get a serm, there's no excuse (newbs read this!)

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    get a serm, there's no excuse (newbs read this!)


    i'm new to the board and just wanted to post a thread for the newbs(which i am) about nolva/clomid/tor as a serm. i see alot of people buying the cycle of their choice, starting them, and then wondering about otc pct, where their balls/gains went, why their moobs (man boobs) leak, or if they should have nolva, or how to get it. i may be new to this,but common sense would tell me to you get your pct sorted first, and then look into what cycle to do. and as for the difficulty in acquiring nolva/clomid/tor etc, stop being silly about it being prescription only, and its too hard to get. i have been reading on here a few months, and decided to try and get the most difficult buy first, ie: nolva. suprisingly, it took about 20 minutes of googling and a credit card, and i now have 2 pct's worth of nolva in my hands. total time: 20 minutes searching, 3 days waiting for the post, and about 10 seconds opening the said post.it is unbelievebly easy, just put the effort in. i still have no intention of doing a cycle any time soon, but at least i know i have a decent serm ready just in case. bottom line. don't rely on otc pct, a serm is as simple to acquire as m-drol or 6-oxo, or whatever else you choose to use. be smart, get your serm, cover your bases, then buy your m-drol, i don't think they'll sell out anytime soon.

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    Getting a SERM is not as difficult as some people make it out to be. The entire process should take less than a week, shipping included. Find another source if it takes any longer! I still keep reading "I've been waiting for almost a month", etc. Someone with 2 posts is saying it's easy.....time for everyone to stop making it into a big ordeal. Good post!
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    as well, when someone tells you to try google, or search, don't get all pissy and think they're being a smart-ass,give it a try! its the best advice someone can give you.
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    Don't spout this serm-only rhetoric please. Full recovery is completely attainable for most cycles using OTC products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k2ser View Post
    Getting a SERM is not as difficult as some people make it out to be. The entire process should take less than a week, shipping included. Find another source if it takes any longer! I still keep reading "I've been waiting for almost a month", etc. Someone with 2 posts is saying it's easy.....time for everyone to stop making it into a big ordeal. Good post!
    The company I get research chemicals gets me them in 4 days.
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    i'm not spouting a 'serm only' approach, i'm justy verifying what seems to be in the majority for pct. people obviously choose a serm for a reason...it works. over the counter is fine, if thats what you want to do then great, but alot of the products are new to the market, and can be confusing in terms of what does what. there's only one name for nolvadex or clomid.otc can also be included with a serm for a more well rounded pct.i'll include otc products in my pct as well i'm sure. i'm simply saying that a serm seems to be the most effective and clinically reliable form of pct,and if your new to designers like me, and insist on superdrol or phera as a first cycle(not me personally),wouldn't you want to have the most effective/strongest pct just in case, whether you use it or not? there's no excuse not to have a serm if you really want one. alot of people say they want one but can't find it/ don't know how to get it. if you want one, its out there en masse, just don't expect it to be wrapped up and given to you..... i'm not saying everyone get a serm and go nuts with a superdrol/m1t/phera stack! or whatever you want, there obviously is a level or responsibility implied as well.
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    I agree there are compounds out the that no SERM is needed h-drol being one of them. Here is a link to check out on OTC PCT.

    http://www.otcpct.com
    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
    http://twitter.com/#!/TeamAISports
    http://www.facebook.com/AISportsNutrition
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    FWIW many folks do not like to toy with the legal gray area that is research chemicals
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    It largely depends on a few factors, such as the compound(s) used, cycle length, and dosing of compound(s).

    There are MANY more compounds overall that require a SERM in pct than not. Anabolic Innovations "Post Cycle Support" is a great OTC PCT product that i hightly recommend.

    It works well for PCT from certain compounds like Halodrol as pembroke stated.

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    Get a serm!
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    Don't spout this serm-only rhetoric please. Full recovery is completely attainable for most cycles using OTC products.

    Thank you...........After seeing some IForce Reversitol bloodwork......there is not a doubt in my mind.

    "MOST CYCLES"
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Get a serm!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    Don't spout this serm-only rhetoric please. Full recovery is completely attainable for most cycles using OTC products.
    Have fun with breasts.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Have fun with breasts.
    Lol!

    Boobies!!!

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    i understand the doubt with gray market, but its seemed pretty easy to find 10mg tabs of nolva (15.2mg as tamoxifan citrate)in 100 tab packs.from this one experience it seemes that even avoiding research nolva was fairly straight forward, even with having to go through customs.
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    lets remember.

    SERM does not equate to "no boobies".

    And vice versa.

    NO SERM does not equate to "boobies".

    Facts gentlemen, Facts.

    I have L-tor sitting next to me. I dont hate research chems, but i dont think they are "The Almighty Pct" and shall be no other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Have fun with breasts.
    You neg me accusing me of saying a SERM is not necessary in order to sell products..? Last I checked our company does not sell PCT products.

    Read my post thoroughly before you spout your nonsense.

    "Most cycles"

    That being said I've seen bloodwork results from OTC PCT recovering from SD and M1T cycles. I do bloodwork before and after every cycle I run and have never had an issue. I use OTC products 90% of the time. It is possible. Your out of your skull if you think otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    You neg me accusing me of saying a SERM is not necessary in order to sell products..? Last I checked our company does not sell PCT products.

    Read my post thoroughly before you spout your nonsense.

    "Most cycles"

    That being said I've seen bloodwork results from OTC PCT recovering from SD and M1T cycles. I do bloodwork before and after every cycle I run and have never had an issue. I use OTC products 90% of the time. It is possible. Your out of your skull if you think otherwise.

    wow...... Something personal brewing here guys?

    There is legitimate arguments for both sides of this SERM vs OTC debate.

    I think it is a personal choice, ONCE one is familiar with both OTC and SERM based Post cycle therapies and there individual ramifications.

    Cant we all just get along?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    wow...... Something personal brewing here guys?

    There is legitimate arguments for both sides of this SERM vs OTC debate.

    I think it is a personal choice, ONCE one is familiar with both OTC and SERM based Post cycle therapies and there individual ramifications.

    Cant we all just get along?
    I have my side and my belief that a SERM is not always necessary. I don't like being accused of taking that side to sell products when my company doesnt even make PCT products. Its not a big deal though.

    A big problem is that many people do not know how to run proper OTC protocols.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    You neg me accusing me of saying a SERM is not necessary in order to sell products..? Last I checked our company does not sell PCT products.

    Read my post thoroughly before you spout your nonsense.

    "Most cycles"

    That being said I've seen bloodwork results from OTC PCT recovering from SD and M1T cycles. I do bloodwork before and after every cycle I run and have never had an issue. I use OTC products 90% of the time. It is possible. Your out of your skull if you think otherwise.
    I'd think REAL hard before being bold enough to say "Spout your nonesense". You've put your damn foot in your mouth so many times it isn't funny.

    It's seriously a GOOD thing CEL has Ziquor as a competent rep, because you clearly don't have a damn clue what you're talking about the majority of the time.

    You're more than deserving of my negs, enjoy dumbazz!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    You neg me accusing me of saying a SERM is not necessary in order to sell products..? Last I checked our company does not sell PCT products.

    Read my post thoroughly before you spout your nonsense.

    "Most cycles"

    That being said I've seen bloodwork results from OTC PCT recovering from SD and M1T cycles. I do bloodwork before and after every cycle I run and have never had an issue. I use OTC products 90% of the time. It is possible. Your out of your skull if you think otherwise.
    It's really a shame a company like cel had to settle for a substandard rep like yourself. Here's a little tip kid, as a rep you need to conduct yourself a TAD more professional...because now you are making CEL look as foolish as you are. Take a drink from your sippy cup and grow up little boy.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    Don't spout this serm-only rhetoric please. Full recovery is completely attainable for most cycles using OTC products.
    Prove it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Prove it.
    Exactly.

    This should be fun. *gets popcorn*

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    I would have to disagree with MOST cycles not needing a SERM. If you're able to fully recover on a harsh cycle like M1T, in a minimal or equivilent time using an OTC, I would like to see proof. Ive tried the no SERM approach using OTC (having SERM on standby) and it was a night and day result, in my personal experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    I would have to disagree with MOST cycles not needing a SERM. If you're able to fully recover on a harsh cycle like M1T, in a minimal or equivilent time using an OTC, I would like to see proof. Ive tried the no SERM approach using OTC (having SERM on standby) and it was a night and day result, in my personal experience.
    The whole OTC PCT thing is a scam, IMO. No herb is going to bring me back, or block esrto rebound like a SERM. The only herb that I would even consider while in PCT shows up on drug test, so that's a no no...

    OTC therapy for M1T? OUCH! Say buh-bye nuts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    I have my side and my belief that a SERM is not always necessary. I don't like being accused of taking that side to sell products when my company doesnt even make PCT products. Its not a big deal though.

    A big problem is that many people do not know how to run proper OTC protocols.
    Really now......then educate us oh great guru?

    Pardon the laughter that surely permeates the air in the process (Many fold).

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    i have to agree with the above few posts here. serms are clinically proven with research to back it that they are effective, and they work. maybe not 100% of the time, but well enough to be extremely effective and popular. otc is more of a grey area to me than serms personally. 1 day a product is there, the next its been discontinued. then 1 company makes a good product, so 10 other companies use the same name and add an apostrophe or an 'extreme' on the end to try and make some money as well.'novadex xt' comes to mind here incidently. there's a million and 1 otc products to do the job of one serm, and some otc crap doesn't really do any job at all. it just seems that a serm is the simple, effective,logical way to go about it. why buy 10 bottles of otc for god knows how much, when all you need is maybe a serm and a couple other otc products to support it? otc has its uses; cycle support is essential, as are other things, but to try and compete with scientifically manufactured treatments that have years and years of research behind them, is a bit much. this is why someone new to designers like myself would go for a serm in my opinion. researching otc pct is overwhelming, everybody uses different things, so you just end up more confused. this does this, that does that,that does this but not that, and that won't do this, but it'll help with those. a serm is a serm, there's no confusing what its designed for, what is used for, and how to use it. thats pretty safe and simple in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Really now......then educate us oh great guru?

    Pardon the laughter that surely permeates the air in the process (Many fold).
    OTC protocals? Whatever...
    Some supplements have their place (IN) PCT, but in NO WAY should one be the BASIS of PCT. SERM(period)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    FWIW many folks do not like to toy with the legal gray area that is research chemicals
    WOW, Usf97j4x4......i have read many of your posts, and your quite knowledgeable on many subjects, you know your stuff. but i have to ask you to check your estro level ASAP(i say that out of concern) WTF are you talking about? Many folks? who, no one i know. i'm not trying to piss you off, or talk down or bad about you, but dam man, if we start telling people who are taking sdrol or whatever that OTC works for most cycles, we might wind up with a bunch of newbies w/"chest-tecules". listen my point is this, and always has been, have a serm first, use it if you need to, not just because you have it. OTC does not work for all compounds, not all people, not all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    OTC protocals? Whatever...
    Some supplements have their place (IN) PCT, but in NO WAY should one be the BASIS of PCT. SERM(period)
    I know, but the "guru" said we didn't know what we're doing.

    Sad, on so many levels.

    Edit: Not only that, but he altered a PM after making fun of dsade's "Russell The Mussell". Class all the way there.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I know, but the "guru" said we didn't know what we're doing.

    Sad, on so many levels.

    Edit: Not only that, but he altered a PM after making fun of dsade's "Russell The Mussell". Class all the way there.....
    Altered - WTF?
    That's not cool.

    And about the gray area of RC... I hope you realize that most of the products that are repped for CEL fall in to that gray area. Hell, everything is gray in the BB world!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Altered - WTF?
    That's not cool.

    And about the gray area of RC... I hope you realize that most of the products that are repped for CEL fall in to that gray area. Hell, everything is gray in the BB world!
    Yeah, and i can prove it, that's the best part. This clown made fun of a childrens book (Russel The Mussel). Wow!

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    going through menopause must be hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    going through menopause must be hard.
    Just being a b*tch must be hard...
    I mean, who knocks a educational kids book?
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    Not everyone is strong enough to be a father, or possibly try to understand anything about kids. signing off now, to spend sometime with my daughter, and put her to bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Just being a b*tch must be hard...
    I mean, who knocks a educational kids book?
    The best part is he screwed up to no end in the process. He altered the thought in my bracket when it was supposed to be in his as a "savior" response.

    What a gem man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    That being said I've seen bloodwork results from OTC PCT recovering from SD and M1T cycles. I do bloodwork before and after every cycle I run and have never had an issue. I use OTC products 90% of the time. It is possible. Your out of your skull if you think otherwise.
    Where's the proof prophet?

    We still have yet to see your seemingly failed "points" of reference........

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    by your avi trauma...you need some sperm..ahem SERM i mean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Where's the proof prophet?

    We still have yet to see your seemingly failed "points" of reference........
    I think he's referring to Voodoo's results on another site. I'm not going to touch this one too much, but I've gone both ways with harsh compounds. SERMs vs. OTC is like night and day as Jayhawk said earlier(with SERMs being the best route to take). I'd also probably say that people should wait and see if there ever is any bloodwork from someone who is not affiliated with a supplement company before claiming a new OTC product with old ingredients works. Just my $00.02 about everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    people should wait and see if there ever is any bloodwork from someone who is not affiliated with a supplement company before claiming an OTC product works.
    izza:
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