**bloodwork In**need "expert" Advice On Restart Protocol/test Increase**

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    Exclamation **Bloodwork In**need "expert" Advice On Restart Protocol/test Increase**


    Over a year ago I did a cycle that shut me down pretty bad. I unfortunately had a really bad case of food poisoning/stomach flu like symptoms for well over a week. This week fell on the week of starting pct. Well its been over a year and my test levels aren't the greatest, but they aren't the best either. I am turning 26 next month, getting married on top of that and my libido is in the gutter. I have read numerous blogs from "Leanguy" and "King" stating how they started a clomid regimine everday for roughly 4-6 weeks at roughly 25 mg per day. I was wondering if I should do the same and add some other ancillary products along with the clomid (diesel test/activate extreme, and AI??) I went to my physician 2 months ago and she prescribed me androgel. The androgel worked to get my energy levels back to a decent but not awesome level, yet my libido has lagged considerably. I can go 3-6 days without even having the desire to have any sexual contact. I was wondering what I could do to restart and kick my pituatary back in working order. I have tried natural supplements for my libido and even did a nolvadex protocol this past december due to a board members suggestion. Both did helped a little temporarily to get everything in working order.

    I went to an Endocrinologist 2 weeks ago and he said that my test levels were "in range". Needless to say I beg the differ as it takes an act of congress to get it up and going. The "boys" are also not hanging low and I seem to be detached from them. Its almost like I'm having an out of body experience. Please help and let me know what type of protocol I need to start in order to get my stuff in working order again. I need to get everything back into normalcy before I take the plunge this november. Below are my test results. One love from NYC.

    Total Test: 518 NG/DL Expected Range: 240-950
    Free Test: 13.00 Expected Range: 9-30
    Bioavailable Test: 130 Expected Range: 83-257

    DHEA SULFATE : 231 Expected Range: 110-510 mcg/dL
    T-4, Free : 1.0 Expected Range: 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
    TSH, 3rd Generation: 2.03 Expected Range: .40-4.50 miU/L
    PSA , Total :0.2 Expected Range: less then or = 4.0
    Last edited by JoshNyce; 07-30-2008 at 01:10 AM. Reason: info changed

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    What was the cycle composed of specifically?


    Your blood work doesn't show your E2 level. I am not an expert on this BUT I have read a lot of great posts from some guys here at Meso & other Male HRT type forums and "they" often point to E2 as being VERY important in bringing back both desire & function.

    I feel the effect of estrogen on a cycle of test. As it goes to high my desire wanes. If I then use an AI for a few days it comes back strong. If I stay on the AI for too long it goes away again.

    Estrogen is important. "They" seem to indicate that the proper level was in the mid to low 20s. Above and below that caused problems. Most of the best posters have moved on to other forums but their old posts which cover a lot of this are still here.

    I don't want to diminish the "advise" you have received in your other thread...but JanSz has always impressed me and he still posts in that forum.

    There are plenty of ways to approach this...


    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet as I have my bloodwork to post. But basically, over a year ago I did a cycle that shut me down pretty bad. I unfortunately had a really bad case of food poisoning/stomach flu like symptoms for well over a week. This week fell on the week of starting pct. Well its been over a year and my test levels aren't the greatest, but they aren't the best either. I am turning 26 next month, getting married on top of that and my libido is in the gutter. I have read numerous blogs from "Leanguy" and "King" stating how they started a clomid regimine everday for roughly 4-6 weeks at roughly 25 mg per day. I was wondering if I should do the same and add some other ancillary products along with the clomid (diesel test/activate extreme, and AI??) I went to my physician 2 months ago and she prescribed me androgel. The androgel worked to get my energy levels back to a decent but not awesome level, yet my libido has lagged considerably. I can go 3-6 days without even having the desire to have any sexual contact. I was wondering what I could do to restart and kick my pituatary back in working order. I have tried natural supplements for my libido and even did a nolvadex protocol this past december due to a board members suggestion. Both did helped a little temporarily to get everything in working order.

    I went to an Endocrinologist 2 weeks ago and he said that my test levels were "in range". Needless to say I beg the differ as it takes an act of congress to get it up and going. The "boys" are also not hanging low and I seem to be detached from them. Its almost like I'm having an out of body experience. Please help and let me know what type of protocol I need to start in order to get my stuff in working order again. I need to get everything back into normalcy before I take the plunge this november. Below are my test results. One love from NYC.

    Total Test: 518 NG/DL Expected Range: 240-950
    Free Test: 13.00 Expected Range: 9-30
    Bioavailable Test: 130 Expected Range: 83-257

    DHEA SULFATE : 231 Expected Range: 110-510 mcg/dL
    T-4, Free : 1.0 Expected Range: 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
    TSH, 3rd Generation: 2.03 Expected Range: .40-4.50 miU/L
    PSA , Total :0.2 Expected Range: less then or = 4.0
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    I agree with the above post. I doubt seriously that the issue is coming from a test level problem. You are well within the normal range. It is most likely an estrogen issue, as a male needs to be within a specific range just like with test to function normally especially sexually. It could also be a totally different issue, libido and performance can be effected by so many issue. Sleep, stress, diet, nutrient deficiency, ect ect ect. With your solid testosterone blood work, I would not recommend trying to self medicate. It is just about impossible for anyone on an internet forum to diagnose this problem without more specific information. You should go see your doctor again.
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    Anyone else think it may be high prolactin levels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Anyone else think it may be high prolactin levels?
    Yes! Thats why I asked what he had used to put him in such a pickle. No pun intended.

    Some of these "prohormones" can be terrible. The worst shutdown of my life came after I had spent a year "playing" with prohormones and then followed it with a test/tren cycle. Unfortunately the tren was WAY overdosed by the UGL and a solid 6 week PCT just didn't bring me back to normal.

    Josh pinch those nipples and look to see it a teeny bit of fluid comes out....sounds gross...is gross...but is fairly common and will tell you immediately if you have a prolactin problem.

    Don't freak it it happens...because that can be fixed. Also if there is no discharge it still doesn't mean there is no prolactin problem.

    Good call on this Reverend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolbandet102 View Post
    I agree with the above post. I doubt seriously that the issue is coming from a test level problem. You are well within the normal range. It is most likely an estrogen issue, as a male needs to be within a specific range just like with test to function normally especially sexually. It could also be a totally different issue, libido and performance can be effected by so many issue. Sleep, stress, diet, nutrient deficiency, ect ect ect. With your solid testosterone blood work, I would not recommend trying to self medicate. It is just about impossible for anyone on an internet forum to diagnose this problem without more specific information. You should go see your doctor again.

    Unfortunately my doctor thinks that it is related to erectile dysfunction .. If it is an estrogen problem should I just ask my endo to retest my estrogen levels. I guess what I am leading up to is what would my endo then suggest if my estrogen comes back way off or is in range? And is there any OTC supplement that I can try in the mean time or a research med that I can get my hands on that combats high E2/estradiol things most of the members have said is most likely my issue?
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Yes! Thats why I asked what he had used to put him in such a pickle. No pun intended.

    Some of these "prohormones" can be terrible. The worst shutdown of my life came after I had spent a year "playing" with prohormones and then followed it with a test/tren cycle. Unfortunately the tren was WAY overdosed by the UGL and a solid 6 week PCT just didn't bring me back to normal.

    Josh pinch those nipples and look to see it a teeny bit of fluid comes out....sounds gross...is gross...but is fairly common and will tell you immediately if you have a prolactin problem.

    Don't freak it it happens...because that can be fixed. Also if there is no discharge it still doesn't mean there is no prolactin problem.

    Good call on this Reverend.

    D,

    I did what you asked and no fluid came out (whew).. i guess going back to your original question I did a 4 week cycle of halodrol, then about 2 months later I did a 4 week cycle of Xmass by Generic Labz.. like i said Pct was jacked up due to my illness... I guess without seeing my endo or doctor again I wont know for sure if its my estrogen levels. What I am most concerned about is the run around I am getting from these so called "experts". I can feel that I am not too far off to normalcy. My energy levels are fine, my workouts are strong..just one facet of my life is bunk and its an impt. one..If you were in my shoes and it was your last ditch effort to fix yourself without going to doctors what would you do? Is there a safe natural alternative out there that can lower or stablize these estrogen issues? Or should I try another route? Thanks again bro.
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    Hmm...those cycles dont sound too crazy to me. I'm not sure if anyone else would agree with me on this, and I am not an expert by any means, but I have taken a lot of stuff, and had myself shut down pretty hard before, and one of the best things for me personally was to add in topical formestane, I used to use E-Form, but I'm not sure that it is manufactured any more. E-Form and a very low dose of cialis every 2nd or 3rd day was always part of my pct to keep my libido and 'function' normal. My GF never noticed anything out of the ordinary ; )

