycle to "cure" some symptoms that you attribute to Finasteride?

Not to be rude, but that sounds crazy to me.

IF your endocrine system has been harmed in some way by Finasteride or by anything else, you should NOT be messing around with prohormones or designer steroids.

If you are actually trying to self-medicate, then you need to do this properly, not totally half assed with Inhibit-E (ADT) as your PCT and without liver protection or support sups.

Simple question: have you had blood work done? If the answer is NO, then you simply have no way of knowing what is actually going on from a hormonal standpoint. You need at minimum to know what are your blood levels are for testosterone (total, and free) LH, FSH, E2, and DHT.

Finasteride, as I'm sure you know, is a Type 2 5AR inhibitor, which keeps the 5AR enzyme from converting your Test to DHT. Hdrol is already 5AR reduced and will not convert to DHT. (If you want to boost your DHT, then run AndroHard). What it WILL do, is suppress your own natural Test production. It's true that it's not as suppressive as some other compounds, but I have SEEN plenty of blood work that proves that it is actually quite suppressive. So how is shutting down your endogenous testosterone for 6 weeks (and beating up your liver and messing up your lipid profile) supposed to cure you from whatever it is you are suffering from?

Hdrol is a good "first timers" cycle, but you still need the proper support supps and a proper PCT, which means either a SERM and/or a SOLID and COMPLETE over the counter PCT (which some people will disagree with). However, in your situation, I would NOT run a cycle of ANYTHING until you get your hormone levels measured. Most people will get over an Hdrol cycle just fine, but if you are already suffering from a messed up endocrine system which you believe to be Propecia related, then you are taking a larger than average risk for little if any reward.

BTW, I've been on Prop/Fin for about 10 years with no sides, but I know some people very strongly believe they have been permanently damaged.

Also, what is your age?

hi,

I'm new on this forum and I'm looking for some advice. Finding guys who know what they're talking about would be very nice from the get-go.

I do not have a strong interest in bodybuilding and I am not familiar with the lingo used or the varieties of PCTs implemented.

I'm nearly ready to do an H-drol cycle followed by Inhibit-E and Blue Up. But I'd like some other opinions on this. My aim is not for muscle gains but to overcome effects caused by Finasteride use (it's been more than 16 months since I stopped). I'm on propeciahelp website and a guy came along not long ago who stated that this cycle worked for him after he had exhibited similar symptoms for over one year:

A)6 weeks on H-drol... 2 bottles, 2 caps in the morning, 1 in the afternoon

B) followed by 4 weeks on Inhibit E....I am currently unsure of the best dosage for this during 4 weeks or if Inhibit E alone is enough... ppl suggest Nolvadex,Clomid, and other products for some PCT regimens

C) concurrent and continuing after the Inhibit E: Blue Up for about 40 days... dosage 3 caps before daily workout.

The guy says he has been recovered now for 3 months--which is more than what can be said for most of the guys suffering the long-term side effects of Finasteride/Propecia on the above-mentioned site can say.

Your time and consideration are much-appreciated. pls refer me to anyone on this forum or others who you, yourself might consult or respect for his knowledge/experience.
 

liveagain

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Greaser,

I'm 32. This H-drol cycle was used successfully by one member of the propeciahelp forum who had persistent side effects from finasteride use at least one year after he quit FIN. It's been about 7 weeks since he posted his recovery and I've been considering doing the same cycle he did.

There are a number of guys on the forum, like myself, who've simply not recovered from FIN use. We're all looking for ways to make a sustained breakthrough.

