Who came up with four weeks? WHY?

[RoadBlocK]

Simple really, who decided the pct was four weeks?

Why not two weeks, or 6 weeks?

If your on a light cycle of something like epi for 5 weeks, and after 2 weeks of pct the balls are back, the libido is back, and theres no signs of any gyno/puff nips why keep going?

I am NOT being sarcastic, I really want to know the answers, if there are any scientific ones.

 

[partyman43]

Simple really, who decided the pct was four weeks?

Why not two weeks, or 6 weeks?

If your on a light cycle of something like epi for 5 weeks, and after 2 weeks of pct the balls are back, the libido is back, and theres no signs of any gyno/puff nips why keep going?

I am NOT being sarcastic, I really want to know the answers, if there are any scientific ones.

Good question....althought PCT isn't always 4 weeks... right.
The length(of PCT) is based upon the PH one uses(and its dosage potency), the amount of time you are running it and its reaction to the individual taking it. Some people can, possibly, get away with less PCT while some people need more PCT.

Not official, but just my 2 cents:thumbsup:

 

[RoadBlocK]

Good question....althought PCT isn't always 4 weeks... right.
The length(of PCT) is based upon the PH one uses(and its dosage potency), the amount of time you are running it and its reaction to the individual taking it. Some people can, possibly, get away with less PCT while some people need more PCT.

Not official, but just my 2 cents:thumbsup:

Thanks for the reply, you make some valid points, but I still stand by my original question, although I agree with what you wrote, it sure does seem like all the pcts I see outlined are for 4 weeks, with like nolv at 40/40/20/20, or something similar. I would just like to know what significance the 4 weeks has, or if its just a convenient number thats easy to follow.

 

[partyman43]

Thanks for the reply, you make some valid points, but I still stand by my original question, although I agree with what you wrote, it sure does seem like all the pcts I see outlined are for 4 weeks, with like nolv at 40/40/20/20, or something similar. I would just like to know what significance the 4 weeks has, or if its just a convenient number thats easy to follow.

OHHH....true that all SERM pcts seem to be 4 weeks...Your talking to an individual who is not a serm only pct fan. I like to also incorporate other supps.(AI,Test Boosters) into all my pcts.

Of course I've been know to slightly overdue PCT rather than underdo it:thumbsup:

I haven't been able to find any info on a search yet...I'll keep you posted:head:

 

[Titanium]

Read a thread in this forum called OCT PCT. Don't read it for the OCT PCT stuff but the author explains what the body does in certain time frames and how it responds. The gist I get is that at about day 21 in PCT the body is getting close to producing normal test levels but estrogen issues can rise at the same time. Also the author looks at PCT as about 6 to 7 weeks as opposed to the popular 4 weeks. The other thing I find is these are mostly theories and best practices that seem to get real world results. Maybe I'm cautious but I used a 7 week PCT and am happy with the results. No need to rush things and grow man boobs.

 

[suncloud]

i think its based on what "most" people need to recover blood lipids, cholesterol, blood pressure, and testosterone to pre cycle levels. i fully believe some people need a longer PCT than others - meso's in paticular (because of the high body fat, and naturally higher estrogen), and ecto's less (because of low body fat, and natural low estrogen). i can't prove any of that, so its just my thoughts and opinions - not scientific fact.

i'm an ecto, and i can drop out of PCT after two weeks and be perfectly fine. that may be a genetic thing, it may not be. of course i've never messed with the big boys (M1T or SD), so maybe i'd need 4 weeks to recover from them.

this would be an awesome study for someone to do with different PH's and different body types, and doing bloodwork every week on all of the candidates. i'm almost willing to pay for it myself, and drag a few random friends into a cycle. how much does bloodwork cost anyways?

PCT was not around in arnolds era, and we never heard of moobs in the 70's and early 80's - realistically are we just blowing things out of proportion, or erring on the side of caution?

 

[partyman43]

i think its based on what "most" people need to recover blood lipids, cholesterol, blood pressure, and testosterone to pre cycle levels. i fully believe some people need a longer PCT than others - meso's in paticular (because of the high body fat, and naturally higher estrogen), and ecto's less (because of low body fat, and natural low estrogen). i can't prove any of that, so its just my thoughts and opinions - not scientific fact.

i'm an ecto, and i can drop out of PCT after two weeks and be perfectly fine. that may be a genetic thing, it may not be. of course i've never messed with the big boys (M1T or SD), so maybe i'd need 4 weeks to recover from them.

this would be an awesome study for someone to do with different PH's and different body types, and doing bloodwork every week on all of the candidates. i'm almost willing to pay for it myself, and drag a few random friends into a cycle. how much does bloodwork cost anyways?

