[Big Matt]

Things are totally out of hand. The world view of America has become totally warped. We need more people standing up for us like Gordon Sinclair. This was over 30 years ago but the message it conveys still applies today. Perhaps even more so! Read this....you'll be glad you did!


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Gordon Sinclair is a Canadian broadcaster at Radio CFRB in Toronto. On June 5, 1973 he woke up to the news that the American dollar and economy was in trouble. This was the era of Vietnam and Watergate. He went to his broadcast job and sat down to compose a few words. Twenty minutes later the short two page speech was written which has now become a classic. Here it is.......................

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The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French, and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971, and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous, and possibly the least-appreciated, people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Well who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did, that's who.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges, and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Mississippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan, and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. And I was there -- I saw that. When distant cities are hit by earthquake, it is the United States that hurries into help, Managua, Nicaragua, is one of the most recent examples.

So far this spring, fifty-nine American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan, the Truman Policy, all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. And now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.

Now, I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on now, you, let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or a women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times, and, safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They're right here on our streets in Toronto. Most of them, unless they're breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend up here.

When the Americans get out of this bind -- as they will -- who could blame them if they said "the hell with the rest of the world." Let somebody else buy the Israel bonds. Let somebody else build or repair foreign dams, or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes." When the railways of France, and Germany, and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both of 'em are still broke.

I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name to me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They'll come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they're entitled to thumb their noses at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians.

And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters -- with the year less than half-over -- has taken it all. And nobody, but nobody, has helped.

[doggzj]

exactly what I tell people all the time.

no, I mean we help people way to much, let the rest of the world help themselves for a few years.

[BioHazzard]

I think we should butt out of every country's business.

Next time when sh1t hits the fan in their countries, they can pray to their God and look to their wise and smart leaders for help.

I think the UN should find some balls and get the **** out of New York. Move to Paris, for all I care. Kick us out of the UN, please!!! Reject our lopsided UN fees. Don't be so pathetic as to accept our corrupted US dollars!

I think all the countries should demonstrate how they truly feel about the US AND summon up their courage to REJECT our foreign aid!! That's right! Grow a backbone and a pair of balls! Reject our money!

And kick us out of Europe, so we don't have to spend over $150 billion a year popping up their economy.

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

Originally Posted by BioHazzard

I think we should butt out of every country's business.

Next time when sh1t hits the fan in their countries, they can pray to their God and look to their wise and smart leaders for help.

I think the UN should find some balls and get the **** out of New York. Move to Paris, for all I care. Kick us out of the UN, please!!! Reject our lopsided UN fees. Don't be so pathetic as to accept our corrupted US dollars!

I think all the countries should demonstrate how they truly feel about the US AND summon up their courage to REJECT our foreign aid!! That's right! Grow a backbone and a pair of balls! Reject our money!

And kick us out of Europe, so we don't have to spend over $150 billion a year popping up their economy.

exactly....

or america could stop giving money to people that hate us....


oh but we are hmmm.... what is the phrase ... "better than that" aren't we.... jesus turned the other cheek and so shall we.....

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!

exactly....

or america could stop giving money to people that hate us....


oh but we are hmmm.... what is the phrase ... "better than that" aren't we.... jesus turned the other cheek and so shall we.....

There is a strange perception that people who criticize the current US govrnment are not supportive of of the country and its freedoms.
The United Statees of America has been wholly responcible for the ending of such practices as slavery, communism and has done much in the effort of limiting the effects of fascism and terrorism through out the world.
...but as "past results are not a guarentee of future performance", we as a people must remain "eternally vigilent" in protecting the rights of every human as outlined in the Declaration of Independence. This is "equality of rights" and you either believe that it is for "everyone" or you become vulnerable to biases that can eventually include you.

Sometimes to prove a point you have to give money to a few ingrates..speaking of which I gave a "homelss guy" a dollar the other day,..didn't even thank me!

[BioHazzard]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!

exactly....

or america could stop giving money to people that hate us....


oh but we are hmmm.... what is the phrase ... "better than that" aren't we.... jesus turned the other cheek and so shall we.....

Great minds think alike.

[BioHazzard]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

There is a strange perception that people who criticize the current US govrnment are not supportive of of the country and its freedoms.....

How do you figure that?