As for my bloodwork, I've not had the LH, FSH, E2, DHT tests done yet. I visited one endo who ran a few tests (testosterone, SHBG, and one other) and reported to me that they were within normal range. suggested I see a psychiatrist, so that was a waste of time. Sure, I can see another endo in the future; I most likely will. But, all I see is that people are getting tests done and not necessarily finding any solutions (then trying Nolvadex, clomid, hcg, tons of broccoli, etc. etc.). There are guys on propeciahelp who've not recovered in over 7-8 years.

so, at the moment there's a guy running a cycle on AndroHard (guy from propeciahelp). He's on his PCT and I'm waiting to hear what happens with him. I'm not absolutely determined about what I will do next.
 
roidnoob

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I really wonder what you guys can be suffering from that bad to make you consider taking steroids when you are not even interested in bodybuilding?

maybe if you tell the problem, someone here might be helpful with an (easier) solution?
 
GeekPoop

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hi,

I'm new on this forum and I'm looking for some advice. Finding guys who know what they're talking about would be very nice from the get-go.

I do not have a strong interest in bodybuilding and I am not familiar with the lingo used or the varieties of PCTs implemented.

I'm nearly ready to do an H-drol cycle followed by Inhibit-E and Blue Up. But I'd like some other opinions on this. My aim is not for muscle gains but to overcome effects caused by Finasteride use (it's been more than 16 months since I stopped). I'm on propeciahelp website and a guy came along not long ago who stated that this cycle worked for him after he had exhibited similar symptoms for over one year:

A)6 weeks on H-drol... 2 bottles, 2 caps in the morning, 1 in the afternoon

B) followed by 4 weeks on Inhibit E....I am currently unsure of the best dosage for this during 4 weeks or if Inhibit E alone is enough... ppl suggest Nolvadex,Clomid, and other products for some PCT regimens

C) concurrent and continuing after the Inhibit E: Blue Up for about 40 days... dosage 3 caps before daily workout.

The guy says he has been recovered now for 3 months--which is more than what can be said for most of the guys suffering the long-term side effects of Finasteride/Propecia on the above-mentioned site can say.

Your time and consideration are much-appreciated. pls refer me to anyone on this forum or others who you, yourself might consult or respect for his knowledge/experience.
using 1 steroid to counteract the negative effects of a previously used steroid isnt the answer here
 

greaser

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I really wonder what you guys can be suffering from that bad to make you consider taking steroids when you are not even interested in bodybuilding?

maybe if you tell the problem, someone here might be helpful with an (easier) solution?
Agreed.

What symptoms are you suffering from? I've seen posts from other people who mention the propeciahelp board and they usually say they have low libido.

Now, I'm certainly not an endocrinologist, but excluding psychological causes like stress, depression, etc., low libido can be caused by low testosterone, or low FREE testosterone, which can usually be tied to HIGH estrogen or high SHBG.

You should really KNOW the numbers on your blood test. If you don't, call your doc and ask for a copy. "Normal" male T levels go from about 280-800, so anyone within that range will not be flagged as abnormal. HOWEVER, that guideline was arrived at by testing men from 18-90 years old. So 300 might be fine if you're 82, but not if you're 32. So even though your endo said your T levels where normal, you should find out what they are. For a man your age, you should be above 600.

Again, I would really strongly advise against using Hdrol as a "cure" for anything. IF you have low T, then you might want to try to run a non-steroidal T booster. There are a number of such products, but I am a fan of Primordial Performance. I would run the full Testosterone Recovery Stack, and Testosterone Conversion Factor-1. Go to their website and read about the products -- click the "science tab" for each product and read. It'll take some time, but do it.

As far as steroids go, if anything I'd run Formestane, which is a steroidal aromatase inhibitor. It will knock your estrogen levels down, but again, if that's not your problem, it won't help anything. You should still run the TRS and TCF-1 or a SERM even if you just run Formestane.
 

Jack51

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It is crazy

Greaser,

I agree that this sounds crazy. I am on the propeciahelp forum as a sufferer as well, and I can tell you that something like this would have been unthinkable before reading the poster's recovery on that forum.

I don't think the idea is to boost testosterone from the cycle; I think (and this is only my opinion) that perhaps it was the suppression of the system followed by a reboot without the propecia interference that got the original poster on propeciahelp fixed. If we were normal before, then maybe our bodies can still start up normally? I don't know, but this situation seemed pretty hopeless before reading that poster's recovery.

I'm no bodybuilder, but I lift 5 days a week and run at least about a mile a day. I've been to my doctor a few times as well as an Endo a few weeks ago for tests, and I'll be seeing him again in a few weeks.

Anyway, the poster's cycle was 6 weeks of H-drol 50/75/75/75/75/75 followed by a PCT of Inhibit E 3/2/2/1 and Blue Up 3 times a day before workouts for 40 days. He used Hawthorn and Milk Thistle, and if I do this cycle I would preload for two weeks beforehand.

Do anyone have any thoughts on this cycle? I realize there is no SERM, and I'm still wrestling with getting some Nolva. The reasons I'm not sure about it are (1) I'd like to do this cycle the way the original propecia sufferer did (2) Because of my job I'd prefer not to risk ordering something like that through the mail (3) I don't want the people I am living with to know that I am doing a cycle, and don't know how discreet the packaging would be. I've messaged with some people on other forums about their H-drol cycles and they've recovered with OTC PCTs, although I appreciate it isn't guaranteed.

I know this sounds crazy (it does to me) but I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

Jack
 

deadaim

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If you ahve suffered from an anti-androgen why the **** would you supress yourself further...

I would run some nolva and try and bring back up my natural HPTA. and wtf your test levels were normal , why are you tripping?
 

greaser

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Well what symptoms are you suffering from? Is it low libido? It might be that just running a SERM could help if your HTPA is somehow suppressed, but I'm not sure what symptoms you and the OP are suffering from. I have heard of people attributing gyno and low libido or ED to Propecia, all of which could be due to very high estrogen levels.

As to the practicality of ordering a SERM: "reseach chemicals" are legal, it's just that they are supposed to be used for research. You could also just ask your endo for a prescription, but he will probably flip his lid when you tell him what you're thinking of doing. Anyway, I have only ordered from 1 research company, and as I recall the packaging was generic. It's not going to have a label that says "STEROID RECOVERY STACK ENCLOSED!" or anything like that. Your roommates will have no idea.

Even if you don't run a SERM for PCT, it's a good idea to have some Nolva on hand just in case you experience gyno symptoms. The odds of that are slim with Hdrol, but if you are already having HTPA problems you might be more susceptible than the typical user.

I assume you are also aware that Hdrol is a methylated compond and is liver toxic. That's why you take milk thistle. It's also very important that you don't drink or take tylenol while on cycle for this reason. Keep taking the milk thistle throughout PCT because it takes a while for your liver to recover.

Again, I really think just copying what 1 guy on the propeciahelp board did is rather reckless, but you seem committed to trying it. I would just urge you to consider a better PCT. For OTC, I would recommend this: As far as SERMs go, get Nolva/tamoxifen. You might want to consider running it with Dermacrine or something which will give you a nice testosterone base to keep your libido up while the Hdrol suppresses your natural T levels.

Greaser,

I agree that this sounds crazy. I am on the propeciahelp forum as a sufferer as well, and I can tell you that something like this would have been unthinkable before reading the poster's recovery on that forum.

I don't think the idea is to boost testosterone from the cycle; I think (and this is only my opinion) that perhaps it was the suppression of the system followed by a reboot without the propecia interference that got the original poster on propeciahelp fixed. If we were normal before, then maybe our bodies can still start up normally? I don't know, but this situation seemed pretty hopeless before reading that poster's recovery.

I'm no bodybuilder, but I lift 5 days a week and run at least about a mile a day. I've been to my doctor a few times as well as an Endo a few weeks ago for tests, and I'll be seeing him again in a few weeks.

Anyway, the poster's cycle was 6 weeks of H-drol 50/75/75/75/75/75 followed by a PCT of Inhibit E 3/2/2/1 and Blue Up 3 times a day before workouts for 40 days. He used Hawthorn and Milk Thistle, and if I do this cycle I would preload for two weeks beforehand.

