I'm curious about something and want to get a handle on this.
After a progestin cycle, I assume that test levels are low and estrogen levels are high. A SERM would block the estrogen from reaching the receptors in the breast tissue. At the same time, there is a possibility for progestin induced gyno due to the stimulation of progesterone receptors. This is where the clomid comes in. Apparently it has the ability to block estrogen and progesterone? P-5-P / cabergoline would be used after gyno starts to appear, however, I'm not too concerned with treating gyno after it starts, but rather how to prevent it in the first place. Thoughts? If you quote a reliable source, please be sure to document it with a link. Thanks
I suppose my question is this:
How does clomid prevent progestin gyno? Clomid also will prevent Estrogen gyno as well and will restore natural test.
Here's what lifting stud had to say (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/105237-tren-designer-information-2.html): (taken from page 2 and 3)
Progesterone : Its not so much progesterone that we watch, which is actually a healthy hormone, but progestins which may act upon its receptors. Progestins, like Tren or Deca (nor-9's), may act on its receptor or lower progesterone in the blood. Gyno and lactating are more common side effects. Some people use progesterone receptor blockers to combat this, or a prolactin production inhibitor.
FYI:
Progesterone — influences the growth in size of alveoli and lobes. Progesterone levels drop after birth. This triggers the onset of copious milk production.
Prolactin — contributes to the increased growth of the alveoli during pregnancy.
*******************************************
Role of Progesterone in causing gyno:
Progesterone is found in both males and females. It is a precursor to many important hormones in men and women. In women it plays a role in pregnancy and in breast growth. In men, excessive progesterone can stimulate breast growth, like it does with women. While Estrogen is normally the cause of gynecomastia under normal physiological conditions, Tren and other similiar steroids stimulate the progesterone receptors because they are not only anabolic steroids, but also of a class called progestins. Progestins are the synthetic forms of steroids structurally similiar to progesterone, that have the ability to bind to the progesterone receptor too. Deca and Anadrol also are progestins, but they also aromotize to estrogen, unlike Tren. Some bodybuilders coin the term “progesterone gyno”, to explain gyno from progestin steroids.
Progesterone Gyno Controversy:
There is a major debate among bodybuilders on this entire topic. Some believe that progesterone causes the gyno in Tren users. Others believe it is actually prolactin, the hormone responsible for lactation and breast growth during a women’s pregnancy. This may explain why some experience lactating on tren cycles. Others believe it is a combination of estrogens and either prolactin or progesterone, working all synergistically to develop gyno.
Who is right?
Many Research studies I’ve seen, show that estrogen plays a synergistic role with progesterone, prolactin, and in gynecomastia. Although some bodybuilders say it’s the prolactin or progesterone directly causing it, there is NO studies to show gyno can develop without high levels of estrogen. Even IGF-1 and Growth hormone has been shown in studies to play a crucial synergistic role in the development of breast tissue. So I believe no matter what kind of steroid you take, lowering estrogen with anti-estrogens and avoiding stacking Tren with aromatizing steroids, is how you really prevent “Progesterone gyno”. With very low levels of circulating estrogen, it appears impossible or very difficult for progesterone gyno to develop.
Progesterone Control
Lilopristone, Onapristone: These are progesterone blockers also, said to be safer and possibly more effective than RU-486 when it comes to progesterone blocking. They were developed after RU-486 in an attempt to make more effective, less harsh drugs to block progesterone.
Dostinex (Cabergoline), Bromo (Bromocriptine), B-6 : These are used for Deca/Tren gyno sides. This type of gyno is related to progesterone and its receptors. Tren/Deca may act on the progesterone receptor, as they are progestins, and may increase prolactin in the blood (causing lactating). These drugs stop production of prolactin at the pituitary gland. Controlling estrogen levels with an AI also helps here, as progestins themsleves haven't been proven to cause gyno.
