So I'm not going with a SERM-heres' why.

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  1. So I'm not going with a SERM-heres' why.


    when I was a teenager I had puffy nipples. I had surgery at around 15 years old. The nipples weren't sensitive, but they were embarrassing to me when I would take my shirt off at the beach, after sports practice etc. I feel i shouldn't have an issue with gyno reoccurrence after my cycle of Turinabol. The only other issue I may have due to estrogen is water weight, etc.

    That said, the only other reason for a SERM is to restart HPTA. My TB dosing was 60/75/90/90/90/90. I don't feel shutdown. Testes is up and running and no shrinkage has occurred. In fact, I may have had low Test before the cycle due to alot of drinking.

    I am going to use PCS or Recycle plus a Cortisol Control like Reduce XT or Lean Extreme plus Activate Extreme. This is experimental on my part and will post results.


  2. Well when u never recover cuz u didn't do a proper pct don't come crying. A pct is just as important as the cycle itself unless you wanna be on trt for life at 21
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  3. dont "feel" shutdown... nice man.

    if you can get a serm use it, otc is fine for some stuff tho
    Serious Nutrition Solutions

  4. shutdown starts at your pituitary, not your testicles. just because you have balls doesn't mean your not shut down.


    I've been on testosterone replacement therapy for 1 year. I have huge balls. I'm also very very shut down. And guess what else, I dont feel shutdown!
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    shutdown starts at your pituitary, not your testicles. just because you have balls doesn't mean your not shut down.


    I've been on testosterone replacement therapy for 1 year. I have huge balls. I'm also very very shut down. And guess what else, I dont feel shutdown!
    Couldn't of said it better myself!!! Why does everyone want to skip out on a 50 dollar purchase that will most likely help keep your gains and not to mention your nuts. Everytime you think about skipping your PCT think about how horrible it would be to bring some chick home and then try to explain why u can get a hard one!!! Not to mention how much it could effect your marriage or relationship. Just my .02 cents

  6. And how old are u monster? U look young in the pic... just wondering why u need HRT at your age?

  7. If you have puppy nipples, I would get those checked out. Canine nipplitis is a rare, but potentially life-threatening condition.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    when I was a teenager I had puppy nipples. I had surgery at around 15 years old. The nipples weren't sensitive, but they were embarrassing to me when I would take my shirt off at the beach, after sports practice etc. I feel i shouldn't have an issue with gyno reoccurrence after my cycle of Turinabol. The only other issue I may have due to estrogen is water weight, etc.

    That said, the only other reason for a SERM is to restart HPTA. My TB dosing was 60/75/90/90/90/90. I don't feel shutdown. Testes is up and running and no shrinkage has occurred. In fact, I may have had low Test before the cycle due to alot of drinking.

    I am going to use PCS or Recycle plus a Cortisol Control like Reduce XT or Lean Extreme plus Activate Extreme. This is experimental on my part and will post results.
    Well, Nolva can be used if gyno flares up, so I think it would be prudent for you to have some on hand, just in case. Whether you run it as part of your PCT is another matter.

    As far as OTC stuff goes, I really like the full TRS. If you don't want to spend that much, I'd at least run Sustain Alpha and TCF-1. Start the 12 day TCF dose on the last 6 days of your cycle and the 1st 6 days of your PCT. Wait 12 days, then run the 2nd half of the bottle. For Sustain Alpha, run it 5 days on, 2 days off until it's gone.

  9. yes, at the pituitary. I stand corrected. yes read alot of things and sometimes I mix it around. I wont cry, trust me. I dont have puffy nipples, I had them as a teenager.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    yes, at the pituitary. I stand corrected. yes read alot of things and sometimes I mix it around. I wont cry, trust me. I dont have puffy nipples, I had them as a teenager.
    Puffy nipples will be the least of your worries. Gyno is not that big of a damn issue, if you come down with it...pick up a second job for 6-8 months and get em cut out.

    Now imagine your Test production being stuck at half....

  11. Quote Originally Posted by h2bek97 View Post
    And how old are u monster? U look young in the pic... just wondering why u need HRT at your age?
    21. Varicocele, and low LH. I tried clomid for 10 weeks...only bumped me up to 550ng/dl and raised my SHBG to 30's. Free-T remained low because of this... It all came crashing back to 300's when I came off the SERM. I just have low genetic levels I guess...

    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
  12. UKStrength
    UKStrength's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    21. Varicocele, and low LH. I tried clomid for 10 weeks...only bumped me up to 550ng/dl and raised my SHBG to 30's. Free-T remained low because of this... It all came crashing back to 300's when I came off the SERM. I just have low genetic levels I guess...