[size]

Americans are commonly concerned with government budget deficits and imbalances. Oddly, many Americans are for the constant loaning of money to foreign countries for aid who have no intention or capabilities of returning the money even interest free. Seems a bit ironic.

[glg]

No country has ever survivied an isolationist policy. It is a global economy and global politics is the reality we are forced to live in.

However...I believe the phrase charity begins at home should be the focus and the word 'charity' can be changed to justice, defense, health care, adoption of children, care for the less well off, job protection et. al.

I think we do stick our noses in to many places/things and don't take care of our own enough.

But in the end I think we are damned either way. the world will hate us because we jump in or because we didn't jump in.

When you are big eveyone picks on you and assumes you are a bully regardless of your intentions.

So let's get better/bigger/healthier and give them something to actually be jealous of!!

[CDB]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

There is a strange perception that people who criticize the current US govrnment are not supportive of of the country and its freedoms.

In many ways they are not. Nor are their main opposition.

The United Statees of America has been wholly responcible for the ending of such practices as slavery,

Actually many countries had outlawed slavery before us, and we were one of the few where a massive destructive war was waged in part to do so. Most countries just outlawed slavery and paid off the owners for their remaining slaves, or some other such arrangement. The US was way behind the curve globally on this issue.

communism and has done much in the effort of limiting the effects of fascism and terrorism through out the world.

The stand against communism was a joint effort. The US couldn't contain communism alone, we needed a lot of allies. Whether or not our current efforts at ending or minimizing terrorism will be successfull is way up in the air. With estimates of the number of dead Iraqis and Afghanis rising and being in the tens of thousands, and sometimes being estimated much higher in the hundreds of thousands, there are arguably a lot more potential terrorists out there now than ever before. The death count from US backed UN sanctions was one of the main reasons given by OBL/AQ for the 9/11 attacks and the general war on the US. It's yet to be determined whether or not a similar death count from an outright US military action will be more or less of a motivator.

we as a people must remain "eternally vigilent" in protecting the rights of every human as outlined in the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration, aside from not being law but rhetoric, says nothing of the sort. It says that generally speaking people have the right to take up arms to defend themselves from the tyranny of their own government.

Sometimes to prove a point you have to give money to a few ingrates..speaking of which I gave a "homelss guy" a dollar the other day,..didn't even thank me!

By giving him money you're likely doing more to perpetuate his current state than to instigate any kind of change. Similarly with nations, the money we send usually ends up being used as an investment guarantee for US based corporations or ends up lining the pocket of the corrupt rulers, allowing them to prop up their governments more effectively. Little if any gets to the people within the country. Similarly food aid usually ends up going on the black market, under cutting local crop prices and causing more people to become starving refugees.

The best answer in almost all case of foreign policy is to stay out of it, whatever 'it' may be; war, famine, mass poverty or public improvement projects. The only consistent result of getting involved with other people's problems is the perpetuation of that problem (which is foreseeable since the country is now being paid handsomely based on its victim status - lose the status, lose the money) and to piss off a lot of people when we take sides in centuries old disputes that we know little to nothing about.

[Big Matt]

What would Gordon Sinclair's speech read like if he had written it today?

How many people bashing America and it's foriegn policy would get called out?

Food for thought.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

There is a strange perception that people who criticize the current US govrnment are not supportive of of the country and its freedoms.
The United Statees of America has been wholly responcible for the ending of such practices as slavery, communism and has done much in the effort of limiting the effects of fascism and terrorism through out the world.
...but as "past results are not a guarentee of future performance", we as a people must remain "eternally vigilent" in protecting the rights of every human as outlined in the Declaration of Independence. This is "equality of rights" and you either believe that it is for "everyone" or you become vulnerable to biases that can eventually include you.

Sometimes to prove a point you have to give money to a few ingrates..speaking of which I gave a "homelss guy" a dollar the other day,..didn't even thank me!

I think before one can responsibly place the United States in such a 'world saviour' light, one has to look at the historical and societal construction of the problems you mentioned.

