Know what's kind of funny...

[BioHazzard]

Good grief! Stem research does not require aborting a fetus to extract the stemcells. That is BS.

We are talking about some freaking zygotes. Fertilized eggs that have started to multiply, people! Nobody is talking about aborting fetus to extract stemcells, for god's sake. We are talking about in vitro research. It isn't about chopping up unborn babies! People are bellyaching about destruction of life. For god's sake, we are talking about fertilized eggs that have no chance of developing into a full blown human being, unless you implant them into viable wombs and then carried to full term. Implanting fertilized eggs is a hit or miss thing, meaning, plenty of fertilized eggs will simply never develop into fetus. They are simply rejected by the body. Besides, the body rejects naturally fertilized eggs all the time, and the woman doesn't even know she has even being pregnant.

So, where do we draw the line? Are we going to go ape over all those fertilized eggs that are never carried to full term? My freaking goodness!! How many billions of lives have been destroyed over the history of humanity?!

According to some people, destroying these zygotes is tentamount to destruction of human life. Well then, are you going to charge the scientists with murder then? If not, then why not? By your reasoning, it ought to be murder!! Heck, since it is all pre-planned, then it ought to be premeditated murder! Even conspiracy too! What's next? The kid whacking off is going to be charged for destroying potential life as his sperms are alive? For fcvk sake! This is what I mean by nutjob insanity creeping in.

This is all BS. The fundamentalist extremists are accomplishing nothing, except to hand over the lead in this field to foreign researchers. What they are doing, is to hold back American advance in this field. Other countries are not constrained by this BS.

The knowledge we gain from stemcell research may very well embark us on a path that changes the human evolutionary process.

What the fundamentalist extremists are doing to stemcell research parallels to what the Church did to Galileo, Da Vinci and the like. They are throwing their beliefs as road block onto the path of science and advancement. Needless to say, they will fail in their frivolous attempt. They are only hindering American scientists in this field.

BTW, FWIW, I am a staunch Republican, a Roman Catholic, and a neo con. Most of the views I posted in this forum (except in this thread), reflect hardcore right wing conservatism. So, this isn't a case of anti social and anti religious crusade from the left wing extremist camp.

[kwyckemynd00]

Yeah, no kiddin'. Now that I think about it, I can't believe I ever bought into the idea that "embryonic stem cell research" had anything to do wtih a fetus. It specifically says embryonic. LOL. MMkkay I feel dumb. *Biology major lowers his head in shame*

I guess it was the episode of South Park where Christopher Reeves was cracking open fetus' like coors lights and went from a cripple to superman.

[rocknroll]

How President Bush stresses that human life is so precious, so he vetos government funding of stem cell research. While at the same time, he sends thousands of young men and women into a war which has resulted in thousands of civilian casualties.

It's an odd duplicity, isnt it?

I'm not trying to start an argument about the war in Iraq - we have enough of those - but it's just wierd how he thinks. Perhaps his veto of the stem cell bill had something to do with his large percentage of right-wing religious supporters.

BV

I haven't read this thread yet but just wanted to chime in and say good point BigVrunga and I have had similar thoughts. Actually, I have noticed this type of inconsistency over the years with both parties and their issues/platforms, especially from members of the parties that are on the extreme ends. For example, it cracks me up when I see a car laden with bumper stickers that say something along the lines of "Save the whales" or "Animals have rights too!" or "Save the rainforests!"

...then, on the same bumper is some sort of pro-choice sticker...

Yeah...OK...save the whales and trees and protect the animals, but kill those unwanted babies...

[kwyckemynd00]

LOL...made me laugh

[BigVrunga]

Yeah...OK...save the whales and trees and protect the animals, but kill those unwanted babies...

See, if humans could give birth to Rhinos and other endangered animals, we wouldnt have a problem.

BV

[Jayhawkk]

The problem the anti-stem cell people have(from the ones i've spoken and debated with). Believe that the problems will arise from abuse/misuse by the clinics. I see their concern I just don't think it trumps the benefits.

Risk vs. Reward is used all over.