    Good luck man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    D,

    I did what you asked and no fluid came out (whew).. i guess going back to your original question I did a 4 week cycle of halodrol, then about 2 months later I did a 4 week cycle of Xmass by Generic Labz.. like i said Pct was jacked up due to my illness... I guess without seeing my endo or doctor again I wont know for sure if its my estrogen levels. What I am most concerned about is the run around I am getting from these so called "experts". I can feel that I am not too far off to normalcy. My energy levels are fine, my workouts are strong..just one facet of my life is bunk and its an impt. one..If you were in my shoes and it was your last ditch effort to fix yourself without going to doctors what would you do? Is there a safe natural alternative out there that can lower or stablize these estrogen issues? Or should I try another route? Thanks again bro.
    I would try obtaining some Cabergoline. It helps lower prolactin which in turn helps elevate one's libido. Do a search on the board and read up on various dosing protocols.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Unfortunately my doctor thinks that it is related to erectile dysfunction .. If it is an estrogen problem should I just ask my endo to retest my estrogen levels. I guess what I am leading up to is what would my endo then suggest if my estrogen comes back way off or is in range? And is there any OTC supplement that I can try in the mean time or a research med that I can get my hands on that combats high E2/estradiol things most of the members have said is most likely my issue?
    I can't say 100% if it is an estrogen problem, or if even its a high estrogen problem. It could very well be a low estrogen problem, without blood work I don't know. If it is a high estrogen problem I would suggest an AI and maybe clomid for further HTPA up regulation. However if the problem is low estrogen then this could possibly make the problem worse. It could also be a prolactin issue as mentioned above, but with lack of prolactin type sides present other then the libido issue itself this seems unlikely now too. I really think you should just get the blood work done for your estro and prolactin levels. Once you have these we all could help you much better. Self medicating a non-existing problem could make the actual problem much worse. To answer your question about the last ditch effort though I would try medium dosed clomid along with either p-5-p or mega dosed B-6 in order to attempt to get HTPA regulated and to address any prolactin elevation that may be present. I still believe that you should get those levels checked first then attempt to self medicate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolbandet102 View Post
    ...To answer your question about the last ditch effort though I would try medium dosed clomid along with either p-5-p or mega dosed B-6 in order to attempt to get HTPA regulated and to address any prolactin elevation that may be present. I still believe that you should get those levels checked first then attempt to self medicate.
    Josh you've gotten some good advice here in this thread & from Nolbandet. B-6 doesn't have to be mega-dosed to be effective if prolactin is a mild but inhibiting problem...it can be effective...it was for me at eliminating nip drip at one time so it probably will help for lesser prolactin problems.

    In addition low dose Clomid therapy for a period of time will not hurt IMHO.

    IGF-1 LR3 can have a positive restorative effect. Just a low dose cycle of IGF-1 for several weeks can be effective.

    There was a time when I wouldn't run a PCT w/o it. ...now for me insulin has the same effect as does CJC-1295/GHRP-6.

    In fact when I was shutdown really bad for many months as I mentioned above a standalone 30 day run of IGF-1 LR3 brought me back.
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    Alright, so I got the bloodwork done that everyone requested so that ya'll could get a better picture of how to assist me. Like I said before, everything appears to be fine but my libido. Its not completely shot, but it isn't where it should be or once was. The endo told me that my levels appear to be "ok" and that if I continue to have problems to go to a urologist. I appreciate everyone's input through this problem I have been dealing with for months. Now is the time to come up with a game plan/regimine to get it going again. I would like to hear your recommendations on what I should take/dosages etc. etc…. Here are my results along with the testosterone bloodwork from above.


