Michael Bloomber and his party

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    Michael Bloomber and his party


    Just reading at CNN that Bloomberg has officially dropped out of the republican party and is now listed as an unaffiliated political member. He just had a recent interview with the governator about a possibility of running together, with Arny as VP. I have also heard Chuck Hagel.

    What do you guys think, Is Bloomy and his money worth a look? As a native NYer I give him just as much credibility as Rudy and with his $ you never know.

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    man 12 hours later, and the tumbleweed roles by
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTotality View Post
    man 12 hours later, and the tumbleweed roles by
    Sorry about that, just woke up! Bloomy and his $5 billion dollar net worth could take a stab at the white house, but I doubt he will do much. He is way too liberal for the republicans(anti-gun and pro-abortion) and the dems don't trust anyone with that much money, especially since he left the democratic party to run for mayor of NYC as a republican because the field was less crowded(?) and now has left the republican party for pretty much the same reason. I can't see anyone trusting him, he might jump to the socialist party next if he thinks it will win him the primary. Seriously, he would only siphon votes from the dems, like Nader, because he is too liberal for the conservative republicans, even with the his business background. I say he should stay home and save the cash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecski View Post
    Sorry about that, just woke up! Bloomy and his $5 billion dollar net worth could take a stab at the white house, but I doubt he will do much. He is way too liberal for the republicans(anti-gun and pro-abortion) and the dems don't trust anyone with that much money, especially since he left the democratic party to run for mayor of NYC as a republican because the field was less crowded(?) and now has left the republican party for pretty much the same reason. I can't see anyone trusting him, he might jump to the socialist party next if he thinks it will win him the primary. Seriously, he would only siphon votes from the dems, like Nader, because he is too liberal for the conservative republicans, even with the his business background. I say he should stay home and save the cash.
    Interesting.....


    I think he actually might stand a chance due to his money. If he comes in as an indy, which he most likely will, then he stands a shot, especially with a legit VP candidate. (what a run on sentence)

    I think he might hurt both. Its funny to me that the candidates who get the nomination might not have even declared yet (Thompson and Gore)
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    It will be interesting if he indeed runs as an Indy. He could really shake up the way the other parties run their campaigns as it would be even more important to get the base out due to potential losses with the moderates. I'm not really sure where he would take the votes from, Dems or Republicans so that's going to be interesting to watch as well. From a Civics point of view this will be fun, but in the real world it probably won't affect much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTotality View Post
    Just reading at CNN that Bloomberg has officially dropped out of the republican party and is now listed as an unaffiliated political member. He just had a recent interview with the governator about a possibility of running together, with Arny as VP. I have also heard Chuck Hagel.

    What do you guys think, Is Bloomy and his money worth a look? As a native NYer I give him just as much credibility as Rudy and with his $ you never know.

    Arnold can't be a VP candidate for the same reason he can't be a Pres candidate. In order to be a VP you must be a natural born citizen of the US. That means you either have to be born in the US or one of your parents has to have been a US citizen. Arnold fits neither of those descriptions; he was born to Austrian parents in Austria. He become a naturalIZED citizen and thus cannot run for President or Vice President.


    Anyway, if Bloomberg really is running as an independent, this seals the deal for the Democratic party. i.e. it means whoever wins the Democratic Primary will be our next president.


    Get ready for President Hillary Clinton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    Arnold can't be a VP candidate for the same reason he can't be a Pres candidate. In order to be a VP you must be a natural born citizen of the US. That means you either have to be born in the US or one of your parents has to have been a US citizen. Arnold fits neither of those descriptions; he was born to Austrian parents in Austria. He become a naturalIZED citizen and thus cannot run for President or Vice President.


    Anyway, if Bloomberg really is running as an independent, this seals the deal for the Democratic party. i.e. it means whoever wins the Democratic Primary will be our next president.


    Get ready for President Hillary Clinton.
    I am not sure you are right about this. The discussion was about VP. You might be right, consdiering if something happens to the PResident and the VP takes over. COuld be interesting, however if he runs I see Hagel as the running mate.

    I also dont think this necessarily leads to Hillary taking it. I think Maya Mike has a legit shot
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTotality View Post
    I am not sure you are right about this. The discussion was about VP. You might be right, consdiering if something happens to the PResident and the VP takes over. COuld be interesting, however if he runs I see Hagel as the running mate.