[rocknroll]

See, if humans could give birth to Rhinos and other endangered animals, we wouldnt have a problem.

BV

Dude...I'm literally almost falling out of my chair laughing so hard.

I like the way you think Bro!

[Jayhawkk]

See, if humans could give birth to Rhinos and other endangered animals, we wouldnt have a problem.

BV

I know i've given my fair share of trying.

[BioHazzard]

Yeah, no kiddin'. Now that I think about it, I can't believe I ever bought into the idea that "embryonic stem cell research" had anything to do wtih a fetus. It specifically says embryonic. LOL. MMkkay I feel dumb. *Biology major lowers his head in shame*

I guess it was the episode of South Park where Christopher Reeves was cracking open fetus' like coors lights and went from a cripple to superman.

No sweat. Happens to the best of us.

[BUCKNUTS]

Yeah, no kiddin'. Now that I think about it, I can't believe I ever bought into the idea that "embryonic stem cell research" had anything to do wtih a fetus. It specifically says embryonic. LOL. MMkkay I feel dumb. *Biology major lowers his head in shame*

I guess it was the episode of South Park where Christopher Reeves was cracking open fetus' like coors lights and went from a cripple to superman.

why wouldn't you "buy in to the idea" that embryonic stem cell research has everything to with a fetus.you are a biology major so you very well know that zygote,blostocyst,embryo or fetus these are all terms to describe ONE thing a human being,they are some of the different stages of development of a human life,people who favor abortion and stem cell research use these terms to devalue that life but it is a life just the same.A zygote meets all the criteria for life,it grows, it has metabolic processes,it reacts to stimulation and it can(in the case of twinnig) reproduce.I do believe that if our govt. gives it's approval and funding to stem cell research those aborted fetus will be used next trust me that's how it works one unethical step at a time until we are completely desensitized. so I applaude our president for taking this stand.also it's worth saying again that stem cells can be obtained from other sources,umbilical cords,adults etc and can be obtained ethically and with full permission.Embryonic stem cells have also shown a greater proclivity to produce malignancies than adult stem cells.

[BigVrunga]

A zygote meets all the criteria for life,it grows, it has metabolic processes,it reacts to stimulation and it can(in the case of twinnig) reproduce.I do believe that if our govt. gives it's approval and funding to stem cell research those aborted fetus will be used next trust me that's how it works one unethical step at a time until we are completely desensitized.

That's kind of analagous the 'patriot act' in a way, one little chip off our constitutional rights until we're a totalitarian dictatorship. (an extreme view, but nonetheless somewhat valid if things stay on their current course)

why wouldn't you "buy in to the idea" that embryonic stem cell research has everything to with a fetus.you are a biology major so you very well know that zygote,blostocyst,embryo or fetus these are all terms to describe ONE thing a human being,they are some of the different stages of development of a human life,people who favor abortion and stem cell research use these terms to devalue that life but it is a life just the same.A zygote meets all the criteria for life,it grows, it has metabolic processes,it reacts to stimulation and it can(in the case of twinnig) reproduce.I do believe that if our govt. gives it's approval and funding to stem cell research those aborted fetus will be used next trust me that's how it works one unethical step at a time until we are completely desensitized. so I applaude our president for taking this stand.also it's worth saying again that stem cells can be obtained from other sources,umbilical cords,adults etc and can be obtained ethically and with full permission.Embryonic stem cells have also shown a greater proclivity to produce malignancies than adult stem cells.

When our politicians value human life more than they value money or power, then your point will be very much valid. Not that I dont agree with you (in some cases I do), but I dont think the president's value of human life was his sole motivator for the veto. Like others have pointed out to me though, its a good thing he did. Most everything the government touches they **** up.

If life was so important to these people, then they'd do everything they could to avoid wasting it. They'd also do everything they could to ensure that everyone led a healthty and prosperous life, but that's far from the reality of it.

