What's your position on gun rights?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    In 8 years the price of gas has gone from 2 dollars a gallon to 4, people have lost houses, economy has tanked, dollar has lost values, rest of the world is making fun of USA and all you are worried about is what would you do if Government seizes your freedom?? Well I have got two words for you - Patriot Act. What happened when Govt. started recording your privacy? Didnt exactly see the NRA come out firing against Govt, did we?



    How did Keith Olbermann get in here...
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by leetuser View Post
    Makes us a safe country bro. If you feel like pretending there aren't people willing to hurt you or steal your stuff in a heartbeat to better themselves then you have the right to disarm yourself. And you think wanting to protect ourselves and our family's makes us scared? Maybe you're willing to depend on the police to protect you, but i sure as hell am not. In a perfect world the you wouldn't have a reason to own a firearm, but in a life and death situation where you don't have time to call for help you need to rely on yourself for protection.
    You think the USA is a safer country by allowing ordinary citizens to carry guns?? does it not have higher crime rates then practically every other civilized country on earth?? You guys are ridiculous. The stats don't lie.
    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

    Banning guns is a great idea, perhaps you wouldn't have so many shootings if they were unavailable to a certain degree. Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.
    ummm all of the ones who were going to use the guns for crimes would

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    You think the USA is a safer country by allowing ordinary citizens to carry guns?? does it not have higher crime rates then practically every other civilized country on earth?? You guys are ridiculous. The stats don't lie.
    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

    Banning guns is a great idea, perhaps you wouldn't have so many shootings if they were unavailable to a certain degree. Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.
    Apparently most criminals would. Most gun crime is committed with illegally acquired firearms.

    Gun owners who legally acquire their firearms are among the most consistently law abiding groups of people in the US.

    Concealed carry permit holders commit crimes at a rate that is a small fraction of the general population. Furthermore, crime generally declines in states that pass "right to carry" or "shall issue" laws. For example, after Florida passed its concealed carry law, its homicide rate dropped from 36% above the national average to 4% below the national average.

    The areas with the greatest amount of crime (DC, Chicago, NY, etc) are usually the areas with the strictest gun control laws.

    It is also useless and intellectually dishonest to compare crime rates between countries. Many of the root causes of crime in the US do not exist in countries that are far more culturally and ethnically homogeneous - regardless of what that culture or ethnicity is.

  5. There is 1 incident in US history of a legally purchased fully automatic weapon being used for a crime. That was in the 1930s, it was a police officer who came home from work to find his wife in bed with another man, pulled out the machine gun and killed them both. Any other crime committed with an automatic weapon has been with an illegally obtained one
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    ummm all of the ones who were going to use the guns for crimes would
    I dont no wether u own a gun or not but say you do and tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him?? i dont understand how all of you guys can say you want to be able to carry a gun in your own home. You seem to have this "fight fire with fire" attitude.

    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him??...
    yep. and he'll never break into a house again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.
    well, and thats the difference tho. in a country where there aren't 200 million guns already, not allowing guns is ok. its hard to import them, hard to sneak them past customs. Here on the other hand, that isn't the case. Remember, you were a prison colony originally

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    I dont no wether u own a gun or not but say you do and tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him?? i dont understand how all of you guys can say you want to be able to carry a gun in your own home. You seem to have this "fight fire with fire" attitude.

    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.
    I've got a shotgun by my bed. If I wake up and hear someone taking my sh*t out in the living room that is just fine, that stuff can be replaced. The shotgun is if they come into my bedroom, because that means they are probably going to try and hurt me or my girl. They get warnings.
    1st: Get the f*ck out of my house.
    2nd: the lovely sound of a pump-action shotgun being "shucked"
    3rd: get the f*ck out of my room

    if all that fails, yes, i'll be sending at least one shell of #1 buckshot their way... and at that range i'll probably not miss, and yes, i'll be shooting center-mass.

    MB
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  9. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    yep. and he'll never break into a house again.
    He doesn't deserve to be shot and killed. Punished but not killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    well, and thats the difference tho. in a country where there aren't 200 million guns already, not allowing guns is ok. its hard to import them, hard to sneak them past customs. Here on the other hand, that isn't the case. Remember, you were a prison colony originally .
    Ouch

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    He doesn't deserve to be shot and killed. Punished but not killed.
    that is a matter of opinion. by solely not breaking into my house, he could have avoided that outcome, so I would say he did deserve it by leaving the realm of acceptable civilization. I view it as a protection of my family, as there is no telling what could happen if my 3 year old daughter wandered downstairs before i did.

  11. and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    There are plenty of public assistance programs, even in the US, so that people don't need to commit felonies to feed their families.

    Once someone has entered my home without my permission, I am not willing to trust them to not try to harm my loved ones or me.

  13. like i said, they can take the sh*t from my house, but if they come after me or those i care about, "wake up time to die" (to quote a disturbed song).

