Flag Burning Ban Rejected
06-28-2006 11:18 AM
Flag Burning Ban Rejected
Ok so by one vote the ban did not make it as an amendment this time, which I guess is fine, I am unsure if I am against it or just do not care... but.. as a conservative I am very tired of hearing that every time conservatives try to protect tradition or morality, democrats call it a "distraction" what are we distracting causes? What are we distracting them from? Undermining our nations war effort?
sorry just a rant
06-28-2006 01:41 PM
I hear ya, the country is slowly being ripped apart because of crap like this.
On a side note, I was talking with my sister about this and she said she heard that in Canada its illegal to burn their flag...
Any Canadians care to shed some light on this?
06-28-2006 01:48 PM
Well the distration is the fact that passing it is no real accomplishment other than saying you did somehting for the country. I've never seen a flag burned...I know it's not an epidemic...
However, if you think both sides are equally guilty of using this you're wrong.
06-28-2006 01:55 PM
I am a Vietnam era Marine veteran (2 tours), former police officer ( from patrolman to Sgt. in 5 yrs - small dept), 37 years in the martial arts (semi-retired).
I did all this for what is behind the flag, not the piece of cloth itself. in my mind there is nothing "holy" about the cloth, they can burn it, curse it, rant and rave all they want to. freedom of speech etc. I don't have to listen and give them any more credibility by passing a law that will give them even more attention. Those that perform these acts will continue and then get even more exposure than they deserve (they already do). Make it a media policy to ignore them and denigrate them until they wither up and go away. I know what living here means to me and a burning piece of cloth will not change how I feel or what I am willing to do for the country and ideals behind the sysmbol.
It's the country that matters - not the exterior trappings (that we tend to put to much focus on).
Last edited by yeahright; 06-28-2006 at 03:10 PM.
06-28-2006 02:03 PM
06-28-2006 02:11 PM
06-28-2006 02:20 PM
but one can say that yes the country is what matters.. however.. what then of a country that ignores its boarders and laws, doesn't keep people together with one set way of communication and no symbol to create a national identification. Do we even really have a country or just a buisness that lets us love on its property while we pay a tax to do so?
but also understand this amendment was not going to BAN flags to be burnt.. they would take the power of the courts away to then allow states to choose if they wished to protect the flag or not.
06-28-2006 02:38 PM
None of those ideals can be implemented with legislation, Maynard. Preventing the flag from being burnt, making kids say the pledge..none of those things reinforces ideals or unifies the country in any significant way. People have to love this country in their own ways and on their own terms..THAT's what makes this place great IMO.
The flag burning amendment comes up every 10 years or so as a means to rally a constituency into voting. It angers me that legislators take time to bother with this non-issue when there are serious and pressing matters that require attention in this country. If a tiny percentage of the far lunatic fringes in this country wish to burn a flag..let them. It identifies them as people who have nothing to offer. If half the country started burning flags..well, we better pay attention because that's some serious discontent that would signal civil unrest. None of those things are happening right now, but we do need to take care of business..schools, the war, the environment, looming recession all matter so much more than trying to make people patriotic.
06-28-2006 03:06 PM
one million men and women have died under that flag, and ten million more have been shot, blown up, legs ripped off and bled for that flag. That flag, is a memorial that every man woman and child can go out and buy to remember their family that has fallen for this nation(usually made in china lol).... The flag is not the government.. it is you, it is me, it is the druggie on the street and the unborn children of newly married American couples. It is a metaphor for who we were, who we are, and who we must always remember to be.. each star, each stripe each color is a memory and holds meaning... for some people, all they have is that flag. The flag should be a national monument and protected as such... but until that day we must make sure that flags are meeting all of the EPA standards so it wont hinder the environment and states and towns should continue passing laws to prevent uncontrolled public or private burning of anything without a permit... then.. tax the hell out of said permit lol
also the very left left should be behind this states choice amendment for at least it is protecting a secular symbol... but.. it sucks.. cause not only do they have a war with God, but they now hate their own country so this would have to tell people they actually maybe like it! The blew it.. the people would be behind them nearly 100% but.. they have to want everything...
