PCT for mass tabs need some help

[getswole3332]

Hello everyone i am new to this forum...i read here all the time but this is my first post! I have some mass tabs that I got a few weeks ago that i decided I shouldnt use without a few more weeks of research!! My friend did them with no PCT and got no gyno but he is a moron. I have been working on getting my PCT together and I have a few questions on dosages and some other thing I have not been able to figure out through research.....but before I ask them i should prolly say a little about myself/training/current supps.

22 years old
3 1/2 years of training (1 1/2 seriously)
current supps: cytogainer, mass-tech(gross), just finished my Jack3d and I have been on arimatest(an ai) for about two weeks...cyto and jack3d have creatine mono.
Pretty much work out 5 days a week with a strict grueling routine
Diet: I am a hard gainer(used to be 110 lbs junior year highschool lol) currently at 175lbs) so I dont worry about eating clean just eating as much as I can all the time. I seem to remain cut and vascular no matter how much or what I eat.

Ok mass tabs are my first PS cycle but I have done one P/H cycle before... I was a moron and did omnevol with no support and no PCT. I only did it for two weeks and discontinued them when I found how how dangerous they were and I have done MUCH MUCH research since then.

OK enough about me...on to the mass tabs PCT and support.

this is what i have been considering
SUPPORT SUPPS:AI's cycle support since it covers all aspects(cortisol blocker,liver,ect.) I also have some extra milk thistle on hand....does this sound ok

PCT: either AI's PCT(not totally clear on whats in it...anyone?) or anabolic xtremes mass stack(hyperdrolx2, retain 2,mass fx) which I have heard is good for PCT but it seems kinda pricey....does anyone know what would be more effective? also thought about saving the second half of arimatest for pct because it is a strong AI..ive heard you should wait two weeks into PCT to start an AI...anyone?

SERM: I would like to get some nolva because of the fact that methylsten(mass tabs) are strong and cause shutdown. people say that it is good to have "on hand"...does this mean that I dont need to use it until signs of gyno show up? If signs of gyno show up do I immediately stop mass tabs and start nolva or do I finish the cycle then use the nolva? Its also tough to figure out how to get a SERM because it cant be discussed on these forums. with the SERM i woul think to dose it 40/30/20/10..?? some say a SERM isnt needed for mass tabs but i dont know if I can believe that...it is aprosteroid after all

If I am going overkill with this PCT let me know as I just want to be safe...If anyone has any PCT tips or product tips to save $(i aint rich lol) it would be greatly appreciatedhave heard and seen great things about mass tabs and look forward to seeing and keeping some solid gains....thanks!!!!

 

[droppinplates]

I'd go with some Nolvadex and just use it 20mgs. ED for 4-5 weeks. Some taper to 10 the last week or two, but Mass Tabs are potent so I say run it straight at 20. If you were running Epi or maybe even HDrol I'd say maybe you could get away with OTC PCT, but Mass Tabs WILL shut you down and Nolva is PROVEN to work. Why take chance if you CAN get Nolva.

I also throw in some LiverLonger and Liv-52 with any methyl, but it's not needed. That's just me. LiverLonger, or TUDCA is the only live support with actual clinical studies behind it, but Liv-52 works really well for me and is cheap. AI Cycle support is excellent, but tastes like major ass, so I pay a little exta and get Life Support, the Cycle Support in pill form. Also, throw in some joint support like Animal Flex and some fish oils.....................couldn't hurt. An injury will END your cycle early and wastse your $$.

Other than that, looks good. Just remember to eat a lot, monitor BP and get adequate rest and hydration.

 

[getswole3332]

thank you so much dude....its tuff to get legit answers. I have found a legit resource for s SERM and its tough to decide between clomid,liquidex or nolva(nolva seems to be unavailable but i was able to find the other two). Some say that you need two SERMS...anyone?!?. If anyone could shed some light on which is best or if I need both. Alot of the research I have done indicates that l-dex is the most effective? Some say l-dex really works but it can prevent some gains from pro-steroids such as mass tabs

Should I run the SERM only if I see signs of gyno?....if I need to run it no matter what should it be during,after, or during and after my cycle? Also if I have a SERM do I need AI's PCT tabs(of cousre I will still purchase the AI cycle support).

Overview:

Before cycle-arimatest(cuz i was already on it), 1 week loading of milk thistle.

During cycle-mass tabs, milk thistle, AI's cycle support

post cycle-AI's post cycle support(do i really need it if i have a SERM?), l-dex(cant find nolva), possibly arimatest as an AI two weeks after cycle?

