[jarhead]

These developements are just nuts. Getting some on the side can get you up to life in prison.

link:Michigan: if you stray, you may be locked away at Pandagon

[wrkn4bigrmusles]

thats oay... in the military you can get kicked out for havin an^l sex and oral... so go figure



but i hear they may have changed it.. i dunno

[dsade]

IMO if you are breaking a promise and not telling your spouse, then you are keeping your spouse via fraud. You are stealing time from someone who SHOULD have all information in order to either decide to put up with it, or regain their freedom through divorce.

You might also be putting that person's health at risk.

While it is a question of details (sentencing, honesty of the cheating ****ball, etc), I am ok with it being a criminal offense.

/yes, I have been cheated on several times
//yes, cheating enrages me
//it is not up to YOU to figure out what is important, then choose to tell or not tell. Can't keep the promise? Then don't MAKE the promise.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by dsade

IMO if you are breaking a promise and not telling your spouse, then you are keeping your spouse via fraud. You are stealing time from someone who SHOULD have all information in order to either decide to put up with it, or regain their freedom through divorce.

You might also be putting that person's health at risk.

While it is a question of details (sentencing, honesty of the cheating ****ball, etc), I am ok with it being a criminal offense.

/yes, I have been cheated on several times
//yes, cheating enrages me
//it is not up to YOU to figure out what is important, then choose to tell or not tell. Can't keep the promise? Then don't MAKE the promise.

I concur. If you make a vow, a promise, you keep that promise. Otherwise just stay single. 1 man, 1 woman for life. Thats just how its suppose to be. To me, anyone who cheats on someone, if its a spouse, girlfriend, or whatever, can't be trusted with anything. If they are the kind of person that cheats that way they will cheat on everything elese. They will take shortcuts and not work hard, and expect to get something for nothing. Sort of a "living cop-out". Never trust a cheater.

[Dr Liftalot]

I have mixed feelings, but cheating should just be used against the accused in divorce court. Not criminal court, i hardly consider a cheating husband or wife to be a criminal. Let alone a felon seems ridiculous, what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. We should never waist tax paying dollars on housing non violent offenders. This is truly a sign of the times, are people so insecure that they need a law to bind there partners to them.

Its called a divorce not jail time, this is truly against the constitution. Why don't we just execute people for J-walking that seems to make about the same amount of sense. I'm all for cheaters getting there own in the end, trust me. But overboard and ridiculous and way out of the legal limits of the government is not what i had in mind.


Just some common sense,
Dr liftalot

[dsade]

For the same reason we imprison Con Men, and do not simply leave it to Civil Court....it is called Fraud.

The relationship, for the most part, continues based on certain agreements of Fidelity. I, personally, would NEVER have married my ex-wife if I knew she would not stay faithful. I wasted 5 years of my life being with someone I consider an enemy..I want my 5 years back.

This person knowingly STOLE my time from me, and I consider it theft by fraud...period. Felony? maybe not. Crime? Most certainly.

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by dsade

For the same reason we imprison Con Men, and do not simply leave it to Civil Court....it is called Fraud.

The relationship, for the most part, continues based on certain agreements of Fidelity. I, personally, would NEVER have married my ex-wife if I knew she would not stay faithful. I wasted 5 years of my life being with someone I consider an enemy..I want my 5 years back.

This person knowingly STOLE my time from me, and I consider it theft by fraud...period. Felony? maybe not. Crime? Most certainly.

I understand what you went thru but making laws like that is just ridiculous. Life in prison or a felony? People make mistakes. Con men gain something tangible from their crimes, usually money. There is a difference. You can't put somebody in prison because they emotionally hurt someone. This should be a civil court matter.

[Dr Liftalot]

Originally Posted by dsade

For the same reason we imprison Con Men, and do not simply leave it to Civil Court....it is called Fraud.

The relationship, for the most part, continues based on certain agreements of Fidelity. I, personally, would NEVER have married my ex-wife if I knew she would not stay faithful. I wasted 5 years of my life being with someone I consider an enemy..I want my 5 years back.

