[anabolicrhino]

Dow climbs over 280 points to end at record high in N.Y.+

Does it bother anyone else that the stockmarket keeps going up without any economic factor that might justify trader confidence???

The only factor i see is that the US national debit was cut in half
since 2004 but...

[Frank Costanza]

Retail figures were up.



NEW YORK — Wall Street soared Thursday, propelling the Standard & Poor's 500 index and Dow Jones industrials to record highs as bright spots among generally sluggish retail sales allowed investors to toss aside concerns about the health of the economy.

The rally, which included the Dow's biggest one-day gain since March 2003, was perhaps surprising given the fact that there was no extraordinary announcent or other catalyst usually seen with such a huge gain, and that it came before most companies have announced their second-quarter earnings. The rise also marked a sharp contrast to the start of the week, when stocks fell sharply amid concerns that some hedge funds could buckle under ill-placed bets on the housing sector.

But investors, heartened by signs of a happy and spending consumer, clearly decided to put some bets on the table. Though retail sales generally appeared to be crimped last month by higher gasoline prices and a tepid housing market, and the outlook for the coming months was difficult to ascertain, the overall reading wasn't as dour as some investors expected.

Several reports beat Street expectations -- notably that of Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT), the world's largest retailer, which posted a better-than-expected 2.4 percent jump in sales at stores open at least a year.


"It's relief that things weren't as bad as people expected," said Bill Schultz, chief investment officer at McQueen, Ball & Associates, referring to the retailers' reports and the economy at large. "We're maybe getting slower growth but not the fall-of-the-cliff economic scenarios," he said of investors' reading of the economy.

But, Schultz said, "I think it is, over the near-term, a little bit over done, certainly on a two-day basis," he added, referring to the rally.

According to preliminary calculations, the S&P 500 rose 28.94, or 1.91 percent, to 1,547.70, above its record close of 1,539.18, set June 4.

The Dow shot up 283.86, or 2.09 percent, to 13,861.73; its previous record close is 13,676.32, also set June 4.

The Nasdaq composite index rose 49.94, or 1.88 percent, to 2,701.73. The index, bloated by the late 1990s tech boom, is nowhere near its closing record of 5,048.62, set in March 2000.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

Dow climbs over 280 points to end at record high in N.Y.+

Does it bother anyone else that the stockmarket keeps going up without any economic factor that might justify trader confidence???

The only factor i see is that the US national debit was cut in half
since 2004 but...

Highest percentage of home ownership in history, lowest unemployment rates in how many years? lots of factors out there, just democrats choose to ignore them so they can bash bush and his policies.

[CDB]

Ain't quite that simple. Prices go up in inflation, that includes stock prices. We might have record home ownership but last I saw despite that record and despite the fact that the housing market is still doing okay average equity is low because people keep refinancing and spending. Monetizing a notional asset gain by increasing your leverage against it and disapating the proceeds on instant gratification isn't a good idea. It will keep consumer spending going for a while which is necessary to support inflationary policy.

In short the stock market is nothing special, and as Henry Hazzlett was fond of doing you can break out the traditional stats the government likes to air and show how they can support quite different conclusions than most are lead to believe.

[Squeaks4ver]

our market and buisness world isn't hurt but the political lies of the left!!!! lol

[zbtboy]

Foreclosures are at there highest levels in years, consumer debt continues to get deeper, and the cost of college continues to go through the roof. This economy is not as good as the Bush administration says it is, and its not as bad as the Democrats think it is either.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by zbtboy

Foreclosures are at there highest levels in years, consumer debt continues to get deeper, and the cost of college continues to go through the roof. This economy is not as good as the Bush administration says it is, and its not as bad as the Democrats think it is either.

Yup. You can BS all you want, the stats can be cast in many different ways. If you understand inflationary bubbles, they usually don't look as pretty as the current admin, be it Republican or Democrat, would like you to believe.

[zbtboy]

Another factor as to why the stock market is doing well is due to the fact companies are doing everything they can to show a "profit" so their stocks hold value. The companies that I'm directly involved with are simply laying people off to make the bottom line. Their revenues haven't gone up, their spending has been cut, and they save money by letting go of good workers, leaving more work for those left to do.

