So I'm not going with a SERM-heres' why. - AnabolicMinds.com

So I'm not going with a SERM-heres' why.

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    So I'm not going with a SERM-heres' why.


    when I was a teenager I had puffy nipples. I had surgery at around 15 years old. The nipples weren't sensitive, but they were embarrassing to me when I would take my shirt off at the beach, after sports practice etc. I feel i shouldn't have an issue with gyno reoccurrence after my cycle of Turinabol. The only other issue I may have due to estrogen is water weight, etc.

    That said, the only other reason for a SERM is to restart HPTA. My TB dosing was 60/75/90/90/90/90. I don't feel shutdown. Testes is up and running and no shrinkage has occurred. In fact, I may have had low Test before the cycle due to alot of drinking.

    I am going to use PCS or Recycle plus a Cortisol Control like Reduce XT or Lean Extreme plus Activate Extreme. This is experimental on my part and will post results.

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    Well when u never recover cuz u didn't do a proper pct don't come crying. A pct is just as important as the cycle itself unless you wanna be on trt for life at 21
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    smart.
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    dont "feel" shutdown... nice man.

    if you can get a serm use it, otc is fine for some stuff tho
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    shutdown starts at your pituitary, not your testicles. just because you have balls doesn't mean your not shut down.


    I've been on testosterone replacement therapy for 1 year. I have huge balls. I'm also very very shut down. And guess what else, I dont feel shutdown!
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    shutdown starts at your pituitary, not your testicles. just because you have balls doesn't mean your not shut down.


    I've been on testosterone replacement therapy for 1 year. I have huge balls. I'm also very very shut down. And guess what else, I dont feel shutdown!
    Couldn't of said it better myself!!! Why does everyone want to skip out on a 50 dollar purchase that will most likely help keep your gains and not to mention your nuts. Everytime you think about skipping your PCT think about how horrible it would be to bring some chick home and then try to explain why u can get a hard one!!! Not to mention how much it could effect your marriage or relationship. Just my .02 cents
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    And how old are u monster? U look young in the pic... just wondering why u need HRT at your age?
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    If you have puppy nipples, I would get those checked out. Canine nipplitis is a rare, but potentially life-threatening condition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    when I was a teenager I had puppy nipples. I had surgery at around 15 years old. The nipples weren't sensitive, but they were embarrassing to me when I would take my shirt off at the beach, after sports practice etc. I feel i shouldn't have an issue with gyno reoccurrence after my cycle of Turinabol. The only other issue I may have due to estrogen is water weight, etc.

    That said, the only other reason for a SERM is to restart HPTA. My TB dosing was 60/75/90/90/90/90. I don't feel shutdown. Testes is up and running and no shrinkage has occurred. In fact, I may have had low Test before the cycle due to alot of drinking.

    I am going to use PCS or Recycle plus a Cortisol Control like Reduce XT or Lean Extreme plus Activate Extreme. This is experimental on my part and will post results.
    Well, Nolva can be used if gyno flares up, so I think it would be prudent for you to have some on hand, just in case. Whether you run it as part of your PCT is another matter.

    As far as OTC stuff goes, I really like the full TRS. If you don't want to spend that much, I'd at least run Sustain Alpha and TCF-1. Start the 12 day TCF dose on the last 6 days of your cycle and the 1st 6 days of your PCT. Wait 12 days, then run the 2nd half of the bottle. For Sustain Alpha, run it 5 days on, 2 days off until it's gone.
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    yes, at the pituitary. I stand corrected. yes read alot of things and sometimes I mix it around. I wont cry, trust me. I dont have puffy nipples, I had them as a teenager.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    yes, at the pituitary. I stand corrected. yes read alot of things and sometimes I mix it around. I wont cry, trust me. I dont have puffy nipples, I had them as a teenager.
    Puffy nipples will be the least of your worries. Gyno is not that big of a damn issue, if you come down with it...pick up a second job for 6-8 months and get em cut out.

    Now imagine your Test production being stuck at half....
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2bek97 View Post
    And how old are u monster? U look young in the pic... just wondering why u need HRT at your age?
    21. Varicocele, and low LH. I tried clomid for 10 weeks...only bumped me up to 550ng/dl and raised my SHBG to 30's. Free-T remained low because of this... It all came crashing back to 300's when I came off the SERM. I just have low genetic levels I guess...

