[Boyders]

I'm curious as to who here has actually stayed shutdown, gotten gyno or other post PS/PH complications while using PCS or Stoked with a good OTC PCT in place of an actual SERM?

If so, what cycle did you run, what support supps and what PCT?

I'm specifically looking for cases in which a GOOD OTC PCT has been in place and it hasn't worked to restart HPTA, recover libido and natty test levels.

EDIT: Nevermind, I move it.

[TheAnimalG]

Why not ask in general: Did ANY PCT fail you?

I bet there's just as many stories of people using SERMs and still having issues after a cycle.

[Boyders]

Well I'm trying to ascertain whether OTC PCT is as effective as using the real deal. Now and then you do come across someone who has used a proper PCT and still had problems but those are fairly rare

On all these posts all I read is people telling others that they MUST have a SERM on hand and another group that doesn't want to risk further sides and hepatic issues using tamox or torem or clomid or whatever, or can't get a SERM.

And so, I'd like enough answers to the question to establish a pattern: Does the OTC PCT work just as well as SERM PCT or not?

[Nolbandet102]

I have used nolva(SERM) alone and atd(OTC) alone(back when people thought atd was gods gift to the world). Neither PCT let me down in the sense that I had long lasting side effects or anything. I am in PCT right now and I think I have found what works best for me and most likely others. OTC + SERM PCT. Both routes have advantages and disadvantages over one another. I am running Post Cycle Support alongside nolva right now. This makes me feel ok about running nolva at a low dose so to avoid more liver toxicity and IMO enough estrogen is modulated to prevent gyno. I am also using Powerful to combat prolactin and to get the host of other benefits it provides. I am following this with a tappered AI to prevent any rebound. ALong with the AI I will be running some kind of free test booster so it will be like a PCT bridge to a NH stack. This type of PCT is a hybrid of what is recommended by the OTC promoters on this board mixed with advice from SERM fanatics.

To answer the poll question no OTC PCT did not let me down.

[lonewolf0420]

Originally Posted by Nolbandet102

I have used nolva(SERM) alone and atd(OTC) alone(back when people thought atd was gods gift to the world). Neither PCT let me down in the sense that I had long lasting side effects or anything. I am in PCT right now and I think I have found what works best for me and most likely others. OTC + SERM PCT. Both routes have advantages and disadvantages over one another. I am running Post Cycle Support alongside nolva right now. This makes me feel ok about running nolva at a low dose so to avoid more liver toxicity and IMO enough estrogen is modulated to prevent gyno. I am also using Powerful to combat prolactin and to get the host of other benefits it provides. I am following this with a tappered AI to prevent any rebound. ALong with the AI I will be running some kind of free test booster so it will be like a PCT bridge to a NH stack. This type of PCT is a hybrid of what is recommended by the OTC promoters on this board mixed with advice from SERM fanatics.

To answer the poll question no OTC PCT did not let me down.

What AI are you planning on following up with?

[Nolbandet102]

I will probably use 6-oxo, because ATD is absolutely garbage for PCT IMO, and I'm real undecided on 6-bromo. I personally think that a pretty high dose of 6-bromo would be needed to get enough steroid like binding at androgen receptors to cause HTPA suppression that has been a topic of discussion as of late, but I don't know if I want to take the chance.

[Boyders]

So not one person has had complications when using a solid OTC PCT? That's really saying a lot for AI products

[pembroke3355]

I always suggest having a SERM on hand for any cycle period because we all react differently to these compounds. I believe that a Post Cycle Support or Stoked pct with compounds such as epi, havoc or h-drol and other such as Furazadrol or 3 ad is a safe pct.

Have there been problems? I am sure there have like I said we all react differently to these steriods but there also has been problems with people using SERMS because of the same reason. Being prone to gyno also plays a part.

For multiple orals or stuff like m-drol, Phera,m1t, d-drol and some of these other double or triple methyls it would not be wise to run just Post Cycle Support or Stoked but running it with a SERM can be very effective.

It all comes down to the fact that each of us need to make our on pct choices and research what we are taking. I will leave you with this.

http://www.otcpct.com

[Erekose]

I ran a PCS SERM after stopping a Epidrol cycle due to gyno coming on while ON.
My levels tested out OK, but I got a nice rock behind my right nipple. I'm on letro now...

[bigdude08]

I ran a 4 week cycle of Epistane(IBE) using all the supports, Had a very good cycle, never felt so good before in my life. Gains were great, energy was great, I was also stacking it with USP labs Powerfull (great Stuff) and USP labs anabolic pump(great stuff). Did some research on epistane and didn't really think it would be that harsh and that an OTC pct would cover me. By the way i was doing 1pill a day for the first 2weeks, followed by 2 pills a day for the last 2 weeks. Going into my pct I felt great.

The Key supps in my PCT were PCS and 6-OXO everything else was just supports that I can list later if needed. I contemplated using a SERM, but I heard alot of talk about PCS being created specifically for Epistane.

Week 1-3 of PCT= Everything was still great, no loss in gains, no gyno, still had a very good mood.

Week 4- Did chest workout, came home from the gym, looked in the mirror and noticed Unilateral swelling, thought maybe i pulled something since this happened so quickly, but then went to sleep, and woke up with terrible pain in nips, and i then immediately knew it was gyno.