Another thing these companies are doing is outsourcing work. My group is lucky that we're not losing our jobs and just new work will be hired from abroad (Brazil in this case). The bad thing about that is now I cant get a promotion cause it will be going to some Brazilian. Raise increases have been flat for a long time too. And 90% of the manufacturing jobs that were around in the mid-90's are now gone.

I talk to a lot of people working at other companies around the country and they tell me similar things.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by zbtboy

And 90% of the manufacturing jobs that were around in the mid-90's are now gone.

Oh they're not gone, not conceptually at least. While manufacturing payrolls dwindle the jobs move conceptually if not literally on to the government payrolls, where they usually earn higher salaries and get better benefits. It makes the stats look good at a glance, but when you realize the jobs are dependent on tax revenue and that the higher compensation both monetary and otherwise requires a concurrent increase in productivity from the remaining privately employed workforce just to cover the switch, much less advance their own standard of living, things become far less rosy.

[spunkles182]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

Dow climbs over 280 points to end at record high in N.Y.+

Does it bother anyone else that the stockmarket keeps going up without any economic factor that might justify trader confidence???

The only factor i see is that the US national debit was cut in half
since 2004 but...

the artlicle is flat out wrong if it says there is no economic factor. like bobo said retail sales are up. a good indicator is Abercrombie and fitch. their sales went up 2% in june. so people either have excess money to spend or they were holding back and now have more confidence in the economy to start spending money.

also the stock price is determined by alot of other arbitrary factors as well. for instance a company could take on debt to buy back stock and thus increase the stock price and they could also issue more stock to pay back debt and thus lowering the stock price.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by spunkles182

the artlicle is flat out wrong if it says there is no economic factor. like bobo said retail sales are up. a good indicator is Abercrombie and fitch. their sales went up 2% in june. so people either have excess money to spend or they were holding back and now have more confidence in the economy to start spending money.

Exhausted spending isn't inherrently good or bad, it depends what spurs it. If the government printed a nice cool few million and handed it out and that jacks up sales that's inflationary, and leads to problems down the road.

Last I saw capital goods spending, especially ex military spending, is flat. When you couple that with increased obselescence of a lot of new capital that's a bad thing.

[Squeaks4ver]

i also think it has something to do with me and my moods. When i am in a really good mood, the market breaks into new highs and the sun comes out! I have noticed this, i wonder if I some how was emotinally involved with the murder of JFK back in my past life

[spunkles182]

Originally Posted by CDB

Exhausted spending isn't inherrently good or bad, it depends what spurs it. If the government printed a nice cool few million and handed it out and that jacks up sales that's inflationary, and leads to problems down the road.

Last I saw capital goods spending, especially ex military spending, is flat. When you couple that with increased obselescence of a lot of new capital that's a bad thing.

not following ya. High end clothing, such as abercrombie and fitch, has a high income elasticity of demand. they very high sensitivity to economic upturns and downturns (there are many cheaper substitues), so if people are feeling good about their future income they will buy more if there is uncertainty, they will buy less.

[zbtboy]

Originally Posted by CDB

Oh they're not gone, not conceptually at least. While manufacturing payrolls dwindle the jobs move conceptually if not literally on to the government payrolls, where they usually earn higher salaries and get better benefits. It makes the stats look good at a glance, but when you realize the jobs are dependent on tax revenue and that the higher compensation both monetary and otherwise requires a concurrent increase in productivity from the remaining privately employed workforce just to cover the switch, much less advance their own standard of living, things become far less rosy.

While I dont argue your point,the instance I was referring to (the company i work for) is different. Two major companies in this city sent manu jobs to either mexico and/or china. Once this happened, the area went down the toilet. Both companies had very good unions and these people were making very good money with great benefits and as a result, the middle class here was very strong. Now the jobs are gone; replaced with retail, fast food, or non-union manu jobs that pay crap. The population is shrinking every year. College grads are going elsewhere for employment and these two companies where were doing great when the union jobs were here are now struggling.