RU-486 (Mifepristone - abortion pill) : This drug has the ability to block estrogen, progesterone AND cortisol. It may or may not be very well tolerated, but I would like to find out more about it, as it is used in the bodybuilding world. In PCT it is used to block cortisol and progesterone. A powerful drug that may turn out to be a good choice, but i need more evidence and feedback from experience useing RU-486. Check out this thread i have going if you would like to learn more about it :
RU-486 - Mifepristone (abortion pill) - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums
After a progestin cycle, I assume that test levels are low and estrogen levels are high. A SERM would block the estrogen from reaching the receptors in the breast tissue. At the same time, there is a possibility for progestin induced gyno due to the stimulation of progesterone receptors. This is where the clomid comes in. Apparently it has the ability to block estrogen and progesterone? P-5-P / cabergoline would be used after gyno starts to appear, however, I'm not too concerned with treating gyno after it starts, but rather how to prevent it in the first place. Thoughts? If you quote a reliable source, please be sure to document it with a link. Thanks
I suppose my question is this:
How does clomid prevent progestin gyno? Clomid also will prevent Estrogen gyno as well and will restore natural test.
Here's what lifting stud had to say (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/105237-tren-designer-information-2.html): (taken from page 2 and 3)
Progesterone : Its not so much progesterone that we watch, which is actually a healthy hormone, but progestins which may act upon its receptors. Progestins, like Tren or Deca (nor-9's), may act on its receptor or lower progesterone in the blood. Gyno and lactating are more common side effects. Some people use progesterone receptor blockers to combat this, or a prolactin production inhibitor.
FYI:
Progesterone — influences the growth in size of alveoli and lobes. Progesterone levels drop after birth. This triggers the onset of copious milk production.
Prolactin — contributes to the increased growth of the alveoli during pregnancy.
*******************************************
Role of Progesterone in causing gyno:
Progesterone is found in both males and females. It is a precursor to many important hormones in men and women. In women it plays a role in pregnancy and in breast growth. In men, excessive progesterone can stimulate breast growth, like it does with women. While Estrogen is normally the cause of gynecomastia under normal physiological conditions, Tren and other similiar steroids stimulate the progesterone receptors because they are not only anabolic steroids, but also of a class called progestins. Progestins are the synthetic forms of steroids structurally similiar to progesterone, that have the ability to bind to the progesterone receptor too. Deca and Anadrol also are progestins, but they also aromotize to estrogen, unlike Tren. Some bodybuilders coin the term “progesterone gyno”, to explain gyno from progestin steroids.
Progesterone Gyno Controversy:
There is a major debate among bodybuilders on this entire topic. Some believe that progesterone causes the gyno in Tren users. Others believe it is actually prolactin, the hormone responsible for lactation and breast growth during a women’s pregnancy. This may explain why some experience lactating on tren cycles. Others believe it is a combination of estrogens and either prolactin or progesterone, working all synergistically to develop gyno.
Who is right?
Many Research studies I’ve seen, show that estrogen plays a synergistic role with progesterone, prolactin, and in gynecomastia. Although some bodybuilders say it’s the prolactin or progesterone directly causing it, there is NO studies to show gyno can develop without high levels of estrogen. Even IGF-1 and Growth hormone has been shown in studies to play a crucial synergistic role in the development of breast tissue. So I believe no matter what kind of steroid you take, lowering estrogen with anti-estrogens and avoiding stacking Tren with aromatizing steroids, is how you really prevent “Progesterone gyno”. With very low levels of circulating estrogen, it appears impossible or very difficult for progesterone gyno to develop.
Progesterone Control
Lilopristone, Onapristone: These are progesterone blockers also, said to be safer and possibly more effective than RU-486 when it comes to progesterone blocking. They were developed after RU-486 in an attempt to make more effective, less harsh drugs to block progesterone.
Dostinex (Cabergoline), Bromo (Bromocriptine), B-6 : These are used for Deca/Tren gyno sides. This type of gyno is related to progesterone and its receptors. Tren/Deca may act on the progesterone receptor, as they are progestins, and may increase prolactin in the blood (causing lactating). These drugs stop production of prolactin at the pituitary gland. Controlling estrogen levels with an AI also helps here, as progestins themsleves haven't been proven to cause gyno.
RU-486 (Mifepristone - abortion pill) : This drug has the ability to block estrogen, progesterone AND cortisol. It may or may not be very well tolerated, but I would like to find out more about it, as it is used in the bodybuilding world. In PCT it is used to block cortisol and progesterone. A powerful drug that may turn out to be a good choice, but i need more evidence and feedback from experience useing RU-486. Check out this thread i have going if you would like to learn more about it :
RU-486 - Mifepristone (abortion pill) - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums