SERM vs AI's...Teach me please!

[Cantell]

Ok, so Im having trouble understanding the difference in the 2. I just used Nolvadex aka (serm) for pct. But, some keep mentioning AI's.

Exaclty what is the difference, and there benifits?

Sorry for such a newb question! I just wanna learn.

Thanks

 

[Broly]

Though I'm by no means an expert in that mater, the diference between AI's and SERM's is exactly what their names says: one is an aromatase inhibitor, there by inhibits the natural body production of estrogen by inhibiting the action of the aromatase enzyme; SERM (a.k.a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) doesn't inhibits the production of estrogen in your body, but it rather selectively modulates some of your estrogen receptors, this way you still produce estrogen but it won't interact with some of estrogen receptors in your body, for exemple, around our nipples we have a high amount of estrogen receptors that are activated when estrogen interacts with them in a certain level, when that natural level is surpassed (such as in a case of using steroids that aromatase - like tesoterone) those receptors will be stimulated and therefore produce breast tesseu (sorry i don't remember how to spell it in english) and this is how gyno apears. If you use a SERM while cycling with that steroid the SERM will modulate the activity of the estrogen receptors in that area perventing the formation of gyno, while you'll still have the benefits of the estrogen in your body. If you use a AI you will block the estrogen production and although you won't feel the effects of high estrogen you'll also feel the bad things that came with low estrogen (such as low libido, dry joints, etc.).
I hope I've been helpfull in your question, but as I said, I'm newbie in this steroid area so there migth be many people around here that could give you a more detailed information about them than me

 

[lennoxchi]

I'm newbie in this steroid area so there migth be many people around here that could give you a more detailed information about them than me

nope, you did a fine job!

 

[Cantell]

Though I'm by no means an expert in that mater, the diference between AI's and SERM's is exactly what their names says: one is an aromatase inhibitor, there by inhibits the natural body production of estrogen by inhibiting the action of the aromatase enzyme; SERM (a.k.a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) doesn't inhibits the production of estrogen in your body, but it rather selectively modulates some of your estrogen receptors, this way you still produce estrogen but it won't interact with some of estrogen receptors in your body, for exemple, around our nipples we have a high amount of estrogen receptors that are activated when estrogen interacts with them in a certain level, when that natural level is surpassed (such as in a case of using steroids that aromatase - like tesoterone) those receptors will be stimulated and therefore produce breast tesseu (sorry i don't remember how to spell it in english) and this is how gyno apears. If you use a SERM while cycling with that steroid the SERM will modulate the activity of the estrogen receptors in that area perventing the formation of gyno, while you'll still have the benefits of the estrogen in your body. If you use a AI you will block the estrogen production and although you won't feel the effects of high estrogen you'll also feel the bad things that came with low estrogen (such as low libido, dry joints, etc.).
I hope I've been helpfull in your question, but as I said, I'm newbie in this steroid area so there migth be many people around here that could give you a more detailed information about them than me

So, SERM is a better choice for PCT? Correct? Why would you ever use an AI instead of a SERM?

 

[lennoxchi]

So, SERM is a better choice for PCT? Correct? Why would you ever use an AI instead of a SERM?

i never do. the only time i use one is on cycle or right after my SERM use to surpress any estro still around.

 

[UGHQTempus]

So, SERM is a better choice for PCT? Correct? Why would you ever use an AI instead of a SERM?

SERMs have side effects. Depending on your perception of estrogen related risk, you might not want to risk the SERM sides.

For instance, you probably don't need a SERM for a lose dose halo clone especially if its a short run. You must likely won't need one if you are pulsing (depending on pulse rate, dosage and compound(s).)

Ultimately, you need bloodwork to make a truly informed decision and it seems like most people don't bloodwork done.

 

[Cantell]

Ok, so what I am saying is they are the same in theory correct? I mean they are both used for pct, for estrogen suppresion and control. But, when would you use one over the other?

Would you ever run em together?

 

[UGHQTempus]

Though I'm by no means an expert in that mater, the diference between AI's and SERM's is exactly what their names says: one is an aromatase inhibitor, there by inhibits the natural body production of estrogen by inhibiting the action of the aromatase enzyme; SERM (a.k.a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) doesn't inhibits the production of estrogen in your body, but it rather selectively modulates some of your estrogen receptors, this way you still produce estrogen but it won't interact with some of estrogen receptors in your body, for exemple, around our nipples we have a high amount of estrogen receptors that are activated when estrogen interacts with them in a certain level, when that natural level is surpassed (such as in a case of using steroids that aromatase - like tesoterone) those receptors will be stimulated and therefore produce breast tesseu (sorry i don't remember how to spell it in english) and this is how gyno apears. If you use a SERM while cycling with that steroid the SERM will modulate the activity of the estrogen receptors in that area perventing the formation of gyno, while you'll still have the benefits of the estrogen in your body. If you use a AI you will block the estrogen production and although you won't feel the effects of high estrogen you'll also feel the bad things that came with low estrogen (such as low libido, dry joints, etc.).
I hope I've been helpfull in your question, but as I said, I'm newbie in this steroid area so there migth be many people around here that could give you a more detailed information about them than me

Read this again. He answered that here.

 

[luclyluciano]

Also SERM are illegal an must be ordered from research labs. Most AI's work differently for different people. I have never used a SERM and don't plan on it. Currently pulsing SPAWN with Formestane on off days. All is well!

 

[flightposite]

ive never used a serm either just AI's and always bounced back fine i think it just depends on the individual.

