Our Politicians, Denizens of our Moral Fiber...
- Thread starter BigVrunga
- Start date
bioman
Well-known member
It seriously is time to clean house. Unfortunately, people are like sheep and keep voting these scumbag incumbants in office. I seriously hope the Cunnigham case leads to dozens of other arrests and prosicutions..but I doubt it.
You should read all the crap DeLay had his fingers in..the f'in hypocrite and his righteous family values BS. Makes ya wanna scream.
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You should read all the crap DeLay had his fingers in..the f'in hypocrite and his righteous family values BS. Makes ya wanna scream.
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The Experiment
Board Supporter
The Republican party is pretty much the grimy slopbucket of ethics in American politics. Greedy, profit mongering bastards who smile at you but have no objection to bending you over so long as it benefits them. Praise family values but regularly violates the Seven Origninal Sins and the Ten Commandments.
I'm glad the Republicans are getting their due. Rush Limbaugh was arrested for prescription drugs recently. The same guy that wants nothing but harsh punishments for drug users, you think he wants the same harshness towards him?
I'm glad the Republicans are getting their due. Rush Limbaugh was arrested for prescription drugs recently. The same guy that wants nothing but harsh punishments for drug users, you think he wants the same harshness towards him?
bioman
Well-known member
The Dems aren't really any better, but it seems like lately their level of corruption is like comparing a stupid Vaudeville act to a Broadway performance.
I suppose I still struggle with being naive..I have a hard time believing how vile these people are but the proof just keeps showing up everywhere. The stuff in Saipan is just so sad...that we in any way can do that to people in this day and age. Someone has to pay for that evil.
I suppose I still struggle with being naive..I have a hard time believing how vile these people are but the proof just keeps showing up everywhere. The stuff in Saipan is just so sad...that we in any way can do that to people in this day and age. Someone has to pay for that evil.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
Jesus Christ, when will this madness end ? Do we have to stockpile guns, march to DC and incarcerate those fVckers oourselves ?
CDB
Registered User
bioman said:
I see no difference. The Republicans pander to businesses, making favorable laws for them and ignoring illegal behavior so they can reap profits in ways a true capitalist society would never allow. The Democrats pander to the poor and entitlement crazy, and are one of the major reasons we have 12 million illlegal aliens marching in our streets on a regular basis demanding their 'rights,' mainly referring to their 'right' to violate crucial security laws, their 'right' to your and my money, and their 'right' to burn American flags and fly them upside down under the Mexican flag.
You'll find equal corruption all around. Both sides claim the moral high ground while they're wallowing in ethical ****.
Beowulf
Registered User
I'm with Bio on the distrust on both sides. Before I joined this site, I had the most negative impression of people who invoke Christ in everything they do. I was guilty of judging based on religious affiliation.
Since coming here, I've found some of the smartest, kindest people to be very openly Christian, and I think it is great. These scumbag, hypocrite politicains do nothing more than stuff their pockets as they deepen the divide among different groups within our own country. They set the stereotypes that make some of us (our own ignorance) judge based on those stereotypes.
Since coming here, I've found some of the smartest, kindest people to be very openly Christian, and I think it is great. These scumbag, hypocrite politicains do nothing more than stuff their pockets as they deepen the divide among different groups within our own country. They set the stereotypes that make some of us (our own ignorance) judge based on those stereotypes.
bioman
Well-known member
It'd be cool to start a Moderate Party and just kick the crap out of all the extremists, ideaological zealots and crooks at the polling boths, but I think things have to get worse before that can happen.
I like a lot of what the Libertarians have to offer, however selling off the publics lands is something I cannot support. Open borders I am not fond of either and I think if they ditched these two pillars of their ideaology, they'd go much, much further with the public. We need some of their ideaologies in our govt...independence from govt handouts, lower taxes, less govt.
I like a lot of what the Libertarians have to offer, however selling off the publics lands is something I cannot support. Open borders I am not fond of either and I think if they ditched these two pillars of their ideaology, they'd go much, much further with the public. We need some of their ideaologies in our govt...independence from govt handouts, lower taxes, less govt.
CDB
Registered User
BigVrunga said:Maybe we should start our own party, and have a million bodybuilder march on washington
...on the Million Body Builder March this past weekend, Patrick Arnold was quoted, "I seriously doubt it was a million body builders. However the march I organized was much closer to its projected participation numbers..."
