[DAdams91982]

Originally Posted by somewhatgifted

after some carefulll reflection i have decided i owe an apology. I am not a soldier and i am not in iraq i dont know what is going on is happening without me there and i cant ittelegently argue or banter with someone who has been/ is there. I apologize as i sit in the comfort of my home knowing i most likely wont lose my life over this issuse and should not speak negativley with someone who may. I should stay out of these threads as i really dont know that much and apologize for appearing ignorant, it wont be the last time either, but i am a learning human being. I wasnt drunk or drinking just mad but good call nonetheless.

Its no problem SWG... I stopped posting when the "Killing Iraqis" confliction came up. Nothing good would have come from a response to that, since nothing but opinions, and conflicting emotion would have filled that post. As you can see why steering clear of these can be a big avoidance of conflict.

Adams

[somewhatgifted]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DAdams91982 again.

[Irish_Rogue]

Originally Posted by somewhatgifted

Well keep killing iraqis "in a heartbeat" and keep complainaing that everyone doesnt see it your way. Im not a soldier, im not american, but i do try to understand peoples actions. its also very frustrating to me...... If l.a is dangerous then why isnt the army helping there instead of killing iraqis who dont want you there. Put your self in the iraqi soldiers place what os he fighting for? his freedom, his family, for what he believes in. who is the good guy. War will not determine this as there is no right answer. this will end, nothing will change, except the graveyards will be full and bush and his buddies will be super rich from a now dead sadams oil money, i may be totally wrong, but from my unbiased perspective thats how it looks to me. not trying to stress you out but there is no easy way to say it, theres no right argument and im not goin gto change my opinion much like you wont change yours. I hope you find peace.

after some carefulll reflection i have decided i owe an apology. I am not a soldier and i am not in iraq i dont know what is going on is happening without me there and i cant ittelegently argue or banter with someone who has been/ is there. I apologize as i sit in the comfort of my home knowing i most likely wont lose my life over this issuse and should not speak negativley with someone who may. I should stay out of these threads as i really dont know that much and apologize for appearing ignorant, it wont be the last time either, but i am a learning human being. I wasnt drunk or drinking just mad but good call nonetheless.

As for the why do Americans not secure their own towns, I have no idea. I have been an American for 13 years now and have asked that many times, why do we not help our own as much as we help other nations? I think, to me at least, the answer is simple, we as Americans if not shown it on the tele do not believe it is happening. Most Americans (my generation) have not grown up starving and poor and oppressed by another nation.
I hear you all, I am poor, and I am not rich. Unless you ate every 3rd day and there were no homeless shelters or free food, you were not poor. So we do not think that Americans cannot pick themselves up and do better, they can, sometimes they just need a helping hand. Why can we not secure our streets to make them safe?

We as Americans do need to help ourselves since helping the other nations is not helping us. Yes, I can say what I want about the wars, I have been to Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Afghanistan and Iraq in combat for America and honestly what has it done for us as a nation? Are we safer, stronger more compassionate to our neighbors’, I think not. I love this country or I would not server her.

I can understand the true Iraqi that wants to stand and fight for his home and family, being a N. Ireland lad, I understand completely what it feels like to have another nation occupy your land amd force their laws on you. It is only normal to resist and fight back.

Sorry got of track! We are in the fight and now we must fix what we have helped cause in Iraq.

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by Irish_Rogue

As for the why do Americans not secure their own towns, I have no idea. I have been an American for 13 years now and have asked that many times, why do we not help our own as much as we help other nations? I think, to me at least, the answer is simple, we as Americans if not shown it on the tele do not believe it is happening. Most Americans (my generation) have not grown up starving and poor and oppressed by another nation.
I hear you all, I am poor, and I am not rich. Unless you ate every 3rd day and there were no homeless shelters or free food, you were not poor. So we do not think that Americans cannot pick themselves up and do better, they can, sometimes they just need a helping hand. Why can we not secure our streets to make them safe?

We as Americans do need to help ourselves since helping the other nations is not helping us. Yes, I can say what I want about the wars, I have been to Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Afghanistan and Iraq in combat for America and honestly what has it done for us as a nation? Are we safer, stronger more compassionate to our neighbors’, I think not. I love this country or I would not server her.

I can understand the true Iraqi that wants to stand and fight for his home and family, being a N. Ireland lad, I understand completely what it feels like to have another nation occupy your land amd force their laws on you. It is only normal to resist and fight back.

Sorry got of track! We are in the fight and now we must fix what we have helped cause in Iraq.

Helping the Iraqis help themselves is the best idea, although it does not seem to be the same one that the USA state department has planned!

I think the Iraqii people would be more receptive to USA "brand
help", if it were not being delivered in tanks.

The depleated uranium(DU) doesn't really "help" anyone, this will take alot of fixing!!!

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by somewhatgifted

after some carefulll reflection i have decided i owe an apology. I am not a soldier and i am not in iraq i dont know what is going on is happening without me there and i cant ittelegently argue or banter with someone who has been/ is there. I apologize as i sit in the comfort of my home knowing i most likely wont lose my life over this issuse and should not speak negativley with someone who may. I should stay out of these threads as i really dont know that much and apologize for appearing ignorant, it wont be the last time either, but i am a learning human being. I wasnt drunk or drinking just mad but good call nonetheless.