    I also dont think this necessarily leads to Hillary taking it. I think Maya Mike has a legit shot
    He only has a shot if he runs as a Democrat, and then he has to actually win the primary. If he were to run as a Dem and win the Dem primary, he would be our next president without question. The problem there is actually winning the Dem primary.

    If he runs as an Independent, he will lose. Plain and simple. No Independent can or ever will win the Presidency. Ever. Our system is not built that way.

    If he runs as an Independent, he will take away all the moderate Republican votes and most of the fiscally conservative Democrats. There aren't too many fiscally conservative Democrats though. There are a TON of fiscally conservative republicans who don't give a crap about social issues. Bloomberg would get all of them. That would split the Republican party. I'm guessing Bloomberg would get about 60% of the Republicans to vote for him. Maybe more. He'll probably win a few states. First time ever IIRC an Independent will have won any states.

    The end result though will be Hillary with about 40% of the vote, Bloomberg with about 35% of the vote, and the Republican candidate with 25%.

    Remember to keep in mind, a lot of people think of Hillary as "Mrs. BILL Clinton". People still love Bill. I guarantee if Bill could run again he'd win easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    He only has a shot if he runs as a Democrat, and then he has to actually win the primary. If he were to run as a Dem and win the Dem primary, he would be our next president without question. The problem there is actually winning the Dem primary.

    If he runs as an Independent, he will lose. Plain and simple. No Independent can or ever will win the Presidency. Ever. Our system is not built that way.

    If he runs as an Independent, he will take away all the moderate Republican votes and most of the fiscally conservative Democrats. There aren't too many fiscally conservative Democrats though. There are a TON of fiscally conservative republicans who don't give a crap about social issues. Bloomberg would get all of them. That would split the Republican party. I'm guessing Bloomberg would get about 60% of the Republicans to vote for him. Maybe more. He'll probably win a few states. First time ever IIRC an Independent will have won any states.

    The end result though will be Hillary with about 40% of the vote, Bloomberg with about 35% of the vote, and the Republican candidate with 25%.

    Remember to keep in mind, a lot of people think of Hillary as "Mrs. BILL Clinton". People still love Bill. I guarantee if Bill could run again he'd win easily.
    I'd disagree with a couple of points here, I don't think the Republicans would flock to Bloomberg, the social issues would kill him just as they are dooming Guilianni now, and the fact that he has flip-flopped parties would be a major no-no. Conservatives are just that, and they value loyalty and trust, and Bloomberg has neither.

    As for Billary, she gets the democratic nomination in a landslide, because people LOVE Bill. He would be elected leader for life by the people in this country if that was an option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecski View Post
    I'd disagree with a couple of points here, I don't think the Republicans would flock to Bloomberg, the social issues would kill him just as they are dooming Guilianni now, and the fact that he has flip-flopped parties would be a major no-no. Conservatives are just that, and they value loyalty and trust, and Bloomberg has neither.

    As for Billary, she gets the democratic nomination in a landslide, because people LOVE Bill. He would be elected leader for life by the people in this country if that was an option.

    I think you're missing something important. Very important. Most people who vote republican in the general election do not vote in the primary at all. It has long been known that the primaries are run by the extreme members of each respective party.

    The OVERWHELMING majority in this country do not have an official party affiliation and thus CANNOT vote in the primaries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    I think you're missing something important. Very important. Most people who vote republican in the general election do not vote in the primary at all. It has long been known that the primaries are run by the extreme members of each respective party.

    The OVERWHELMING majority in this country do not have an official party affiliation and thus CANNOT vote in the primaries.
    I concede that most people won't/don't vote in the primaries, but I still stand by the basic premise. Southern republicans are not going to vote for a rich, carpetbagging, turncoat New Yorker. Bloomberg will get trounced by the RNC's media blitz, and the only votes he gets will be from states like New York, Mass, and California - democratic states anyway! Can you see Bloomberg winning in the midwest or south? I can't.

    There's a reason the south has determined every recent presidential election, and this election will be no different. Fred Thompson would walk away with the election, and he hasn't even declared yet.
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    I dont think Thompson will take it. We still dont know what Gore will do, and if he is in, I think he willmost likely take it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecski View Post
    I concede that most people won't/don't vote in the primaries, but I still stand by the basic premise. Southern republicans are not going to vote for a rich, carpetbagging, turncoat New Yorker. Bloomberg will get trounced by the RNC's media blitz, and the only votes he gets will be from states like New York, Mass, and California - democratic states anyway! Can you see Bloomberg winning in the midwest or south? I can't.