BV

[BioHazzard]

A zygote created in a petri dish, has ZERO chance of developing into a human being. None what so ever. It can only POSSIBLY develop into a human being, IF AND ONLY IF it is successfully implanted into a viable womb. Until it is successfully implanted into a viable womb, it has absolutely no chance whatseoever of becoming a fetus, no matter what you want to believe or have faith in. The future of a zygote in a petri dish is a dead end road. Zip. Nada. Zero. No chance of survival.

Lack of federal funding will simply mean holding back the research in America ONLY. It will only mean the foreign research institutes will have the best chance of making all the breakthrough. The extreme fundamentalists are only fooling themselves. You can's stop science. What you are doing, is simply hindering the chance of reducing suffering and death.

[kwyckemynd00]

why wouldn't you "buy in to the idea" that embryonic stem cell research has everything to with a fetus.you are a biology major so you very well know that zygote,blostocyst,embryo or fetus these are all terms to describe ONE thing a human being,they are some of the different stages of development of a human life

That bolded part is correct, and it also contradicts your previous statement which is highly debatable.

I find it much more appropriate to describe the above mentioned action as development from a single celled organism into a human being. There is no way I'd ever even consider the fact that a single celled organism, despite its fate, is a human being. It has the potential to become a human being, but as cloning has demonstrated, its not the only thing with potential (Look up Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer). Note: Somatic cells are any cell other than the two reproductive cells, and with somatic germ cells they were able to clone dolly the sheep.

Its either human, or its not. It takes weeks before an embryo becomes a fetus and is distinctly human.

[BigVrunga]

Lack of federal funding will simply mean holding back the research in America ONLY. It will only mean the foreign research institutes will have the best chance of making all the breakthrough. The extreme fundamentalists are only fooling themselves. You can's stop science. What you are doing, is simply hindering the chance of reducing suffering and death.

+100

[bpmartyr]

We probably already have cures for almost anything that ales us but it is much more profitable to treat symptoms and prolong life in a state of sickness and continue to suck off the patient like a parasite instead of curing them. Locked up in a vault somewhere is the cure for cancer but maybe it is a natural substance that can not be synthesized and therefore not patentable = no profit. Oh BTW, steroids R bad mkay.

[BioHazzard]

There is no cure for cancer locked up anywhere. If there was such a cure, and even if there is no money to be made, it would have been published at the first chance. Imagine the goodwill, the recognition, and the publicity. Your name and the name of your organization (be it the research lab of a pharma, or an institute or a uni lab or a hospital lab) will be remembered forever. You would have left your mark on human history. You would sit in the Great Hall of Zeus till the end of time. Every medical student for generations to come, will worship at the feet of your statue.

Yeap. I am sure you would rather sit quitely on that unpatentable cure for cancer instead. Sure....

[BigVrunga]

Yeap. I am sure you would rather sit quitely on that unpatentable cure for cancer instead. Sure....

Unless the team that discovered it was assisinated by the pharmaceutical company they worked for...

[BioHazzard]

Now that you mentioned it... There was this chopper hovering above my house at 3 am in the morning a few nights ago. And my PC has crashed mysteriously several times.. After I restored from backup, I detected an ftp connection to a server located in China... And furthermore, my cats have been acting unusual lately......

All of the above are honest to god truth.. hmmm.. Now I know how conspiracy theory gets started... I am going to open my safe and see if there is cure for cancer stuffed in there somewhere....

[Jayhawkk]

I worked for the AJCC when I was in the Army before I got out and had a guy that approached the installation claming that they(gov't) implanted transmitters in his brain and has tapped his house. This guy was a very successful contractor too.

I thought I was gonna have to cap an ass that day, yo!

[BigVrunga]

Now that you mentioned it... There was this chopper hovering above my house at 3 am in the morning a few nights ago. And my PC has crashed mysteriously several times.. After I restored from backup, I detected an ftp connection to a server located in China... And furthermore, my cats have been acting unusual lately......

All of the above are honest to god truth.. hmmm.. Now I know how conspiracy theory gets started... I am going to open my safe and see if there is cure for cancer stuffed in there somewhere....

There probably is!! While you're at it, see if you can find my lifting straps I can find those ****ers anywhere

BV