Nick Berg's Father Reacts to the Death of Al-Zaraqwai

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    Nick Berg's Father Reacts to the Death of Al-Zaraqwai


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    CNN.com - Beheaded man's father: Revenge breeds revenge - Jun 8, 2006

    Beheaded man's father: Revenge breeds revenge
    Michael Berg talks about the death of his son and al-Zarqawi

    Thursday, June 8, 2006; Posted: 2:41 p.m. EDT (18:41 GMT)

    A terror-linked Web site showed Nicholas Berg being beheaded, likely by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

    A gruesome video was posted on Islamic Web sites in May, 2004, depicting a man believed to be al-Zarqawi beheading Nicholas Berg, an American businessman who was working in Iraq.

    CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien talks to Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, by phone from Wilmington, Delaware, for his reaction to the news.

    O'BRIEN: Mr. Berg, thank you for talking with us again. It's nice to have an opportunity to talk to you. Of course, I'm curious to know your reaction, as it is now confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who is widely credited and blamed for killing your son, Nicholas, is dead.

    MICHAEL BERG: Well, my reaction is I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed, and I feel bad for that. (Watch video of the two bombs falling on al-Zarqawi -- 2:00)

    I feel doubly bad, though, because Zarqawi is also a political figure, and his death will re-ignite yet another wave of revenge, and revenge is something that I do not follow, that I do want ask for, that I do not wish for against anybody. And it can't end the cycle. As long as people use violence to combat violence, we will always have violence.

    O'BRIEN: I have to say, sir, I'm surprised. I know how devastated you and your family were, frankly, when Nick was killed in such a horrible, and brutal and public way.

    BERG: Well, you shouldn't be surprised, because I have never indicated anything but forgiveness and peace in any interview on the air.

    O'BRIEN: No, no. And we have spoken before, and I'm well aware of that. But at some point, one would think, is there a moment when you say, 'I'm glad he's dead, the man who killed my son'?

    BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?

    O'BRIEN: There have been family members who have weighed in, victims, who've said that they don't think he's a martyr in heaven, that they think, frankly, he went straight to hell ...

    You know, you talked about the fact that he's become a political figure. Are you concerned that he becomes a martyr and a hero and, in fact, invigorates the insurgency in Iraq?

    BERG: Of course. When Nick was killed, I felt that I had nothing left to lose. I'm a pacifist, so I wasn't going out murdering people. But I am -- was not a risk-taking person, and yet now I've done things that have endangered me tremendously.

    I've been shot at. I've been showed horrible pictures. I've been called all kinds of names and threatened by all kinds of people, and yet I feel that I have nothing left to lose, so I do those things.

    Now, take someone who in 1991, who maybe had their family killed by an American bomb, their support system whisked away from them, someone who, instead of being 59, as I was when Nick died, was 5-years-old or 10-years-old. And then if I were that person, might I not learn how to fly a plane into a building or strap a bag of bombs to my back?

    That's what is happening every time we kill an Iraqi, every time we kill anyone, we are creating a large number of people who are going to want vengeance. And, you know, when are we ever going to learn that that doesn't work?

    O'BRIEN: There's an alternate reading, which would say at some point, Iraqis will say the insurgency is not OK -- that they'll be inspired by the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the sense of he was turned in, for example, we believe by his own No. 2, No. 3 leadership in his ranks.

    And, that's actually them saying we do not want this kind of violence in our country. Experts whom we've spoken to this morning have said this is a critical moment where Iraqis need to figure out which direction the country is going to go. That would be an alternate reading to the scenario you're pointing to. (Watch how Iraqi leaders cheered after learning about al-Zarqawi's death -- 4:31)

    BERG: Yes, well, I don't believe that scenario, because every time news of new atrocities committed by Americans in Iraq becomes public, more and more of the everyday Iraqi people who tried to hold out, who tried to be peaceful people lose it and join -- what we call the insurgency, and what I call the resistance, against the occupation of one sovereign nation.

    O'BRIEN: There's a theory that a struggle for democracy, you know...

    BERG: Democracy? Come on, you can't really believe that that's a democracy there when the people who are running the elections are holding guns. That's not democracy.