    There's a reason the south has determined every recent presidential election, and this election will be no different. Fred Thompson would walk away with the election, and he hasn't even declared yet.
    I think you overgeneralize Southern "Republicans." Many don't want an increase in states rights and a decrease in the size of the federal government more than anything else. Bloomberg represents that.

    As long as he runs his campaign in a way Ross perot did with an "it's the economy, stupid" tagline, he'll get the majority of Republicans voting for him. Basically just refuse to address any of the "social" issues they try to sling at him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecski View Post
    I concede that most people won't/don't vote in the primaries, but I still stand by the basic premise. Southern republicans are not going to vote for a rich, carpetbagging, turncoat New Yorker. Bloomberg will get trounced by the RNC's media blitz, and the only votes he gets will be from states like New York, Mass, and California - democratic states anyway! Can you see Bloomberg winning in the midwest or south? I can't.

    There's a reason the south has determined every recent presidential election, and this election will be no different. Fred Thompson would walk away with the election, and he hasn't even declared yet.
    ...The RNC attacking him would effectively end any chance for Rudy. Bloomberg has a MUCH better record in NYC than Rudy ever had and is much more liked.

    ...The South is no longer as important to Dems as it once was. They can and will continue to loose the deep south but as long they win more in the South West and take back Ohio they'll do just fine electorally.

    ...Thompson isn't as conservative as he looks or people believe him to be. I think people will be shocked when they start looking at his record.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    I think you overgeneralize Southern "Republicans." Many don't want an increase in states rights and a decrease in the size of the federal government more than anything else. Bloomberg represents that.

    As long as he runs his campaign in a way Ross perot did with an "it's the economy, stupid" tagline, he'll get the majority of Republicans voting for him. Basically just refuse to address any of the "social" issues they try to sling at him.
    I think Bloomberg will take from both parties though. He'll pretty much take the middle of the road people who are sick of partisan politics. Now that will probably hurt the republican party more since a lot of people are fed up with this administration and now have someone else to vote for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    I think Bloomberg will take from both parties though. He'll pretty much take the middle of the road people who are sick of partisan politics. Now that will probably hurt the republican party more since a lot of people are fed up with this administration and now have someone else to vote for.
    I think the opposite. I think he would take considerably more from Hillary whose approval rating in terms of general election is extremely low.

    The same people who elected Bush twice will vote for someone and I can tell you right now, they wouldn't vote for Hillary at gun point. In fact Hillary on the ticket would energize the conservative party more than anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    I think the opposite. I think he would take considerably more from Hillary whose approval rating in terms of general election is extremely low.

    The same people who elected Bush twice will vote for someone and I can tell you right now, they wouldn't vote for Hillary at gun point. In fact Hillary on the ticket would energize the conservative party more than anyone.

    I only agree with your last point. Democrats are quite content with their field, not so for republicans. If Hagel runs as his VP, he will get very little support from Dems. Now where it will hurt dems is with the independant voters who right now are running away from the right as fast as possible. I dont remember the exact numbers but I saw a poll where 60-70% of Indys said they would not vote republican next year. (Yeah i know, polls at this point are quite useless). If those voters go to the left then the right has no chance at all. If Bloomberg takes away the indy's then we got ourselves a very interesting situation.

    All of this will be clearer come September when the Congress gets the report on the war. How many republicans split with the president and what will it do with the current state of the party?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    I only agree with your last point. Democrats are quite content with their field, not so for republicans.
    Not so. The anti war left can't stand Hillary.

    If Hagel runs as his VP, he will get very little support from Dems. Now where it will hurt dems is with the independant voters who right now are running away from the right as fast as possible. I dont remember the exact numbers but I saw a poll where 60-70% of Indys said they would not vote republican next year. (Yeah i know, polls at this point are quite useless). If those voters go to the left then the right has no chance at all. If Bloomberg takes away the indy's then we got ourselves a very interesting situation.
    Indy's poll better with Guiliani right now. Head to head with Hillary, Rudy wins.
    All of this will be clearer come September when the Congress gets the report on the war. How many republicans split with the president and what will it do with the current state of the party?
    They already have. Come 2008, Bush is basically irrelevant. It doesnt matter if Republicans split from Bush, they aren't supporting him for re-election. They are looking for another option and if Hillary is in the field, conservatives, moderates, neocons simply won't vote for her. To moderates she is liberal...to liberals she isn't liberal enough. She appeals to moderates and that exactly where Bloomberg will appeal too.
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    More people view her as "Mrs. Bill Clinton" than you realise, Bobo. She knows that's how she can get elected and that's where her campaign ads have been doing. Bill is always in them and will continue to be if she wants to get elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Not so. The anti war left can't stand Hillary.



