The Economic @ss rape of Jersey Continues...
- 04-26-2006, 03:01 PM
The Economic @ss rape of Jersey Continues...
If there ever was a political honeymoon for Gov. Jon Corzine, it appears to be over.
In his first four months in office, the Democrat has proposed an increase in the sales tax and broken a promise to give homeowners dramatic relief from the highest property taxes in the nation.
Corzine's approval ratings have sunk, and fellow Democrats in the Legislature are hesitant to back his budget plan.
"He did a great job as senator. You would just figure it would carry over as governor," said disappointed Democrat Neil Harry Lori, a plumber from Montclair who liked Corzine's liberal record in the Senate, especially his 2002 vote against authorizing President Bush to invade Iraq.
Corzine said he is unmoved by such troubles, arguing that tough decisions are needed to right a state with chronic tax and budget problems.
"It is time we face it directly and squarely," the governor said last week. "It won't always be pretty politics."
The 59-year-old former Goldman Sachs chief executive who poured tens of millions of dollars of his investment banking fortune into his political career was elected last fall over Republican Doug Forrester.
Among other things, he promised a big increase in the property tax rebates that New Jersey homeowners receive each year. Property owners in New Jersey pay about $6,000 a year on average.
But after inheriting a $4.5 billion budget deficit, Corzine called for $1.9 billion in tax increases - including an increase in the sales tax from 6 percent to 7 percent - and announced that the property tax relief he promised would cost too much at $550 million. He offered $100 million instead.
Corzine has met criticism on other fronts. His promise to restore ethics to state government was called into question when he put up $5,000 to bail a lobbyist and former campaign aide out of jail after she was accused of harassing a state lawmaker.
A Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday found Corzine's job approval ratings plummeted in April to 35 percent from 43 percent last month.
"Nothing kills a political honeymoon faster than the word 'taxes,"' said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the university's polling institute.
Ingrid Reed of the Eagleton Institute of Politics at Rutgers University said voters are so cynical in corruption-riddled New Jersey that they may not have had much confidence in Corzine or his opponent last fall to begin with.
"There was an enormous skepticism among voters that either candidate could deliver," Reed said.
James Florio was New Jersey governor from 1990 to 1994 and lost re-election amid public anger over tax increases he pushed through within months of taking office. Florio predicted Corzine would survive the breaking of his campaign promise.
"Everyone knows there's a real problem," Florio said. "People are starting to understand that you've got to make some choices."
Some Republicans aren't convinced. Edward Jacko, who lives in Hamilton, said he expected nothing different from Corzine.
"It's typical New Jersey politician," Jacko said of the tax increases and broken campaign vow.
Corzine has indicated the state's budget problems were worse than he thought. Jacko doesn't buy it.
"I'm a chemist," Jacko said. "I'm not a politician. I knew the situation was as bad as it was."
John Murphy, a local politician who sought the GOP gubernatorial nomination last year and proposed a rebate plan similar to the one Corzine promised, said Corzine could have pulled it off if he had been willing to make the painful decisions needed to cut spending.
"I don't think he's going to get a pass," Murphy said. "I think people are just sick and tired of it."
© 2006 Associated Press.
- why can't they cut state spending???
- what's up with the notion that all state jobs are sacrosanct???
- 04-27-2006, 01:46 PM
Just keep electing Democrats New Jersey! They led you to the highest property taxes in the nation, just keep electing them, they can set new records in raising property taxes!
04-27-2006, 01:52 PM
I don't know how you can say that the election of democratic govs is the catalyst that kicks up the property taxes...I personally think it has more to do with having the highest standard of living and the most population dense area in the country...but thats just a thought...Originally Posted by krenalor
04-27-2006, 03:02 PM
The catalyst that kicks up taxes is government spending, nothing else. While Democrats do hold the title there, it's by a bare minimum because Republicans as a general rule only oppose increased spending when it's a Democrat that proposes the increase. When a Republican proposes a spending increase to Republicans, they usually find a way to justify it. Usually the best thing you can hope for in our current system is a Democrat in the executive and a Republican controled legislative. That might slow growth of spending a bit in the short term.Originally Posted by PumpingIron
04-28-2006, 08:18 AM
NJ is a serious corruption problem on the local level. That's why there's all the property taxes. Construction jobs cost more in NJ than any other state. Why? Because ALL construction contractors in NJ are owned and operated by the mob.
Additionally, there are very very few regional schools in NJ. For a state so densely populated, it would be exceedingly simple to have regional schools; buses wouldn't have to travel far at all. