some things i want to speak out about.

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    some things i want to speak out about.


    I don't post on political boards, I usually spend my time reading and posting on bodybuilding and fitness boards.

    But in the light of the israeli-lebanese conflict i've been reading a lot of people's comments and opinions on political forums.

    while most American's correctly assess the situation too many on the left (in america) and overall in europe and the rest of the world miss some key points.

    Here are some things specific to the current conflict.

    1. Hezbollah, functioning in southern lebanon, crossed the soveriegn border of israel where it killed several of its soldiers and kidnapped two others.

    2. Hezbollah has been using towns in s. lebanon to launch katuyasha rockets at cities and towns in northern israel since the early 1980's.

    3. Before this current conflict, Israel DID NOT occupy any part of lebanon in any way, and had not done so since they withdrew forces in 2000.

    4. Hezbollah CANNOT claim that they are freedom fighters, Israel has put no restrictions on the freedom of the people of southern lebanon. Nor can they claim they want their own nation from Israel, they have their own nation LEBANON!

    5. Hezbollah has fired over 2000 katushya rockets into israel since the conflict began 3 weeks ago.

    6. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT: the awful casaulties suffered by the lebanese civilians is a HUGE victory for Hezbollah. The only thing Hezbollah values more than dead lebanese civilians is dead israeli civilians.

    7. Hezballah hides weapons and launches its attacks at directly civilian locations. not in the proximity of, not next to, but exactly at. apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, offices, houses, mosques, etc.

    8. All of hezballah's attacks are meant to inflict civilian casaulties. All of Israel's attacks are meant for hezbollah fighters. Now, Israel has suffered much less civilian casaulties than lebanon, because all the people fled their homes or built shelters. meanwhile Hezbollah deters civilians from fleeing. Are we supposed to feel sorry for hezbollah because their attacks into israel have failed to kill israeli citizens? lets pretend that the 2000 katyushas killed 2000 israeli's, then would be israels force be justified?

    9. My last two points go hand in hand. the first point is this.

    a) Israel and all its citizens yearn very deeply for peace. I spent 8 weeks in israel 2 summers ago and this is very apparant. Israel is a beatiful country, and has so much to offer in terms of history, spirituallity, culture, education, science and technology, and also living a fun fullfilling life. Israeli's love to celebrate life. Even during times of war you'll see israelis out dining and dancing in restaurants and clubs in tel aviv into the 4 in the morning, going to the beach, going to movies and concerts (the nightlife is awesome by the way). WHO WOULDN'T WANT PEACE LIVING IN A LAND THAT HAS SO MUCH TO OFFER. because peace allows you to pursue what you really want in life.

    b) Hezballah exists for the destruction of israel and the death of all jews in israel and around the world. this is no secret and hezballah are quite proud of this fact. Hezballah is infected with the virus of Islamic fundamentalism which is the second rising of nazism. look at it this way, if you too away hezballah's weapons tomorrow, the violence would stop. If you took Israel's weapons away tomorrow Israel would be destroyed and its population murdered in days if not hours.

    also, this problem may seem far and away from us here in the states. but realize that Israel is fighting America's war as well, and rest assured that if hezballah did not have the jews and israel to hate they would just turn their hate towards america. GOD BLESS AMERICA for it seems that is the only country (other than israel) that realizes the danger of Islamic militancy.

    I'll end without a formal conclusion, I Just hope that people should realize these points I have stated if they have not already.

    please click on the link and watch this video, its short and worth it.

    CastUP: 1050 wafa sultan final-4

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    Both Israel and Lebanon are at fault, both have killed many innocent people. A border needs to be defined, they both seem unwilling to settle this, it will likely take global powers and likely force to end it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerDeer
    Both Israel and Lebanon are at fault, both have killed many innocent people. A border needs to be defined, they both seem unwilling to settle this, it will likely take global powers and likely force to end it...
    A border was defined!

    what good is a border if it is violated?

    I don't get how you don't see what you say is SO WRONG.

    what you said is exactly like saying.

    "Both the United States and Al Qaeda are at fault, both have killed many innocent people."

    Al Qaeda is in the business of killing the innocent, America is in the business of keeping its innocent from being killed!
    •   
       

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    Both are guilty of killing numerous civilians. That is the bottom line. I can't take sides.