    FSH: 3.4 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.5 - 14.0
    LH: 4.6 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.0 - 9.0
    Prolactin: 9.5 NG/ML Expected Range: 3.0 - 30.0
    Estradiol: 14.9 PG/ML Expected Range: 10 - 42
    Estrone: 34.1 PG/ML Expected Range: 9 - 36
    Total Estrogens: 49.0 PG/ML Expected Range: 19 - 69
    IGF-1: 178 NG/ML Expected Range: 116 - 358
    Aldosterone: 14.0 NG/DL Expected Range: 4.0 - 31.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Alright, so I got the bloodwork done that everyone requested so that ya'll could get a better picture of how to assist me. Like I said before, everything appears to be fine but my libido. Its not completely shot, but it isn't where it should be or once was. The endo told me that my levels appear to be "ok" and that if I continue to have problems to go to a urologist. I appreciate everyone's input through this problem I have been dealing with for months. Now is the time to come up with a game plan/regimine to get it going again. I would like to hear your recommendations on what I should take/dosages etc. etc…. Here are my results along with the testosterone bloodwork from above.


    FSH: 3.4 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.5 - 14.0
    LH: 4.6 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.0 - 9.0
    Prolactin: 9.5 NG/ML Expected Range: 3.0 - 30.0
    Estradiol: 14.9 PG/ML Expected Range: 10 - 42
    Estrone: 34.1 PG/ML Expected Range: 9 - 36
    Total Estrogens: 49.0 PG/ML Expected Range: 19 - 69
    IGF-1: 178 NG/ML Expected Range: 116 - 358
    Aldosterone: 14.0 NG/DL Expected Range: 4.0 - 31.0

    Well this looks pretty good to me. Nothing seems out of range but I'm not a pro when it comes to reading bloodwork. The only thing that seems a tad high is Estrone. Not sure if that plays a part in libido whatsoever. (waiting to hear other peoples opinions)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Alright, so I got the bloodwork done that everyone requested so that ya'll could get a better picture of how to assist me. Like I said before, everything appears to be fine but my libido. Its not completely shot, but it isn't where it should be or once was. The endo told me that my levels appear to be "ok" and that if I continue to have problems to go to a urologist. I appreciate everyone's input through this problem I have been dealing with for months. Now is the time to come up with a game plan/regimine to get it going again. I would like to hear your recommendations on what I should take/dosages etc. etc…. Here are my results along with the testosterone bloodwork from above.


    FSH: 3.4 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.5 - 14.0
    LH: 4.6 MIU/ML Expected Range: 1.0 - 9.0
    Prolactin: 9.5 NG/ML Expected Range: 3.0 - 30.0
    Estradiol: 14.9 PG/ML Expected Range: 10 - 42
    Estrone: 34.1 PG/ML Expected Range: 9 - 36
    Total Estrogens: 49.0 PG/ML Expected Range: 19 - 69
    IGF-1: 178 NG/ML Expected Range: 116 - 358
    Aldosterone: 14.0 NG/DL Expected Range: 4.0 - 31.0
    Estradiol is not in the libido sweet spot (something like low to mid 20's).

    See the section on Estrogen: http://www.renewyouth.com/sexhormones.shtml

    "Estrogen is important in men for healthy function of the brain and libido...Estradiol Serum Optimal Levels = 20-30 pg/mi "

    To raise levels see: PATENT: Method of male sexual enhancement

    "If the free testosterone and free estradiol levels of a particular male patient is determined to be low, the method of the present invention is utilized to raise the free testosterone and free estradiol levels of the patient to the normal range. Once the testosterone and estradiol levels are elevated to within normal ranges, drugs prescribed to promote the erectile process work more effectively."

    " {SNIP - raising of test method & composition of H-cream} ...In accordance with the invention, to raise estradiol levels, estradiol is mixed with H-based cream to facilitate the transdermal administration thereof. More specifically, 3 milligrams of estradiol is mixed with 1 cc of H-based cream. Alternative to using the foregoing cream, commercially available Estrasorb® cream, manufactured by Novavax Pharmaceutical, may be used. H-based estradiol cream is administered by applying 1 cc thereof to the skin of the forearms or inner thighs once daily. Two packets of Estrasorb® cream is administered to the forearms or inner thighs once daily.

    The progress of the treatment protocol is monitored by periodic retesting of the patient's free testosterone and free estradiol levels. The results achieved by means of the present method include: increased effectiveness of the prescription drugs Viagra®, Levitra®, and Cialis®, reduction or elimination of erectile dysfunction problems, increased libido, reduced fatigue, and reduction or elimination of depression."

    Talk to your doctor about optimizing estradiol via the method described in the patent. He has the tools to remedy your problem.
  

  
 

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