 

[Cantell]

What is the best AI out there?

 

[qwerty33]

Atd and reversitol

 

[hardknock]

Ok, so what I am saying is they are the same in theory correct? I mean they are both used for pct, for estrogen suppresion and control. But, when would you use one over the other?

Would you ever run em together?

They are not the same in theory. One diminishes the presence of estrogen. The other, while doing nothing to lower the presence of estrogen, prevents it from binding to certain receptors.

 

[Broly]

Atd and reversitol

In chemical terms ATD and 3-OHAT are by themselfs prety good AI's, if not the most powerfull components in terms of lowering total estrogen (just for you to see I experemented Novedex XT by Gaspari Nutrition as a standalone test booster, and in just a single pill per day of proprety blend of this two components, three days latter I started taking it I've had to discontinue it's usage due to extremely dry joints and no libido at all, wich are both signs of low estrogen levels), but it may have happened because the combination of this two might be "too effecient" in terms of lowering estrogen levels, being said that less is better in the case of this two substances. And besides that, I've read around here that ATD metabolizes itself into anti-androgen metabolites (weather this is true or not I can't confirm).
Still, if you want a OTC AI that doesn't obliterate your estrogen you might find Formestane (a.k.a. 4-OHA) and 6-bromoandrostenedione (a.k.a. 6-bromo) better options, although I still haven't had any experience with them.
There is also another one that is 6-oxo, that it's been said to be a fairly good AI but not as harsher as ATD, but also not so eficient as 4-OHA and 6-bromo.
Hope I've been helpfull

 

[Cantell]

So, why does everyone say "SERM is a must" with PCT! Why not use AI!

 

[Broly]

So, why does everyone say "SERM is a must" with PCT! Why not use AI!

Because when we end a cycle our T:E ration is out of the normal range, so in order to bring it back to the right numbers we should look for a product that progressively bring us back our T:E ratio with no drastic changes. That's also the reason why when doing our PCT we should taper off the SERM, eventhough it isn't as harsh as an AI. To simplify all that I said I'll give to you two exemples:
-> let's say that you came off a 5 week cycle of Epithiostanol (a.k.a Epistane). By the end of that cycle your body won't be producing the same amount of testosterone that it was when you begun the cycle, because it adappeted it's own testosterone production to the effects of the exogenous compound that is Epistane, therefore you'll have lower testosterone levels and proportionaly high estrogen levels, because your body also adapted it's estrogen prodution to the usage of Epistane. Basicaly your body thinks: "Hey, this is alot of high anabolic compound around here so let's slow down the production of test and compensate with some estrogen to keep the ratios in the natural range!". So what happens to this equation when you take of the Epistane? Your body's T:E ratio is messed up, with the T levels where they should be if there was Epistane circulating your body, and E levels at a level that kept things balanced when Epistane was there. So here comes your question: why to use a SERM instead of a AI? Because a SERM will allow your body to still have estrogen to do whatever it is needed, but blocking estrogen activity in certain zones, and while the SERM does that, your body's chemestry starts to return to what it was before by elevating T levels and reducing estrogen conversion, in a rate that it would be much saffer and less stressfull to your body then if you use a AI that would cause more damages in your already messed up chemestry by suddenly skyrocketing T levels and obliterating your estrogen levels.
-> Second exemple (here's where a AI is helpfull): let's say that you are doing a 5 week cycle with Dianabol, wich is known for it's high possibility of aromatisation. During the time of cycling the usage of a AI is advised because beside your own natural estrogen production you'll be adding a compound the can convert itself into estrogen and stimulate any estrogen receptor around your body. You are probably thinking now "Why in the world should I use an AI instead of a SERM?", the answer is plain simple: you can use it but it'll only turn you cycle more expensive because in terms of results, from what I read they're prety much the same. So in this situation the AI isn't used in the PCT but in stead during the cycle, just to keep your estrogen levels low and lowering the possibility of gyno and other estrogen related problems. Of course, after the cycle it's needless to say that you need to do a PCT with a SERM and not with an AI.
I hope I've been helpfull to you

 

[Cantell]

That was perfect!!! I get it now!

One little side not... I just got off my cycle of HDROL and During the start off my PCT I lost damn near everything! I used nolvadex (serm) but no natural test booster. Do you think a natural test would have helped? I didnt use on because I thought like you said, the SERM would help bring back Test levels.


Thanks Again for that response! Helped me alot!

 

[Broly]

To start, I'm a non beliver on tribulus and ZMA and stuff like that as test boosters, or at least that they work effeciently enough to create any kind of anabolic state in our bodies.
With that said, I personaly don't think that the fact that you didn't used a test booster was the main reason why you lost almost all of your gains. Did you kept the caloric intake at the same level or even increased it as when you came off-cycle? Did you've taken proper nutritional supplementation? As some of the main mistakes that I see people do is "I'll eat 3000kcals per day while on! But when I come off I should eat less because I'm not on steroids!", then if you just spent two seconds thinking about this you'll see how silly it is! How can you sustain a certain amount of weight if you don't give him the nutrients to sustain it? Perhaps in terms of cycling program it was perfect, but the results of a steroid cycle are determinated by how good is your cycle, how good is your diet and how hard you train.

 

[WolfJFlywheel]

To start, I'm a non beliver on tribulus and ZMA and stuff like that as test boosters.

Agreed, Trib and zma DO NOT boost test levels in any way.


BioForge, Primal Male, T-Force, and Activate Xtreme are all excellent test boosters.