    O'BRIEN: There's a theory that as they try to form some kind of government, that it's going to be brutal, it's going to be bloody, there's going to be loss, and that's the history of many countries -- and that's just what a lot of people pay for what they believe will be better than what they had under Saddam Hussein.

    BERG: Well, you know, I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good man, but he's no worse than George Bush. Saddam Hussein didn't pull the trigger, didn't commit the rapes. Neither did George Bush. But both men are responsible for them under their reigns of terror.

    I don't buy that. Iraq did not have al Qaeda in it. Al Qaeda supposedly killed my son.

    Under Saddam Hussein, no al Qaeda. Under George Bush, al Qaeda.

    Under Saddam Hussein, relative stability. Under George Bush, instability.

    Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year. I don't get it. Why is it better to have George Bush the king of Iraq rather than Saddam Hussein?

    O'BRIEN: Michael Berg is the father of Nicholas Berg, the young man, the young businessman who was beheaded so brutally in Iraq back in May of 2004.

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    What an idiot! He actually believes that Iraq would be better off under Saddam. He probably believes that Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Amin were all good benevolent rulers.

    Glad he is running on the Green Party's ticket.
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    I just thought it was an interesting reaction, considering what happened to his son. Ive never been the same after seeing that video, and I didnt even know the guy.

    If it were my kid, I probably would have dropped everything I was doing, went back to college for physics for a few years,built my own hydrogen bomb and incenerated that whole region of the globe.

    Still though, I can understand his viewpoint. Violence begets violence. There has to be a reason why so many people in the world despise our country...its not because they're all ignorant or uneducated...I find it hard to believe that the son of a father killed by a US bomb would be able to tell himself "Oh, that's OK, they're doing it for the good of my country". Even if that's part of the reason for it. (politcal stability in the world's most oil-rich reigon being the other part)

    What an idiot! He actually believes that Iraq would be better off under Saddam. He probably believes that Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Amin were all good benevolent rulers.
    Still though, Saddam being a ruthless dictator isnt really the reason why the US went to war in Iraq. There are plenty of other countries that have no political or economic value to us , run by manical murderous bastards, but our government could give two ****s about them.

    BV
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    It`s called compassion...

    Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all things. --Thomas Merton
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    What an idiot! He actually believes that Iraq would be better off under Saddam. He probably believes that Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Amin were all good benevolent rulers.

    Glad he is running on the Green Party's ticket.
    Joseph Stalin was a good leader. Hitler was very intelligent, but should not have killed millions of jews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    It`s called compassion...

    Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all things. --Thomas Merton
    It is called naivety.

    Some people are simply unfit for survival. THey are miserable creatures who would otherwise have perished long ago, but are only kept safe and free, by the exertion and sacrifice of brave souls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mason
    Joseph Stalin was a good leader. Hitler was very intelligent, but should not have killed millions of jews.
    I doubt the 20 million Russians who perished under Uncle Joe's 'good' leadership would agree......

    I doubt how intelligent Hitler was when he constantly fcuking up his generals' plans.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I just thought it was an interesting reaction, considering what happened to his son. Ive never been the same after seeing that video, and I didnt even know the guy.

    If it were my kid, I probably would have dropped everything I was doing, went back to college for physics for a few years,built my own hydrogen bomb and incenerated that whole region of the globe.

    Still though, I can understand his viewpoint. Violence begets violence. There has to be a reason why so many people in the world despise our country...its not because they're all ignorant or uneducated...I find it hard to believe that the son of a father killed by a US bomb would be able to tell himself "Oh, that's OK, they're doing it for the good of my country". Even if that's part of the reason for it. (politcal stability in the world's most oil-rich reigon being the other part)



    Still though, Saddam being a ruthless dictator isnt really the reason why the US went to war in Iraq. There are plenty of other countries that have no political or economic value to us , run by manical murderous bastards, but our government could give two ****s about them.

    BV
    Suckers like him, is the reason that the enemies are emboldened to attack America. They see people like him as suckers and weaklings. They despise people like him. And they think America is weak in its resolve, because Americans are suckers like him.

    We need to get out of out cocoon and go live among the foreigners. We need to feel how they feel, and sense what they sense. In many parts of the worlds, you have people with a very primitive sense of what is right and wrong. They understand power. They respect power. They don't give a phucker about compassion. They will prey on you if they see as weak. Sad, but that is the way the world is. We can pretend otherwise, but that is not changing the reality a bit.
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    All that peaceful stuff may have an ounce of reason behind it. "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall - think of it, always." Mahatma Gandhi
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    Now, take someone who in 1991, who maybe had their family killed by an American bomb, their support system whisked away from them, someone who, instead of being 59, as I was when Nick died, was 5-years-old or 10-years-old. And then if I were that person, might I not learn how to fly a plane into a building or strap a bag of bombs to my back?
    WOW! what an unbelievable bunch of liberal bullsh!t I have never been in favor of the war in Iraq but this kind of justification for using planes to murder thousands of innocent people is so completely idiotic as to defy belief. what a moron
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigVrunga again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCKNUTS
    WOW! what an unbelievable bunch of liberal bullsh!t I have never been in favor of the war in Iraq but this kind of justification for using planes to murder thousands of innocent people is so completely idiotic as to defy belief. what a moron
    It's no different than the reasoning some people who I know who lost family in 9/11 used to justify their desire to nuke the entire middle east, and a few who I know well would have gladly done so at the time and still would. One of my best friends quit her job at a reinsurance company in the towers a few months before and damn near the whole company was lost, 200 plus people I believe. She wasn't too happy about it to say the least and is still a bit ****ed up over it. She lost a lot of friends that she had worked with a long time. There are at least 30,000 dead Iraqis as the result of this war, civilian casualties, and I guarantee you each one of them had at least one person who loved them dearly and was hurt enough by their death to at least consider flying a plane into a building. Not acknowledging that is bull****. Critical in the war on terror if it is to be fought well is to make as few new enemies as possible and give as few new recruits as possible to the enemy. Iraq as a democracy may accomplish that in the long term.

    I don't know what kind of government the Iraqis want or will end up with, how they feel on the whole about America, their religion, our religion, their dead and ours, but they bleed just like everyone else. It would be wise for you to consider, support for the war or not, what your reaction would be if an Iraqi bomb, where ever it was aimed and for whatever purpose, vaporized the person or persons who you love most in this world. However different they may be from us in their mindset and ideology, customs and history, they are human. Whether Americans like it or not, the hatred some in the middle east feel towards is very real and very justified, even if how they act on that hatred is not justified. The wrong acts of others don't excuse or justify your own, and that goes for us and them. And we cannot ignore the human cost on both sides of the war. Their country is substantially smaller than ours in area and population and yet their dead in this conflict outnumber ours by almost 15 to 1. On a mere practical level that's a ratio that has every chance of coming back and biting us in the ass, to say nothing about its moral or ethical implications.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigVrunga again.
    I got him for ya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric
    Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
    Argument from "authority".
    Argument from adverse consequences (putting pressure on the decision maker by pointing out dire consequences of an "unfavorable" decision).
    Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
    Special pleading (typically referring to god's will).
    Begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).
    Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).
    Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).
    Misunderstanding the nature of statistics (President Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence!)
    Inconsistency (e.g. military expenditures based on worst case scenarios but scientific projections on environmental dangers thriftily ignored because they are not "proved").
    Non sequitur - "it does not follow" - the logic falls down.
    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - "it happened after so it was caused by" - confusion of cause and effect.
    Meaningless question ("what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?).
    Excluded middle - considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities (making the "other side" look worse than it really is).
    Short-term vs.. long-term - a subset of excluded middle ("why pursue fundamental science when we have so huge a budget deficit?").
    Slippery slope - a subset of excluded middle - unwarranted extrapolation of the effects (give an inch and they will take a mile).
    Confusion of correlation and causation.
    Straw man - caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack..
    Suppressed evidence or half-truths.
    Weasel words - for example, use of euphemisms for war such as "police action" to get around limitations on Presidential powers. "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions, which under old names have become odious to the public"
    The more befitting title would be "An Orgy of Mental Masturbation: It allows you to pretend that you are smart."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    The more befitting title would be "An Orgy of Mental Masturbation: It allows you to pretend that you are smart."