    Indy's poll better with Guiliani right now. Head to head with Hillary, Rudy wins.


    They already have. Come 2008, Bush is basically irrelevant. It doesnt matter if Republicans split from Bush, they aren't supporting him for re-election. They are looking for another option and if Hillary is in the field, conservatives, moderates, neocons simply won't vote for her. To moderates she is liberal...to liberals she isn't liberal enough. She appeals to moderates and that exactly where Bloomberg will appeal too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    More people view her as "Mrs. Bill Clinton" than you realise, Bobo. She knows that's how she can get elected and that's where her campaign ads have been doing. Bill is always in them and will continue to be if she wants to get elected.
    Sorry, they don't. If they did, her poll numbers when it comes to the general election would be higher.

    She is TRYING to get people to see her that way....if they did she wouldn't be using him in campaign commericals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Sorry, they don't. If they did, her poll numbers when it comes to the general election would be higher.

    She is TRYING to get people to see her that way....if they did she wouldn't be using him in campaign commericals.
    I think She has enough support to win the general. I, as a democrat, am less concerned with her as the nominee than i am with who is the VP. The reason for my fear is cause I see another 2000-election ahead where she could lose the popular vote but still win electorally. I think if Richardson can move up in the polls or do well enough in the primary to warrant a VP spot then she'll definatley win the electoral vote cause he can deliver the mid-west states. Obama would be ideal as the VP only cause it would be a primer for the presidency but I dont see him helping her electorally. I might have to re-register as and Indy if she ever selects John Edwards cause Clinton/Edwards would be in an instant loser.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    If they did, her poll numbers when it comes to the general election would be higher.
    As much as i like reading polls, they are pretty much worthless at this time. I just went out and quickly found two polls; one had Clinton beating Rudy by 4 points, the other Rudy won by 10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    They already have. Come 2008, Bush is basically irrelevant. It doesnt matter if Republicans split from Bush, they aren't supporting him for re-election. They are looking for another option and if Hillary is in the field, conservatives, moderates, neocons simply won't vote for her. To moderates she is liberal...to liberals she isn't liberal enough. She appeals to moderates and that exactly where Bloomberg will appeal too.
    This was the point I was trying to make earlier, Hillary has the ability to win the democratic nomination but not the general election. Bloomberg would steal democratic voters from Hillary, he will not sway the conservatives, and the rest of the republicans will tow the party line to AVOID a win by Hillary. Voters hate her or love her, she is extremely polarizing, and Bill can't carry her through the general election. To me, all signs point to a republican win, and that's Thompson.
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    In terms of VP I think Biden could be a possible option for whomever gets the nom. It could be interesting if Gore joins in
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTotality View Post
    In terms of VP I think Biden could be a possible option for whomever gets the nom. It could be interesting if Gore joins in
    Biden is unelectable and THANK GOODNESS for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    Biden is unelectable and THANK GOODNESS for that.
    I dont think so, not saying that he will win the nomination, but he is still a viable option
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTotality View Post
    I dont think so, not saying that he will win the nomination, but he is still a viable option
    If you read some of his more flavorful quotes, you'd disagree. Within a week of announcing his candidacy he completely shot himself in the foot multiple times in interviews.
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    Bloom aint gonna run. hes just getting some attention so he can push his plans in NYC the guy has been a lame duck lately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    As much as i like reading polls, they are pretty much worthless at this time. I just went out and quickly found two polls; one had Clinton beating Rudy by 4 points, the other Rudy won by 10.
    Thats why you look at all of them.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...inton-227.html

