What To Use On A SD Cycle?

crowbar46

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I'll be starting my first SD cycle in about 6 weeks and was looking for insight on what to use to minimize gyno related issues while on cycle.

I'm not particularly suseptible to gyno, but with superdrol--even though it's said not to aromitize--I want to be cautious as I've heard others mention gyno in connection to its use.

I've also read that some people feel that Nolva is NOT the best choice on cycle, as it seems to actually increase the gyno.

So, what's the prefered SERM (or other compound) to prevent gyno problems while on a SD cycle:

1) A SD cycle alone or with another non-aromitizing compound e.g., epi, halo, tren, etc)?

2) A SD cycle using an additional aromitizing compound (P-plex, etc.)?


Thanks,

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lennoxchi

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I'll be starting my first SD cycle in about 6 weeks and was looking for insight on what to use to minimize gyno related issues while on cycle.

I'm not particularly suseptible to gyno, but with superdrol--even though it's said not to aromitize--I want to be cautious as I've heard others mention gyno in connection to its use.

I've also read that some people feel that Nolva is NOT the best choice on cycle, as it seems to actually increase the gyno.

So, what's the prefered SERM (or other compound) to prevent gyno problems while on a SD cycle:

1) A SD cycle alone or with another non-aromitizing compound e.g., epi, halo, tren, etc)?

2) A SD cycle using an additional aromitizing compound (P-plex, etc.)?


Thanks,

Crowbar
i've never heard of nolva creating a problem with sd for protection against gyno. keep in mind you have a lot of people out there who don't know what the hell they're doing and blame their mistakes on things like SERM's and AI's. tren coumpound which normally produce progestin induced gyno (at times) has the potential to get worse with nolva use. but lets just for a moment say they're right, you could use clomid or torm. as far as stacking it with something else non-aromitizing, that's silly. that's like taking cvs and walgreens asprin to get rid of a headache......
 

crowbar46

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Lennoxchi: thanks for the response. By stacking with something non-aromitizing, I mean, for example, using SD for 3 weeks to kickstart a 6 week cycle of 1-T Tren, or Epi, perhaps in order to add some punch to the cycle for mass.

Thanks,

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UGHQTempus

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You shouldn't have any gyno issues ON cycle. SD is non-aromatizing so no E there and its suppressive enough that your natty test levels will drop - no E there either.

Rebound issues post cycle - sure. This is a pretty well known PCT issue and you can search and get all the data. Inverse taper the serm with a good AI. Its not rocket science. Control the E in your system (using a serm to block the gyno effects at the receptor level) while natty test is low and recovering. As things are recovering you can use an AI to take care of E levels to get a better T:E going. Just don't smash all your E at once - gotta have some.

You said this is your first SD cycle. Why do you feel the need to stack it? Sd is pretty potent. How old are you and what is your cycle experience? What is your bf%.

Also, the Nolva study suggesting it was bad on cycle was about making men have long term issues (ie. making them more prone to getting gyno later on.)
 

crowbar46

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UGHQTempus: thanks for the response.

I'm 48 y.o., 6' 275 lbs. I've been training for 25+ years. I've done 1-T, Epi, Halo, "tren", as far as PH/DS go. I also used to use AAS, but due to increasing legal issues decided to give that up a number of years back and go with DS.

When using AAS, honestly, I just used a little HcG,an AI on cycle tapering toward the end--and perhaps a little post cycle--followed by Clomid for ~4 weeks(and tapering down).

I don't see the point in using an AI and a SERM post cycle (at least not for long). Post cycle your E will rise because the body senses low androgen levels and your HPTA is supressed, thus you are incapable of producing T in order to bring the body back into homeostasis. As you continue to use the Clomid to antagonize E at the hypothalamus, this will inhibit the negative feedback loop and T will rise; as T rises E production should drop and be cleared from the system until a state of homestasis is reached.

So, if T levels are recovering through the course of the 4 weeks of Clomid, and E is dropping in response, what's the point in the AI later in the cycle (or maybe even at all)--especially if the Clomid is antagonizing the receptors in the hypothalamus and breast?

Is it just that E will not have returned to baseline after 4 weeks? In this case I could see switching to an AI (and tapering off it) after 4 weeks of Clomid use if one were concerned about potential side effects; but that's the only advantage I see.

Thanks for any response,

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A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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UGHQTempus: thanks for the response.

I'm 48 y.o., 6' 275 lbs. I've been training for 25+ years. I've done 1-T, Epi, Halo, "tren", as far as PH/DS go. I also used to use AAS, but due to increasing legal issues decided to give that up a number of years back and go with DS.

When using AAS, honestly, I just used a little HcG,an AI on cycle tapering toward the end--and perhaps a little post cycle--followed by Clomid for ~4 weeks(and tapering down).

I don't see the point in using an AI and a SERM post cycle (at least not for long). Post cycle your E will rise because the body senses low androgen levels and your HPTA is supressed, thus you are incapable of producing T in order to bring the body back into homeostasis. As you continue to use the Clomid to antagonize E at the hypothalamus, this will inhibit the negative feedback loop and T will rise; as T rises E production should drop and be cleared from the system until a state of homestasis is reached.

So, if T levels are recovering through the course of the 4 weeks of Clomid, and E is dropping in response, what's the point in the AI later in the cycle (or maybe even at all)--especially if the Clomid is antagonizing the receptors in the hypothalamus and breast?

Is it just that E will not have returned to baseline after 4 weeks? In this case I could see switching to an AI (and tapering off it) after 4 weeks of Clomid use if one were concerned about potential side effects; but that's the only advantage I see.

Thanks for any response,

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Because when you end the SERM there can be a big rebound of estro so a AI taper will help with that. I also see not need to stack the 3 weeks of SD is enough.
 

crowbar46

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Pembroke3355; thanks for the response. Stacking the SD was only an option; but, I do respond well to anabolics and seem to experience very manageable sides even on cycles of AAS that I'm sure were much stronger than SD alone.

AS far as the "estrogen rebound" effect, this is only going to happen if you've supressed E too low to begin with--which, I believe, is unlikely with only a SERM, especially Clomid. Also, adding in an AI would only serve to exacerbate (or at most, delay) the problem: when you withdraw the AI you'll still be faced with "estrogen rebound". If you say, "well, I'm talking about tapering the AI so as to avoid estrogen rebound", I say why not just taper the SERM and forget about the AI? AI's tend to cause a lot more problems than what people realize I think.

At any rate, all this "estrogen rebound" never seemed to be a real problem with myself or guys I knew who were using AAS, as long as they didn't go overboard with an AI on cycle and didn't carry it on forever afterwards.

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A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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Pembroke3355; thanks for the response. Stacking the SD was only an option; but, I do respond well to anabolics and seem to experience very manageable sides even on cycles of AAS that I'm sure were much stronger than SD alone.

AS far as the "estrogen rebound" effect, this is only going to happen if you've supressed E too low to begin with--which, I believe, is unlikely with only a SERM, especially Clomid. Also, adding in an AI would only serve to exacerbate (or at most, delay) the problem: when you withdraw the AI you'll still be faced with "estrogen rebound". If you say, "well, I'm talking about tapering the AI so as to avoid estrogen rebound", I say why not just taper the SERM and forget about the AI? AI's tend to cause a lot more problems than what people realize I think.

At any rate, all this "estrogen rebound" never seemed to be a real problem with myself or guys I knew who were using AAS, as long as they didn't go overboard with an AI on cycle and didn't carry it on forever afterwards.

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Good luck bro.:)
 

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