This person knowingly STOLE my time from me, and I consider it theft by fraud...period. Felony? maybe not. Crime? Most certainly.

People change, relationships change, marriage dos not constituents owning someone or binding them in a monogamous relationship. Its both of your time, and it takes two to keep things working. For many reason's people become unfaithful. Which most are knowingly despicable, but none the less its not a crime vs humanity. Comparing a CON artist to someone who is unfaithful is not a fair compersent. Con artist go in knowing they are conning people, and usually are stealing from them. When most get married they don't go into it, with the pretext of cleaning them out or cheating. Also its fair to say you could have been stealing her time, and you also had the free will to walk away at any time. Which I'm guessing you did after you found out what she had done.


Also, a little background my parents are devoiced, My Mother cheated on my Farther, at the time they weren't even sleeping together and things weren't going good at all. Was i mad that she did that, Of course. Does she deserve going to jail, NO. Would I want a non violent person who works, pays there tax's to go to jail. NOPE, now the way i look at it..... I'm sorry you got hurt and your wife cheated on you. Believe me i know there's no bigger pain. But, why should i have to pay to house your wife in prison, because you decided to marry someone with low moral standards. Thats not my fault and perhaps its not even yours. But at the end of the day, its not worth footing the bill, the crime doesn't fit the punishment.


Also, what if your wife decided to divorce you because your lazy and don't live up to what you said you'd be, and considers it time lost. Do you think you should go to jail because she's invested time with you?


When it comes down to the blame game not many are ready to except that the place there in, is a manifestation of all the choices they've made themselves. Cheating or having sex with whoever you want is not a crime. Its very taboo and looked down upon as it should be if you choose to be in a monogamous relationship. Perhaps a radification at the divorce trail, perhaps noting which party ended it and why. That way a future spouse or husband could see the pattern's/betrayel from the previous relationship so they can make the choice wether to be with the person.

[dsade]

Tough subject, indeed.

As mentioned, I agree that this should not be a Felony, and I don't necessarily agree that there should be jailtime. I do think it should be fraud, though. Once the person commits the act of betrayal, they are bound by morality and honesty to confess.

Damn...I am bombarded with business matters, but I hope this thread stays active as it is both a timely issue and something indicative of the decline of our culture.

[Beau]

Adultery is truly a chicken-“stuff” thing to do. Period. When you say “I do” it means something. It is a vow; a three party agreement with God. It is about things such as integrity and character.

We ARE ALL responsible for the situations we put ourselves in or allow ourselves to fall into. BTW - the last time I checked, adultery wasn’t a “mistake” as many tout; unless someone tripped and their penis accidentally fell into the vagina of someone else. It isn’t like tripping on something you didn’t see; I think we all know what leads to sex and I would think few have mot been aware that their actions were heading in that direction.

Regardless of criminal sanctions; adultery should – 100% of the time – result in forfeiture by the unfaithful spouse of any and all assets attained during the marriage. Even if the couple decides to reconcile, the faithful spouse has to deal with emotional baggage for year to come. If someone steals from you, say $50,000, do they just have to say “I’m sorry” or is there some form of recompense that needs to occur? What kind of recompense can the infidel provide to the faithful spouse? What can they do to compensate them for choosing to destroy the trust and fidelity that existed? I could go on and on.

We are all big boys (and girls), take the high road and be faithful – or don’t get married.

You might think I have some definite opinions on this, huh?

[CDB]

Originally Posted by jarhead

I understand what you went thru but making laws like that is just ridiculous. Life in prison or a felony? People make mistakes. Con men gain something tangible from their crimes, usually money. There is a difference. You can't put somebody in prison because they emotionally hurt someone. This should be a civil court matter.

As should all fraud. Restitution and/or reparations should be the remedy for nonviolent fraud of all kinds, not imprisonment. What you do with your time is your own business in all cases. If you don't live up to your end of a contract you should be brought before a court to work out the remedy the person defrauded wants, not imprisoned. In DSADE's case he understandably wants his wasted time back, and he should have gotten a reasonable price for that wasted time.