Spartan117
Member
A serious third party, one that can actually challenge the two in existence now, is the only way we can keep politicians in check. Why should either party adhere to ethics when they know that they are the only people who will get elected. Its also a joke to to think that either party believes they represent us. UNtil you and I can afford lobbyists and genorous donations we will never have a voice. Politics make me sick to my stomach because I can't make a difference. Personally, I think voting is a joke(I do vote). These people USE us to get into office and then only react based on what lines their pockets. I'll quit there because I could go on for awhile.
bioman
Well-known member
There's about a dozen factors coming into place that will make all of that just go away.
Global warming and rising ocean levels are going to seriously fvck things up..Katrina x 100.
The influx of illegals mooching off the system precisely at the right time before all the baby boomers retire and need to rely on them..oopsey.
The Iraqi quagmire really seems to only get worse and no one has the bollocks to either pull out or escalate so here we are in a costly 'Nam part two. Probably spend almost a trillion bucks before leaving.
Rise in world demand for oil making it very unlikely that prices will ever go down. Many experts predict prices doubling in the next 3-5 years.
The loss of value of the US dollar while the Euro continues to climb. The Saudis now only take Euros, and why wouldn't they? So poof..35% jump in oil prices.
The Feds are seriously looking into fedralizing home owner's insurance in all the areas the insurance companies won't cover..CA, LA, MS, AL, FL. Ouch.
More than a few experts are predicting a recession very soon.
I need a drink :drunk:
Global warming and rising ocean levels are going to seriously fvck things up..Katrina x 100.
The influx of illegals mooching off the system precisely at the right time before all the baby boomers retire and need to rely on them..oopsey.
The Iraqi quagmire really seems to only get worse and no one has the bollocks to either pull out or escalate so here we are in a costly 'Nam part two. Probably spend almost a trillion bucks before leaving.
Rise in world demand for oil making it very unlikely that prices will ever go down. Many experts predict prices doubling in the next 3-5 years.
The loss of value of the US dollar while the Euro continues to climb. The Saudis now only take Euros, and why wouldn't they? So poof..35% jump in oil prices.
The Feds are seriously looking into fedralizing home owner's insurance in all the areas the insurance companies won't cover..CA, LA, MS, AL, FL. Ouch.
More than a few experts are predicting a recession very soon.
I need a drink :drunk:
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
Sadly, the greatest bodybuilding representative we could ever have is already governing the state of California. The sad part is he is a complete tool of the system.
Always question all authority!!!
If your representation is not by the people, of the people and for the people, they must be removed...
That is not only your constitutional right. It is your constitutional obligation!
Always question all authority!!!
If your representation is not by the people, of the people and for the people, they must be removed...
That is not only your constitutional right. It is your constitutional obligation!
BodyWizard
Registered User
word - and these days, voting for EITHER evil just makes me want to puke.BigVrunga said:
I'm down with a TRUE 3rd party; I've voted Libertarian for years, but the Libs are more a debating society than a force for real change & real sanity - hell, a vast number of reactionary, hard-shell control freaks have been calling themselves 'libertarians' for years, to the point that a lot of folks who have true libertarian ideals are put off by the likes of Boortz & Hannity. Makes me doubt that my protest vote is delivering the message I'm trying to send.
CDB
Registered User
I do not mean to be a prick, but whose fault is that? There are other options. Reading one of my looney right wing magazines today, I ran across a story about fatalism. Someone is given a puzzle they can't solve, even goes to the point of trying to find the solution on the web but can't, and gives it up as impossible. They lend it to someone who quite simply has a different attitude and within days the puzzle is solved.BigVrunga said:
As long as individual voters are fatalistic and vote for what they think is the slow road to hell rather than voting for what they believe in this country is going to go to ****. There are other choices and that they don't get elected is quite frankly the fault of the people who don't elect them. Vote for what you believe in or don't vote at all. You do no one, including yourself, any favors by voting for what you think is the lesser of two evils.
I'm no fan of democracy in general, I think it's doomed to failure. However, that could easily be turned around by the people. Here in America we are given an actual voice in creating our government. There's nothing forcing you to vote for the candidate who got the most air time. There's nothing forcing you to vote for the lesser of two evils. Doing so is like blindly believing any other type of advertisement, and I don't think people buy everything they see a commercial for. Most Americans have taken a fatalistic view of voting, and devalued the act of voting or have simply stopped doing so. That is their own fault.
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MaynardMeek
Well-known member
lol body wizard actually said "word" lol :rofl:
BigVrunga
Well-known member
You're not being a prick CDB - I agree with what you said there. The reality of it is though, either a Democrat or a Republican is going to win a major election. Voicing your opinion by voting for a more obscure party often just serves the purpose of taking votes 'away' from one of the major parties, allowing the party you didnt want in there in the first place to win the election.
