Quit taking 3 4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran in PCT to increase your testosterone

**nattydisaster** · 09-30-2009, 02:01 PM

If I see another thread regarding this method I am going to

So many PCT products contain this stuff. I am not going after those products. I am just saying, the compound during PCT is dumb.

Ok carry on.

**nattydisaster** · 09-30-2009, 02:09 PM

I probably put this in the wrong section. Oh well I'm a newb

**ShakesAllDay** · 09-30-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by nattydisaster

I am just saying, the compound during PCT is dumb.

Are you just going to leave it at that?

**nattydisaster** · 09-30-2009, 02:19 PM

SHBG also binds E2. So, by lowering SHBG, you are also increasing E2. The amount of estrogen increased from a lowering of SHBG in men has a greater effect than the T released. Not that big of a deal if you are "on cycle", but a bad idea if you are in PCT. In PCT you actually want to increase your SHBG.

**crazyfool405** · 09-30-2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by nattydisaster

SHBG also binds E2. So, by lowering SHBG, you are also increasing E2. The amount of estrogen increased from a lowering of SHBG in men has a greater effect than the T released. Not that big of a deal if you are "on cycle", but a bad idea if you are in PCT. In PCT you actually want to increase your SHBG.

gotta say that i agree!

i wouldnt run it without an AI anyway, on top of that using it in the begining of PCT is useless... towards the end will be fine IMO (after 4-6 weeks on SERMs, then add it)

**ShakesAllDay** · 09-30-2009, 04:54 PM

Why take it at all then? If the rise in E correlates to less natural test production than what is gained by the increase in free test. I think I said that right.

**crazyfool405** · 09-30-2009, 05:21 PM

the rise in E2 can be counted by an AI thus still keeping the ratio still favorable for testosterone

**BBB** · 09-30-2009, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by nattydisaster

SHBG also binds E2. So, by lowering SHBG, you are also increasing E2. The amount of estrogen increased from a lowering of SHBG in men has a greater effect than the T released. Not that big of a deal if you are "on cycle", but a bad idea if you are in PCT. In PCT you actually want to increase your SHBG.

I think you may be a bit confused. By lowering SHBG your total testosterone levels may or may not change but your free test should increase. Free test is what were looking for.

Stinging Nettle is typically used to balance hormones, so it's an excellent herb to take along with other natural testosterone boosters. I've never heard of or experienced any estrogenic side effects with this supplement and I have taken it off and on for years. As a matter of fact, it works well to prevent these types of problems.

**GoHardOrGoHme** · 09-30-2009, 05:42 PM

ineteresting thread.....

Natty got's a good point. SHBG does bind to both E2 nd T so during a PCT where i believe the fear is in E2 rebound, this could be a somewhat counter productive product if not taken with a good AI.

However this brings upa secondary question in my mind. Should the nettle root extract be taken always with an AI to increase the effictiveness of this product?

**nattydisaster** · 10-01-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by BBB

I think you may be a bit confused. By lowering SHBG your total testosterone levels may or may not change but your free test should increase. Free test is what were looking for.

Stinging Nettle is typically used to balance hormones, so it's an excellent herb to take along with other natural testosterone boosters. I've never heard of or experienced any estrogenic side effects with this supplement and I have taken it off and on for years. As a matter of fact, it works well to prevent these types of problems.

I know this. I sort of thought it was "implied". The extract of stinging nettle that I listed is used to lower SHBG or inhibit binding to SHBG. Either way, they are both bad for PCT.

**nattydisaster** · 10-01-2009, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme

ineteresting thread.....

Natty got's a good point. SHBG does bind to both E2 nd T so during a PCT where i believe the fear is in E2 rebound, this could be a somewhat counter productive product if not taken with a good AI.

However this brings upa secondary question in my mind. Should the nettle root extract be taken always with an AI to increase the effictiveness of this product?

I would, yes. Even if it was a small dose of an AI. But the catch is, do we really know how long nettle root causes the flux in SHBG? You could think it's one day and it may not be for 7 days you know?

The lowering of SHBG by androgens is ONE of the reasons people probably end up getting gyno on compounds that do not aromatize.

**machinehead** · 10-01-2009, 12:17 PM

dinoiii tested this on people in PCT and their bloodwork came unaffected by divanil. He was assuming the same thing but real life is different. Of course personal experiences can vary a lot.

**nattydisaster** · 10-02-2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by machinehead

dinoiii tested this on people in PCT and their bloodwork came unaffected by divanil. He was assuming the same thing but real life is different. Of course personal experiences can vary a lot.

Yea. Never believe anything you read from personal experiences on the forums. Medical studies > forum personal experience.

**EasyEJL** · 10-02-2009, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by nattydisaster

Yea. Never believe anything you read from personal experiences on the forums. Medical studies > forum personal experience.

Heretic. You could be burned at the stake for saying that

**GoHardOrGoHme** · 10-02-2009, 02:05 PM

hmm

Test booster + divanil + AI = good natty stack

Actually that seems to be what anabolic inn. did with testopro. They added a pretty well known test booster, testofen then added the divanil to unbind the bound test and indole-3-carbinol to prevent aromatization of the test to estrogen.

The quercetin i dont know what it does besides being a potent anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory and the bioprene helps increase the efficacy of all of the above....looks nice.

**machinehead** · 10-02-2009, 02:10 PM

Testofen does not boost test directly, it binds to receptors just like test does.

In addition to Testosterone support, it also acts like Testosterone by binding to the Testosterone receptor sites and creating Testosterone like activity.

http://www.testofen.com/

I3C is not an AI but an enzyme modulator that pushes the estrogens downstream to other estrogens.

Anyway, a strong AI will likely push SHBG down way more than divanil but not for everyone.

**GoHardOrGoHme** · 10-02-2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by machinehead

Testofen does not boost test directly, it binds to receptors just like test does.

http://www.testofen.com/

I3C is not an AI but an enzyme modulator that pushes the estrogens downstream to other estrogens.

Anyway, a strong AI will likely push SHBG down way more than divanil but not for everyone.

A-HA! this i did not know thanks you for the correction!

**Liftingstud** · 10-03-2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by nattydisaster

The lowering of SHBG by androgens is ONE of the reasons people probably end up getting gyno on compounds that do not aromatize.

this is very correct and a good point people tend to forget. They think just bc it doesn't aromatize u can't get gyno.

**chainsaw** · 10-15-2009, 12:40 PM

What about it while on cycle to lower SHBG which has an effect on androgen recepetors?

Quit taking 3 4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran in PCT to increase your testosterone

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