PCT was not around in arnolds era, and we never heard of moobs in the 70's and early 80's - realistically are we just blowing things out of proportion, or erring on the side of caution?

Hmmm...interesting stuff.....you make a good point
There must have been someone at some point who determined the 4wk SERM PCT. Did it originate from a serms invented purpose of breast cancer treatment:aargh:
I wonder......

 

[dg806]

Good question....althought PCT isn't always 4 weeks... right.
The length(of PCT) is based upon the PH one uses(and its dosage potency), the amount of time you are running it and its reaction to the individual taking it. Some people can, possibly, get away with less PCT while some people need more PCT.

Not official, but just my 2 cents:thumbsup:

Dead on. IMO, alot of the time 4 weeks is not enough, and I would go at least 6. Maybe 8. Listen to your body.

 

[Jetta]

Dead on. IMO, alot of the time 4 weeks is not enough, and I would go at least 6. Maybe 8. Listen to your body.

Listen to your body but a blood test is a good call too. The number are there are they are not. Of course, I'm finding that I undergo an inquisition every time I ask my doc to run hormone panels...Ahhh. Damn insurance companies. I'm telling her now that I'll pay myself. SUcks that you can't just walk into any C-lab and pay for any blood test you want.

 

[tnick7]

I would guess because some studies show SERMs take 3-4 weeks to increase testosterone.

That is why for something like Epi I would dose Nolva 20/20/10/10 for appropriate recovery. Maybe 40/20/20/20 for a much more suppressive cycle like SD, and maybe 40/20/20/20/20 for longer suppression e.g 12 weeks test @ 500mg.

IMO OTC PCT's should be run longer than 4 weeks. They are inferior methods of recovery.

 

[partyman43]

Sorry RB.....I think it might be my fault that this thread strayed a little(ha,ha):fart:

 

[partyman43]

I would guess because some studies show SERMs take 3-4 weeks to increase testosterone.

That is why for something like Epi I would dose Nolva 20/20/10/10 for appropriate recovery. Maybe 40/20/20/20 for a much more suppressive cycle like SD, and maybe 40/20/20/20/20 for longer suppression e.g 12 weeks test @ 500mg.

IMO OTC PCT's should be run longer than 4 weeks. They are inferior methods of recovery.

If they truly are inferior than 10 years won't make a difference:goodpost::toofunny:

 

[dg806]

Listen to your body but a blood test is a good call too.

Absolutely. Your body can't tell when your lipids are out of whack. That is why they call a heart attack the silent killer. But you can normally tell if you are not fully recovered by how you recover from workouts or energy in the gym. It's a tight line to walk.

 

[RoadBlocK]

Thanks for all the replys, definitely some good info here, and some food for thought.

ALSO:

I would guess because some studies show SERMs take 3-4 weeks to increase testosterone.

Any links to these studies, I would very much like to read the full text.

 

[dg806]

Thanks for all the replys, definitely some good info here, and some food for thought.

ALSO:



Any links to these studies, I would very much like to read the full text.

I'm sure if you search pubmed you can find some.

 

[delsolrob]

I don't know who decided that 4 weeks was the standard, but I have some thoghts on the topic...

first, what's the point of PCT:

• aids in keeping your gains from the cycle
• jumpstarts natural testosterone production - reduces all potential sides associated with low test...depression, etc.
• reduces the potential of estrogen rebound-gyno

I'll admit that bullet 1 is a function of bullet 2

how many people out there have run a cycle without PCT and been fine...there are a few folks out there that got lucky! the reason for this is that your body should go back to homeostasis on it's own...eventually! The problem with "eventually" is that there is a timeframe in there where test levels are low and estrogen is high...not a good situation! PCT should be designed to give your body a really good push in the right direction and minimize the risks associated with the state that your cycle has put your body into.

However, the chances are that your body will not be in homeostasis when you get out of PCT! A very important part of PCT (if that's what you want to call this phaze) is OFF Time!

during PCT you're tricking the HPTA into creating test by making your body think that you need more estrogen (makes more testosterone so that it can be converted to estrogen), maybe you're using an AI to suppress estrogen even more...reducing estrogen too much can make you feel horrible!

my point is that feeling isn't going to tell you if you've recovered and that it's not the function of PCT to make your hormone profiles perfect, but to push them in the right direction so that it doesn't take too much time for them to completely recover.

I'm at work and wrote this very fast...forgive me if it doesn't make complete sense.