    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
    Glad that's working out for you mate

    To the OP - I'd possibly consider asking your family physician for some bloodwork if you feel your testosterone levels are low. It would also stand you in good stead prior to your cycle (as you'll know what your starting level was).

    I personally didn't respond as well to SERMs as I did to OTC methods in terms of recovery. However I do advocate HCG on-cycle with longer or very suppressive cycles. SERMs are a personal choice, users should research carefully as they come with their own side effects, sometimes worse than the original compound on-cycle!

  13. This is a dumb experiment.

    Good Luck!

  14. Quote Originally Posted by unc21 View Post
    This is a dumb experiment.

    Good Luck!
    nah, I did ergopharm 1ad, 4ad, 19nor in 2003 with no pct or on cycle support. however, I haven't gotten blood work done, so who really knows' what my internals are like.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by SemperFi9999 View Post
    Well when u never recover cuz u didn't do a proper pct don't come crying. A pct is just as important as the cycle itself unless you wanna be on trt for life at 21
    x2.

  16. While Tbol is quite possibly the mildest AAS on the HPTA, SERMs do more than just boost test and prevent gyno. They also improve your lipid profile, which undoubtedly will take a hit from the Tbol.
    But SERMs are so cheap and easy to obtain, there is no reason not to use one for PCT.
    Also, why be stuck with maybe 75% of your normal test levels for weeks after, when you could boost them to 150% + of baseline after coming off?

  17. Why the **** would you even take the risk???? Dude...more then likely your shutdown...you have introduced artificial test into your body which signals your body to STOP producing its own test....like someone said above...this has to be one of the DUMBEST experiments.....but... good luck man...
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  18. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
    Do you run an AI with that combo?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    nah, I did ergopharm 1ad, 4ad, 19nor in 2003 with no pct or on cycle support. however, I haven't gotten blood work done, so who really knows' what my internals are like.
    I guarantee your test levels are ****ed after that..

  20. gyno isnt the only thing you should be woryying about mate with high e2 levels it can affect a whole range of things

  21. Quote Originally Posted by aronaronaron View Post
    gyno isnt the only thing you should be woryying about mate with high e2 levels it can affect a whole range of things
    A SERM wouldn't lower his E2 levels anyway. An AI would.

  22. If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.
    He mentioned in the OP that he had his mammary glands removed at 15.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    He mentioned in the OP that he had his mammary glands removed at 15.
    Even if the gland is removed, unbalanced hormones can result in another occurrence. And to be more thorough, the OP never stated that he had a bilateral mastectomy, but to the contrary, he stated that he had surgery which is open for interpretation. Also, the fat that he would think drinking would lower his Testosterone more so than a cycle can tell you that he is lacking the necessary mental tools to handle a cycle in the first place. Rule of cycling: Post Cycle Therapy must be systematic and executed accordingly. To say, "I don't feel shut down," isn't going to cut it.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    While Tbol is quite possibly the mildest AAS on the HPTA, SERMs do more than just boost test and prevent gyno. They also improve your lipid profile, which undoubtedly will take a hit from the Tbol.
    But SERMs are so cheap and easy to obtain, there is no reason not to use one for PCT.
    Also, why be stuck with maybe 75% of your normal test levels for weeks after, when you could boost them to 150% + of baseline after coming off?
    Just a comment about SERMs improving the lipid profile:

    I've heard this too, and maybe it varies depending on which SERM a person is using, but my triglycerides went through the roof when I ran Nolvadex at 10mgs a day for 4 weeks. My LDL did go down pretty substantially, and my HDL dropped but only to 40 (which is still in the acceptable range) but I was pretty concerned by my triglycerides. After my bloodwork, I googled around and found that Nolva can wreak havoc on your triglyceride levels and so it's not recommended for people with certain medical conditions.

    I'm just throwing that out there for people to be aware of.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.
    OH SNAP!!!!!


    OP, I'd listen to these guys. Don't wait to "feel" something.

  27. so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
    You're not going to find a study about doctors administering steroids followed by different PCT protocol's and gauging hormone levels... Get real man. There is tons of ethics involved that would not allow this kind of research to go through.

    The value of information about SERM's as a PCT comes from the effects of a SERM. For instance, there is TONS of literature supporting nolvadex to significantly increase LH, and T levels and not to mention it's proven affect of not allowing estro to bind to breast tissue.

    That is good enough for me to think "Hey, maybe I should jump on some nolva after a steroid cycle since my LH and T is gonna be low, and estro is gonna be high"

  29. Protocol? You are clearly delusional and should do some research on the human endocrine system with regards to altering ones hormones. Seriously, I am now, more than ever, questioning your astuteness and ability to reason. I will not entertain your fallacy about a SERM NOT helping; any half-witted individual can do a bit of research and find that a SERM WILL help and should be used in conjunction with other ancillaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
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