It's either the Democrats or the Republicans who win major elections. That's the problem. And you're right the power to change that is in the people, but it doesnt happen. So by voting for another, more obscure party, my vote basically does jack ****.
Saying the people have the power to elect anyone they want and all that is true, but neglects the enourmous amount of cash and media influence someone needs to have even half a chance at running in a major political election.
Right, but one of those 'two evils' IS going to win, regardless of where I cast my vote. Even when there is a strong 3rd party candidate, he basically just serves to take votes away from one of the two major parties. They've got a monopoly on power although voting them out could change things, its going to be a long time before it ever happens.
BV
CDB
Registered User
That's fatalism, and you're guaranteed to lose if you follow that ideology. You're voting for what you don't want. If you cast a vote for the Green party or the Libertarians or any other third party, they might not win and probably won't win. If you cast a vote for the Republicans or the Democrats the third parties will definitely not win.BigVrunga said:
It doesn't change because of that attitude though. You have to understand you are not gaining anything by voting for what you don't believe in. Voting for the scenic route to hell over the interstate route is still a vote for hell. Voting for what you consider the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. It gives you nothing, advances you toward no goal, does not improve your life, and gives you no satisfaction in terms of conscience.
I would say it's the people have decided they will only pay attention to those who have a lot of cash and media influence, and that's a different ball game. In the end the alternatives are easily researched and all you need to do to vote for one of them is mark their box on a ballot, pull their lever, etc.
They why bother voting for either? Your vote makes more of a difference when cast for a third party. The sheer amount of resources available for the two majors shows just how much they really don't need individual votes here and there.
As long as people keep thinking in this fatalistic way, it will never change. More to the point, say you were a woman and had three choices. One, you could be raped. Two, you could be date raped, basically a rape after a nice dinner. Three, you could date a good guy who you'd like to marry. The end result that you will be subjected to will be decided by an aggregate vote. What kind of attitude would you have to have to vote yourself option one or two no matter how likely it was for the aggregate vote to end up with those options? That's what you're dealing with in every election, and somehow the Republicans and Democrats have convinced you and a lot of others that since the outcome will be one or two, you may as well just vote yourself the most pleasant form of rape anyway.
Personally I'd vote for option three all the time no matter what the herd was likely to do. I don't know how I could maintain my self respect otherwise.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
I agree with you on all the points you made, but more people have to think that way for it to make a difference. Take, for instance, the current political situation. I think its imperative the the Republicans be removed from power this time around, but voting for a 3rd party, like the libertarian party, will inevitably take more votes away from the Democrats than it will from the Reps. So by staying true to what I believe in and voting for a 3rd party, Im actually helping the party I really dont want to be in power to maintain their position. Only because the majority believes as you describe it, of course, but what are you going to do? I suppose by caving and voting for 'the lesser of the two evils' we'll end up in the same destination (hell), and I'll be partially responsible. By voting for what's right and not paying into the dem/rep monopoly, we'll still probably all end up in hell, but it wont be a result of any decision Ive made through my voting.
The Experiment
Board Supporter
I personally think we're getting extremely close to a breaking point in American politics personally. Many people have an extreme mistrust of their politicians and pretty much have few outlets to turn to.
People might suggest the Democrats but they had an iron fist in Congress for decades and besides the New Deal, very little was accomplished. People hate Republicans now. My neighboring farmers hate Republicans. My friends in the Marines hate Republicans. The state of Iowa hates Republicans. Yet they got there for one reason, the Democrats didn't do enough. So as much as playing the polarized game seem fun, voting Blue in 2006 is a step in the right direction but not a solution to the problem.
The Government was put here for one reason: to serve the people. Yet since arguably Reaganomics, the Government has turned their backs on the people and focused attention to executives at major businesses. Keep in mind, working for the people doesn't mean a socialist approach since capitalism is better overall for everyone. Its getting to the point where the Government is bending 300 million people over in favor of a few thousand. Its not right and I refuse to believe that this kind of government and the Reaganomics policy is correct.
Third parties are the answer. Someone who shakes the very foundations of Congress. In order to compete with the third party, the Democrats and Republicans start pushing candidates who are similar to the third party. These third parties I suggest must work for the people and never a special interest group.
By looking at all the parties, none of the "alternative" parties are the answer. They're either too extreme or just nonsensical. I would be a full supporter of a "Moderate Party" that works for the people and creates laws that benefit society overall, not groups who are represented by lobbyists.
It might seem like a pipe dream because we've all become too complacent. We're being told that a third party is outside the realm of probability but why? The reason is that we're all, generalizing here and counting myself, care more about ourselves than the public. Imagine the forefathers at our society: who'd rather shove potato chips in our faces and watch TV than change the Congress that is screwing us royally. Or how more people voted for American Idol than the 2000 elections. Or how we've let the media conglomerates and the inverse totalitarianism (read up on it) dominate our very existences.