    After posting I decided you didn`t deserve a response... now I know.
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    Well, you should know by now, I am not one of those who routinely participate in the Orgy of Mental Masturbation.

    That's because I don't need to pretend that I am smart.
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    I just came up with a more sizzling title. "Mental Masturbation: A Free Orgy for Pseudo Intellects to Pretend that They are GETTING IT! "
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    Well, you should know by now, I am not one of those who routinely participate in the Orgy of Mental Masturbation.

    That's because I don't need to pretend that I am smart.
    No you are more into self infatuation or flagellation to the point of Megalomania. You might want to read my original post... it reads like a readers digest version of all your posts since you came here.
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    You are breaking my heart there. So, which part of 'I don't participate in orgy of mental masturbation' don't you understand?

    Since you like writing, ever considered getting a publisher?
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    Let's get back on topic.

    Ok, I confess. I have tons of compassion for dead terrorists. So, let's keep killing them, sending them to hell. Then I can be overwhelmed with passionate compassion for these terrorist scum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    You are breaking my heart there. So, which part of 'I don't participate in orgy of mental masturbation' don't you understand?
    What no smilies?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    It's no different than the reasoning some people who I know who lost family in 9/11 used to justify their desire to nuke the entire middle east, and a few who I know well would have gladly done so at the time and still would. One of my best friends quit her job at a reinsurance company in the towers a few months before and damn near the whole company was lost, 200 plus people I believe. She wasn't too happy about it to say the least and is still a bit ****ed up over it. She lost a lot of friends that she had worked with a long time. There are at least 30,000 dead Iraqis as the result of this war, civilian casualties, and I guarantee you each one of them had at least one person who loved them dearly and was hurt enough by their death to at least consider flying a plane into a building. Not acknowledging that is bull****. Critical in the war on terror if it is to be fought well is to make as few new enemies as possible and give as few new recruits as possible to the enemy. Iraq as a democracy may accomplish that in the long term.

    I don't know what kind of government the Iraqis want or will end up with, how they feel on the whole about America, their religion, our religion, their dead and ours, but they bleed just like everyone else. It would be wise for you to consider, support for the war or not, what your reaction would be if an Iraqi bomb, where ever it was aimed and for whatever purpose, vaporized the person or persons who you love most in this world. However different they may be from us in their mindset and ideology, customs and history, they are human. Whether Americans like it or not, the hatred some in the middle east feel towards is very real and very justified, even if how they act on that hatred is not justified. The wrong acts of others don't excuse or justify your own, and that goes for us and them. And we cannot ignore the human cost on both sides of the war. Their country is substantially smaller than ours in area and population and yet their dead in this conflict outnumber ours by almost 15 to 1. On a mere practical level that's a ratio that has every chance of coming back and biting us in the ass, to say nothing about its moral or ethical implications.
    my reaction to someone killing my loved ones would without a doubt be a desire to seek thier death but if I did kill them it would make me a killer just like them, my point was not to dehumanize middle eastern people or to say that they have no right to be angry but the ends do not justify the means in this case you cannot justify the murder of thousands of innocent people because a relative of yours was killed by an american bomb or an isreali tank and america supports isreal so that justifies the action of cowardly suicide attacks on any american target this is a bs argument i didn't buy it from berg and i don't buy from you either it is sh!t.
    Last edited by BUCKNUTS; 06-09-2006 at 10:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    What no smilies?
    I just added one. Happy?:bb3:
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCKNUTS
    my reaction to someone killing my loved ones would without a doubt be a desire to seek thier death but if I did kill them it would make me a killer just like them, my point was not to dehumanize middle eastern people or to say that they have no right to be angry but the ends do not justify the means in this case you cannot justify the murder of thousands of innocent people because a relative of yours was killed by an american bomb or an isreali tank and america supports isreal so that justifies the action of cowardly suicide attacks on any american target this is a bs argument i didn't guy it from berg and i don't buy from you either it is sh!t.
    Don't you get it? It is called 'making excuses'. The lefties and the America Haters have perfected that skill ever since the days they worked for the KGB in their world peace movement. Back then, they were making excuses for the Soviet communists. With the demise of their KGB puppeteers, they have found a new love in Islamo Facist terrorist scum.
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    I know I couldn`t say something like he did... even though my beliefs are such. Kill my son and you can burn in < prefered destination>.