I am hoping to cut out some of these products if at all possible to save some $.....also sorry about all the questions, I have researched this ALOT but I need to hear it from you guys...i kinda have OCD so i tend to be overly careful...thanks in advance for the info!!

 

[getswole3332]

also i keep reading that arimidex or liquidex are fine by themselves....another dude said that he doesnt use his nolva until he sees signs of gyno and to just keep it on hand. This leads me to believe that arimidex and l-dex prevent gyno but on the off chance that it does occur nolvadex is what I woul need to use at that point to get rid of the present symtoms. thanks again...i'm spending more time researching this stuff than studying for my econ exam lol.

 

[Wolfenstein]

Run the Asteroid stack, Prime will optimize your test/cort/estrogen levels, powerfull will bring the boys back +control prolactin Anabolic pump will insure proper Cholesterol with continued increase in size and strength off cycle...

 

[getswole3332]

thanks wolf i appreciate any additional info I can gather! however, its not the basic knowledge that im lacking but rather the specific details that I cant find answers to specifically regardingthe SERM....if yall could look closely at my OP and second post the questions I have are quite specific. sorry again for all the questions but it seems as though the more I research the more confused I get:/

 

[droppinplates]

thank you so much dude....its tuff to get legit answers. I have found a legit resource for s SERM and its tough to decide between clomid,liquidex or nolva(nolva seems to be unavailable but i was able to find the other two). Some say that you need two SERMS...anyone?!?. If anyone could shed some light on which is best or if I need both. Alot of the research I have done indicates that l-dex is the most effective? Some say l-dex really works but it can prevent some gains from pro-steroids such as mass tabs

Should I run the SERM only if I see signs of gyno?....if I need to run it no matter what should it be during,after, or during and after my cycle? Also if I have a SERM do I need AI's PCT tabs(of cousre I will still purchase the AI cycle support).

Overview:





Before cycle-arimatest(cuz i was already on it), 1 week loading of milk thistle.

During cycle-mass tabs, milk thistle, AI's cycle support

post cycle-AI's post cycle support(do i really need it if i have a SERM?), l-dex(cant find nolva), possibly arimatest as an AI two weeks after cycle?

I am hoping to cut out some of these products if at all possible to save some $.....also sorry about all the questions, I have researched this ALOT but I need to hear it from you guys...i kinda have OCD so i tend to be overly careful...thanks in advance for the info!!

I think you can get away without the post cycle support if you're using Nolva. That should bring you back, but the road back might be rocky. Some like using a test booster, like Testabolan V2, Hypertest, Tribosten or even an AI like Novadex, Reversitol or the like.

I'd prolly use Creapure as well post cycle and maybe an NO booster, but don't go overboard with it. Nolva should do most of the work. If you want, some even keep Viagra or Cialis on hand during their cycle just in case you lose some steam from being shutdown.

I'd keep up the liver support for at least 2-3 weeks post cycle, too
Don't complicate sh_t.

 

[getswole3332]

thanx plates, you are the man! after your info and EVEN more research I have decided on the following:

load up on the milk thistle for a week then...
ON CYCLE-cycle support by AI and the thistle and liquidex(CANT FIND NOLVA) at .25 ED
WHEN SHOULD I START USING THE SERM!!!!

POST CYCLE-cytogainer, continue using the liquidex SERM(for how long into PCT?)or should I cut off the liquidex after the cycle? Also, if the SERM is doin its job then is the point of the AI/test booster. anyhow would you(plates)recommend an AI or a natty test booster..i already have some arimatest left

still a little confused, but does this look like its comin together ok??

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I would run the Nolva at 20/20/20/20 and the AI pct if your talking about Post Cycle Support it is a natty test booster it also helps reduce estro and is a great antioxidant. If you decide to run it do it like this. I would use the nolva and not just if you see signs of gyno.

Nolva 20/20/20/20

Post Cycle Support either weeks 2-5 of pct or week 3-6 of pct.

 

[droppinplates]

thanx plates, you are the man! after your info and EVEN more research I have decided on the following:

load up on the milk thistle for a week then...
ON CYCLE-cycle support by AI and the thistle and liquidex(CANT FIND NOLVA) at .25 ED
WHEN SHOULD I START USING THE SERM!!!!

POST CYCLE-cytogainer, continue using the liquidex SERM(for how long into PCT?)or should I cut off the liquidex after the cycle? Also, if the SERM is doin its job then is the point of the AI/test booster. anyhow would you(plates)recommend an AI or a natty test booster..i already have some arimatest left

still a little confused, but does this look like its comin together ok??

