What's your position on gun rights?

Page 2 of 7 First 1234 ... Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    NO.

    It is NOT that Government per se removes our freedom but that this Government most certainly has. I am not sure if I have seen any other American Government that has curtailed the privacy of its citizens as the current Govt.

    Onto your question as to how do we go about bringing the change. Well we have the most powerful tool - Democracy - that we can use. I mean we are keen on spreading this abroad(read Iraq and elsewhere) but when it comes to USA this doesnt work? That doesnt cover ourselves with much glory does it now?



    My point was rather simple. Just as we dont have slavery today, as we did in the times of our Founding Fathers I see no reason why we should have Free for All Gun control. My argument stemmed from the fact that you suggested -The Founding Fathers knew this was true because they experienced it. This obviously doesnt hold true since not all of Founding Fathers decision in 1789 is valid today.



    In many ways it is. How else can you explain the fact that we have been ruled by a President who enjoys 25% ratings on every channel, from Fox to MSNBC for the past 2 years? If ever there was a case of impeachment this was it. I mean can you imagine CEO of Nutraplanet being at top if only 25% of its members/workers/stockholders supported him?

    So why he hasnt been impeached? Well because he didnt commit a crime and thats what COnstitution says in such cases. Go figure!

    I say update Constitution as well.

    Your understanding of the Constitution, the nature of governments, and the nature of rights is so fundamentally flawed that I am at a loss as to where to begin.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    In that case shouldnt citizens make more of an effort to better law and order in USA than to go get a gun??

    Let me put this question to you: What do you opine will bring down crimes - good Cops and Police system in USA? OR Americans carrying guns?
    Yeah man I'm all for law an order but this is the real world where **** often hits the fan and the fairy-tale no worries life can come to an end because of criminals. So while we're working things out with the government trying to create your perfect society, I'll be concealed carrying my glock.
    •   
       


  3. Any restriction on guns hampers only the law-abiding citizen.

    Criminals WILL get guns no matter what restrictions are placed on them -- All a restriction does is hamper our abilities to adequately defend ourselves against a very real, very dangerous criminal threat.

  4. Saurabh, I am stunned by your views...I knew some people advocated strict gun control, but your utopian viewpoint never will nor never has existed. Do a little research on gun control in your spare time, and the evidence will destroy your argument.

    For instance, when the state of Florida allowed the law-abiding populace to carry concealed arms, violent crimes against Florida citizens plummeted. Two years after the institution of said law they did a study on convicted criminals. They posed the question, "Why have crimes in general decreased over the past few years against Florida citizens?". The overwhelming answer (>85%) was that they could never tell if a Florida resident would be carrying a gun so it wasn't worth the risk.

    Wait a minute, so arming the general populace deters criminals? You wouldn't say. You bring up the VT shooting. You think those kids want guns because they are scared? Maybe a few, but I bet the majority want guns on campus, because they realize that if someone had been carrying a concealed weapon in that classroom building that day, then perhaps they could have saved lives.

    The police can only do so much. They're are not even enough police in major cities to account for 1% of the population, so how do you expect them to be able to counter 100% of crime even if they were perfect officers? It's unachievable, and unrealistic. Wake up and smell the coffee home slice.

    It's been proven by study after study, that strict gun control laws on law-abiding citizens result in a rise in gun related crimes, because criminals have nothing to fear. Where as, lenient gun control laws results in either no change (due to low crime already) or a decrease in gun related crimes against law abiding citizens.

    If you take away my right to carry a firearm, what makes you think that will stop a criminal from obtaining one? Because its illegal, he won't be able to get one? Are you kidding me? He'll still have a gun and I'll have no way to protect myself. So he breaks in, and even if I can get a 911 call off to the police, I'll have to wait 5-10 minutes for that officer to arrive. And thats 5-10 minutes that the criminal has to harm me or my family.

    I say unacceptable. When my life or the life of a loved one hangs in the balance, I damn well want the ability to protect myself. You say people want guns because they are scared? I don't agree. I think the people without guns are the ones who are scared. The people who own firearms are secure in the fact that they have the means to protect themselves.

    But continue living in your utopian mindset. And when someone breaks into your home, and harms your loved ones, don't blame the police for not responding fast enough. Blame yourself for not providing the means to protect those loved ones.

    /rant

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Any restriction on guns hampers only the law-abiding citizen.