Slavery-The United States was the major perpetrator of slavery at the end of the Colonial push of the late nineteenth century. Admittedly the attitude of racial exploitation for capital gain had long been pursued before the Colonization of the US, and arose out of the need for cheap labour in African and Asian colonies, but arguably the United States carried it out on the largest scale. Undoubtedly the United States in its contemporary form was founded on centuries of black oppression

Communism-Though I will wholeheartedly challenge anyone to show me how the Stalinist form of Socialism in any major way resembled the ideologies of Karl Marx, I do agree that it was a plague, of which the United States played a major part in extinguishing

Terrorism-If one conceptualizes Terrorism in a classical definition of using violence to achieve a political agenda, then the United States is, and has been for the better part of a century, the major perpetrator of such acts. Before anyone gets defense one only needs to look at the amount of democratically elected leaders the United States has displaced in favour of Fascists who at the time opposed Communism, or who had stated economic interests with the United States. Off the top of my head I can name about 8. I do not, and would never condone the loss of innocent lives, but some of the attacks against the United States need to stop being percieved along strictly ethnic and religious lines and begin to be viewed in their true political context as reciprocal actions.

I am not "anti-american" in anyway, I just find it alarming how some citizens of the Western World are ignorant as to the causes of our current socio-political climate. Not claiming you are Rhino, you are a pretty adept guy, just speaking in generalities

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by CDB

By giving him money you're likely doing more to perpetuate his current state than to instigate any kind of change. Similarly with nations, the money we send usually ends up being used as an investment guarantee for US based corporations or ends up lining the pocket of the corrupt rulers, allowing them to prop up their governments more effectively. Little if any gets to the people within the country. Similarly food aid usually ends up going on the black market, under cutting local crop prices and causing more people to become starving refugees.

The best answer in almost all case of foreign policy is to stay out of it, whatever 'it' may be; war, famine, mass poverty or public improvement projects. The only consistent result of getting involved with other people's problems is the perpetuation of that problem (which is foreseeable since the country is now being paid handsomely based on its victim status - lose the status, lose the money) and to piss off a lot of people when we take sides in centuries old disputes that we know little to nothing about.

I think one of the major ignorances and misconceptions in so far as the economic situation of the Third World is the fact that no Western country has had to endure such an elongated oppression; therefore trying to prod the Third World countries into following the economic model of the West is not feasible. Simply put, they do not have themselves to exploit.

During that period of marginalization known as Colonialism, 99% of any resemblance to functional, agricultural economies (subsistence or profit based) in the Third World were subordinated to single-cash crops geared toward short term export rather than long term development. Fast-forward to post-World War 2 when these former colonies were given political and 'economical independence'. In reality, they were pushed into a common culture of capitalism extremely behind the grade so to speak, their economies had been founded upon exploitation over any long term development, and were completely disorganized and too undeveloped to support their own infrastructures. So, they were forced to take foreign aid in order to trade in an economic structure they had no part in creating, and no choice but to partake in.

It is simply not as easy as saying "we shouldn't get involved" in a situation which the West as a whole was solely responsible for creating. I agree that it is not as easy as throwing money at them, progressive social changes need to be made so the dependence on foreign aid cannot be fostered in future generations. However, I do not think now is the time to feel our involvement in the Third World's operations are necessary. One of the main reasons, IMO, the current situation of the Third World continues to be perpetuated is this ignorant attitude that we had nothing to do with its creation.

[anabolicrhino]

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

I am not "anti-american" in anyway, I just find it alarming how some citizens of the Western World are ignorant as to the causes of our current socio-political climate. Not claiming you are Rhino, you are a pretty adept guy, just speaking in generalities

Hey , I thought this was a thread for "defending" America?(haha)

I was born in this country(USA) and I am glad. I would not want to live anywhere else(save my own tropical island paradise)
Sometimes, I feel for people that are in the military or law enforcement, because the have to endure alot of America bashing.
It must be frustrating because they most likley "joined" to further a belief in a certain "way of life", then they are told that they are fighting for the "great Satan or they are fascist Imperialists expanding a global empire. I just wanted to post(previously) a few of the things that our global expasion has established that are generally considered as "good deeds"

The USA ended slavery after it no longer served any corporate agendas. The industrial age was beginging and slave labor was becoming more expensive(food shelter) than cotton gins.

Communism(USSR) ended with a wimper. Cold war military expansion led to fiscal mismanagment of resources and supply chains breakdowns imploded the government. The people realized they could not count on the government to supply their needs. The military was unpaid and were