    My last comment.

    Cheers.
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    Unfortunately Omar, you only know some of the facts. The long history of this conflict is much, much deeper than the few issues you pointed out. It's not just a jewish/muslim war. It's not just a war over borders, or over regions, or over religions, or over freedom. Israel has committed many times more atrocities than Hezbollah has in it's short lifespan. That doesn't make it right in any way, but to single out the simple few you pointed out is competely one-siding your argument.

    I will not turn this into a right or wrong thread, nor will I justify either side. Both sides believe they are right and will not see it any other way. Both sides want peace very much as well. Unfortunately, the culture that they are entrenched in will not allow that to happen.

    For the sake of argument, yes a border was defined. Who defined it? And why? Was that border defined and agreed upon by BOTH sides? Are you sure you know the answer to that? Did the Israeli people NOT completely infringe upon other people's rights to claim that land? Do they have any right to it? When they tried to claim Israel as a Jewish nation, what right did they have? Just years earlier it was almost entirely muslim until a jewish movement brought jews back to that area... an area they left baron for OTHERS to claim. what right do they then have to want that area back? How did they go about getting it back? Was it just?

    I do NOT want anyone to answer those questions... but realize the story is much MUCH deeper than most know. Anybody in the US that listens to the media will have a completely biased view as well. We're HEAVILY slanted towards Israel for obvious reasons. Our education on that area is based upon what others think we should know... those people are predominantly Christian leaders and backers.

    And no, I don't back either side...

    Quote Originally Posted by OmarJackson
    A border was defined!

    what good is a border if it is violated?

    I don't get how you don't see what you say is SO WRONG.

    what you said is exactly like saying.

    "Both the United States and Al Qaeda are at fault, both have killed many innocent people."

    Al Qaeda is in the business of killing the innocent, America is in the business of keeping its innocent from being killed!
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    I believe that they are both at fault.
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    Both sides want peace very much as well
    WRONG! Hezballah is sworn to the destruction of Israel, reed their manifest!

    I do NOT want anyone to answer those questions
    TOO BAD! you will get answers because you are blind, ignorant, and a dangerous to yourself.

    Was that border defined and agreed upon by BOTH sides?
    no! because Israel was not founded on any lebanese land. lebanon's borders are exactly the same as they were BEFORE israel and AFTER israel.

    Did the Israeli people NOT completely infringe upon other people's rights to claim that land?
    NO! THERE WAS NEVER ANY SUCH THING AS PALESTINE! Israel was almost an uninhabited barren desert, comprising of tiny villages and nomads before the state was founded in 1948. Most of today's palestinians are not descendents of the original arabs in the land of israel, but they are the descendents of arabs expuled from egypt and syria.

    AND if you want to go back to rights to land, hmmm..... Jerusalem, Nazarath, Jericho, all the acient cities in Israel were built by JEWS over 3000 years ago!

    Do they have any right to it?
    read above

    Just years earlier it was almost entirely muslim until a jewish movement brought jews back to that area... an area they left baron for OTHERS to claim. what right do they then have to want that area back? How did they go about getting it back? Was it just?
    this just shows that you are completly ignorant and your education has failed you.

    ISRAEL WAS NEVER A MUSLIM STATE! Israel was a land that was the crossing for the worlds 3 major religions. Jerusalem was built by jews, it is the original capital of the jewish people. WAY before muslims came to the region.

    Prior to 1948 the land which is today israel was a British Territory, it was mostly occupied by british subjects, not just muslims.

    I don't back either side...
    please realize that Hezballah and the rest of Militant Islam would not hesitate a second if it had the oppertunity to kill you and your entire family.

    do yourself a favor and watch the beheadings of nick berg, paul johnson, jack hensley, daniel pearl, and dozens of others brutally killed because THEY ARE NOT MUSLIM BUT AMERICANS!

    maybe then you will realize the vermin which the world is dealing with.
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    oh, another point.

    the whole issue of arabs being displaced and uprooted from their land when Israel was formed is the most COMPLETLY ASININE CRAP EVER PUT OUT!