06-28-2006 03:27 PM
GLG, well said, but unfortunately I'm not of that mindset. Being former military myself, maybe the issue just angers me more than others. If someone to burn a flag in my neighboorhood, their house would be on fire that night. I just can't stand nor will put up with that type of behavior. If you don't love the country you live in, get the fuk out! That's how I roll.
06-28-2006 04:32 PM
You do realize you served our country so that people have the right to do that! Are we gonna ban rallies or gatherings that are aimed at our country too?
Originally Posted by Viperspit
06-28-2006 04:35 PM
Should we also ban art exhibits too?
06-28-2006 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by McBurly
Nope we are free to burn our flags. Once some big well known KKK member from the US came here. Went to our Parliment hill and burned our flag because of the gay marriag issue. I guess he expected a big reaction but the mounties just told him that it was legal to do here hehe. I bet that ticked him off...
06-28-2006 05:16 PM
Love of our country is expressed in dissent just as much as in compliance. Our nation was founded on dissent and we burned the flag of our country at the time...British Union Jack et. al.
I do agree that there are levels of dissent that are over the line I just do not consider burning a piece of cloth to be one of them. I would rather see that expressed openly than a plane crashing into buildings, gas in the subway system, spikes in timber trees, mountain resorts burned etc.
Another consideration - -do we make the same law applicable to other nations symbols?
Would it be considered a “hate” crime?
Symbols are as dangerous as they are representative. Many a good idea ended in bad because of the "symbol" being followed vs. the reality of what it represented Wars, pogroms, genocides, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Jihads on and on....
I see to many people parading their "patriotism" on their sleeve putting a flag on the porch or see it being torn to strips on their pickup trucks. Isn’t this anther form of desecration? Do we go back to not allowing it on T-shirts and other clothing, bumper stickers etc. I now that might sound ridiculous but a symbol is a symbol. If it is that “holy” then it needs to be applied across the board.
See how quickly this can go down the strangest paths?
Censorship of ideals and beliefs can wind up being censored for all the right/wrong reasons but it is still censorship.
And before someone flames me I’m not talking about things like child porn, murder, hate crimes, terrorism etc. There are many things in this world that are or need to be censored/restricted/outlawed. I just don’t feel that this issue qualifies as much and that there are many other more worthwhile things for our politicians and nation to focus on.
I guess that I would also call it a “Distracting” tactic.
The advantage of being a “Baby Boomer” - WWII, Korea, being in 'Nam and it's aftermath, Desert Storm etc. is I have seen the ebb and flow of perceived patriotism vs. real concern for where or nation has been and is going.
And a lot of “Distractions” along the way.
06-28-2006 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Korrupted
Good point, I guess it depends on what the Rally topic is. I served to protect the rights and freedoms of our country, I don't think burning the Amercian Flag was on the list of actions I was figthing for. It's just my opinion, I don't like it, and if it's done in front of me, I guess I have the right and freedom to do something about it.
06-28-2006 06:00 PM
You don't have the right to commit a crime against someone expressing their beliefs.
Originally Posted by Viperspit
06-28-2006 06:19 PM
You do if you are prepared to pay the penalty for such action..an action that some people may deem to be terrorism. Terrorizing those you disagree with is a pretty status quo human behavior, one that this country just recently decided is worth going to war over.
To use Canada as an example of what we should do in regards to flag burning is also pretty funny. Conservatives suddenly finding value in what a socialist country does borders on the remarkable. Canadian opposition to US foreign policy notwithstanding, they've been the whipping boy for what horrors would await this country if liberals took over. But dernit, they don't burn flags. LOL
Irony never dies, it just gets better with time like fine wine.
06-28-2006 06:20 PM
Fine wine and moldy cheese!!
06-29-2006 11:16 AM
"we burned the flag of our country at the time...British Union Jack et. al."
we burned the union jack because we wanted nothing to do with the english.. it was treason.. and so if you use that logic.. so are all cases of americans burning their own flag...but that is whats great about or nation... the government wont kill you for burning our flag like the Brittish did to americans.
Our current treason law states:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
hummm giving them aid.. humm NY TIMES COUGH COUGH lol
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