[rockhard_4eva]

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

[PastorofMuppets]

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

We shall never know the truth of the elections anymore because Chavez controls the electoral boards and process. Case in point...guess who just took over as Vice Prez? Yup, the former Chavez appointed head of the CNE (National electoral board).

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

Do a modicum of research on the impending financial disaster and lost liberties that is a direct result of Chavez' policies please, no offense, but you sound horribly ignorant of the subject.

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

Ah the old "the US fought a proxy war against commies in SA and Latin America" schtick"

In what reality is that an excuse for becoming a communist state and crushing any semblance of democracy and free enterprise?

The irony of ironies is that for all of Chavez' railing about the "evil empire" he certainly does not mind getting the bulk of his money from the US in terms of oil sales.

Put your money where you mouth is Hugo and cut of oil sales to the US!

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

See this is the grand assumption by folks. And it is as such:

If you don't like Chavez then you must be a Bush nuthugger.

Sorry, but even if Bush did not exist, Chavez would still be a colossal douchebag marxist.

[PastorofMuppets]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

1. Please provide proof of a US involvement in the 2002 (not 2001) coup. No, The Revolution will Not be Televised propaganda and Eva Golingers crap is NOT proof. No, not someone making a claim either. I really don't know why I am asking for this, noone has ever been able to provide it.

2. If you read Spanish you would know that if anyone has been demonizing and editorializing it would Chavez. There is nary a day that goes by where you don't hear about the "IMPERIALISTOSSS", or his cadenas where he takes over all of the television channels for his hour long propaganda readings. He finally stopped with the weekly claims of the impending US invasion since people started to call him the boy who cried wolf.

3. Chavez is not being "set up" as being anti-capitalism or anti-his own people", his actions and words blatantly show this. Read venezulean blogs and newspapers and you would see this.


I do agree however that Chavez is no threat to the US... as long as his alliance with Iran is strictly economic in nature. There are those rumored clandestine uranium mines being operated by Iranians/Cubans though......

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

[jmh80]

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

Hugo? (IP check Bobo???)



Anway - if anyone in Venezuala thinks Chavez is liberating the oil sector by nationalizing the oil installations - you are flat out assinine and need to be beaten about the head and shoulders until you understand the data from un-biased groups.

Since 2000, Venezuala pumps a half a million barrels less a day. That's what you get when you have business people trying to make engineering decisions. And not very experienced business people too.
Sometimes one can get in a bit over their heads when handed project(s) projects much bigger than building a 7-11.

EIA data show that total Venezuelan crude oil production in 2001 (the last full year before the Venezuelan strike) averaged about 3.1 million barrels per day, but by 2005 had fallen to about 2.6 million barrels per day — a 16 percent reduction.

I'm sure that's doing your economy some good, eh?

Venezuelan government officials dispute these figures, and provided data that indicates production has almost fully recovered to prestrike levels, but most available data indicate that the Venezuelan government data are overstated.

Can someone photo shop that quote from the Venezualans on Baghdad Bob???


Latin Business Chronicle

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by PastorofMuppets

1. Please provide proof of a US involvement in the 2002 (not 2001) coup. No, The Revolution will Not be Televised propaganda and Eva Golingers crap is NOT proof. No, not someone making a claim either. I really don't know why I am asking for this, noone has ever been able to provide it.

1) I have no proof for you. Please provide proof that the US was not involved in the 2001(planning) or the training and implementation of operatives in the 2002 coup. There is some evidence that the USA might have been involved in other Central and South American disputes. please see(Nicaragua 1848-1986, Guatemala, Chile,Panama, San Salvador, Cuba 1953-1990)

2. If you read Spanish you would know that if anyone has been demonizing and editorializing it would Chavez. There is nary a day that goes by where you don't hear about the "IMPERIALISTOSSS", or his cadenas where he takes over all of the television channels for his hour long propaganda readings. He finally stopped with the weekly claims of the impending US invasion since people started to call him the boy who cried wolf.

