Righteous god-granted soldiers of truth, deciding how we should live our lives and what are inalienable rights *really* are...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521205/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521205/
Holy ****. These people are just filthy scoundrels...they're evil. I wonder how far this kind of **** is going to go before the drastic changes that are needed to fix this country's downward spiral are going to be made.You should read all the crap DeLay had his fingers in..the f'in hypocrite and his righteous family values BS. Makes ya wanna scream.
http://www.texasobserver.org/showArt...ArticleID=1743
I see no difference. The Republicans pander to businesses, making favorable laws for them and ignoring illegal behavior so they can reap profits in ways a true capitalist society would never allow. The Democrats pander to the poor and entitlement crazy, and are one of the major reasons we have 12 million illlegal aliens marching in our streets on a regular basis demanding their 'rights,' mainly referring to their 'right' to violate crucial security laws, their 'right' to your and my money, and their 'right' to burn American flags and fly them upside down under the Mexican flag.The Dems aren't really any better, but it seems like lately their level of corruption is like comparing a stupid Vaudeville act to a Broadway performance.
+1, although I still dont trust overly religious types.I'm with Bio on the distrust on both sides. Before I joined this site, I had the most negative impression of people who invoke Christ in everything they do. I was guilty of judging based on religious affiliation.
Since coming here, I've found some of the smartest, kindest people to be very openly Christian, and I think it is great. These scumbag, hypocrite politicains do nothing more than stuff their pockets as they deepen the divide among different groups within our own country. They set the stereotypes that make some of us (our own ignorance) judge based on those stereotypes.
I've found a teacher who can still learn to be a rare but valuable commodity. Reps to you.I'm with Bio on the distrust on both sides. Before I joined this site, I had the most negative impression of people who invoke Christ in everything they do. I was guilty of judging based on religious affiliation.
Since coming here, I've found some of the smartest, kindest people to be very openly Christian, and I think it is great. These scumbag, hypocrite politicains do nothing more than stuff their pockets as they deepen the divide among different groups within our own country. They set the stereotypes that make some of us (our own ignorance) judge based on those stereotypes.
...on the Million Body Builder March this past weekend, Patrick Arnold was quoted, "I seriously doubt it was a million body builders. However the march I organized was much closer to its projected participation numbers..."Maybe we should start our own party, and have a million bodybuilder march on washington
Your right politics on the national level is a ****ing joke! It seems they either sell themselves for a handfull of rice or pose to be something they aren`t.A serious third party, one that can actually challenge the two in existence now, is the only way we can keep politicians in check. Why should either party adhere to ethics when they know that they are the only people who will get elected. Its also a joke to to think that either party believes they represent us. UNtil you and I can afford lobbyists and genorous donations we will never have a voice. Politics make me sick to my stomach because I can't make a difference. Personally, I think voting is a joke(I do vote). These people USE us to get into office and then only react based on what lines their pockets. I'll quit there because I could go on for awhile.
word - and these days, voting for EITHER evil just makes me want to puke.You're right, Spartan117. I vote too, but whenever Im at the polls it feels like I'm making a choice between the lesser of two evils, rather than someone I actually believe in.
I do not mean to be a prick, but whose fault is that? There are other options. Reading one of my looney right wing magazines today, I ran across a story about fatalism. Someone is given a puzzle they can't solve, even goes to the point of trying to find the solution on the web but can't, and gives it up as impossible. They lend it to someone who quite simply has a different attitude and within days the puzzle is solved.You're right, Spartan117. I vote too, but whenever Im at the polls it feels like I'm making a choice between the lesser of two evils, rather than someone I actually believe in.
You're not being a prick CDB - I agree with what you said there. The reality of it is though, either a Democrat or a Republican is going to win a major election. Voicing your opinion by voting for a more obscure party often just serves the purpose of taking votes 'away' from one of the major parties, allowing the party you didnt want in there in the first place to win the election.I do not mean to be a prick, but whose fault is that? There are other options. Reading one of my looney right wing magazines today, I ran across a story about fatalism. Someone is given a puzzle they can't solve, even goes to the point of trying to find the solution on the web but can't, and gives it up as impossible. They lend it to someone who quite simply has a different attitude and within days the puzzle is solved.
As long as individual voters are fatalistic and vote for what they think is the slow road to hell rather than voting for what they believe in this country is going to go to ****. There are other choices and that they don't get elected is quite frankly the fault of the people who don't elect them. Vote for what you believe in or don't vote at all. You do no one, including yourself, any favors by voting for what you think is the lesser of two evils.