I'm sure this rant was going places but whatever.
People might suggest the Democrats but they had an iron fist in Congress for decades and besides the New Deal, very little was accomplished. People hate Republicans now. My neighboring farmers hate Republicans. My friends in the Marines hate Republicans. The state of Iowa hates Republicans. Yet they got there for one reason, the Democrats didn't do enough. So as much as playing the polarized game seem fun, voting Blue in 2006 is a step in the right direction but not a solution to the problem.
The Government was put here for one reason: to serve the people. Yet since arguably Reaganomics, the Government has turned their backs on the people and focused attention to executives at major businesses. Keep in mind, working for the people doesn't mean a socialist approach since capitalism is better overall for everyone. Its getting to the point where the Government is bending 300 million people over in favor of a few thousand. Its not right and I refuse to believe that this kind of government and the Reaganomics policy is correct.
Third parties are the answer. Someone who shakes the very foundations of Congress. In order to compete with the third party, the Democrats and Republicans start pushing candidates who are similar to the third party. These third parties I suggest must work for the people and never a special interest group.
By looking at all the parties, none of the "alternative" parties are the answer. They're either too extreme or just nonsensical. I would be a full supporter of a "Moderate Party" that works for the people and creates laws that benefit society overall, not groups who are represented by lobbyists.
It might seem like a pipe dream because we've all become too complacent. We're being told that a third party is outside the realm of probability but why? The reason is that we're all, generalizing here and counting myself, care more about ourselves than the public. Imagine the forefathers at our society: who'd rather shove potato chips in our faces and watch TV than change the Congress that is screwing us royally. Or how more people voted for American Idol than the 2000 elections. Or how we've let the media conglomerates and the inverse totalitarianism (read up on it) dominate our very existences.
I'm sure this rant was going places but whatever.
CDB
Registered User
BigVrunga said:
I agree. But we're never going to hit the breaking point if people like you, who by your posts I judge to be quite a bit more intelligent than average and not so easily led, allow themselves te be led. The aggregate vote that will eventually get a third party in will be made up of individual votes cast by people like you and me. The sooner you add your vote, the sooner the turn around will come. The longer you avoid that and submit to the fatalistic viewpoint, the worse things will get and the longer the bad situation will last. Like I said, when you go into that voting booth it can't be about what everyone else is doing or will probably do, it's about what you do.
They will maintain that position regardless, because the Democratic position will likely be the same or worse just in different ways. The two major parties are different aspects of the same ideology, there will be no major change as long as either is in power. The truly wasted vote is one you don't believe in, one cast against your conscience. Following your viewpoint is in fact what the majors want, because it leads to a cycle of never ending votes like yours. Say the midterm and 2008 elections are decided by one vote, and it's yours. All you've done is put Republicans in a position where they have to bargain a little with the Democrats to get what they want. You're not seriously injuring their agenda one bit. Same for the other way around.
Once more it's the scenic route or the interstate to hell. Taking either route does not change the destination, so it's a meaningless and wasted choice in the end either way.
Lead by example.
Keep voting for them though and the destination is on your head. And you will have made no significant effort to change it. That's something I couldn't live with, so I choose not to.
Beowulf
Registered User
The biggest obstacle, as has already been alluded to, is the fact that the 2 parties dominate the media. 3rd party candidates never get more than a freakshow mention on page 7, unless we are hearing about conservatives organizing for Nader to sabotage Kerry--scandal.
Passion thrived throughout in the 1770's, but we have to consider how different their lives were. Most were laborers of some sort, sweating for every dollar. They had nothing comparable to the inundation of intermittent messages and nonsense to which we are constantly subjected.
I've voted 3rd party in 2 of the 3 elections that I've been eligigle for--1 state, and 2 national. I was obsessed with politics at the time, and I was always enraged at the fact that whenever politics came up, I never heard anything more than simplistic talking points from both sides. No one actually knew the issues, beyond feeble sloganeering. If the conversation were to switch to sports or Survivor or the Apprentice, they would suddenly perk up and become passionate. The masses are marionettes who are sustained by media manipulation. They are not bad people; they just lack the critical perspective to question established order.
I am undecided about his anarchist theories, but Noam Chomsky definitley nails the media role in manipulation in the book Manufacturing Consent. There is also a DVD documentary by the same name that conveys Chomsky's major ideas on the subject.