2) Leo espanol muy bien, gracias. Ya no se, tu creado Chavez es mal hombre? si es verdad! pero no nececito para liberation de gringos. El tiene mas oro de nergo. Eso es todo que es importante, no!

3. Chavez is not being "set up" as being anti-capitalism or anti-his own people", his actions and words blatantly show this. Read venezulean blogs and newspapers and you would see this.

3) I am not defending Chavez, I am questioning the motives behind the posturing of the USA. Of course the people challenge the policies of Chavez, they have every right to challenge him, That is what people should do when they are not satisfied with leadership!!!

If you were to compare the percentage of the Venezuelan population that are satisfied with Chavez policies vs the percentage of the Israeli population that are satisfied with Olmet, you may begin to see a double standard in US foriegn policy. Not to mention a comparison of the percentage of the US population that supports the Bush "surge" policy.

I do agree however that Chavez is no threat to the US... as long as his alliance with Iran is strictly economic in nature. There are those rumored clandestine uranium mines being operated by Iranians/Cubans though......

So, you do not accept US 2002 coup rumors, but you do accept
Iranian/Cuban Uranium mine rumors? Aye Carumba!!!

[PastorofMuppets]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

So, you do not accept US 2002 coup rumors, but you do accept
Iranian/Cuban Uranium mine rumors? Aye Carumba!!!

You are asking me to prove a negative when you were the one spouting the typical Chavista line of the US involvement in the 2002 coup?

Hilarious.

You keep referencing "posturing" by the US. I mean seriously, what "posturing" are you referring to, because I can probably count four to five times that the US has even bothered to respond to Chavez inane rambling, and I have completely lost count of the "posturing" that Chavez has done.

The US has gone out of its way NOT to respond to the daily "impending US invasion" garbage that keeps being spewed by Chavez. The US knows that any US response works in Chavez favor. Just take a look at how Chavez blew his lid when the US ambassador "dared" to suggest that Chavez follow his own constitution and compensate the owners of CANTV fairly and legally.

Of course Chavez has a back up plan, having already claimed that CANTV is "spying" on him and is going to use that as an excuse to nationalize CANTV regardless. And of course Chavez refuses to provide any proof of said spying.

Kind of like when VP Rangel made the claim that DirectTV was a tool of the imperialistos and was being used to spy on venezuelans.

As far as the uranium mine claim, at least my "rumor" is somewhat referenced by a head of state of Columbia that made the claim. Look it up, or do you find the Chavista claim of a Iranian "joint effort" to make "bicycles" in the jungle a bit of a stretch as well?

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by PastorofMuppets

You are asking me to prove a negative when you were the one spouting the typical Chavista line of the US involvement in the 2002 coup?

Hilarious.

You keep referencing "posturing" by the US. I mean seriously, what "posturing" are you referring to...

Yes , atleast we can agree that any reference to Chavez as a threat to the USA is hilarious!

The fact that we are debating the affairs of one Hugo Chavez as opposed to another world leader is the "fabricated posturing" to which I refer, it is the classic misdirection play,...USA struggles in a foriegn occupation(Iraq),...then spins tales of Chavez as if he alone is the only world leader in opposition to US world domination policies!


Kind of like when VP Rangel made the claim that DirectTV was a tool of the imperialistos and was being used to spy on venezuelans.

Well, now that DirectTV is owned by Ruppert Murdoch(FOX)
I am sure we will see what a "tool" can do in the "right" hands

As far as the uranium mine claim, at least my "rumor" is somewhat referenced by a head of state of Columbia that made the claim. Look it up, or do you find the Chavista claim of a Iranian "joint effort" to make "bicycles" in the jungle a bit of a stretch as well?

Yes, third party hearsay makes the best rumors

[rockhard_4eva]

Originally Posted by jmh80

Hugo? (IP check Bobo???)