    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    21. Varicocele, and low LH. I tried clomid for 10 weeks...only bumped me up to 550ng/dl and raised my SHBG to 30's. Free-T remained low because of this... It all came crashing back to 300's when I came off the SERM. I just have low genetic levels I guess...

    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
    Glad that's working out for you mate

    To the OP - I'd possibly consider asking your family physician for some bloodwork if you feel your testosterone levels are low. It would also stand you in good stead prior to your cycle (as you'll know what your starting level was).

    I personally didn't respond as well to SERMs as I did to OTC methods in terms of recovery. However I do advocate HCG on-cycle with longer or very suppressive cycles. SERMs are a personal choice, users should research carefully as they come with their own side effects, sometimes worse than the original compound on-cycle!
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    This is a dumb experiment.

    Good Luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by unc21 View Post
    This is a dumb experiment.

    Good Luck!
    nah, I did ergopharm 1ad, 4ad, 19nor in 2003 with no pct or on cycle support. however, I haven't gotten blood work done, so who really knows' what my internals are like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemperFi9999 View Post
    Well when u never recover cuz u didn't do a proper pct don't come crying. A pct is just as important as the cycle itself unless you wanna be on trt for life at 21
    x2.
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    While Tbol is quite possibly the mildest AAS on the HPTA, SERMs do more than just boost test and prevent gyno. They also improve your lipid profile, which undoubtedly will take a hit from the Tbol.
    But SERMs are so cheap and easy to obtain, there is no reason not to use one for PCT.
    Also, why be stuck with maybe 75% of your normal test levels for weeks after, when you could boost them to 150% + of baseline after coming off?
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    Why the **** would you even take the risk???? Dude...more then likely your shutdown...you have introduced artificial test into your body which signals your body to STOP producing its own test....like someone said above...this has to be one of the DUMBEST experiments.....but... good luck man...
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Now I'm on HCG+TRT and feel amazing.
    Do you run an AI with that combo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    nah, I did ergopharm 1ad, 4ad, 19nor in 2003 with no pct or on cycle support. however, I haven't gotten blood work done, so who really knows' what my internals are like.
    I guarantee your test levels are ****ed after that..
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    gyno isnt the only thing you should be woryying about mate with high e2 levels it can affect a whole range of things
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    Quote Originally Posted by aronaronaron View Post
    gyno isnt the only thing you should be woryying about mate with high e2 levels it can affect a whole range of things
    A SERM wouldn't lower his E2 levels anyway. An AI would.
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    If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.
    He mentioned in the OP that he had his mammary glands removed at 15.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    He mentioned in the OP that he had his mammary glands removed at 15.
    Even if the gland is removed, unbalanced hormones can result in another occurrence. And to be more thorough, the OP never stated that he had a bilateral mastectomy, but to the contrary, he stated that he had surgery which is open for interpretation. Also, the fat that he would think drinking would lower his Testosterone more so than a cycle can tell you that he is lacking the necessary mental tools to handle a cycle in the first place. Rule of cycling: Post Cycle Therapy must be systematic and executed accordingly. To say, "I don't feel shut down," isn't going to cut it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    While Tbol is quite possibly the mildest AAS on the HPTA, SERMs do more than just boost test and prevent gyno. They also improve your lipid profile, which undoubtedly will take a hit from the Tbol.
    But SERMs are so cheap and easy to obtain, there is no reason not to use one for PCT.
    Also, why be stuck with maybe 75% of your normal test levels for weeks after, when you could boost them to 150% + of baseline after coming off?
    Just a comment about SERMs improving the lipid profile:

    I've heard this too, and maybe it varies depending on which SERM a person is using, but my triglycerides went through the roof when I ran Nolvadex at 10mgs a day for 4 weeks. My LDL did go down pretty substantially, and my HDL dropped but only to 40 (which is still in the acceptable range) but I was pretty concerned by my triglycerides. After my bloodwork, I googled around and found that Nolva can wreak havoc on your triglyceride levels and so it's not recommended for people with certain medical conditions.

    I'm just throwing that out there for people to be aware of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    If you had puffy nipples as a kid, just wait until your body is in a disastrous predicament because you failed to re-start and do a proper PCT. It is a self-imposed kick in the nuts, pun not intended. I am somewhat hesitate to believe that someone would openly show their intelligence, or lack thereof on this subject. And the part about not, "feeling shutdown," only solidifies the latter part.
    OH SNAP!!!!!