Originally Posted by Dr Liftalot

But at the end of the day, its not worth footing the bill, the crime doesn't fit the punishment.

Exactly. What does he get out of sending her to prison? He gets to foot the bill for her room and board along with every other tax payer. That's ridiculous. The focus of punishment should be on restitution/reparations.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by Beau

We are all big boys (and girls), take the high road and be faithful – or don’t get married.

You might think I have some definite opinions on this, huh?

One question I don't see coming up, is there actually any real evidence humans are by nature monogamous? Some primates are, some aren't. Marriage itself, or monogamous relationships sans kids, or even with, might not be the biological norm for humans.

[Dr Liftalot]

Originally Posted by Beau

Adultery is truly a chicken-“stuff” thing to do. Period. When you say “I do” it means something. It is a vow; a three party agreement with God. It is about things such as integrity and character.

We ARE ALL responsible for the situations we put ourselves in or allow ourselves to fall into. BTW - the last time I checked, adultery wasn’t a “mistake” as many tout; unless someone tripped and their penis accidentally fell into the vagina of someone else. It isn’t like tripping on something you didn’t see; I think we all know what leads to sex and I would think few have mot been aware that their actions were heading in that direction.

Regardless of criminal sanctions; adultery should – 100% of the time – result in forfeiture by the unfaithful spouse of any and all assets attained during the marriage. Even if the couple decides to reconcile, the faithful spouse has to deal with emotional baggage for year to come. If someone steals from you, say $50,000, do they just have to say “I’m sorry” or is there some form of recompense that needs to occur? What kind of recompense can the infidel provide to the faithful spouse? What can they do to compensate them for choosing to destroy the trust and fidelity that existed? I could go on and on.

We are all big boys (and girls), take the high road and be faithful – or don’t get married.

You might think I have some definite opinions on this, huh?

I agree, but it should be limited since situations differ so much, who's going to decide? Also anyone who gets into a relationship is just as responsible and knows the risk of marriage. Therefore should suck it up, besides thats why we have civil courts/divorce courts, so if your wife decides to blow some guy you can in turn take the house. Usually under those circumstances the judge will side with the faithful party. Not to say i wouldn't be in favor of a file being placed after the marriage about the circumstances so future prospective partners of the unfaithful party would be able to do a quick reference and see what she/he did before hand.

Take this example for instance, guy losses his sex drive. No longer attracted to the wife(Rather jerk off then PIITB) the wife does what she can to try to sub-duce him and all messures fail. She tries to get a divorce but he won't sign the papers. Finally she sleeps with another guy. Now who's truly at fault here, was it the guy for not having the sex drive or the women. Tough to decide, and honestly has no place within a criminal court of justice.


What i don't understand is why people think they can bill people for there time (LOST?) . Last time i checked this is a free country, if you want you can spend your time with someone or go run a train on someone. Its a unfortunate reality, the law makes no sense, and runs closer to a Nazism government. So say they impose laws like this, where does it stop? You can't sign away your rights, that in it self is unconstitutional.


Also marriage is what you make of it, has anyone ever heard the separation of church and state. Marriage is a two part deal, part of it is a nice BIG TAX BREAK and Sharing property/finances.(GOVERNMENT) The rest of the moral promises which are just that, and have more to do with (CHURCH). These promises are not in the constitution, its your right to do what you want with whoever, you'd like as long as its consensual. (This is within your legal rights) on the flip side, its within your legal rights to divorce someone if you find there actions to become unbecoming and deceitful which is when the GOVERNMENT end of the deal is now nulled, now you divide what property,etc between the parties due to the circumstances. While you can use evidence of someone cheating, to help boost your case. You can't prosecute them for it because its within there legal rights.

If that makes any sense......

[dsade]

Is there evidence that says humans are not by nature murderous savages?

Is it realistic to then expect them to act like civilized people? Or do we, in fact, have to enact PENALTIES in order to make sure other people are not wronged...or at least that the injuring parties are punished in some way?