A soldier's perspective on the war

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    A soldier's perspective on the war


    Someone sent it to me, and it was an interesting read.

    In Iraq, Was I a Torturer? | Rights and Liberties | AlterNet


    What do you think?

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    don't have time to read the whole thing, but on the first page this stands out:
    'In survey after survey, as many as two-thirds of Americans say torture is justified when it's used to get information from terrorists. In an ABC/Washington Post poll in the wake of the 2004 scandal, 60 percent of respondents classified what happened at Abu Ghraib as mere abuse, not torture. And as recently as last year, 68 percent of Americans told Pew Research pollsters that they consider torture an acceptable option when dealing with terrorists.'
    Kinda easy to feel ok about torturing people when they're nameless
    'terrorists' with whom you have no connection whatsoever, and you don't have to administer, see,smell, or hear it yourself, isn't it? Everyone is guilty of spouting off ignorant opinions including myself, but damn, sometimes people can be so disgusting in suprising ways...
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    Isn't it amazing what humans can do unto others in order to "protect us from harm".
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    well since the terrorists think cutting off heads of Americans on camara is good times, why should we care what happens to them?
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    I'm talking about them also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    well since the terrorists think cutting off heads of Americans on camara is good times, why should we care what happens to them?
    True terrorists I wouldn't be concerned with, and I do feel that in some cases torture is probably the only way to gain information that can lead to the prevention of future harm to other human beings, but I think in any military force during war time, that even though some men can be monsters, others are simply following orders and doing as trained, while hoping not to get killed in the process. That said, I just think it's too easy for the general public to be made to feel like
    entire armies down to a man are full of nothing but murderous beasts and we can just torture them all. Especially since we (the public at home) don't have to get our hands dirty or our minds scarred, we have our soldiers for that,
    so just tell them to do it while we go on to live our peaceful lives.

    George Orwell is credited for the quote 'You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm.', but the exact wording often varies, and there isn't any actual proof of him ever writing it. Occasionally, it's a quote also attributed to winston churchill. Regardless of its source, it's a good quote i think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    well since the terrorists think cutting off heads of Americans on camara is good times, why should we care what happens to them?

    I agree, but it's like, how do you know who is who?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I agree, but it's like, how do you know who is who?

    kill em all and let god sort them out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    kill em all and let god sort them out.
    Most of my military buddies, all of which have been deployed to Iraq are generally against the idea of torture. The first objection is that it isnt effective, they say that either the subject will lie and give false info just to get out of the situation or if they have the wrong individual, they subjected an innocent person to a cruel and unjust punishment. The other objection is that many have seen so much violence and atrocities committed by the enemy that engaging in the same tactics as they enemy would not only make us as bad as them but that it would also eliminate the premise of our presence being there. I have a problem with this notion of killing them all, put yourself in the soldiers position, say you murder a bunch of Iraqi's on the hint of suspicion of them being terrorists, now say many of those you killed were innocent, the question then becomes, how would God sort you out when you die? Believe it or not but when I have a serious conversations with my military friends these are the moral dilemmas that we discuss pertaining to the war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    Most of my military buddies, all of which have been deployed to Iraq are generally against the idea of torture. The first objection is that it isnt effective, they say that either the subject will lie and give false info just to get out of the situation or if they have the wrong individual, they subjected an innocent person to a cruel and unjust punishment. The other objection is that many have seen so much violence and atrocities committed by the enemy that engaging in the same tactics as they enemy would not only make us as bad as them but that it would also eliminate the premise of our presence being there. I have a problem with this notion of killing them all, put yourself in the soldiers position, say you murder a bunch of Iraqi's on the hint of suspicion of them being terrorists, now say many of those you killed were innocent, the question then becomes, how would God sort you out when you die? Believe it or not but when I have a serious conversations with my military friends these are the moral dilemmas that we discuss pertaining to the war.
    im guessing your buddies weren`t Marine Infantry.
    im not PRO torture but these animals dont understand fair treatment sometimes. and NO im not calling them all animals but when you see the way they kill each other and have no regard for life then you have a hard time seeing them as people.

    i`d rather kill a bunch of them and be wrong then not kill them and be dead. simple as that.


    BTW- i was there. and its easy to talk about the right thing to do when there isn`t someone trying to kill you everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    im guessing your buddies weren`t Marine Infantry.
    im not PRO torture but these animals dont understand fair treatment sometimes. and NO im not calling them all animals but when you see the way they kill each other and have no regard for life then you have a hard time seeing them as people.

    i`d rather kill a bunch of them and be wrong then not kill them and be dead. simple as that.


    BTW- i was there. and its easy to talk about the right thing to do when there isn`t someone trying to kill you everyday.
    I wouldn't say that this mentality is only found in the Marines. I was a medic in an Airborne Infantry battallion. I feel the same way.
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    Torture is not something the military should be involved with IMO. It should only be done by highly trained individuals within the CIA against KNOWN sources of vital, life saving information, not just suspects.

    Say some guy had your family held captive and they were in imminent danger. Now suppose you captured one of his partners that knew where they were. What would you be willing to do to get information out of him? I would rip his nails out, break his toes, stick needles in his balls etc.

    Now imagine the captive in question has information regarding a plot to detonate a dirty bomb against civilians. He would receive no mercy from me.
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    What i find interesting when I talk to soldiers there or their family. Pretty much universally they say that things in Iraq are much better than the media shows. They say they've seen huge improvements in quality of life there, as well as in the iraqi army/police stepping up and gaining in skill + quality
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    I wouldn't say that this mentality is only found in the Marines. I was a medic in an Airborne Infantry battallion. I feel the same way.
    well thats good to know. maybe its just the grunts that feel that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    Torture is not something the military should be involved with IMO. It should only be done by highly trained individuals within the CIA against KNOWN sources of vital, life saving information, not just suspects.
    While I was a medic for my battalion's scout platoon..... We were usually imbedded with men who were known as OGA(Other Government Agencies), which were typically members of the CIA. The had methods that could be considered toture, but didn't actually involve any physical harm against detainees. These types of interrogation tactics usually worked to gain viable information, but would likely be frowned upon by most civilians if they witnessed them. My problem with what has been leaked back through the media(in regards to torture) has involved rear echelon soldiers harshly treating prisoners. This isn't something that is common and to be honest was an isolated incident. Questioning our soldier's sense of right and wrong within the media is definitely a morale dampener from my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    What i find interesting when I talk to soldiers there or their family. Pretty much universally they say that things in Iraq are much better than the media shows. They say they've seen huge improvements in quality of life there, as well as in the iraqi army/police stepping up and gaining in skill + quality
    That's a double sided coin, b/c in Afghanistan it is getting worse with the influx of foreign fighters joining the Jihad. We were attacked several times over there by fighters that were of Chechen descent and I have never seen anything in the media in regards to that. This was a problem four to five years ago and from what I've heard from friends still "in," it has only gotten worse.
  

  
 

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