    Criminals WILL get guns no matter what restrictions are placed on them -- All a restriction does is hamper our abilities to adequately defend ourselves against a very real, very dangerous criminal threat.
    Correct. They are criminals - non law abiding. making laws to make guns illegal or harder to get don't affect them. The issue is that the guns are already in circulation - there are more guns than cars in the US. any change making average citizen less able to buy guns doesn't affect the ability of a criminal to.

    In a country like the UK where this hasn't been true historically (availability of handguns at least) its different.

    I think its sweeden that requires everyone spend x amount of time in military training, and that each home have a military grade automatic rifle in it (since they have no standing military). Guess how often home invasions happen there?
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    In 8 years the price of gas has gone from 2 dollars a gallon to 4, people have lost houses, economy has tanked, dollar has lost values, rest of the world is making fun of USA and all you are worried about is what would you do if Government seizes your freedom?? Well I have got two words for you - Patriot Act. What happened when Govt. started recording your privacy? Didnt exactly see the NRA come out firing against Govt, did we?



    How did Keith Olbermann get in here...
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by leetuser View Post
    Makes us a safe country bro. If you feel like pretending there aren't people willing to hurt you or steal your stuff in a heartbeat to better themselves then you have the right to disarm yourself. And you think wanting to protect ourselves and our family's makes us scared? Maybe you're willing to depend on the police to protect you, but i sure as hell am not. In a perfect world the you wouldn't have a reason to own a firearm, but in a life and death situation where you don't have time to call for help you need to rely on yourself for protection.
    You think the USA is a safer country by allowing ordinary citizens to carry guns?? does it not have higher crime rates then practically every other civilized country on earth?? You guys are ridiculous. The stats don't lie.
    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

    Banning guns is a great idea, perhaps you wouldn't have so many shootings if they were unavailable to a certain degree. Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.
    ummm all of the ones who were going to use the guns for crimes would

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    You think the USA is a safer country by allowing ordinary citizens to carry guns?? does it not have higher crime rates then practically every other civilized country on earth?? You guys are ridiculous. The stats don't lie.
    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

    Banning guns is a great idea, perhaps you wouldn't have so many shootings if they were unavailable to a certain degree. Of course they can be obtained illegally but how many people would want to go down that route.
    Apparently most criminals would. Most gun crime is committed with illegally acquired firearms.

    Gun owners who legally acquire their firearms are among the most consistently law abiding groups of people in the US.

    Concealed carry permit holders commit crimes at a rate that is a small fraction of the general population. Furthermore, crime generally declines in states that pass "right to carry" or "shall issue" laws. For example, after Florida passed its concealed carry law, its homicide rate dropped from 36% above the national average to 4% below the national average.

    The areas with the greatest amount of crime (DC, Chicago, NY, etc) are usually the areas with the strictest gun control laws.

    It is also useless and intellectually dishonest to compare crime rates between countries. Many of the root causes of crime in the US do not exist in countries that are far more culturally and ethnically homogeneous - regardless of what that culture or ethnicity is.

  10. There is 1 incident in US history of a legally purchased fully automatic weapon being used for a crime. That was in the 1930s, it was a police officer who came home from work to find his wife in bed with another man, pulled out the machine gun and killed them both. Any other crime committed with an automatic weapon has been with an illegally obtained one

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    ummm all of the ones who were going to use the guns for crimes would
    I dont no wether u own a gun or not but say you do and tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him?? i dont understand how all of you guys can say you want to be able to carry a gun in your own home. You seem to have this "fight fire with fire" attitude.

    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him??...
    yep. and he'll never break into a house again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.
    well, and thats the difference tho. in a country where there aren't 200 million guns already, not allowing guns is ok. its hard to import them, hard to sneak them past customs. Here on the other hand, that isn't the case. Remember, you were a prison colony originally

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    I dont no wether u own a gun or not but say you do and tonight u wake up, hear something, go into the living room and see some guy steeling your dvd player. what do you do? shoot him?? i dont understand how all of you guys can say you want to be able to carry a gun in your own home. You seem to have this "fight fire with fire" attitude.

