Hillary Clinton: The most dishonest politician running.

[CNorris]

Yaser Esam Hamdi

Eventually he was released without charge. If he was even remotely guilty of what they say, there's no way they would have released him. He was held for 3 years without trial and without charge. He was a US citizen. He renounced his citizenship after release and went to Saudi Arabia. The guy may be a piece of ****, but he was innocent.

They found him in Afghanistan among the Taliban. If that doesnt land you in Gitmo, we arent doing enough as a country. Its too bad he is free, and I am proud to live in a country that gives a man like that a vacation in Gitmo.

[Totality]

Rights have been taken away from me? You mean the right to call Osama in his cave in Pakistan without getting my call monitored? You mean my right to plan terrorist attacks? Tell me, in what way has you life been effected by the Patriot act? Have you been thrown in jail? Do you know anyone that has been thrown in jail? Have you even heard of an innocent person that has been throw in jail because of the patriot act? You are a fool if you think some invisible phantom civil rights need to be protected before our safety. I personally dont think the president should need a warrant to spy on terrorists or monitor calls made from the US to Al Quaida. And I am glad Bush has the balls to do not only what is right, but what is necessary and reasonable to protect my right to live. I could care less about my right to call Osama without being monitored.

Also, if you think Bush is wiping his ass with the Constitution, I cant even imagine a horrible enough analogy to the way Abe Lincoln treated it. Lincold must have wiped his ass, his dogs ass, spit upon and then soaked the constitution in nuclear waste.

Go ahead and move to Canada if you want to be surrounded by people that can call Al Quada without being monitored by the Government. I will enjoy the safety that reasonable smart countries like the US and UK provide for their citizens.

Keep in mind you are speaking with a history professor, so I agree with your Lincoln assessment. Not a big fan.

Have there been instances of the patriot act being a problem in my personal life, of course not, have there been for others yes. In fact I was reading a story not too long ago about a ME immigrant who was thrown in jail. Keep in mind, these have long term effects.

You are so blinded by your political affiliation you do not see what is going on in front of you

[CNorris]

Keep in mind you are speaking with a history professor, so I agree with your Lincoln assessment. Not a big fan.

Have there been instances of the patriot act being a problem in my personal life, of course not, have there been for others yes. In fact I was reading a story not too long ago about a ME immigrant who was thrown in jail. Keep in mind, these have long term effects.

You are so blinded by your political affiliation you do not see what is going on in front of you

You think that I respect the political opinion of professors? Quite the opposite. Sure professors are good with ideas and concepts, but very poor on relating them to reality. Look at Ward Churchill and the countless other liberal wingnut professors.

And I am a huge fan of Lincoln. The north won the war. If they hadn't, I cant imaging how much more blood would have been shed.

I am not blinded by a political affiliation, my eyes are quite open to reality. My eyes are closed however to paranoid delusional thoughts that my government is out to get innocent people and abuse its power. Trust me if that happens I will be the first one to sign up for a militia to overthrow it. I just don't see locking up terrorist, or a person that goes and hangs out with terrorists, or calls terrorist over seas a problem. Its a necessary step. If you dont want to go to jail, dont hang out with Osama. Its pretty simple. And I am not threatened by some terrorists getting water boarded.

[Totality]

You think that I respect the political opinion of professors? Quite the opposite. Sure professors are good with ideas and concepts, but very poor on relating them to reality. Look at Ward Churchill and the countless other liberal wingnut professors.

And I am a huge fan of Lincoln. The north won the war. If they hadn't, I cant imaging how much more blood would have been shed.

I am not blinded by a political affiliation, my eyes are quite open to reality. My eyes are closed however to paranoid delusional thoughts that my government is out to get innocent people and abuse its power. Trust me if that happens I will be the first one to sign up for a militia to overthrow it. I just don't see locking up terrorist, or a person that goes and hangs out with terrorists, or calls terrorist over seas a problem. Its a necessary step. If you dont want to go to jail, dont hang out with Osama. Its pretty simple. And I am not threatened by some terrorists getting water boarded.

I am not asking for your respect, it is meaningless to me. I do not know you and do not respect your opinions on this matter.


With regard to lincoln, the north won the war, very good. I am impressed thus far. However, you do not seem to realize that he is one of the primary reasons for executive power problems today. Also, he is not the reason for winning the war. You might want to do a bit more research on the topic.

You last paragraph really has nothing to respond to, so I will leave it as it is

[Tiberius]

You think that I respect the political opinion of professors? Quite the opposite. Sure professors are good with ideas and concepts, but very poor on relating them to reality. Look at Ward Churchill and the countless other liberal wingnut professors.

And I am a huge fan of Lincoln. The north won the war. If they hadn't, I cant imaging how much more blood would have been shed.

I am not blinded by a political affiliation, my eyes are quite open to reality. My eyes are closed however to paranoid delusional thoughts that my government is out to get innocent people and abuse its power. Trust me if that happens I will be the first one to sign up for a militia to overthrow it. I just don't see locking up terrorist, or a person that goes and hangs out with terrorists, or calls terrorist over seas a problem. Its a necessary step. If you dont want to go to jail, dont hang out with Osama. Its pretty simple. And I am not threatened by some terrorists getting water boarded.

The thing you aren't seeing is that the government also gets to define who a terrorist is. They are also the ones who tell us that these people were calling terrorists or hanging out with terrorists.

For all you know Hamdi could have been in Afghanistan doing volunteer humanitarian work feeding the hungry or some crap. Heck he could have been preaching non-violent and speaking out against the Taliban.

You know how we "identified" Hamdi as Taliban? We asked local warlords. We said to local warlords "we'll pay you X dollars for every Taliban member you give us." So they rounded up everyone they felt like and said "these people are Taliban, give us our money." Simple as that. That's why the Supreme Court is going to hear the cases of all the Gitmo detainees; most aren't even remotely related in any way shape or form to terrorists or the Taliban. It's why Gitmo has a good chance of being closed down soon.



You have waaaaaaaaay too much trust in your government, man. Way too much trust. Do you have any lobbyists on your payroll? If not, you shouldn't trust the government with ANYTHING.

[CNorris]

The thing you aren't seeing is that the government also gets to define who a terrorist is. They are also the ones who tell us that these people were calling terrorists or hanging out with terrorists.

For all you know Hamdi could have been in Afghanistan doing volunteer humanitarian work feeding the hungry or some crap. Heck he could have been preaching non-violent and speaking out against the Taliban.

You know how we "identified" Hamdi as Taliban? We asked local warlords. We said to local warlords "we'll pay you X dollars for every Taliban member you give us." So they rounded up everyone they felt like and said "these people are Taliban, give us our money." Simple as that. That's why the Supreme Court is going to hear the cases of all the Gitmo detainees; most aren't even remotely related in any way shape or form to terrorists or the Taliban. It's why Gitmo has a good chance of being closed down soon.



You have waaaaaaaaay too much trust in your government, man. Way too much trust. Do you have any lobbyists on your payroll? If not, you shouldn't trust the government with ANYTHING.

Why would the government waste its ****ing time with someone they didnt have good reason to believe was fighting with the Taliban. Its an absurd reach to think He was just hanging out near the Taliban just when the US attacked Afghanistan. EVERYONE around there knew that Osama was there and they we responsible months in advance. I'll give you the absurd benefit of the doubt and say that he was there giving food to people that happened to live near the Taliban. Just for being stupid enough to be anywhere near that area at that time, he deserved to get locked up. I trust our military officials far more than some delusional conspiracy theorists on the internet who believe Bush is out to take every one of our civil rights so he can become a dictator like the world has never seen. The idiots that are scared of the patriot act are among the foolish paranoid conspiracy nut jobs that think 911 was an inside job.

[Totality]

Why would the government waste its ****ing time with someone they didnt have good reason to believe was fighting with the Taliban. Its an absurd reach to think He was just hanging out near the Taliban just when the US attacked Afghanistan.

They are bodies to throw out ot the public to say look what we have found. It is actual a simple concept

EVERYONE around there knew that Osama was there and they we responsible months in advance. I'll give you the absurd benefit of the doubt and say that he was there giving food to people that happened to live near the Taliban. Just for being stupid enough to be anywhere near that area at that time, he deserved to get locked up. I trust our military officials far more than some delusional conspiracy theorists on the internet who believe Bush is out to take every one of our civil rights so he can become a dictator like the world has never seen. The idiots that are scared of the patriot act are among the foolish paranoid conspiracy nut jobs that think 911 was an inside job.

So if you are in the area you deserve to be locked up? Wow, I can see you truly are concerned with freedoms. Also, if the US was so concerned with OBL, we would be using all our forces to find him, not be sittingin Iraq

[anabolicrhino]

The US government has disinformation trolls too ya know!

[CNorris]

They are bodies to throw out ot the public to say look what we have found. It is actual a simple concept

They had that with the guy the caught in my home state that was part of the 911 conspiracy. They had the American Taliban guy. They had countless others the sent to gitmo that were guilty. They didnt need another arab to falsely accuse to make any case to anyone.

So if you are in the area you deserve to be locked up? Wow, I can see you truly are concerned with freedoms. Also, if the US was so concerned with OBL, we would be using all our forces to find him, not be sittingin Iraq

If you are fighting in the area near the taliban when they were clearly going to be attacked and you had months of warning, you should be locked up not only because of the fact that you are almost surely fighting with them, but if you arent you are too stupid to be living among free people.

America is not overly concerned with Osama because he is not a threat any more. And maybe moveon.org or Rosie dont tell you, but Osama is in Pakistan, in an area their president does not control. That area of the country is very hostile towards the Pakistani pro-American government, and they don't have the guts to go in there and get Osama, or let the Americans do it. Even if they had the guts, he is so well protected by the villiages up there that it would be incredibly difficult to find him.

Why would we worry about some terrorist that has his hands tied when we have civilians being bombed by IED's all over Iraq. That is just a childish and not very well thought out question. There is a reason children tend to be so liberal. They don't have the critical thinking skills to relate Idealism to reality.

[Totality]

Why would we worry about some terrorist that has his hands tied when we have civilians being bombed by IED's all over Iraq. That is just a childish and not very well thought out question. There is a reason children tend to be so liberal. They don't have the critical thinking skills to relate Idealism to reality.

MY last comment on the issue: why is it that you do not address what I say? Just curious.

[CNorris]

MY last comment on the issue: why is it that you do not address what I say? Just curious.

Why do you come to a forum when you cant even read? Just curious.

[Totality]

Why do you come to a forum when you cant even read? Just curious.

actually I did read, and you barely addressed what was said to you. That is fine, I will leave the thread permanently knowing that the only thing that you seem content with is sitting blindly as your "party" tells you what to do. Bravo!!!!!

[RBKing]

she has my vote!

Damn Chad, you shatter the stereotype of the skinny punk leftist dweeb. Maybe you have too much aromitization going on, and its getting to your brain chemistry.

[CNorris]

actually I did read, and you barely addressed what was said to you. That is fine, I will leave the thread permanently knowing that the only thing that you seem content with is sitting blindly as your "party" tells you what to do. Bravo!!!!!

OK so using logic and reason is not blindly following a party? Typical left wing delusions. Go back to Moveon.org and your Michael Moore propaganda films and you NYT. You are a blind sheep to your left wing emotional no logic politics.

[Totality]

OK so using logic and reason is not blindly following a party? Typical left wing delusions. Go back to Moveon.org and your Michael Moore propaganda films and you NYT. You are a blind sheep to your left wing emotional no logic politics.

Ok I promise this is my last comment: I am a republican you . Now with that said good bye

[Dwight Schrute]

The thing that bothers me is the failure for the media or people to to see that since Bill left office, this has been the single most orchestrated rise to power that I've seen in a long time. Even GW wasn't this calculated because he simply didn't have to be. The move to New York (yeah, she's a new yorker.. )...becoming a Senator (a New York Senator for obvious reasons), gaining political and financial support from the New York area....the "moderate" and ever changing opinion to fit the public sentiment.....drumming up loads and loads of political capital because people know her and Bill are the 800lb gorilla.....its just a very orchestrated and calculated rise to power.

I would like to think that at some point a politician believes in something. Of course they have to play the game but I would like to believe that when I look at a president I can think that in some small fashion he/she got elected on some sort of principal. With Hillary I don't see this at all. I see a cold, calculated rise to power. She extremely intelligent so I'm not real worried IF she gets elected...in fact I see her doing better than most but the simple fact people can't see her maneuvering and her obvious thirst for power bothers me.

With GW and Bill you could easily see traits in them in which people liked....a charisma and some sort of solid ground in terms of what they believe in. They won their respected primaries based on these traits (whether you agreed or not). With Hillary I don't see any of this. I see politicians following along out of fear because if not, the 800lb gorilla will be coming around once elected.

Al Sharpton following Hillary instead of Obama? Uh huh...

[Rufio]

Uh, are we forgetting that John McCain blasted far right nutjobs like Jerry Falwell, distancing himself from them, and then had a campaign rally at Falwell's university? Really, who doesn't lie? If you need an example of Bush lying, there's the fact that he said he was not concerned about Osama Bin Laden at a press conference, and when this quote was brought up during the 2004 elections he outright denied saying it.


