[Mass_69]

Originally Posted by BodyWizard

Gee, Sport - that quote from ABRAHAM LINCOLN kinda threw you, dinnit?

I have this bet with myself: that fewer than one in ten can tell when and how "left" and "right" came into political speech; I base this on the observation that the Left/Right "political dichotomy" is typically used (more aggresively by the "right", it seems) as if it meant something in and of itself - and not in reference to something specific. It is a specific historical reference. Anyone want to prove me wrong?

The French Revolution story of the seating arrangements seems to make more sense, and is the reason I have heard of more often. I never checked the accuracy, though.

[Reaper329]

Originally Posted by Mass_69

OK, point taken.

I believe at the time of my posting, I had added more to the conversation in 2 words than your overblown insult to the oringinal post.

So in adding to the conversation, the title said Democrats, but within the body he refers to both the "far-left" and "liberals," so it appears that the article is about the left (extreme is a relative term).

evidently by your first comment you are mistaken, enough said there

actually, the term extreme is mentioned in a very innocuos (sp) way, and is mentioned as the primary basis of judgement about those on the left. The end result is, that the article is biased as have been most that have been posted

[Arrogant]

Originally Posted by Mo250

I'm voting Democrat because...

-When my children go to school, I want the teachers to show them how to use condoms.

LOL. Because sexual education is a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Mo250

-I want a government run, socialized health care system, because gov't programs work so good.

I'll excuse the awful grammar (probably a result of that brutal school system you mentioned) and ask you about the myriad of government run health programs already in existence, and how they've grown since 2000.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-I don't think people who were stupid & bought houses they can't afford should lose their homes. I want to pay for them.

Agreed. But let's talk about the Republican led bailouts of multinational corporations that exhibited the same bad judgments and fiscal stupidity. Corporate handouts have nearly doubled since Dubya.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-I shouldn't have the right to carry a firearm. If we ban guns, the criminals would also stop using them, because they're fair like that.

Do wacky NRA/conservative radio talking points really work?
Based on this comment, I guess they do.
Nobody is taking away your gun - and you look like a scared little xenophobe when you claim that "OMG!! ITS GONNA HAPPEN!"

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Because I know that child molesters are just confused, they can be re-habed with just a little time spent in jail & some therapy (that I should pay for). & Besides, who am I to really judge their life-style anyway.

This one confounds me - and not just because of your continued destruction of the English language. A child molester has a disease, it's not a lifestyle. Although that's a handy way of including gay overtones in your argument. I don't know anyone, other than the Catholic Church that believes these animals can be rehabilitated.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Affirmative action is great! Putting a lesser qualified person in a position over a better qualified person based solely on race is so fair. Besides, black peolpe aren't smart enough to compete with whites, they need all the help they can get.

Sweet! Then you'll have no problem voting for Obama.
He believes race-based affirmative action should be greatly reduced.

McBush, on the other hand, believes all federal affirmative action programs should continue.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Socialism works! Just look at history.

It's amazing that Faux News and Rush can spout off their talking points, and their faithful little sheep eat it up - without any substantiation of the facts.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-I like being a slave to oil rich foreign countries. No need to use our own resources!

Let's see... The Bush and Cheney families makes many millions off of that foreign oil. Create never before seen levels of instability in the Middle East -- and you point the finger at Democrats for your oil woes? Dubya and his oil cronies have never been happier and it's hysterical to suggest that off shore oil drilling will have any impact on the cost you pay at the pump.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Complying with the Kyoto treaty is a great idea! Who needs industry in America anyway? If we limit ourselves & stop producing goods here, they'll just be produced in another country with even slacker environmental laws, but don't worry about that, because we'll know we're doing the right thing. Besides, those greeters at Wal-Mart seem to love their jobs. I think I would like to make that my new career.

Let's see... You bring up perennial GOP funding king Wal-Mart.
They not only suggest it, they DEMAND that their vendors outsource their manufacturing to foreign companies - because cash is king. PERIOD.

In 1998 we imported $71 billion from China.
In 1999 we imported $81 billion from China.

Those were the EVIL Clinton years.

Now, using your theory of GWB not signing the treaty and promoting US industry, those numbers should at the VERY LEAST continued on a similar level of growth, or even taken a step backwards, because after all GWB cares about Americans!!

Right?

Wrong.

2000 - China exported $100 billion to America
2007 - China exported $321.5 billion to America

This amounts to an unprecedented $256 billion trade defict with JUST China! YAY GEORGE BUSH!!!

Originally Posted by Mo250

-I like having illegal immigrants here. They lower my wages, & do jobs that we Americans are too good to do. They drive around with no licenses, drunk, & kill people. But that's OK because they add to my voter base.

Unfortunately for you, the Republicans are backed by large corporations that love to take advantage of that labor.
Therefore, they're more than willing to add illegal aliens to their voter base. I thought that the illegal alien argument would be one that I'd find common ground with the GOP -- instead, it once again came down to money and votes.

And to a certain extent, I agree with the GOP way of thinking.
If a dumb immigrant can take your job, you need to reevaluate your position in life.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Having a slave underclass (illegal immigrants) is OK. They'll be happy to stay poor & clean toilets. That's why I don't mind paying their medical bills & providing social services for them.

FACT: More white people are on welfare than any other race.

Originally Posted by Mo250

-We don't need border control. Never mind those drugs that flood over them, thus ruining the lives of millions of Americans in countless ways.

The GOP disagrees. Here's where they shine!!
The illegal aliens can be patrolled by a cool series of video cameras and motion detectors! And really, if they make it over here - they're just trying to better their lives anyway.
Now...also keep in mind that the Karl Rove has masterminded the lame terrorist theory that AT ANY SECOND we'll have 9/11 PART TWO!!

FYI: If a barefoot immigrant can make it past our elaborate border patrol, wouldn't a highly sophisticated terrorist network be able to do the same thing? Oh wait? You mean it's not about protecting the borders...and there's really no threat?
Controlling by fear - it's the Republican way!

Originally Posted by Mo250

-Because if I don't vote for Obama, it's because I am a racist. Not because I disagree with him on a philosophical level.

Based on your above arguments, I'd say that it has more to do with him being half black than anything else. However, I do share your hatred for ANYONE that bases a vote on skin color. Many, many black people voted for Obama simply because he is half black. However, many millions more based their decision NOT to vote for him because of his color...

It will be hilarious to see McCain carry the elderly vote, even though he has voted to gut their medicare. I could go on and on with his flip-flops, but anyone with a single functioning brain cell can figure it out. People very well may have fundamental differences with Obama (although they usually can never articulate it to me), but McCain isn't the answer either, and his complete lack of support from the GOP is proof of that.

[Mass_69]

Originally Posted by Reaper329

evidently by your first comment you are mistaken, enough said there

Enough said? You didn't even say anything with that statement. There was nothing to be mistaken about.

Originally Posted by Reaper329

actually, the term extreme is mentioned in a very innocuos (sp) way, and is mentioned as the primary basis of judgement about those on the left. The end result is, that the article is biased as have been most that have been posted

The definition of the word extreme was hardly the point of my post. Additionally, "extreme" was your word, not the authors (he used "far") and I chose not to use it, and stated why. No one has argued whether or not the article was biased, that was obvious. He's writing his opinion, not reporting a story. It's empty statements like your posting that make the Left look bad. Accusations, insults, and riddles, but lacking constructive commentary or answers, it's the rep that the left has built. I know you said you are Independent, but fundementally, everyone leans to one side or another. Judging by your postings, it can be presumed that you are representing the Left.

Also, it doesn't matter how you use extreme, it's still not an infinite unit of measurement, and it's still a relative measure/gauge. Phera-Plex may be extreme to a natural bodybuilder, but not to an IFBB pro.

I've said all I need to. I'm out. Going to go read bodybuilding threads now.

[grila jujitsu]

Originally Posted by bpmartyr

Why I'm Voting Democrat
Ben Shapiro
Wednesday, June 18, 2008

A new video on YouTube is taking the Internet by storm. Entitled "I'm Voting Republican," the satirical clip depicts actors playing conservative Americans of all shapes and sizes explaining why they would vote for the GOP.

"Arnold Jones" says he's voting Republican because "all other countries are inferior to us" -- and his wife, "Trudy Jones," adds, "and we should start as many wars as we need to keep it that way." A soldier in Iraq states that he's voting Republican "so I can stay in Iraq" -- and a young boy, labeled "future draftee," points a fake gun at the camera and smiles while saying "so I can go to Iran!"

A black couple says they're voting Republican because they "like a conservative majority on the Supreme Court," with the wife noting, "we really like knowing that even if we're separate, we'll still be called equal."

This insulting nonsense is precisely what liberals think of conservatives: We're all warmongers, racists, environmental rapists and secret emissaries of big corporations. We're going to reinstitute the draft, start a war with Canada and then relocate African-Americans to Quebec.

This sort of tripe should be dismissed out of hand. In the spirit of evenhandedness and fair play, however, I feel it my duty to explain why I'm going to vote Democrat.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that the best strategy in war is defeat. It broadens the mind to learn Japanese, German and Arabic. Talk about multiculturalism!

I'm voting Democrat because I'm mad that George W. Bush hasn't caught Bin Laden. That's because Bin Laden is the only Islamic terrorist in the world.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that if I don't have enough money, the solution is for the government to take more of my money. Who needs money when gas is $5 per gallon?

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that the ideal family is two homosexual bonobos, a goat and a parrot raising a human baby. Love and compassion is all it takes to make a successful family!

I'm voting Democrat because it's my body, and if I want to kill my baby, I'll do it, even if its head is in the birth canal. If I want to cut out my intestines and feed them to the crocodiles, I'll do that too. That's the freedom our forefathers enshrined in the Constitution.

I'm voting Democrat because our enemies on the battlefield deserve comfy hotel rooms, Pay-Per-View, prostitutes and all the benefits of American citizenship.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe we need other countries' permission for me to turn down my thermostat.

I'm voting Democrat because I care about the real victims of crime -- criminals.

I'm voting Democrat because the real cure for racism includes preferential policies based on race -- particularly in presidential voting. If you believe that a black candidate ought to be qualified, as well as black, you're worse than Bull Conner.

I'm voting Democrat because everyone deserves crappy healthcare. Sure, you'll have to wait years for that life-saving cancer surgery. But it's first come, first served at the cemetery!

I'm voting Democrat because I believe in minority rights (except in Muslim countries), free speech (with regard to pornography but not conservative talk radio), environmentalism (unless we're talking about Al Gore's house) and diplomacy (but never backed by the threat of military force).

I'm voting Democrat because I like the words "hope" and "change." Also "kazoo." That's a funny word.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that America's founders were rich, white, greedy xenophobes, and that America's founding principles are hogwash requiring periodic editing from an unelected group of liberal judges.

Most of all, I'm voting Democrat because I like the ideas they have over in France, but I don't feel like moving there. I'll threaten to move, but I really won't. After all, I have a good job, healthcare, lower taxes, free speech and a social framework that promotes family structure. And all of it is defended by the most effective fighting force on the planet.

If only the institution of far-left values resulted in a great country. Oh, well. That won't stop me from voting Democrat, though. After all, I'm voting Democrat because thought isn't one of my strong suits.

While i can see your point on the first part of the argument, the rest of your rant is truly base. I really wish the people in this country would stop slinging mud and just look at the facts. the fact is neither side is right and they both have there flaws. when people take a flaw and accentuate it to the point that they just look stupid is just sad. please be a bigger person a research your views.

[grila jujitsu]

Originally Posted by Arrogant

LOL. Because sexual education is a bad thing?



I'll excuse the awful grammar (probably a result of that brutal school system you mentioned) and ask you about the myriad of government run health programs already in existence, and how they've grown since 2000.



Agreed. But let's talk about the Republican led bailouts of multinational corporations that exhibited the same bad judgments and fiscal stupidity. Corporate handouts have nearly doubled since Dubya.



Do wacky NRA/conservative radio talking points really work?
Based on this comment, I guess they do.
Nobody is taking away your gun - and you look like a scared little xenophobe when you claim that "OMG!! ITS GONNA HAPPEN!"



This one confounds me - and not just because of your continued destruction of the English language. A child molester has a disease, it's not a lifestyle. Although that's a handy way of including gay overtones in your argument. I don't know anyone, other than the Catholic Church that believes these animals can be rehabilitated.



Sweet! Then you'll have no problem voting for Obama.
He believes race-based affirmative action should be greatly reduced.

McBush, on the other hand, believes all federal affirmative action programs should continue.




It's amazing that Faux News and Rush can spout off their talking points, and their faithful little sheep eat it up - without any substantiation of the facts.




Let's see... The Bush and Cheney families makes many millions off of that foreign oil. Create never before seen levels of instability in the Middle East -- and you point the finger at Democrats for your oil woes? Dubya and his oil cronies have never been happier and it's hysterical to suggest that off shore oil drilling will have any impact on the cost you pay at the pump.





Let's see... You bring up perennial GOP funding king Wal-Mart.
They not only suggest it, they DEMAND that their vendors outsource their manufacturing to foreign companies - because cash is king. PERIOD.

In 1998 we imported $71 billion from China.
In 1999 we imported $81 billion from China.

Those were the EVIL Clinton years.

Now, using your theory of GWB not signing the treaty and promoting US industry, those numbers should at the VERY LEAST continued on a similar level of growth, or even taken a step backwards, because after all GWB cares about Americans!!

Right?

Wrong.