    MB
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    that is his problem, and he should get a job. he surrenders his rights when he violates mine.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home,.
    Yes we do
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  16. Well there's your problem.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Well there's your problem.

    According to you, not me....who lives here.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    going back to this, do I get to run a metal detector over him before he comes in the house to know he has no gun or knife on him? if not, then I have to assume he is dangerous to my family if he has so little regard for other individuals rights as to break into someone's home

  19. Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    First: it's not "a law" - it's an essential component of the way our nation is structured: part of the foundation laid on which we established our way of life. You may think it's old and stale, but tyrants are always searching for a foothold, and rendering the populace helpless against enemies domestic is an open invitation to tyranny.
    That is nothing but fear-mongering without any sound reason at all.

    Let me ask you this - If you are so worried about tyrants overrunning USA can you please name me such tyrants in last 100 years of USA history?? Maybe a couple of Presidents that took away all the civil liberties of US citizens, to such an extent that every American was thankful for having the right to gun?

    It is easy to make all these -tyrant-claims but lets hear out some concrete names/facts etc etc.

    Imposition of tyranny might not be *stale*, but I doubt any As for whether this makes us "safer" - look around: is this Somalia? Beruit '88? Israel's occupied territories? Sadr City? Rwanda? Darfur? Zimbabwe? He!!, it's not even *Bosnia* (gotta watch them snipers).

    Y
    WOW! Those are some of the most violent cities in the world and it is only amusing that you compare a USA city to a Somalian city

    Reality check time:

    a) Is LA safer than Stockholm(Sweden)? NO

    b) Is New York safer than Paris? Hell NO.

    c) Is Chicago safer than Berlin/Bonn/Stuttgart/Cologne etc etc. NO.

    d) Is an average American school/college safer than a European school/college? NO.

    e) Do more kids die due to gun firing in Tokyo/Seoul/Delhi than those in USA? NO.

    Start comparing US cities with half-decent cities of the world, specially those of 1st world country - Australia, UK, Holland, Germany etc etc. and you will see how fundamentally flawed your argument was.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano View Post
    How did Keith Olbermann get in here...


    Thanks. For not comparing me to Dan Abrams

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    That is nothing but fear-mongering without any sound reason at all.

    Let me ask you this - If you are so worried about tyrants overrunning USA can you please name me such tyrants in last 100 years of USA history?? Maybe a couple of Presidents that took away all the civil liberties of US citizens, to such an extent that every American was thankful for having the right to gun?

    It is easy to make all these -tyrant-claims but lets hear out some concrete names/facts etc etc.



    WOW! Those are some of the most violent cities in the world and it is only amusing that you compare a USA city to a Somalian city

    Reality check time:

    a) Is LA safer than Stockholm(Sweden)? NO

    b) Is New York safer than Paris? Hell NO.

    c) Is Chicago safer than Berlin/Bonn/Stuttgart/Cologne etc etc. NO.

    d) Is an average American school/college safer than a European school/college? NO.

    e) Do more kids die due to gun firing in Tokyo/Seoul/Delhi than those in USA? NO.

    Start comparing US cities with half-decent cities of the world, specially those of 1st world country - Australia, UK, Holland, Germany etc etc. and you will see how fundamentally flawed your argument was.
    Thank you, your points are much better then mine!

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Wait a minute, so arming the general populace deters criminals? You wouldn't say. You bring up the VT shooting. You think those kids want guns because they are scared? Maybe a few, but I bet the majority want guns on campus, because they realize that if someone had been carrying a concealed weapon in that classroom building that day, then perhaps they could have saved lives.
    Nabisco.

    Lets take this point further. I argue that students at VT want to carry gun more out of fright, you argue that it is because had one being carrying a weapon the catastrophy could have been avoided.

    To that my first question would be - Do guns belong in school in the first place?

    My second question would be - What sets a USA school apart from the rest of the world where such incidents do not happen?

    Lastly my question would be - If you have a kid tomorrow(not sure you do/dont) would you be happier if he/she goes to the college where every student has a gun, or would you be happier if he/she goes to a colloge without guns?

    Let me know.

    Cheers.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    My second question would be - What sets a USA school apart from the rest of the world where such incidents do not happen?
    that one is easy, the volume of guns currently out in the wild.

    Number of firearms in the US: 223 Million
    (Source: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime, 7/95, from ATF data)


    Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Lastly my question would be - If you have a kid tomorrow(not sure you do/dont) would you be happier if he/she goes to the college where every student has a gun, or would you be happier if he/she goes to a colloge without guns?

    Let me know.

    Cheers.
    I have 2 kids, waiting for #3 to be born, and i'd be more comfortable with option A, the college where all students who arent disqualified for mental, drug etc reasons carry a gun. No one, not even the football team will try to rape a girl on that campus.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    That is nothing but fear-mongering without any sound reason at all.