    OP, I'd listen to these guys. Don't wait to "feel" something.
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    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
    You're not going to find a study about doctors administering steroids followed by different PCT protocol's and gauging hormone levels... Get real man. There is tons of ethics involved that would not allow this kind of research to go through.

    The value of information about SERM's as a PCT comes from the effects of a SERM. For instance, there is TONS of literature supporting nolvadex to significantly increase LH, and T levels and not to mention it's proven affect of not allowing estro to bind to breast tissue.

    That is good enough for me to think "Hey, maybe I should jump on some nolva after a steroid cycle since my LH and T is gonna be low, and estro is gonna be high"
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    Protocol? You are clearly delusional and should do some research on the human endocrine system with regards to altering ones hormones. Seriously, I am now, more than ever, questioning your astuteness and ability to reason. I will not entertain your fallacy about a SERM NOT helping; any half-witted individual can do a bit of research and find that a SERM WILL help and should be used in conjunction with other ancillaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorp69 View Post
    so by admitting that I'm not going to run a SERM b/c of this or that is questioning my intelligence. What about taking AAS, DS, PH? Is that intelligent on our part? A proper pct doen't guarantee anything. Is only shows someone is following protocol. Its a fact alcohol lowers testosterone. I never said it would lower it more than a cycle. the only advantage is on cycle you increase exogenous testosterone. I like to see studies on how a SERM helps pct.
    That is possibly the dumbest thing I have read today... You decreased my IQ level about 50 points while reading. OP, you take a hardcore cycle, and dont use a SERM for PCT, I dare you. When you get double D's and you cant get an erection and you lose mass and strength, dont post any complaints on this site... Everyone here is telling you to use a SERM, there a numerous studies that prove that SERMs raise LH/FSH levels which in turn raises T levels, thus stimulating the HPTA...
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    you all have made valid points. I have done my research here about pct the correct ways to go about it. I have also read about other's not doing a proper pct(not even a pct at all) and wonder why even take a steriod. My TB cycle ended 6/10/2010 and am not into my third third day of pct. I will start a new thread on the aftermath.
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    OP, don't worry man. They all flame on here. Trust me. I did sd as my very first cycle at 45mg Ed for 25 days, and I kept my pct OTC as well. And I'm completely fine. Had blood words dor and I'm a okay. Everyones different. That's why I figure if the pct I'm doing is working, why mix it up and risk it with using a "research chemical" sometimes sides from them are worse than the sides from te ph. Everyones different. Do what works for you, that's what I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calikid09 View Post
    Everyones different. Do what works for you, that's what I do.
    Relax, you didn't know what worked for you. Nobody knows what works for them until they try. You gambled with your health and it looks like you won. Don't all of the sudden think what you did is ok to do because you came out fine and start telling other people.

    You did not do the right thing. You lucked out. I wouldn't take advice from a person with this track record.
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    Quit using the "everyone is different" no we arent, were like 99% the same. Were not all unique, were the same species. were all fcking humans. This saying gets over used so much, kind of when someone cant back up what theyre trying to say.

    brb injecting 10g of tren ace cuz im "different"

    dont go preaching your otc high dosed SD bs on here. SD lands more people in trouble more than almost any current OTC DS
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    Nobodies bodies are the same. At all. And it might be "overdosed" but for all the hype you guys put behind it, I got only one side effect, lethargy. Nothing like you guys said it would be. So calm down with your roid rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calikid09 View Post
    Nobodies bodies are the same. At all. And it might be "overdosed" but for all the hype you guys put behind it, I got only one side effect, lethargy. Nothing like you guys said it would be. So calm down with your roid rant.
    I like how you say "risk it" with a reserach chemical, yet you dosed 45mg sd and "risked it" with an otc pct...
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    And choc, I'm aware I'm lucky. Bit he said he has other ph experience and OTC worked for him. I was just trying to take away the negativity he had been receiving. That's all.
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    And I'm fine! And my pct worked for me. OTC. And I'm fine!! So in the end I'm fine! And I know what works!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calikid09 View Post
    And choc, I'm aware I'm lucky. Bit he said he has other ph experience and OTC worked for him. I was just trying to take away the negativity he had been receiving. That's all.
    It's not the OTC products that are working lol. It was just your body reaching homeostasis on it's own.
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