    How many american-indians were displaced so that the white european settlers could form American cities? how many tens of millions? BUT do you see any native americans bombing restaurants and movie theaters in new york?

    8 million hindu's were displaced when pakistan was formed? how many hindu's are blowing up Pakistani civilians? none!

    there are hundreds more examples of this.... ONLY the islamic fanatics blow up civilians and for political gain.
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    Omar,

    I recognize you're passionate about the subject. Please try to refrain from getting hostile, 'CAPS' are still recognized as 'YELLING' and that really isn't conducive to 'discussion'.

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmarJackson
    WRONG! Hezballah is sworn to the destruction of Israel, reed their manifest!


    TOO BAD! you will get answers because you are blind, ignorant, and a dangerous to yourself.


    no! because Israel was not founded on any lebanese land. lebanon's borders are exactly the same as they were BEFORE israel and AFTER israel.


    NO! THERE WAS NEVER ANY SUCH THING AS PALESTINE! Israel was almost an uninhabited barren desert, comprising of tiny villages and nomads before the state was founded in 1948. Most of today's palestinians are not descendents of the original arabs in the land of israel, but they are the descendents of arabs expuled from egypt and syria.

    AND if you want to go back to rights to land, hmmm..... Jerusalem, Nazarath, Jericho, all the acient cities in Israel were built by JEWS over 3000 years ago!

    read above

    this just shows that you are completly ignorant and your education has failed you.

    ISRAEL WAS NEVER A MUSLIM STATE! Israel was a land that was the crossing for the worlds 3 major religions. Jerusalem was built by jews, it is the original capital of the jewish people. WAY before muslims came to the region.

    Prior to 1948 the land which is today israel was a British Territory, it was mostly occupied by british subjects, not just muslims.

    please realize that Hezballah and the rest of Militant Islam would not hesitate a second if it had the oppertunity to kill you and your entire family.

    do yourself a favor and watch the beheadings of nick berg, paul johnson, jack hensley, daniel pearl, and dozens of others brutally killed because THEY ARE NOT MUSLIM BUT AMERICANS!

    maybe then you will realize the vermin which the world is dealing with.
    You are correct, my friend. But you are wasting your breathe.

    Don't get yourself worked up over it. You are not going to change people's view, unless they are interested in learning the truth.

    Israel will do what is needed to secure itself, irrespective of what some people think.

    It is a free country. People are free to think whatever hell they so wish, no matter how out of touch with reality that may be. As long as they do not give aid and comfort to the enemies and do not jeorpadize the lives of our troops and our citizen, as well as those of our allies and friends, then it really doesn't matter what they think.


    Regarding the topic. I agree. The Hizballahs are sub human scum. They are war criminals. How else can you call dirtbags who purposedly draw fire to women and children of YOUR OWN countrymen? It is human nature to protect your own, especially the weak, the women and the innocent children. You simply do not use them as shields. That is not only cowardice in the lowest term, but simply pure evil. When you go against human instinct, then you are no longer part of the human race.
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    I see WAY too many parallels between Islamic fundamentalists of today, and the Japanese during and leading up to WW2.

    In WW2, the Japanese were not only willing to fight to the last, they eagerly wished to die for their emperor. Doing so would bring them and their family great honor. It took 2 nukes to stop them. Only when faced with imminent total annihilation did they surrender.

    I fear the same may be true of the Middle East now. The fundamentalists will NOT stop until they too are faced with total annihilation.


    So. I say, pull all our troops out. Have all REAL allies pull their troops out. Then drop a bomb on a city of choice. Keep destroying cities until they give up. At this point, I don't think anything else will work.


    Why? Because good cannot triumph over evil. Only a different kind of evil is capable of defeating evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    I see WAY too many parallels between Islamic fundamentalists of today, and the Japanese during and leading up to WW2.

    In WW2, the Japanese were not only willing to fight to the last, they eagerly wished to die for their emperor. Doing so would bring them and their family great honor. It took 2 nukes to stop them. Only when faced with imminent total annihilation did they surrender.
    .....
    Why? Because good cannot triumph over evil. Only a different kind of evil is capable of defeating evil.
    Great analogy. Similarly, I see Kim Jeung Il (sp?) as the moussolini and President Amademajad (sp?) as the Hitler of today.

