- 07-23-2009, 11:35 PM
Now I felt comfortable about my cycle (500mg/wk test e for 12 weeks and 40mg/day dbol for 5 weeks) and pct (Nolvadex) until I started doing more research into HGC and realized that HGC sounds like a good idea to take while on the cycle and for pct. Does HGC seem necessary for this cycle if so, what regiment would I need to be on and how much total product would I need to obtain for the cycle and pct. Thanks
p.s. I'm 21 5'11" 180lbs and have been training for 4 years.
- 07-23-2009, 11:57 PM
neccesary ? no, good idea yea,
id use it in PCT though unless your libido goes for some reason on cycle.
- 07-24-2009, 01:10 AM
okay so what dosage regiment and how long after the last injection should I start? 2 weeks I believe
07-24-2009, 01:15 AM
for hcg id wait 5-8 days after last shot then do 1500-2000 ius every 3rd day for a total of 4-5 shots with 1mg adex everyday. after last shot of hcg start up clomid therapy.
there are ways to do it on cycle as well, ive been using it during my cycle however mine was WAY too long and i would never advise it to anyone. i think if you wanted to do it during cycle i would do it weeks 8-13 at 250 iu e3d (500iu a week) and then at the end of week 13 start of week 14 start clomid
07-24-2009, 01:22 AM
I have nolva would that suffice instead of clomid, and I don't have any adex...would you suggest I get some? I have the gear but I'm not starting the cycle until I know and have everything necessary on hand, which is only logical.. I really appreciate the help btw
07-24-2009, 01:24 AM
you can get something like 6bromo or atd or formex for the AI not a problem do know that you should take it eod throughout cycle and PCT to keep estrogenic sides down and less likely for gyno!
when i would say adex is nessesary is when high doses of hcg is there and u need something stronger then an OTC but these OTC are among the strongest out!
07-24-2009, 01:37 AM
okay formex it is... the dosage? the pills are 25mg
also would 10000IU suffice for HCG... I can't stand looking at all this gear and not taking it but I want to do it right so I'll just have to wait
07-24-2009, 01:46 AM
07-24-2009, 07:51 AM
HCG is not used for PCT. Run it the last 10 weeks of your cycle. Weeks 4-13 will be fine. It's used to prevent gonad atrophy and will make recovery from your 14 week cycle MUCH easier. 14 weeks is a long cycle and the HCG will do you well. Tamoxifen will be sufficient for PCT and I would run it 6 weeks, dosed like this...40/40/20/20/10/10.
Pin the HCG twice per week 250iu. 5000iu will be fine.
07-24-2009, 07:56 AM
It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).
Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.
HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.
The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.
From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:
1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.
07-24-2009, 10:39 AM
Good copy and paste. However this is why an ai is incorperated everyday while using such high doses. And I never seen any one go higher then 2000iu of hcg in a shot. To me that's too much
07-24-2009, 10:51 AM
07-24-2009, 11:03 AM
just take 250iu twice a week throughout your cycle. its my personal believe that HCG should be considered "required" for any cycle longer than 5-6 weeks. the test your own body produces will give you more gains than test injected too so you will see more gains if you are using HCG due to your increased natural test. i also do not agree that using HCG in PCT is the way to use it. use it throughout your cycle in small doses, consistency is key.
07-24-2009, 11:23 AM
07-24-2009, 11:31 AM
07-24-2009, 11:44 AM
07-24-2009, 12:05 PM
Only necessary IMO cycles longer then 12 weeks and even then depends on how u xhoose to do it. I've been on for a very long time so I used it during and ill stop it next week and then use the rest for pct
07-24-2009, 12:13 PM
i've seen studies that show evidence of permanent damage to your testes from being shut down for 10+ weeks. i will never do another cycle without it. the stuff is cheap and at 250iu is not going to hurt it so i see little reason NOT to use it.
07-24-2009, 12:22 PM
Can u link the studies please? I've seen damage done in studies from constant hcg doses causing lesions on leydig cells. We can go back and forth about it all day. But this sites is for people to drop different advice from what's worked for them so people can make ther own decisions were adults we can make our own choices on what is best for us
07-24-2009, 03:30 PM
well after all this debate I think I'm going to run 250IU 2x/week from weeks 4-14 sound good? with the formex 50mg eod throughout the entire cycle and pct
07-24-2009, 03:47 PM
07-24-2009, 03:53 PM
07-24-2009, 05:48 PM
My error I'm running the test for 12 weeks, and starting pct on the 14th should i still take hcg and formex during the two weeks after my last shot and before pct?
07-24-2009, 05:57 PM
07-24-2009, 06:12 PM
yes, take it while there is exogenous hormone in your body. less is better too, so experiment with the dose too. for me anyway, i can certainly feel it when the test starts in my body.
07-24-2009, 06:13 PM
07-24-2009, 06:17 PM
Haven't done post yet. Been on since january lol. But shhhhh haha. I know a lot of people who used palumbos protocol as well as swale I believe his name is
07-24-2009, 06:27 PM
thanks, now I always was always told to shoot hcg subQ but im seeing videos of people shoot it IM, they say you can do either.. is that legit?
07-24-2009, 06:36 PM
i've always just done it IM, i don't think it matters how you shoot it or where on your body since it goes into your blood stream either way.
07-24-2009, 06:40 PM
07-27-2009, 06:34 AM
Hey, I could really use some advice. I had been on testosterone replacement therapy for about three years after finding out that my test levels were below 300 (using Quest Diagnostics testing). The doctor that I saw put me on Testosterone Cypionate injections that boosted my total t levels to 827, but I felt no boost in libido and it actually has made things worse it seems. I ended up switching to testosterone gel, but gave it up because I still saw no changes. I've been off of it for about a month and a half, just had bloodwork done which showed my total t at 473, and my estradiol at 31 (using Quest again). I didn't realize it at the time, but my doctor didn't request a free testosterone check, so I have to go back to get that done. I haven't really felt different compared to when I was using the testosterone, but I have gotten a little flabbier, especially in the chest area which is making me nervous. I'd really appreciate any advice.
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