    Let me ask you this - If you are so worried about tyrants overrunning USA can you please name me such tyrants in last 100 years of USA history?? Maybe a couple of Presidents that took away all the civil liberties of US citizens, to such an extent that every American was thankful for having the right to gun?

    It is easy to make all these -tyrant-claims but lets hear out some concrete names/facts etc etc.
    The fact that something has not happened yet does not mean that it will not or could not happen.

    And the mastermind of the Pearl Harbor attack had the following to say about a proposed Japanese invasion of the US:

    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

    WOW! Those are some of the most violent cities in the world and it is only amusing that you compare a USA city to a Somalian city

    Reality check time:

    a) Is LA safer than Stockholm(Sweden)? NO

    b) Is New York safer than Paris? Hell NO.

    c) Is Chicago safer than Berlin/Bonn/Stuttgart/Cologne etc etc. NO.

    d) Is an average American school/college safer than a European school/college? NO.

    e) Do more kids die due to gun firing in Tokyo/Seoul/Delhi than those in USA? NO.

    Start comparing US cities with half-decent cities of the world, specially those of 1st world country - Australia, UK, Holland, Germany etc etc. and you will see how fundamentally flawed your argument was.
    Those comparisons might be useful if the only difference between the US cities and the foreign ones is US gun laws. Of course, there are far more variables and the comparison is worthless.

    I will point out, though, that Chicago has the second strictest gun control laws in the US, and despite this, it is a very violent city.

  25. Washington DC our capital as well

  26. Ok so all bickering aside what do you guys think needs to happen to reduce the gun crime in the states? If it isn't banning guns then what is it? Stricter punishments?

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Ok so all bickering aside what do you guys think needs to happen to reduce the gun crime in the states? If it isn't banning guns then what is it? Stricter punishments?
    Effective enforcement of the laws already on the books would go a long way.

    Sentencing enhancements for people convicted of violent crimes with firearms would also work, as would severe punishments for repeat offenders.

    Combating the root causes of crime (poverty, lack of education, racism, lack of opportunity) would be the most effective means of combating violent crime.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    that one is easy, the volume of guns currently out in the wild.

    Number of firearms in the US: 223 Million

    (Source: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime, 7/95, from ATF data)
    Basically you have answered the whole dogma right there, havent you Easy?

    The population of USA - 300 million, the number of firearms in USA - 223 million. Comes to about an arm per person really. Which other country in the world has this ratio? NONE. And which other country in the world is this unsafe? NONE. Okay maybe Zimbabwe, Israel, Middle East etc etc. But surely of all the 1st world country USA is the unsafest, inspite of gun laws. So obviously this hasnt worked, right?


    I have 2 kids, waiting for #3 to be born, and i'd be more comfortable with option A, the college where all students who arent disqualified for mental, drug etc reasons carry a gun. No one, not even the football team will try to rape a girl on that campus.
    You are going to the xtreme. If I take your analogy here you are somehow insinuating that every football player on every American college campus is raping a girl. That is hardly the case. And if there was gun that would not stop the rape anyway. Case in point, the rapes of American female soldiers inside the Armed Forces by their men counterpart. I am sure you have read many of those claims. Recently of course an American marine killed a female marine and buried her, you seriously think that American female marine was not strong enough to defend herself?? In all probability she would be carrying a gun too.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Basically you have answered the whole dogma right there, havent you Easy?

    The population of USA - 300 million, the number of firearms in USA - 223 million. Comes to about an arm per person really. Which other country in the world has this ratio? NONE. And which other country in the world is this unsafe? NONE. Okay maybe Zimbabwe, Israel, Middle East etc etc. But surely of all the 1st world country USA is the unsafest, inspite of gun laws. So obviously this hasnt worked, right?
    Wrong. Availability of firearms is only one of many variables at work here.



    You are going to the xtreme. If I take your analogy here you are somehow insinuating that every football player on every American college campus is raping a girl. That is hardly the case. And if there was gun that would not stop the rape anyway. Case in point, the rapes of American female soldiers inside the Armed Forces by their men counterpart. I am sure you have read many of those claims. Recently of course an American marine killed a female marine and buried her, you seriously think that American female marine was not strong enough to defend herself?? In all probability she would be carrying a gun too.
    She should have been carrying one. Women in particular are vulnerable to violent crime because they are generally physically weaker than men. A firearms allows a 100 pound woman to defend herself against a 300 pound man.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp View Post
    The fact that something has not happened yet does not mean that it will not or could not happen.
    SO basically the whole theory of - guns against tyrants - does NOT have any factual backing. It is all a fear mongering no matter how you spin it.

    And the mastermind of the Pearl Harbor attack had the following to say about a proposed Japanese invasion of the US:

    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
    International policies are clearly different than domestic policy. I am sure you understand that difference. It is one thing for an American not to trust a Japanese, it is completely different for an American not to trust an American. I guess you are suggesting the latter should be the case whereby Americans dont trust their fellow countrymen. Ummmmm.
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