    This SO reflects WWII its ridiculous. And there we have the UN (as the LON), impotent and unwilling to take action. Appeasement is their course of "proaction"
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    ****. I smell world war three. And god damn it because I just signed on with ROTC to pay for school. Sweet mother of god.
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    I feel like the Media has created an Axis of Ignorance and I think the first aspect, and probably the most dangerous, is their utter failure to recognize the enemy we are up against right now. And the second is, their absolute hatred of this president and his presidency. And the third would be their absolute obsession with seeing any policy he puts forth fail. And I must say, if I wasn't on the cutting edge of societal evolution, I may have fallen for it.
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    So what does that mean for me haha. Why cant the red sea just heave up and swallow that entire area of land forever? That would be great.
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    No offense but it sounds like you want the benefit of being in the military but not the obligation and duty that come with it.
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    The recruiteer said if i take his class, train with him three times a week, and go to a 2 hour leadership program every other week he will pa my entire tuition - does that sound too good to be true do you think? And its not that I dont want to join the military or that im not willing to work for benefits, its just that I dont want to be dropped into the middle of hell.
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    don't go into the military to pay for your debts. Go because you love your country. And go because you know you might die defending her. So is 30 grand of college debt worth your life..... thats up to you. But this nation has 1% of its population stepping up and fighting for us so that rest of the 99% can sit back and talk crap about them, the government, and never once hear the sound of a gun fired in anger.
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    When it comes to recruiting you must see everything in writing with all its requirements and exceptions! and it's signed by you.


    Never accept anything less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblue
    The recruiteer said if i take his class, train with him three times a week, and go to a 2 hour leadership program every other week he will pa my entire tuition - does that sound too good to be true do you think? And its not that I dont want to join the military or that im not willing to work for benefits, its just that I dont want to be dropped into the middle of hell.
    Hey.. Who does?

    But when you signed on the dotted line, you have just agreed to be dropped into the middle of hell when needed.
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    its just that I dont want to be dropped into the middle of hell.
    While some MOS's will have a less of a chance to be dropped in this Hell or somewhere in the middle of it. Even the Cooks learn how to shoot their M-4's.

    Combat MOS's are centered around fighting or directly involved if not near(artillary). But you have to be prepared to be in the thick of things and laying your life on the line for your fellow soldier, country or some innocent civilian that needs ya. If you're not ready to do this then right now isn't your best time to enlist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    While some MOS's will have a less of a chance to be dropped in this Hell or somewhere in the middle of it. Even the Cooks learn how to shoot their M-4's.

    Combat MOS's are centered around fighting or directly involved if not near(artillary). But you have to be prepared to be in the thick of things and laying your life on the line for your fellow soldier, country or some innocent civilian that needs ya. If you're not ready to do this then right now isn't your best time to enlist.
    I don't think cooks are issued the M-4's.
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    Depends on the unit assignment. Ours had the M-4's. Some units still don't have them at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    Depends on the unit assignment. Ours had the M-4's. Some units still don't have them at all.
    What unit you were with? Everyone gets the good ol M-16. M-4's are for special assignment, with all the goodies attached for special need. It costs a lot more than the plain M-16. What so special about your unit's cooks? Why do they need the specially equipped M-4's? Doesn't make any sense.
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    Back in 1997-8 (can't remember which year they were issued) I was with the 307th engineers in the 82d airborne.
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    And the m-16's are being phased out just like the m-60's. We had the 240b's back then too.

    Hell we had M-4's even as MP doing physical security work back in 1999.
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    Thanks for serving.
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    No thanks needed. I got back 10 fold vs. what I went in with. I actually am considering going back in if I can find a way to afford the pay cut. That and if they'll let me go back in as my old engineer MOS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    And the m-16's are being phased out just like the m-60's. We had the 240b's back then too.

    Hell we had M-4's even as MP doing physical security work back in 1999.
    Ok, you are referring to the M-4 carbines issued as PDW to non-infantry. I was thinking of SOCOM M4A1s. Nevermind. Brainfart.
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    Yeah just the M-4 carbines not the special equipt ones. The had some that were specially combat equipt but not many. Didn't have any when I was an MP.
  

  
 

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