Tasteful edit. Much respect.

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by DAdams91982

Wow... I just looked those up in Amazon.... HIGHLY intriguing reads. Got both on order. Thanks for the information.

I'm not one to usually play left v.s. right. But when someone calls something that alot of good comes from, nothing but sanctioned murder is just false, and ignorant. IMHO.

I can't wait for the reads to come in, definately look pretty powerful.

Adams

They are good reads. Bias outlines the problems, Arrogance outlines the solutions.

I haven't read his latest though:

Amazon.com: 110 People Who Are Screwing Up America: (and Al Franken Is #37): Books: Bernard Goldberg

[The Colonel 333]

Originally Posted by Squeaks4ver

No. it is impossible to conduct a war the way the liberals want us to. There is and never will be any such thing as a zero casualty war. We can and have totally defeated a nation's ways of life. We did it to japan with two bombs.

Look I hate to bust your bubble here, but you sparked a whole debate off topic on this thread. So I feel the need to correct you. I don't know who got you blaming "liberals" for the failure in Iraq but they are one good spin doctor. The writing is on the wall and the evidence is all around you if you choose to actually look. This was a Republican President and a conservative/neo-conservative White House through and through. Couple that with a Republican led Congress and a Republican lead Senate that did not deny one single thing the pentagon or the white house asked for. So how is it that everyone calling the shots are conservative and (NO ONE is telling them no) somehow the liberals are to blame. Interesting logic. Sorry guy if you want to find blame for why the war in Iraq and the war on terror are going so crappy you only need to look at who is in charge of managing them.
So where is the "kool aid" talk on this one ?

[somewhatgifted]

Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000 - washingtonpost.com

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Afghanistan's civilian deaths mount

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by The Colonel 333

Look I hate to bust your bubble here, but you sparked a whole debate off topic on this thread. So I feel the need to correct you. I don't know who got you blaming "liberals" for the failure in Iraq but they are one good spin doctor. The writing is on the wall and the evidence is all around you if you choose to actually look. This was a Republican President and a conservative/neo-conservative White House through and through. Couple that with a Republican led Congress and a Republican lead Senate that did not deny one single thing the pentagon or the white house asked for. So how is it that everyone calling the shots are conservative and (NO ONE is telling them no) somehow the liberals are to blame. Interesting logic. Sorry guy if you want to find blame for why the war in Iraq and the war on terror are going so crappy you only need to look at who is in charge of managing them.
So where is the "kool aid" talk on this one ?

Its really simple, protests from opposing views causes governing bodies, especially those that get elected and want to get reelected, bow to public opinion. Once governing bodies bow to public opinion, policy in a war in no longer run for the cause to win, its run to satisfy the changing views of the public for fears of NOT getting reelected.

When wars are run by public opinion and those wanting reelection, you lose. Politicians and especially the public shouldn't run wars, the military should and that applies to Bush as well. The baby boomers found that out with Vietnam, this current generation will learn the lesson with this one.



If World War 2 was run with the same rules and regulations as this war (PC and public opinion), we would have never won. Those rules are strongly enforced by leftist and secular (PC obsessed) groups. If 100 civilians die in a bombing run, they cry "murderers".

You want to see what a real 4 year does?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by The Colonel 333

Sorry guy if you want to find blame for why the war in Iraq and the war on terror are going so crappy you only need to look at who is in charge of managing them.
So where is the "kool aid" talk on this one ?

That's the difference. Liberals look to blame first, come up with a solution last. In this situation, they still haven't done the latter.

Liberals weren't against this action when Clinton wanted to go to war.






Sorry, everyone was at fault, but some people change their mind once election time comes. On the eve of war, they loved it. Once it got dirty, they run.

"Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price."

Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)
September 13, 2001

"It is the duty of any president, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threat. Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for 12 years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so."

Senator John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts)
Statement on eve of military strikes against Iraq

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by Bobo

That's the difference. Liberals look to blame first, come up with a solution last. In this situation, they still haven't done the latter.

Liberals weren't against this action when Clinton wanted to go to war.






Sorry, everyone was at fault, but some people change their mind once election time comes. On the eve of war, they loved it. Once it got dirty, they run.

"Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price."

Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)
September 13, 2001

"It is the duty of any president, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threat. Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for 12 years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so."

Senator John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts)
Statement on eve of military strikes against Iraq

I don't think two days after 9-11 would have been a good time for Hillary to launch a "cut and run" campaign! (haha)

John Kerry, the Republican Party's best friend.

...way back from his days as the head of the senate sub committe investigating the BCCI(GHW Bush selling weapons to Iran and Iraq)scandal, he dismissed it because there was "too much" evidence!

...Kerry was such a fierce Presidential canidate that he conceeded the 2004 election even though he knew that there was a county in Ohio that had 90,000 more votes than voters!

Even his warhawk quote is laughable, not that he would ever need to know, but the only "duty" the president has, is to defend is the Constitution of the United Sates of America!