    Obviously things are very different in the USA, i guess growing up in a country that doesn't allow guns is going to give me a different opinion. Fact is a gun is a deadly weapon and i dont see how it can make a country safer by allowing people to own one.
    I've got a shotgun by my bed. If I wake up and hear someone taking my sh*t out in the living room that is just fine, that stuff can be replaced. The shotgun is if they come into my bedroom, because that means they are probably going to try and hurt me or my girl. They get warnings.
    1st: Get the f*ck out of my house.
    2nd: the lovely sound of a pump-action shotgun being "shucked"
    3rd: get the f*ck out of my room

    if all that fails, yes, i'll be sending at least one shell of #1 buckshot their way... and at that range i'll probably not miss, and yes, i'll be shooting center-mass.

    MB
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  14. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    yep. and he'll never break into a house again.
    He doesn't deserve to be shot and killed. Punished but not killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    well, and thats the difference tho. in a country where there aren't 200 million guns already, not allowing guns is ok. its hard to import them, hard to sneak them past customs. Here on the other hand, that isn't the case. Remember, you were a prison colony originally .
    Ouch

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    He doesn't deserve to be shot and killed. Punished but not killed.
    that is a matter of opinion. by solely not breaking into my house, he could have avoided that outcome, so I would say he did deserve it by leaving the realm of acceptable civilization. I view it as a protection of my family, as there is no telling what could happen if my 3 year old daughter wandered downstairs before i did.

  16. and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    There are plenty of public assistance programs, even in the US, so that people don't need to commit felonies to feed their families.

    Once someone has entered my home without my permission, I am not willing to trust them to not try to harm my loved ones or me.

  18. like i said, they can take the sh*t from my house, but if they come after me or those i care about, "wake up time to die" (to quote a disturbed song).

    MB
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    that is his problem, and he should get a job. he surrenders his rights when he violates mine.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home,.
    Yes we do
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  21. Well there's your problem.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    Well there's your problem.

    According to you, not me....who lives here.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    and what if he was stealing something so he could sell it to provide food for his 3 yr old daughter? this is what im saying, you have no right to take someones life for breaking into your home, a beat down yeah maybe, but a bullet, no.
    going back to this, do I get to run a metal detector over him before he comes in the house to know he has no gun or knife on him? if not, then I have to assume he is dangerous to my family if he has so little regard for other individuals rights as to break into someone's home

  24. Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    First: it's not "a law" - it's an essential component of the way our nation is structured: part of the foundation laid on which we established our way of life. You may think it's old and stale, but tyrants are always searching for a foothold, and rendering the populace helpless against enemies domestic is an open invitation to tyranny.
    That is nothing but fear-mongering without any sound reason at all.

    Let me ask you this - If you are so worried about tyrants overrunning USA can you please name me such tyrants in last 100 years of USA history?? Maybe a couple of Presidents that took away all the civil liberties of US citizens, to such an extent that every American was thankful for having the right to gun?

    It is easy to make all these -tyrant-claims but lets hear out some concrete names/facts etc etc.

    Imposition of tyranny might not be *stale*, but I doubt any As for whether this makes us "safer" - look around: is this Somalia? Beruit '88? Israel's occupied territories? Sadr City? Rwanda? Darfur? Zimbabwe? He!!, it's not even *Bosnia* (gotta watch them snipers).

    Y
    WOW! Those are some of the most violent cities in the world and it is only amusing that you compare a USA city to a Somalian city

    Reality check time:

    a) Is LA safer than Stockholm(Sweden)? NO

    b) Is New York safer than Paris? Hell NO.

    c) Is Chicago safer than Berlin/Bonn/Stuttgart/Cologne etc etc. NO.

    d) Is an average American school/college safer than a European school/college? NO.

    e) Do more kids die due to gun firing in Tokyo/Seoul/Delhi than those in USA? NO.

    Start comparing US cities with half-decent cities of the world, specially those of 1st world country - Australia, UK, Holland, Germany etc etc. and you will see how fundamentally flawed your argument was.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano View Post
    How did Keith Olbermann get in here...


    Thanks. For not comparing me to Dan Abrams
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. What are your opinions on this workout?
    By sts184 in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-30-2008, 03:28 PM
  2. Replies: 43
    Last Post: 06-21-2008, 02:12 AM
  3. what are your thoughts on protein serum (link)
    By sundevil04 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-07-2007, 11:51 AM
  4. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-08-2006, 12:45 PM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-03-2004, 08:14 AM
Log in
Log in