Anway - if anyone in Venezuala thinks Chavez is liberating the oil sector by nationalizing the oil installations - you are flat out assinine and need to be beaten about the head and shoulders until you understand the data from un-biased groups.

Since 2000, Venezuala pumps a half a million barrels less a day. That's what you get when you have business people trying to make engineering decisions. And not very experienced business people too.
Sometimes one can get in a bit over their heads when handed project(s) projects much bigger than building a 7-11.


I'm sure that's doing your economy some good, eh?




Can someone photo shop that quote from the Venezualans on Baghdad Bob???


Latin Business Chronicle

Oops, I dant spell chek! If you must know, I am currently living in Toronto, Canada -- and yes its true, Canada is a communist country.

I have lived in CT, Israel and London, so I have been exposed to every bias in media that can exist. I cannot comment on cutting oil supplies, but its hard to get real data on a cartel. Perhaps a few member are secretly cutting supplies in order to create a percieved market shortage. Its hard to say with all the Chinese foreign investment.

[rockhard_4eva]

Originally Posted by PastorofMuppets

We shall never know the truth of the elections anymore because Chavez controls the electoral boards and process. Case in point...guess who just took over as Vice Prez? Yup, the former Chavez appointed head of the CNE (National electoral board).

True, but look what happened in 2000 and 04 - you will also never know the truth. However, it shouldn't be a surpise that people voted for him, well, poor people.


Do a modicum of research on the impending financial disaster and lost liberties that is a direct result of Chavez' policies please, no offense, but you sound horribly ignorant of the subject.

From the outside looking in, I agree. Now compare Saudi to Venez and Saudi has about 1/100th the "liberties" of Venez. And they support Sunni terrorism. Where was the US when Saudi went from bad to worse in terms of "liberties"...oh yes, they were drilling for oil in the desert.


Ah the old "the US fought a proxy war against commies in SA and Latin America" schtick"

In what reality is that an excuse for becoming a communist state and crushing any semblance of democracy and free enterprise?

That isn't an excuse. But I sure aint gonna trust no American after reading about em stories of the past.

The irony of ironies is that for all of Chavez' railing about the "evil empire" he certainly does not mind getting the bulk of his money from the US in terms of oil sales.

Put your money where you mouth is Hugo and cut of oil sales to the US!

That's the beauty of it. The US is still buying and Chavez is still selling. He is completing his objective. He is making money/power, and insulting the US at the same time. Incredible!


See this is the grand assumption by folks. And it is as such:

If you don't like Chavez then you must be a Bush nuthugger.

Sorry, but even if Bush did not exist, Chavez would still be a colossal douchebag marxist.

Would you prefer to live as a peasant in tsarist russia or communist russia. I'd prefer communist Russia. That doesn't make me a communist, that just means I'm choosing the best choice out of a group of bad choices.

[rockhard_4eva]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

Well, we should fear his fleet of F-16's. Oh wait, nevermind, they have no spare parts!

[jmh80]

It seemed like you were from/lived in Venez. from your post. I didn't mean to attack you. Sorry.

I'm saying that they aren't making as much as the could. If they are purposely doing that - they are f*cking retarded. The lost opportunity when oil was $70+ a barrel is mind boogling.
I'm saying they don't know how to operate any sort of plant to it's potential or designed rate. Forget anything complex to coax extra oil out of the ground or out of a barrel.

It's easier than you'd think to track how much they are making - most of their output is destined for the US. (Their crude is fairly nasty comparatively speaking - there aren't many international refineries that currently can process a small number of their crudes.)

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by rockhard_4eva

Would you prefer to live as a peasant in tsarist russia or communist russia. I'd prefer communist Russia. That doesn't make me a communist, that just means I'm choosing the best choice out of a group of bad choices.

How about life as a debt ridden clock puncher in a plutocracy
that mascarades as a beacon of freedom? Where civil liberties are removed in the name of freedom??...and people are "...killin' in the name of..."???

..but atleast we have the Super bowl!!!!