Estate tax cut...

[Nullifidian]

I just don't get it. Why are so many folks against this? The truth is, there shouldn't even BE an estate tax whatsoever. It is taxing money and income that ahs already been taxed. That's double taxation; something we fought a revolutionary war over!

I just can't believe so many Americans are perfectly happy to support our bloated government double dipping into other Americans pockets.


Heck, let's look at what this tax does. When the ownerof Walmart dies, what will happen? Well, the heirs will lose HALF the company's value to the US government in the form of a completely bogus tax. What happens then? Simple! They close a myriad of stores, fire employees and cut wages and benefits.

Are people really so shortsighted that they don't realise this? I mean nevermind the simple fact that double taxation is flat out WRONG, it doesn't just hurt the rich, it hurts everyone working for those rich folks.


Reason I bring this up is because people are saying a minimum wage increase is likely to be stopped because they are going to tack on an estate tax cut to it. The fact that any bill would be held up because of that sickens me.

 

[OmarJackson]

hasn't this already happened?

i thought that the house voted down a minimum wage increase because because the republicans attached a death tax repeal to the bill.

 

[BioHazzard]

And the owner of WalMart Sam Walton is already dead.. His children are among the top 10 richest people in America. Forbes 400 Richest Americans: Special Edition - Yahoo! Finance

Did you just come back from another planet, by any chance? Alien abduction?

 

[Nullifidian]

Yeah, and when he died, they had to do some serious wrangling to not have literally half the company taken by the government. They still took a hit and guess what?

Walmart is now renowned for hosing their employees. Why? Because they hosed their employees to make back money lost when the owner died.


And I'm bringing this up because the min wage bill is coming up for ANOTHER vote. It was shot down in August but is coming again. Many say it will be shot down AGAIN if the estate tax cut is attached again. I think it's complete BS.

 

[BioHazzard]

Yeah, and when he died, they had to do some serious wrangling to not have literally half the company taken by the government. They still took a hit and guess what?

Walmart is now renowned for hosing their employees. Why? Because they hosed their employees to make back money lost when the owner died.
......

:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate :frustrate

 

[Nullifidian]

:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate :frustrate

My point was just that, the estate tax ultimately hurts the little guy. Because the guy at the top getting hit directly will do everything he can to minimize that. Almost always that means taking it from those below him.

Folks can complain about it all day, but it won't stop it from happening over and over. At some point, these bleeding hearts are going to have to wake up and recognize that they need to start looking at the way things DO work, not the way they wished they worked.

 

[bioman]

I think it's only the far left that wants to keep the estate tax. As a moderate lefty, I think the estate tax is abhorent. That's money that is not only double taxed, but taxed thousands of times over if it was say, the money an average working Joe accrued over the duration of his working years. Every paycheck taxed for 35 years, then taxed again as a lump sum at twice the rate.

 

[Nullifidian]

I think it's only the far left that wants to keep the estate tax. As a moderate lefty, I think the estate tax is abhorent. That's money that is not only double taxed, but taxed thousands of times over if it was say, the money an average working Joe accrued over the duration of his working years. Every paycheck taxed for 35 years, then taxed again as a lump sum at twice the rate.

The whole concept of the estate tax really disgusts me.

Imagine this scenario. A guy works his butt off for 50 years. He's only middle class but he's saved and scrimped meticulously. He has a son who is middle class too; working a similar job. He retires and kicks the bucket not a month later. Let's say he's already a widower at the time he dies. Let's say the money in his retirement savings is like 2 mil. His son sees half. HALF!!!!! The government takes the rest. This is money that the government has been sucking dry for years, money this guy saved so his son could have a better life, and now the government steals half.


I knew a family that happened to. The grandfather was a working stiff who happened to be a good investor. Those investments had been double taxed already: income tax AND capital gains. The mother and father were both school teachers (his only son and his daughter-in-law). By the time uncle Sam got through with it, there wasn't a whole lot left.

 

[Pfunk47]

that is ridiculous - I can see why the goverment wants to keep it yet I can't see why more americans are not outraged by this - there has to be a loop hole somewhere or something individuals can do for themselves? but at the same time estate taxing only applies to people with millions of dollars - most of us avergae joes are not going to see this tax

 

[Nullifidian]

that is ridiculous - I can see why the goverment wants to keep it yet I can't see why more americans are not outraged by this - there has to be a loop hole somewhere or something individuals can do for themselves?

Not when death is sudden.

If a person has a terminal illness though for example, they can arrange various tax free gifts, etc. over the years. Basically transfer their estate to their heirs gradually over time. The highest tax free gift a single person can receive though is 10K per year.

 

[bioman]

Most wealthy people arrange their wealth into various family trusts, these are taxed much lower because they don't technically belong to one person and therefore if the head of the family dies, the govt can't grab their 46% estate tax from it because it still belongs to the surviving family members.

Most average joes who do get to amass a million or two do not realize this or do not put their money into a family trust. When they die, they let a will take care of things and this is when the estate tax kicks in and the surviving family members get shafted.

If there are back taxes owed..things can ugly and houses and other property can get siezed to cover the bill.

Any fiscal conservative should oppose the estate tax because it denies surviving family members the opportunity to create more wealth which would be at the core of Reaganomics.