    Second column.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecski View Post
    This was the point I was trying to make earlier, Hillary has the ability to win the democratic nomination but not the general election. Bloomberg would steal democratic voters from Hillary, he will not sway the conservatives, and the rest of the republicans will tow the party line to AVOID a win by Hillary. Voters hate her or love her, she is extremely polarizing, and Bill can't carry her through the general election. To me, all signs point to a republican win, and that's Thompson.
    Agree for the most part. Either Guiliani or Bloomberg appeal to moderates and indy's much better than Hillary. And conservatives will vote for just about anyone leaning to the right over Hillary. People make a big deal about social issues (mainly the media) with conservatives. They voted and love Reagan and he was pro choice before he became pro life. It was well known, they still voted for him and now he is an icon to them. But you won't hear that part in the news........conservatives are stubborn and never vote for anyone that isn't 100% conservative
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    Honestly I'm gonna vote for whoever lowers my taxes. Come on and show some love for the top bracket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
    Honestly I'm gonna vote for whoever lowers my taxes. Come on and show some love for the top bracket.
    Then you will vote Republican. Democrats will never lower taxes..quite the opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Then you will vote Republican. Democrats will never lower taxes..quite the opposite.
    Funny...I live in a local government thats heavily republican (State government too) and my taxes have gone up quite a bit in the last 6 years. And other than the that huge $250 rebate i get, i dont remember having my taxes cut by this administration. Lowering taxes is nothing but a tag line that the right uses to get votes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    Funny...I live in a local government thats heavily republican (State government too) and my taxes have gone up quite a bit in the last 6 years. And other than the that huge $250 rebate i get, i dont remember having my taxes cut by this administration. Lowering taxes is nothing but a tag line that the right uses to get votes.
    I've had my income, and property taxes go down as well as my home owners insurance that has been cut by 30%.

    Its the result of a newly elected Republican governor because thats what he said he was going to do once elected. He did it. So there is your tagline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    I've had my income, and property taxes go down as well as my home owners insurance that has been cut by 30%.

    Its the result of a newly elected Republican governor because thats what he said he was going to do once elected. He did it. So there is your tagline.
    Hey, there are always exceptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    Hey, there are always exceptions.
    Of course, but even challenging the notion that Republicans for the most part don't lower taxes and want smaller government is the equivalent to stating liberals want privatized health care.

    Stating its a tag line to get votes is quite funny because for the most part Bush did lower taxes......Democrats still haven't stopped the war and thats what got them elected. They actually funded it more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Then you will vote Republican. Democrats will never lower taxes..quite the opposite.
    Well, that's a little bit of a generalization. But yeah the vast majority of socialists ..... i mena democrats, like to tax tax tax. And when they dont' tax everyone at the very least they hose my bracket.

    I know I'm not the average guy, but I like to live modestly. I don't really care about having fancy cars, a mid level BMW is plenty for me. My house isn't that big because what the heck would I do with the extra space? Property ain't too big because what the heck would I do with the extra space?

    So, I usually find myself only needing like 100 grand a year. WHat do I do with the rest? Usually I reinvest it in my business. I expand. More jobs for folks in the area.

    My favorite thing to do with the extra money though is a little hobby of mine. I go shopping through the listing of properties that owe a lot of back taxes. I contact those people and get to know them. If they are cool, hard working people who either had something bad happen or are just struggling to make ends meet, I buy their house, put them up in a hotel, fix up the place, and then sell it back to them for $1. I got inspired by that show Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Man I love that stuff. Makes me cry every time and I'm not ashamed to say it.

    Anyway, you should see the look on people's faces when it happens. Let me tell you that's like the biggest "high" you could ever get. Cus not only do I get to save these people's homes, I get a chance to give back to the community. These folks are hard workers, and typically when folks like these lose their house, their life is over. They stop working, they get into drugs to escape, and sometimes even stoop to crime. These are good folks who deserve a break, and it's the greatest feeling in the world for me to be able to give it to them.


    Yeah so back on topic, the lower my taxes are, the more people I can help out, and the more people my company can employ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
    Well, that's a little bit of a generalization. .
    Well of course but its basically a talking point. And in your case, with capital gains being effected (since Bush dropped them to 15%), Republicans are definitely more on your side. That doesnt mean one is right or wrong...its just the facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Well of course but its basically a talking point. And in your case, with capital gains being effected (since Bush dropped them to 15%), Republicans are definitely more on your side. That doesnt mean one is right or wrong...its just the facts.

    Oh there are plenty of ways around capital gains thanks to stuff like CRTs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
    Oh there are plenty of ways around capital gains thanks to stuff like CRTs.
    That wasn't the point. Creative accounting is a given.
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