On top of that, the WORST presidential lie in modern times -- the denial of selling weapons to Iran and using the money to fund Nicaraguan terrorists, came from the Republican Messiah himself, Ronald Reagan. He even got caught on national TV accidentally reading off his instructions that he should act surprised.


Both Democrats and Republicans lie. To be liberal means you want to change the status quo. To be conservative means you want to keep it the same or feel it's been changed to much already. This is what amuses me about all these die-hard party loyalists. They act like one should always be liberal or conservative, as if the status quo is ALWAYS bad or ALWAYS good.


And ...

OK so using logic and reason is not blindly following a party? Typical left wing delusions. Go back to Moveon.org and your Michael Moore propaganda films and you NYT. You are a blind sheep to your left wing emotional no logic politics.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Anyone that votes for Hitlary will deserve it when the US gets attacked by an Iranian Nuclear weapon.

LMFAO. Someone's been watching too much Glenn Beck ...

[Benderzzz]

We all are in the same boat here. It seems that we are all divided deeper than ever before. Remember the pledge of aligance (sp). Our division is our weakness and the victory for our enemies, which are quite a few now a days. Our politicians sit up there in there mansions sitting on a hill looking down on us middle- lower class citizens with a smile on their face. Spending our money we earned through our hard labor (physical and mental). They get huge lengthy vacations every year and our current president is the worst about that. . Our governement now has more hands in more places than ever before. That is to say that the government is the biggest it has been in history. Our governments solution to every problem we face is throw more of our money at it. That has never worked and never will. The politicians are supposed to work for us not vise versa. Sadly that is the way things are now. Issues being brought up now are just there to appease us and keep us happy until we vote for them. Like universal health care, war in Iraq, no child left behind (Ted Kennedy was the author and current president was the signer) Hillary Clinton talking about a shared wealth system (scary), Immigration reform, and global warming.

Universal health care would be great if it worked the way they say it does but it doesnt. Our taxes will sky rocket because who else is going to pay for it, the money well not fall out of the sky. Dont get me wrong I would like nothing more than to have it work the way they say i.e everyone gets free doctor visits,surgeries, medicines etc. Lets face it all that is astronomical in expense. Something has to be done on this issue but not this.

Iraq is probably the toughest issue facing us. If we pull out of Iraq what do you think is going to happen. When we left vietnam over a million people were murdered but hey it wasnt our problem any longer. The fact is that war is hell and if we go to war we should do it full force not the way we did. We never should have gone in their in the first place but 99% of our politicians voted for it. So we have been there for 3 years now and little progress has been made. I really have no solutions for this issue accept either go for it all and leave nothing off the table or get the hell out now cause if we continue like we are we dont have a chance to gain any ground. Dont forget we funded Saddam and his loyalists before he became a tyrant dictator. We also built up Bin Laden to fight the Communists. Go figure

No child left behind is being misrepresented as a Bush Bill but in fact was a liberal Bush deal. Just had to say that becuase I get tired of Teachers telling me how bad they have it now because of Bush's bill.

Hillary Clinton is a socialist through and through the more I listen to her. However she is very manipulating and genius in the way she manipulates. Painting the poor people as victims, coming close but not quite stating it, that somehow they arent able to provide, raise and protect their kids so the democrats can come in and save the day for them. I have never seen a democrat save a poor person from my experiences but I have witnessed people doing it on their own accord through hard work and self improvement, and I believe that is the only way anyone can

Immigration Reform is or was a hot topic. The "Republicans" abandoned their base by allowing people that break the law intentionally to be rewarded with citizenship to this country. Not fair to the base but more importantly to the people that go through the process and have never broken a law and wait years to obtain it. That is terrible to just walk over all the immigrants that have done it the right way and pretty much say . Regan did it in 86 and thank God it didnt happen in 07.

Global Warming is a political issue now and it makes Al Gore feel important. All I have to say is that Gore uses more power and pollutes 10 times what the average american does on a day to day basis. But lets keep giving him more money so he can have another mansion to laugh at us all in.

[Rufio]

Um, I'm not gonna get into all of that, but we funded Saddam WHILE he was a dictator. We turned on him when he invaded Kuwait.

[Benderzzz]

i was just rambling a bit i know but hey what political statement doesnt
thanks for the correction
the result and means is still the same however, he used our money we gave to the government in hopes that they would use it to the betterment of our country. but hey we all make mistakes.