Arimatest is pretty good I hear. I've heard Mass Tabs are supposed to have a longer half life than Sdrol and the like so start SERM the day after your last dose of MT. Half life is a matter of hours, so you should be good to go either way.

SERM for 4-5 weeks, depending on how u feel and lab results, which is recommended before and after and the only 100% way to know if you made it back, but if the flag's a raising and the troops are numerous, 4 weeks should be good to go.

 

[getswole3332]

my final two questions and im good to go!!!

If signs of gyno show up should i stop the mass tabs and start my SERM or should I continue the mass tabs and and just run the SERM with it???? Most of what I have researched would say to stop them. However, this huge guy at the gym said his nipples get a little inflamed or sensitive and thats how he knows the mass tabs are working.

Will the liquidex be ok as a nolva replacement? I have read that its better for preventing gyno but that if you still end up gettin gyno you need nolva. Liquidex is all i can get so couldnt I just bump up the amound of liquidex im takin to combat gyno(if i get it)

 

[getswole3332]

anyone...? im almost there cmon help me out

 

[droppinplates]

my final two questions and im good to go!!!

If signs of gyno show up should i stop the mass tabs and start my SERM or should I continue the mass tabs and and just run the SERM with it???? Most of what I have researched would say to stop them. However, this huge guy at the gym said his nipples get a little inflamed or sensitive and thats how he knows the mass tabs are working.

Will the liquidex be ok as a nolva replacement? I have read that its better for preventing gyno but that if you still end up gettin gyno you need nolva. Liquidex is all i can get so couldnt I just bump up the amound of liquidex im takin to combat gyno(if i get it)

If you get painfull lumps or discharge, aka Gyno, then stop immediately and start you PCT. A little, and I mean a little, puffiness or swelling doesn't necessarily mean gyno as sides differ person to person and could just be water retention. But, real pain, lumps or discharge should be dealt with immediately.

Don't know anything about liquidex, never heard of it................maybe somebody else, or Google has, though.

Good luck.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I agree if you start to get gyno stop the cycle and start pct. I also do not know much about liquidex

 

[getswole3332]

thanks i really appreiciate all the info...i will post back and tell how it went if anyone wants to know

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

thanks i really appreiciate all the info...i will post back and tell how it went if anyone wants to know

Anytime bro and yes please let us know how you make out.

 

[getswole3332]

OK!! i am finally feelin like i am ready to start this cycle.

PRE CYCLE-1 week loading phase of mil thistle, arimatest(6-bromo)
ON CYCLE-AI's cycle support and .25mg liquidex every day...also some additional milk thistle
post cycle-.25mg liquid nolva every day,milk thistle, and arimatest(should i wait two weeks into pct to start arimatest or an NO product such as NO xplode)

the liquid nolva i found is tamoxi 50ml true twenty...that is nolvadex correct? all in all(THANKS TO THIS FORUM!!!) im ready to get this cycle started(ttok about a month of solid research LOL!!!)

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

OK!! i am finally feelin like i am ready to start this cycle.

PRE CYCLE-1 week loading phase of mil thistle, arimatest(6-bromo)
ON CYCLE-AI's cycle support and .25mg liquidex every day...also some additional milk thistle
post cycle-.25mg liquid nolva every day,milk thistle, and arimatest(should i wait two weeks into pct to start arimatest or an NO product such as NO xplode)

the liquid nolva i found is tamoxi 50ml true twenty...that is nolvadex correct? all in all(THANKS TO THIS FORUM!!!) im ready to get this cycle started(ttok about a month of solid research LOL!!!)

There is no need for any extra milk thistle Cycle Support has enough. What you found is Nolva. I am not undertanding your nolva dosage .25mg????

 

[getswole3332]

thanks pembroke!! ok i wont do the milk thistle while On because i already have cycle support...i cant afford enough cycle support for before and after my cycle so i will run the milk thistle before and after my cycle and the AI cycle support while on. i still am unclear as to whether or not i should get liquinolva(l-nol) or tamoxifen true twenty....also any additional advice on how to dose the liquinolva??....oh and as for the dosage i meant 20mg liquinolva per day(thats legit right?)...other than that it basically comes down to LIQUINOLVA(L-NOL) VS. TAMOXIFEN TRUE TWENTY....if they are similar enough I would like to get the tamox true twenty because its on the same website as the L-dex im gettin....