I think the biggest factor in fostering change will be getting people to genuinely care about the future of the nation. Until real issues can become as passion-provoking as prime-time reality entertainment, I think we're doomed.
Passion thrived throughout in the 1770's, but we have to consider how different their lives were. Most were laborers of some sort, sweating for every dollar. They had nothing comparable to the inundation of intermittent messages and nonsense to which we are constantly subjected.
I've voted 3rd party in 2 of the 3 elections that I've been eligigle for--1 state, and 2 national. I was obsessed with politics at the time, and I was always enraged at the fact that whenever politics came up, I never heard anything more than simplistic talking points from both sides. No one actually knew the issues, beyond feeble sloganeering. If the conversation were to switch to sports or Survivor or the Apprentice, they would suddenly perk up and become passionate. The masses are marionettes who are sustained by media manipulation. They are not bad people; they just lack the critical perspective to question established order.
I am undecided about his anarchist theories, but Noam Chomsky definitley nails the media role in manipulation in the book Manufacturing Consent. There is also a DVD documentary by the same name that conveys Chomsky's major ideas on the subject.
I think the biggest factor in fostering change will be getting people to genuinely care about the future of the nation. Until real issues can become as passion-provoking as prime-time reality entertainment, I think we're doomed.
Spartan117
Member
The point, IMO, is that voting can be very demoralizing especially at the national level. I have a theory that voting should be taken more seriously at the local level. Changes are more easily achieved there and a voters chance to get to know the candidate for what they really stand for should be easier. With the Federal governemnt providing a general framework for how locals should operate but still allowing them to make stand alone decisions and specifying laws and procedures shouldn't local politics have a trickle up effect...meaning that if enough people vote a certain way across the nation at the local level then that trend should continue up, but so much emphasis is place on national elections.
Spartan117
Member
EEmain your'e right but I'm talking more about the ideaology that can begin at that level. For example I met a candidate for a local election at the gym the other day who after talking to him I believe in what he had to say. Now this guy will never be able to run at the national level, but if in my area we could get enough people in office with that idealogy then our state rep has to act accordingly or risk not being re-elected. If enough state politicians with decent idealogy get into office then the national politicians should start listening to what we have to say and so on. This is prolly just wishfull thinking though.
EEmain
Registered User
I have seen this happen on a local level with the Blacks years ago. Mayoral election where the canidate was percieved to be racist. The voters turned out in record numbers and shot down the charter change to let him run again. And got political power from it. But where did that lead... Corruption. Which is what my city is famous for, well that and booing McNabb:icon_lol:
Recently the Gay/Lesbian community forced a gym owner of a predominatly Gay gym who supported Santorum to sell out to his partner.
People can and will do something when properly motivated.
Recently the Gay/Lesbian community forced a gym owner of a predominatly Gay gym who supported Santorum to sell out to his partner.
People can and will do something when properly motivated.
Spartan117
Member
So the question is what do we do to get people properly motivated and quit blindly following?
Spartan117
Member
Thats prolly true but for some reason religous affiliation plays a huge role in how people view these politicians. So people will continue to wear their blinders and not feel f***ed as long as the politicians play to their religous idealogies. I mean I had a guy tell me the other day that I think Bush is basically a retard but he believes in him because the believe in the same religion. WTF?
BigVrunga
Well-known member
My sentiments exactly!! Enough people havent been ****ed by the system bad enough to demand change. The republicans have ****ed up royally over the past 8 years. No doubt, this next wave of elections and the Democrats will be in power. If they keep this steam train of political ineptitude rolling for yet another 8 (which I can only assume they will) then maybe we'll see some real changes happen. I hope so...this is getting ridiculous.
BioHazzard
Banned
The Experiment said:
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Go Nader!! Nader for 2008!
Lefties for Nader 2008!! Mal Contents for Nader 2008! Treehuggers for Nader 2008! Commies for Nader 2008!
BioHazzard
Banned
Busy with international clients.EEmain said:I was wondering where you have been:blink:
The financial and commodities markets are going insane. Everybody wants in. It is insame. But I think the hangover is right around the corner. lol
CDB
Registered User
BigVrunga said:
I wouldn't be so sure. I know Republican woman who would vote for her just because she's a woman. I've yet to meet a woman who actually thinks rationally, I have the feeling a lot of female Republicans would find some way to justify voting Democrat just to support her if she runs.
CDB
Registered User
BigVrunga said:Ah, that's a good point CDB. Well, we can be sure that after 4 years of Hilary Clinton a 3rd party would have a real shot at winning major elections..
After 4 years of Hilary we could probably raise enough support to ammend the constitution and get W back in office.
The Experiment
Board Supporter
Patriot Act 3?