    But a 1000x1000 years of killing and what do we got? More of the same?



    Hey Bio, did you know King George thought the Founders of this nation were terrorists?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    ...Hey Bio, did you know King George thought the Founders of this nation were terrorists?
    So? Who gives a raging fcvk what he thought?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    Don't you get it? It is called 'making excuses'. The lefties and the America Haters have perfected that skill ever since the days they worked for the KGB in their world peace movement. Back then, they were making excuses for the Soviet communists. With the demise of their KGB puppeteers, they have found a new love in Islamo Facist terrorist scum.
    you sound a bit like Michael Savage ever listen to the Savage Nation? he had it right when he refered to liberalism as a mental disorder
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    It is called naivety.

    Some people are simply unfit for survival. THey are miserable creatures who would otherwise have perished long ago, but are only kept safe and free, by the exertion and sacrifice of brave souls.
    Wow, I'm really glad people like you are here to save the world from itself. God forbid there were more peaceful people in the world and less G.I. Joe types such as yourself.

    I usually stay out of these debates, but your comments are very irritating. Do you perhaps think that the meddling in the rest of the world's affairs with people with a mindset such as yourself might possibly have something to do with the hatred of America displayed in so many parts of the world?
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver
    Wow, I'm really glad people like you are here to save the world from itself. God forbid there were more peaceful people in the world and less G.I. Joe types such as yourself.

    I usually stay out of these debates, but your comments are very irritating. Do you perhaps think that the meddling in the rest of the world's affairs with people with a mindset such as yourself might possibly have something to do with the hatred of America displayed in so many parts of the world?
    If you haven't gotten it by now, he's a troll. Basically looking to get a rise out of you, nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if he was posting a completely different point of view on another board just to piss the people there off. Ignore list, best solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCKNUTS
    you sound a bit like Michael Savage ever listen to the Savage Nation? he had it right when he refered to liberalism as a mental disorder
    I know about him, eventhough I don't pay much attention to media pundits, whichever side they are on. I am sure I probably share most of his views, however.

    There comes a point in life, when one does not need to listen to opinion leaders (nor consult the Holy Foreign Policy Journal ) to know how things fit in the context of the greater scheme.

    Liberalism is a psychological defect. There is no other way to describe this perversion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver
    Wow, I'm really glad people like you are here to save the world from itself. God forbid there were more peaceful people in the world and less G.I. Joe types such as yourself.

    I usually stay out of these debates, but your comments are very irritating. Do you perhaps think that the meddling in the rest of the world's affairs with people with a mindset such as yourself might possibly have something to do with the hatred of America displayed in so many parts of the world?
    You opinion of me, means as much to me, as Osama's opinion of me.

    Having said that, like every patriot, I too am very proud to be called G I Joe.

    Btw, why do you suppose the 17 newly arrested Canadians wanted to do when they purchased from undercover agents, 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate then? Perhads because the Canadians have been '..meddling in the rest of the world's affairs..' ? Well, there goes your logic. Back to the drawing board to come up with more anti American trash, huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    If you haven't gotten it by now, he's a troll. Basically looking to get a rise out of you, nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if he was posting a completely different point of view on another board just to piss the people there off. Ignore list, best solution.
    Actually, that would be you, because that description fits your personality to the fit. A guy with nothing better to do then to post up a storm of utter nonsense of over 2000 posts of mental masturbation.

    It is so funny that you have this marvelous record of keep looking into the mirror and come up with this finger pointing stuffs.

    So, how is your international adventure coming along? Now now, having breakfast at the International House of Pancake, does not count as foreign experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    You opinion of me, means as much to me, as Osama's opinion of me.