Do anyone have any thoughts on this cycle? I realize there is no SERM, and I'm still wrestling with getting some Nolva. The reasons I'm not sure about it are (1) I'd like to do this cycle the way the original propecia sufferer did (2) Because of my job I'd prefer not to risk ordering something like that through the mail (3) I don't want the people I am living with to know that I am doing a cycle, and don't know how discreet the packaging would be. I've messaged with some people on other forums about their H-drol cycles and they've recovered with OTC PCTs, although I appreciate it isn't guaranteed.

I know this sounds crazy (it does to me) but I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

Jack
 

Jack51

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Greaser,

Sides for me are low libido, ED, smaller testicles, no spontaneous or nocturnal erections. No gyno, so I'm guessing I'm not predisposed to it, although you're right about having the nolva handy, of course. As for drinking I really haven't been lately anyway, in part due to the sides, and I wouldn't risk it while on cycle. A lot of guys at the other site have been on nolva/clomid regimens with their Endos and nothing seems to have come of it.

You're definitely correct when you suggest that this is reckless, I've been saying that to myself, and I really appreciate you giving me advice. I'm gonna talk to my Endo about this, just to see what he says. Obviously he'll say not to do it, but I'm interested to see if there is any reasonable basis for thinking this could work.

In a similar vein, somewhere (I forget where) in my research about H-drol I read a forum post about someone not getting back to normal after a cycle and doing something similar; another cycle followed by a proper PCT. He claims he was back to normal in a week. Maybe there's something to it.

Thanks for your advice, it has been helpful and I appreciate it

Jack
 

greaser

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Greaser,

Sides for me are low libido, ED, smaller testicles, no spontaneous or nocturnal erections. No gyno, so I'm guessing I'm not predisposed to it, although you're right about having the nolva handy, of course. As for drinking I really haven't been lately anyway, in part due to the sides, and I wouldn't risk it while on cycle. A lot of guys at the other site have been on nolva/clomid regimens with their Endos and nothing seems to have come of it.

You're definitely correct when you suggest that this is reckless, I've been saying that to myself, and I really appreciate you giving me advice. I'm gonna talk to my Endo about this, just to see what he says. Obviously he'll say not to do it, but I'm interested to see if there is any reasonable basis for thinking this could work.

In a similar vein, somewhere (I forget where) in my research about H-drol I read a forum post about someone not getting back to normal after a cycle and doing something similar; another cycle followed by a proper PCT. He claims he was back to normal in a week. Maybe there's something to it.

Thanks for your advice, it has been helpful and I appreciate it

Jack
You're welcome. I really hope this works for you. Be sure to post here and let us know.
 

liveagain

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I don't know why, but my last post did not post.

My sides are similar to Jack51, which are similar to many other users of the propeciahelp web forum:

1) permanently shrunken penis and testicles (and presumably prostate)
2) lack of urgency to urinate
3) poor sleep (it has been VERY bad)
4) dry skin, perhaps drier joints, dry eyes
5) water retention and fat deposits (I've never been over 9% body fat in my estimation
6) lack of pleasure, lack of fuzzy, friendly, social feelings
7) slow-growing facial hair, loss of body hair
8) lack of mental focus, poor short-term memory
9) despression resulting from lack of pleasure and loss of function

I am not yet doing the cycle. I don't understand the pre-cycle yet or whether I should do MORE for a H-drol PCT than just Blue Up and Inhibit E.

I'm waiting to hear from some of the other users on the propeciahelp web forum, to get my exercise routine straight, and to know what to order.

I am not sure what an endo can help me decide or recommend. I've been to one, but that was the usual result: "see a psychiatrist" and "things like clomid are considered fringe drugs." If any of you have further pre-cycle recommendations and PCT for H-drol AND if any of you live near Pittsburgh and can recommend an endo, please do.
 

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