2000 - China exported $100 billion to America
2007 - China exported $321.5 billion to America

This amounts to an unprecedented $256 billion trade defict with JUST China! YAY GEORGE BUSH!!!




Unfortunately for you, the Republicans are backed by large corporations that love to take advantage of that labor.
Therefore, they're more than willing to add illegal aliens to their voter base. I thought that the illegal alien argument would be one that I'd find common ground with the GOP -- instead, it once again came down to money and votes.

And to a certain extent, I agree with the GOP way of thinking.
If a dumb immigrant can take your job, you need to reevaluate your position in life.



FACT: More white people are on welfare than any other race.




The GOP disagrees. Here's where they shine!!
The illegal aliens can be patrolled by a cool series of video cameras and motion detectors! And really, if they make it over here - they're just trying to better their lives anyway.
Now...also keep in mind that the Karl Rove has masterminded the lame terrorist theory that AT ANY SECOND we'll have 9/11 PART TWO!!

FYI: If a barefoot immigrant can make it past our elaborate border patrol, wouldn't a highly sophisticated terrorist network be able to do the same thing? Oh wait? You mean it's not about protecting the borders...and there's really no threat?
Controlling by fear - it's the Republican way!



Based on your above arguments, I'd say that it has more to do with him being half black than anything else. However, I do share your hatred for ANYONE that bases a vote on skin color. Many, many black people voted for Obama simply because he is half black. However, many millions more based their decision NOT to vote for him because of his color...

It will be hilarious to see McCain carry the elderly vote, even though he has voted to gut their medicare. I could go on and on with his flip-flops, but anyone with a single functioning brain cell can figure it out. People very well may have fundamental differences with Obama (although they usually can never articulate it to me), but McCain isn't the answer either, and his complete lack of support from the GOP is proof of that.

thank you finally another intelligent person!!!

[WebDesigner]

Originally Posted by grila jujitsu

thank you finally another intelligent person!!!

X2..

Mo250 pretty much got ownt, lol.

[DAdams91982]

Originally Posted by WebDesigner

X2..

Mo250 pretty much got ownt, lol.

So insightful.

Adams

[Reaper329]

Originally Posted by Mass_69

Enough said? You didn't even say anything with that statement. There was nothing to be mistaken about.

The definition of the word extreme was hardly the point of my post. Additionally, "extreme" was your word, not the authors (he used "far") and I chose not to use it, and stated why. No one has argued whether or not the article was biased, that was obvious. He's writing his opinion, not reporting a story. It's empty statements like your posting that make the Left look bad. Accusations, insults, and riddles, but lacking constructive commentary or answers, it's the rep that the left has built. I know you said you are Independent, but fundementally, everyone leans to one side or another. Judging by your postings, it can be presumed that you are representing the Left.

Also, it doesn't matter how you use extreme, it's still not an infinite unit of measurement, and it's still a relative measure/gauge. Phera-Plex may be extreme to a natural bodybuilder, but not to an IFBB pro.

I've said all I need to. I'm out. Going to go read bodybuilding threads now.

I do have to say you seem to like ot make assumptions, specifically about where my political leanings lie. Well then kind sir I will tell you. I am socially liberal and have been fiscally conservative, but that has nothing to do with political parties hence the indy denomination. As it stands now, the parties are blurring the lines, and are not to true to their previous standards.

Dealing with word extreme, it is a bit silly to assume and state that one candidate is extreme as was the purpose of the OP. Keep in mind, that while certain issues might seem extreme, the candidate as a whole is not

[BodyWizard]

So far, we have a half point to Reaper_329 and to Mass_69 for narrowing it down to the French Revolution.

Another half-point to Mass_69 for knowing it has something to do with "seating arrangements"; however, there's still a very revealing ways to go.

For one point each:
- what *were* those "seating arrangements"?
- how did they come about?

and THREE points to whoever can tie it all together & describe how these things led to "left" and "right" entering into Anglo-European political speech, where they have remained - as "useful" as ever - for over 200 years. ("Anglo-European" in this sense includes the USA)

[BodyWizard]

Originally Posted by Reaper329

I do have to say you seem to like ot make assumptions, specifically about where my political leanings lie. Well then kind sir I will tell you. I am socially liberal and have been fiscally conservative, but that has nothing to do with political parties hence the indy denomination.

My friend, you have just described yourself plainly as a classic libertarian. Given the ongoing gang-rape of the Libertarian Party & libertarian philosophy & ideals by the neo-cons & their talk-radio chimpoisie, it's understandable that you would believe your positions placed you between the parties; I suggest "For A New Liberty", by Murray_Rothbard as a sound and solid orientation in libertarian principles.