    Btw, why do you suppose the 17 newly arrested Canadians wanted to do when they purchased from undercover agents, 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate then? Perhads because the Canadians have been '..meddling in the rest of the world's affairs..' ? Well, there goes your logic. Back to the drawing board to come up with more anti American trash, huh?
    I'm not anti-American in the slightest, my problem more lies with your current administration, and the globe-trotting let's fix the rest of the world attitude that comes along with it. Instead of concerning itself more with fixing the ills within it's own nation, the braintrust at the whitehouse is busy playing Julius Caeser. I really don't like the fact that if we don't blindly follow alongside with our American neighbours, and instead make our own decisions on foreign affairs, we get the short end of the stick in trade disputes, and are generally maligned, labelled as Frechmen, etc. etc.

    I'll be the first to admit that Canada's previous government's stance on border security was a total farce, and that has led to Canada being a breeding/training ground for terrorists, that simply has to stop. However, I don't think running around in the middle east and burning up limited resources on a garbage war is the way to fix the problems we have right here, right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver
    I'm not anti-American in the slightest, my problem more lies with your current administration, and the globe-trotting let's fix the rest of the world attitude that comes along with it. Instead of concerning itself more with fixing the ills within it's own nation, the braintrust at the whitehouse is busy playing Julius Caeser. I really don't like the fact that if we don't blindly follow alongside with our American neighbours, and instead make our own decisions on foreign affairs, we get the short end of the stick in trade disputes, and are generally maligned, labelled as Frechmen, etc. etc.
    Of course!! It is ALL Bush's fault! How could I have forgotten! That explains it. Silly me!!!

    Let's get some bleeding heart, tracherous moral degenerate into office, and all will be fine. All the world's problems will be gone. Paradise on earth! Problem solved!

    I'll be the first to admit that Canada's previous government's stance on border security was a total farce, and that has led to Canada being a breeding/training ground for terrorists, that simply has to stop. However, I don't think running around in the middle east and burning up limited resources on a garbage war is the way to fix the problems we have right here, right now.
    I think you didn't read the news careful enough.... Those 17 scumbags were buying up Ammonium Nitrate to bomb YOUR government. Since the Canadians have never wrong the Islamo Facists, so why are you on their hit list? Can you explain that? Could it be because you have not converted to Islam and Canada has not become a Caliphate ruled by Osama? I suggest you people had better get to it right away. We don't want to continue to cause emotional distress to these Islamo Facists. Afterall, where is your compassion?
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    Well, you should know by now, I am not one of those who routinely participate in the Orgy of Mental Masturbation.

    That's because I don't need to pretend that I am smart.
    Actually, that would be you, because that description fits your personality to the fit. A guy with nothing better to do then to post up a storm of utter nonsense of over 2000 posts of mental masturbation.

    It is so funny that you have this marvelous record of keep looking into the mirror and come up with this finger pointing stuffs.

    So, how is your international adventure coming along? Now now, having breakfast at the International House of Pancake, does not count as foreign experience.
    BioHazzard,

    Just because someone does not agree with you, does not make it OK for you to insult them. If you can't be constructive with your opnions and/or arguments, then don't post. This thread is degenerating into you hurling personal insults at anyone who does not align with your political views, and that isnt cool. Please keep it civil, and show some respect.

    BV
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    Of course!! It is ALL Bush's fault! How could I have forgotten! That explains it. Silly me!!!

    Let's get some bleeding heart, tracherous moral degenerate into office, and all will be fine. All the world's problems will be gone. Paradise on earth! Problem solved!


    I think you didn't read the news careful enough.... Those 17 scumbags were buying up Ammonium Nitrate to bomb YOUR government. Since the Canadians have never wrong the Islamo Facists, so why are you on their hit list? Can you explain that? Could it be because you have not converted to Islam and Cananda has not become a Caliphate ruled by Osama?


    I see no point in continuing to argue with the initial member of the George W. Bush fan club. I see that in your eyes he cannot commit any wrong whatsoever, no matter how unjustified a war he starts under false pretences. I see it doesn't matter either that a great percentage of the American public doesn't support the war in Iraq either, they must all be communist, bleeding heart democrats as well. (Oh, let me guess, those polls are made up by the liberal media)

    Let's team up and invade every country with different values than our own, what the rest of the world thinks doesn't matter after all because we know better. God tells us that it is our right to invade foreign soil, overthrow governments and install puppet democracies. They'll thank us for it after all because it is god's will.