.
Right, but one of those 'two evils' IS going to win, regardless of where I cast my vote. Even when there is a strong 3rd party candidate, he basically just serves to take votes away from one of the two major parties. They've got a monopoly on power although voting them out could change things, its going to be a long time before it ever happens.I'm no fan of democracy in general, I think it's doomed to failure. However, that could easily be turned around by the people. Here in America we are given an actual voice in creating our government. There's nothing forcing you to vote for the candidate who got the most air time. There's nothing forcing you to vote for the lesser of two evils. Doing so is like blindly believing any other type of advertisement, and I don't think people buy everything they see a commercial for. Most Americans have taken a fatalistic view of voting, and devalued the act of voting or have simply stopped doing so. That is their own fault
That's fatalism, and you're guaranteed to lose if you follow that ideology. You're voting for what you don't want. If you cast a vote for the Green party or the Libertarians or any other third party, they might not win and probably won't win. If you cast a vote for the Republicans or the Democrats the third parties will definitely not win.The reality of it is though, either a Democrat or a Republican is going to win a major election. Voicing your opinion by voting for a more obscure party often just serves the purpose of taking votes 'away' from one of the major parties, allowing the party you didnt want in there in the first place to win the election.
It doesn't change because of that attitude though. You have to understand you are not gaining anything by voting for what you don't believe in. Voting for the scenic route to hell over the interstate route is still a vote for hell. Voting for what you consider the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. It gives you nothing, advances you toward no goal, does not improve your life, and gives you no satisfaction in terms of conscience.It's either the Democrats or the Republicans who win major elections. That's the problem. And you're right the power to change that is in the people, but it doesnt happen. So by voting for another, more obscure party, my vote basically does jack ****.
I would say it's the people have decided they will only pay attention to those who have a lot of cash and media influence, and that's a different ball game. In the end the alternatives are easily researched and all you need to do to vote for one of them is mark their box on a ballot, pull their lever, etc.Saying the people have the power to elect anyone they want and all that is true, but neglects the enourmous amount of cash and media influence someone needs to have even half a chance at running in a major political election.
They why bother voting for either? Your vote makes more of a difference when cast for a third party. The sheer amount of resources available for the two majors shows just how much they really don't need individual votes here and there.Right, but one of those 'two evils' IS going to win, regardless of where I cast my vote.
As long as people keep thinking in this fatalistic way, it will never change. More to the point, say you were a woman and had three choices. One, you could be raped. Two, you could be date raped, basically a rape after a nice dinner. Three, you could date a good guy who you'd like to marry. The end result that you will be subjected to will be decided by an aggregate vote. What kind of attitude would you have to have to vote yourself option one or two no matter how likely it was for the aggregate vote to end up with those options? That's what you're dealing with in every election, and somehow the Republicans and Democrats have convinced you and a lot of others that since the outcome will be one or two, you may as well just vote yourself the most pleasant form of rape anyway.Even when there is a strong 3rd party candidate, he basically just serves to take votes away from one of the two major parties. They've got a monopoly on power although voting them out could change things, its going to be a long time before it ever happens.
BV
I agree with you on all the points you made, but more people have to think that way for it to make a difference. Take, for instance, the current political situation. I think its imperative the the Republicans be removed from power this time around, but voting for a 3rd party, like the libertarian party, will inevitably take more votes away from the Democrats than it will from the Reps. So by staying true to what I believe in and voting for a 3rd party, Im actually helping the party I really dont want to be in power to maintain their position. Only because the majority believes as you describe it, of course, but what are you going to do? I suppose by caving and voting for 'the lesser of the two evils' we'll end up in the same destination (hell), and I'll be partially responsible. By voting for what's right and not paying into the dem/rep monopoly, we'll still probably all end up in hell, but it wont be a result of any decision Ive made through my voting.Personally I'd vote for option three all the time no matter what the herd was likely to do. I don't know how I could maintain my self respect otherwise.
I agree. But we're never going to hit the breaking point if people like you, who by your posts I judge to be quite a bit more intelligent than average and not so easily led, allow themselves te be led. The aggregate vote that will eventually get a third party in will be made up of individual votes cast by people like you and me. The sooner you add your vote, the sooner the turn around will come. The longer you avoid that and submit to the fatalistic viewpoint, the worse things will get and the longer the bad situation will last. Like I said, when you go into that voting booth it can't be about what everyone else is doing or will probably do, it's about what you do.I agree with you on all the points you made, but more people have to think that way for it to make a difference.