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

thanks pembroke!! ok i wont do the milk thistle while On because i already have cycle support...i cant afford enough cycle support for before and after my cycle so i will run the milk thistle before and after my cycle and the AI cycle support while on. i still am unclear as to whether or not i should get liquinolva(l-nol) or tamoxifen true twenty....also any additional advice on how to dose the liquinolva??....oh and as for the dosage i meant 20mg liquinolva per day(thats legit right?)...other than that it basically comes down to LIQUINOLVA(L-NOL) VS. TAMOXIFEN TRUE TWENTY....if they are similar enough I would like to get the tamox true twenty because its on the same website as the L-dex im gettin....

They are the same and 20mg looks like a good dose. If your going to use milk thistle before cycle also grab some hawthorne berry(which is in Cycle Support) you will need to pre-load the hawthorne berry in order for it to be effective for BP control. Goos luck bro.

 

[getswole3332]

good call on the hawthorn berry!!! THANKS. the l-nol is 25mg per ml and the vial has 30ml for 60$.....the tamox true twenty is 50ml(not sure how many mg per ml...anyone???) but is has no dropper thingy its just a bottle and is ten bucks less at 50$. can you just tell me which one i should buy i really cant decide????

 

[getswole3332]

anyone...??

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

good call on the hawthorn berry!!! THANKS. the l-nol is 25mg per ml and the vial has 30ml for 60$.....the tamox true twenty is 50ml(not sure how many mg per ml...anyone???) but is has no dropper thingy its just a bottle and is ten bucks less at 50$. can you just tell me which one i should buy i really cant decide????

I would go with true twenty as 1ml=20mg does not matter if it has a dropper you can always get a baby syringe.

 

[getswole3332]

thanks again pembroke....I now have everything i need to have a safe cycle!!! i chose the true twenty like you said and i will get a baby syringe.

On a side note-how should i incorporate arimatest into my PCT?? its a natty test booster(ai) that uses 6-bromo(alpha and beta) and also has ATD. I read somewhere that I should wait two weeks into PCT to run a natty test booster or an NO product such as NO xplode....any thoughts on this pembroke? o ya i added to your rep!!!!!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

thanks again pembroke....I now have everything i need to have a safe cycle!!! i chose the true twenty like you said and i will get a baby syringe.

On a side note-how should i incorporate arimatest into my PCT?? its a natty test booster(ai) that uses 6-bromo(alpha and beta) and also has ATD. I read somewhere that I should wait two weeks into PCT to run a natty test booster or an NO product such as NO xplode....any thoughts on this pembroke? o ya i added to your rep!!!!!

That sound good I would start it on week 3 of pct. Good luck.

 

[getswole3332]

OK now im a little worried cuz I have been runing the arimatest for a little under 3 weeks and I didnt even think about the fact that I need estrogen for gains(arimatest is an ai). My problem is that if im running arimatest precycle, liquidex SERM on cycle, and Liquinolva SERM post cycle im worried i might be blocking too much estrogen and will inhibit my gains. many people on on other sites have been sayin that I shouldnt touch the liquidex or nolvadex until I absolutely need it to esure good gains. Another dude said that he had liquidex and liquinolva(like me) but that he DOES NOT use them on cycle because it will inhibit his gains....instead he uses the liquidex POST cycle and keeps the nolva "on hand" in case gyno symtoms pop up. basically this means he is only running cycle support ON cycle...is this legit? I just want to get the best gains i can while still being safe....thanks!!

 

[droppinplates]

OK now im a little worried cuz I have been runing the arimatest for a little under 3 weeks and I didnt even think about the fact that I need estrogen for gains(arimatest is an ai). My problem is that if im running arimatest precycle, liquidex SERM on cycle, and Liquinolva SERM post cycle im worried i might be blocking too much estrogen and will inhibit my gains. many people on on other sites have been sayin that I shouldnt touch the liquidex or nolvadex until I absolutely need it to esure good gains. Another dude said that he had liquidex and liquinolva(like me) but that he DOES NOT use them on cycle because it will inhibit his gains....instead he uses the liquidex POST cycle and keeps the nolva "on hand" in case gyno symtoms pop up. basically this means he is only running cycle support ON cycle...is this legit? I just want to get the best gains i can while still being safe....thanks!!

??????????????????????????????...........................



My problem is that if im running arimatest precycle, liquidex SERM on cycle

Why would you run your SERM on cycle?


You only need SERM POST cycle, not on. That's like pissing up a rope taking a SERM on cycle. Start it the morning after your last dose and just run it 20mgs. a day.




And the Arimatest won't have a great enough net effect to really diminish your cycle.

Just go for it, already............but don't take the arimatest ON cycle. Save it for 2-3 week PCT, even though I have friends who start it the last week on cycle to give natty levels a kick in the a_s.