    So what do you offer up as the ultimate solution to the problems in the middle east? What has been done up this point obviously hasn't worked, as we now have the spectre of terrorist groups striking at our own countries, which wasn't always the case. I don't really see you offer anything of value, other than to denegrate every person with viewpoints other than your own, name calling, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    BioHazzard,

    Just because someone does not agree with you, does not make it OK for you to insult them. If you can't be constructive with your opnions and/or arguments, then don't post. This thread is degenerating into you hurling personal insults at anyone who does not align with your political views, and that isnt cool. Please keep it civil, and show some respect.

    BV
    I am not the one who threw the first stone. If people don't insult me, I don't insult them personally. Simple rule. You can't enforce the rule against those who disagree with you but let those who agree with you slide.

    I was commenting on Michael Berg and not members, but others want to attack me personally. So, why are they getting a slide from you?

    If you stop other people from hurling personal insult, you wouldn't have me doing any of that. I am not the initiator of the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver


    I see no point in continuing to argue with the initial member of the George W. Bush fan club. I see that in your eyes he cannot commit any wrong whatsoever, no matter how unjustified a war he starts under false pretences. I see it doesn't matter either that a great percentage of the American public doesn't support the war in Iraq either, they must all be communist, bleeding heart democrats as well. (Oh, let me guess, those polls are made up by the liberal media)

    Let's team up and invade every country with different values than our own, what the rest of the world thinks doesn't matter after all because we know better. God tells us that it is our right to invade foreign soil, overthrow governments and install puppet democracies. They'll thank us for it after all because it is god's will.

    So what do you offer up as the ultimate solution to the problems in the middle east? What has been done up this point obviously hasn't worked, as we now have the spectre of terrorist groups striking at our own countries, which wasn't always the case. I don't really see you offer anything of value, other than to denegrate every person with viewpoints other than your own, name calling, etc.
    You still refuse to answer my question as to what your explaination is for the 17 scumbags who bought up 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate and ready to attack Canada.

    You insist that America is wrong. Well, Canada is doing everything right. So how come?

    It just blows all your argument out of the water. Every bit of your argument fell on its face.
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    When did I imply that Canada was doing everything right? You are putting words in my mouth. I never even brought up Canada until you decided the best way to prove your argument was to use the recently foiled terrorist attack.

    I implicitly stated that these islamic extremists likely shouldn't have been in this country to start with, and wouldn't be surprised if at some point they were refugees or some other such status. If it were up to me there'd be huge restrictions placed on who is allowed to come to this country in the first place, beefed up border security (our border guards aren't even armed which is absolutely ridiculous), more intelligence funding would be allocated, etc. Not once have I implied that Canada's response to anything has been perfect, just that I disagree with America's actions as of late.

    These extremists hate western society, and I theorize that alot of the lashing out they do against western society is because of the meddling that the American government has done both in the past, and currently as well. How many foreign citizens were being kidnapped in Iraq and beheaded there before the US decided to invade? This war on terrorism thusfar just seems to be throwing fuel on the fire and inciting even more hatred.

    What exactly blows my argument out of the water? The fact that islamic terrorists attempted to strike on Canadian soil? I could easily argue that the reason they struck here is because of our very close relationship with the US, and we are being held in their eyes as being guilty by association. But even bringing up that possibility of course would make me a communist/bleeding-heart/hippy liberal in your eyes.
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    I am not the one who threw the first stone. If people don't insult me, I don't insult them personally. Simple rule. You can't enforce the rule against those who disagree with you but let those who agree with you slide.

    I was commenting on Michael Berg and not members, but others want to attack me personally. So, why are they getting a slide from you?

    If you stop other people from hurling personal insult, you wouldn't have me doing any of that. I am not the initiator of the problem.
    And where did this happen? Before or after you inferred that everyone with a leftward viewpoint had a mental disorder?

    Look man, honestly I could give a **** whose right and wrong here, or who I agree with. What I do care about is a thread degenerating into a bunch of bull**** namecalling and unproductive flamewar crap. There are plenty of other members with viewpoints similar to yours on this board who can pose their argument eloquently and without insulting other members.

    Thread closed. If you'd like to discuss it further, take it to PM.

    BV
  

  
 

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