They will maintain that position regardless, because the Democratic position will likely be the same or worse just in different ways. The two major parties are different aspects of the same ideology, there will be no major change as long as either is in power. The truly wasted vote is one you don't believe in, one cast against your conscience. Following your viewpoint is in fact what the majors want, because it leads to a cycle of never ending votes like yours. Say the midterm and 2008 elections are decided by one vote, and it's yours. All you've done is put Republicans in a position where they have to bargain a little with the Democrats to get what they want. You're not seriously injuring their agenda one bit. Same for the other way around.Take, for instance, the current political situation. I think its imperative the the Republicans be removed from power this time around, but voting for a 3rd party, like the libertarian party, will inevitably take more votes away from the Democrats than it will from the Reps. So by staying true to what I believe in and voting for a 3rd party, Im actually helping the party I really dont want to be in power to maintain their position.
Lead by example.Only because the majority believes as you describe it, of course, but what are you going to do?
Keep voting for them though and the destination is on your head. And you will have made no significant effort to change it. That's something I couldn't live with, so I choose not to.By voting for what's right and not paying into the dem/rep monopoly, we'll still probably all end up in hell, but it wont be a result of any decision Ive made through my voting.
The national level is where the REAL money is at. It seems to me by the time a local goes national he/she has so many bed fellows to please that WE are forgotten about.The point, IMO, is that voting can be very demoralizing especially at the national level. I have a theory that voting should be taken more seriously at the local level. Changes are more easily achieved there and a voters chance to get to know the candidate for what they really stand for should be easier. With the Federal governemnt providing a general framework for how locals should operate but still allowing them to make stand alone decisions and specifying laws and procedures shouldn't local politics have a trickle up effect...meaning that if enough people vote a certain way across the nation at the local level then that trend should continue up, but so much emphasis is place on national elections.
Gore them. Admittedly my last couple of posts are ideological. Personally I think people will only be motivated enough to change the status quo when they've all been thoroughly ****ed by it.So the question is what do we do to get people properly motivated and quit blindly following?
Gore them. Admittedly my last couple of posts are ideological. Personally I think people will only be motivated enough to change the status quo when they've all been thoroughly ****ed by it.
My sentiments exactly!! Enough people havent been ****ed by the system bad enough to demand change. The republicans have ****ed up royally over the past 8 years. No doubt, this next wave of elections and the Democrats will be in power. If they keep this steam train of political ineptitude rolling for yet another 8 (which I can only assume they will) then maybe we'll see some real changes happen. I hope so...this is getting ridiculous.Gore them. Admittedly my last couple of posts are ideological. Personally I think people will only be motivated enough to change the status quo when they've all been thoroughly ****ed by it.
Maybe it just me but I don`t see the Dems winning the big seat(Pres.) if Hillary is the canidate. Although maybeNo doubt, this next wave of elections and the Democrats
....Third parties are the answer. ...
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:....By looking at all the parties, none of the "alternative" parties are the answer. They're either too extreme or just nonsensical. .....
I was wondering where you have been:blink::icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Go Nader!! Nader for 2008!
Busy with international clients. The financial and commodities markets are going insane. Everybody wants in. It is insame. But I think the hangover is right around the corner. lolI was wondering where you have been:blink:
I wouldn't be so sure. I know Republican woman who would vote for her just because she's a woman. I've yet to meet a woman who actually thinks rationally, I have the feeling a lot of female Republicans would find some way to justify voting Democrat just to support her if she runs.No, definately not if Hilary Clinton is their candidate.
Ah, that's a good point CDB. Well, we can be sure that after 4 years of Hilary Clinton a 3rd party would have a real shot at winning major elections..I wouldn't be so sure. I know Republican woman who would vote for her just because she's a woman. I've yet to meet a woman who actually thinks rationally, I have the feeling a lot of female Republicans would find some way to justify voting Democrat just to support her if she runs.
After 4 years of Hilary we could probably raise enough support to ammend the constitution and get W back in office.Ah, that's a good point CDB. Well, we can be sure that after 4 years of Hilary Clinton a 3rd party would have a real shot at winning major elections..
If that happens, Im out of here. Seriously.After 4 years of Hilary we could probably raise enough support to ammend the constitution and get W back in office.
Patriot Act 3?After 4 years of Hilary we could probably raise enough support to ammend the constitution and get W back in office
Only if W wears a cape and mask.Patriot Act 3?
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