I never have, though

 

[thegodfather]

Just ordered some Mass Tabs (one bottle) because I've been so anxious to see what all the hype is about. Thinking about bridging it with something but I'll figure that out soon enough. Have Clomid / Nolva / Letro on hand for gyno and or PCT so good to go there.

 

[getswole3332]

??????????????????????????????...........................



My problem is that if im running arimatest precycle, liquidex SERM on cycle

Why would you run your SERM on cycle?


You only need SERM POST cycle, not on. That's like pissing up a rope taking a SERM on cycle. Start it the morning after your last dose and just run it 20mgs. a day.




And the Arimatest won't have a great enough net effect to really diminish your cycle.

Just go for it, already............but don't take the arimatest ON cycle. Save it for 2-3 week PCT, even though I have friends who start it the last week on cycle to give natty levels a kick in the a_s.

I never have, though

I would run the L-dex SERM ON cycle because it PREVENTS gyno and some people report getting gyno ON cycle!!! Nolva can get rid of or reverse gyno so many people have recommended to run a preventative SERM (liquidex) while ON(especially if you are pron to gyno..seems like i would be with my luck) and then running the nolva after...can you explain why this would be "pissing up a rope" as you say....will it inhibit my gains?? also I'm not interested in just "starting already" until I have my sh#t figured out bro...havent you ever heard better safe than sorry?

 

[droppinplates]

I would run the L-dex SERM ON cycle because it PREVENTS gyno and some people report getting gyno ON cycle!!! Nolva can get rid of or reverse gyno so many people have recommended to run a preventative SERM (liquidex) while ON(especially if you are pron to gyno..seems like i would be with my luck) and then running the nolva after...can you explain why this would be "pissing up a rope" as you say....will it inhibit my gains?? also I'm not interested in just "starting already" until I have my sh#t figured out bro...havent you ever heard better safe than sorry?

On Cycle, you're gonna be shutdown. As long as you have more exogenous test being put into your body than their is endogenous test, your body isn't going to produce it's own cause it's shutdown and your estro levels would be high and erradicating it mid cycle would be kinda counterproductive as you need some estrogen, too. With no estrogen, you'll have no test. They're inveresely proportional meaning as one goes up, the other usually goes down and estro levels will be low cause of the gear, but that's what PCT is for..........................POST cycle therapy, not intra cycle therapy to bring back your htpa function and natural test production from shutdownagain cause that's what happens on cycle.

That's just my thoughts, I could be wrong. I think you know what you need to know to do it and as long as you train adequately, rest sufficiently and get proper nutrition, you should see great gains and keep most of them, barring any weird "cycle flu" or "cycle colds" some people get 2 weeks in.

Plus if your cash is low like you said, why use up your serm unless you have visible signs of gyno or are in PCT

I think you'd be limiting your gains.

 

[getswole3332]

alright ive decided im gonna just keep my SERMS on hand in case i start to see gyno(I have a feeling im prone cuz i have bad luck!) but i wont use them on cycle if i dont have to. I think this makes the most sense. Most people keep the nolva for PCT. Lots of people say that when they see the signs of gyno they just start the nolva early and still finish the cycle....if gyno signs show uip should i just start the SERM and finish the mass tabs or should i call them quits??? Nolva will get rid of the gyno right so why not finish the mass tabs cycle...right?

If anyone else wants to give their opinion on running a preventative SERM on cycle it would be greatly appreciated....thanks again...almost ready lol!

 

[getswole3332]

If someone could answer the question in my last post I can start these mass tabs today cuz i have all my stuff now...sorry to be so pushy i just really wanna get started!!!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

No SERM on cycle and if you get gyno stop the cycle and sart the Nolva do not continue the cycle.

 

[getswole3332]

alright thanks bro...also pembroke do you have any thoughts on the (an AI) diminishing my gains if used pre cycle.
ARIMATEST=6-bromo alpha and beta/ATD...ihave been running 3 on workout days and 2 on off days(slightly more than the recommended dosage)
Thanks again!! i would be screwed without you guys, im lovinn these forums

 

[getswole3332]

where you at pembroke lol...jus need one more answer from you brotha

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Dont think the Arimatest is going to hurt you cycle.

 

[getswole3332]

alright thanks to u guys im completelyt ready. i am a noob to these forums and I would like to keep a log of my cycle and I assume I should start a new thread for this....where should I keep this log? and are you guys interested?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

alright thanks to u guys im completelyt ready. i am a noob to these forums and I would like to keep a log of my cycle and I assume I should start a new thread for this....where should I keep this log? and are you guys interested?

Supplement review/log forum