 

[CDB]

Oh come on guys. What better time to 'give back' to the community than when someone dies?

Most people don't get outraged by it because they don't see it as affecting them. They see it as a tax on 'the rich.' That 'the rich' are the ones who facilitate the working stiff's ability to get 'a job' is overlooked, especially with the government employing a massive portion of the workforce. For those workers that tax is a part of their ability to get paid. Austrian class analysis, Null. Only two classes: those who end up with a net benefit from taxes and those who take a net loss from taxes. Look at the world that way, things get a lot clearer.

Hope that job you had a line on worked out.

 

[meowmeow]

The whole concept of the estate tax really disgusts me.

Imagine this scenario. A guy works his butt off for 50 years. He's only middle class but he's saved and scrimped meticulously. He has a son who is middle class too; working a similar job. He retires and kicks the bucket not a month later. Let's say he's already a widower at the time he dies. Let's say the money in his retirement savings is like 2 mil. His son sees half. HALF!!!!! The government takes the rest. This is money that the government has been sucking dry for years, money this guy saved so his son could have a better life, and now the government steals half.


I knew a family that happened to. The grandfather was a working stiff who happened to be a good investor. Those investments had been double taxed already: income tax AND capital gains. The mother and father were both school teachers (his only son and his daughter-in-law). By the time uncle Sam got through with it, there wasn't a whole lot left.

Actually the current exemption protects the first 1 million dollars from federal taxes per individual. He could combine with the deceased wife for a 2 million dollar marital federal tax exemption (which should still be available). So no estate tax is owed in this scenario for the upcoming tax season.:yawn:

The avearage Joe isn't really effected by the Esatate Tax because of the exemption that has always been there (years ago it was $600,000).

I agree with what all of you say concerning the estate tax. It should not exist. But also a government living beyond its means should not exist either...the lost revenue from an estate tax elimination must be made up somewhere else because the federal govt. WILL NOT reduce its spending. It will either tax anew or incur more debt (disguised tax) to maintain its appetite.

 

[CDB]

I agree with what all of you say concerning the estate tax. It should not exist. But also a government living beyond its means should not exist either...the lost revenue from an estate tax elimination must be made up somewhere else because the federal govt. WILL NOT reduce its spending. It will either tax anew or incur more debt (disguised tax) to maintain its appetite.

I agree. I do think however that there are less destructive ways to tax than just mass appropriations of wealth. Sales taxes for example.

 

[jrkarp]

What kills me is that the media goes along with the characterization of an Estate Tax cut as a "tax cut for the wealthy."

You know who the Estate Tax hurts the most? Small businesses and small family owned farms. Not Bill Gates.

 

[BioHazzard]

Actually the current exemption protects the first 1 million dollars from federal taxes per individual. He could combine with the deceased wife for a 2 million dollar marital federal tax exemption (which should still be available). So no estate tax is owed in this scenario for the upcoming tax season.:yawn:

The avearage Joe isn't really effected by the Esatate Tax because of the exemption that has always been there (years ago it was $600,000).

I agree with what all of you say concerning the estate tax. It should not exist. But also a government living beyond its means should not exist either...the lost revenue from an estate tax elimination must be made up somewhere else because the federal govt. WILL NOT reduce its spending. It will either tax anew or incur more debt (disguised tax) to maintain its appetite.

Bingo! Thankyou.

 

[OmarJackson]

i don't get why it shouldn't exist. its not about how many times a lump of money is taxed, its about being taxed each time it transfers hands.

It should be regarded just as any other source of income, just because daddy is giving it to you doesn't make it not income. the benefactor never earned that money and thus was never taxed on it.

 

[jrkarp]

i don't get why it shouldn't exist. its not about how many times a lump of money is taxed, its about being taxed each time it transfers hands.

It should be regarded just as any other source of income, just because daddy is giving it to you doesn't make it not income. the benefactor never earned that money and thus was never taxed on it.

Well, the benefactor is the one who is giving it, so he was actually taxed on it, but I know what you mean.

I just don't see how you can justify taxing money or property that was already - heavily - taxed. Some people work their whole lives to build small businesses for their family in the hopes that their children take over them, but the estate tax can make it impossible to keep the business. A lot of family owned farms have been lost because of the estate tax.

 

[OmarJackson]

Well, the benefactor is the one who is giving it, so he was actually taxed on it, but I know what you mean.

whoops, i'm a dumbass. i meant to say beneficiary.

I just don't see how you can justify taxing money or property that was already - heavily - taxed. Some people work their whole lives to build small businesses for their family in the hopes that their children take over them, but the estate tax can make it impossible to keep the business. A lot of family owned farms have been lost because of the estate tax.

i thought the small farmer was wiped out because of government subsidized contracts to the corporate mega-farms.

 

[jrkarp]

whoops, i'm a dumbass. i meant to say beneficiary.



i thought the small farmer was wiped out because of massive subsidized contracts the corporate mega-farms.

Well, that too. But seriously, the estate tax kills small farms and family owned businesses. If there is going to be an estate tax, the minimum should be a hell of a lot higher than $2 million. $2 million sounds like a lot, but it doesn't take that long to get there when you think about business assets. A small business owner could easily have $2 million in assets and yet not take home a lot of cash. People think of a $2 million estate and think that people with an estate like that must have lived like Bill Gates, but that's far from the case.