Ordered letrozole, it arrived 2 days later and also nolva. Started letro, and about 3 days later the pain was gone, about 80% of the puffyness is still there 2 weeks later. No lump, just soft man boob puffiness. Was really pissed off for a few weeks, blaming PCS, 6 OXO, IBE. Then while laying on the bench doing struggling to get 240 up without breaking my elbows because of all the joint discomfort from the letro, it dawned on me:

1.Normal balance of Test vs Estro: (Just numbers to simply this)
T=100, E=60

2. Add a PH then it looks something like this:
T=170, so body raises E to balance things out so E=130

3. Drop PH and use a Natty test booster
T=120, E=130 (Natural test booster can't compete with the high level my estro was at due to using Epistane.

4. Using a SERM would have probably prevented all this from happening since SERMs have estrogen antagonist activity in breast tissue but shows estrogen-like activity in other tissues. Meaning I could have kept some Estro where needed, but blocked it in my chest where not needed, and no over the counter drug is strong enough to really do this adequately.

So in my attempts to try and stay OTC, I ended up getting to experience the great feelings of depression, joint discomfort, destroyed libido, a man boob, severe mood swings, and probably going to get a chance to hang out with a plastic surgeon and spend about 5grand.

On the brighter side, at least I saved $20 bucks using OTC rather than Serming to begin with.

[pembroke3355]

Originally Posted by bigdude08

I ran a 4 week cycle of Epistane(IBE) using all the supports, Had a very good cycle, never felt so good before in my life. Gains were great, energy was great, I was also stacking it with USP labs Powerfull (great Stuff) and USP labs anabolic pump(great stuff). Did some research on epistane and didn't really think it would be that harsh and that an OTC pct would cover me. By the way i was doing 1pill a day for the first 2weeks, followed by 2 pills a day for the last 2 weeks. Going into my pct I felt great.

The Key supps in my PCT were PCS and 6-OXO everything else was just supports that I can list later if needed. I contemplated using a SERM, but I heard alot of talk about PCS being created specifically for Epistane.

Week 1-3 of PCT= Everything was still great, no loss in gains, no gyno, still had a very good mood.

Week 4- Did chest workout, came home from the gym, looked in the mirror and noticed Unilateral swelling, thought maybe i pulled something since this happened so quickly, but then went to sleep, and woke up with terrible pain in nips, and i then immediately knew it was gyno.

Ordered letrozole, it arrived 2 days later and also nolva. Started letro, and about 3 days later the pain was gone, about 80% of the puffyness is still there 2 weeks later. No lump, just soft man boob puffiness. Was really pissed off for a few weeks, blaming PCS, 6 OXO, IBE. Then while laying on the bench doing struggling to get 240 up without breaking my elbows because of all the joint discomfort from the letro, it dawned on me:

1.Normal balance of Test vs Estro: (Just numbers to simply this)
T=100, E=60

2. Add a PH then it looks something like this:
T=170, so body raises E to balance things out so E=130

3. Drop PH and use a Natty test booster
T=120, E=130 (Natural test booster can't compete with the high level my estro was at due to using Epistane.

4. Using a SERM would have probably prevented all this from happening since SERMs have estrogen antagonist activity in breast tissue but shows estrogen-like activity in other tissues. Meaning I could have kept some Estro where needed, but blocked it in my chest where not needed, and no over the counter drug is strong enough to really do this adequately.

So in my attempts to try and stay OTC, I ended up getting to experience the great feelings of depression, joint discomfort, destroyed libido, a man boob, severe mood swings, and probably going to get a chance to hang out with a plastic surgeon and spend about 5grand.

On the brighter side, at least I saved $20 bucks using OTC rather than Serming to begin with.

Sorry to hear it bro. A serm might have stopped it might not. You never should run any cycle without having a serm on hand. Many people can do a OTC PCT just fine with epi and in your case you could not. For any cycle a SERM should be kept on hand because we all react differently to these compounds.

[Boyders]

That's interesting reading bigdude. You are the first to respond negatively to OTC PCT and it sounds like you did it the right way. Thanks a lot for sharing, sorry to hear about the negs..

[foxracer96]

you should use a serm, i felt much better after pct when using a serm apposed to not using one..

[xxLAMBOFGODxx]

I only used a non-otc pct recently on my pp cycle (liquid clomid) and i got big headaches and felt like pukin alot i had to force myself to workout, i don't get it my doses were less than normal, it got me back to normal but the otc's do that with less sides some are total crap but i got the ones most people use like formadrol, 6oxo and ES3.

[guyrelax]

Originally Posted by pembroke3355

Sorry to hear it bro. A serm might have stopped it might not. You never should run any cycle without having a serm on hand. Many people can do a OTC PCT just fine with epi and in your case you could not. For any cycle a SERM should be kept on hand because we all react differently to these compounds.

would it really have made a difference? he got the serm 2 days later than if he'd had it on hand. still would've been administered after pct when the gyno popped up.

Which raises a question... why when letro has been shown to have better gyno reducing effects does everyone say to have nolva on hand? For instance, he got gyno. reduced it with letro, then followed up with nolva. Had he just used nolva at the first sign of gyno, do you think the results would have been better? And from my understanding you cannot use both at the same time because letro takes away from the effectiveness of nolva.

[guyrelax]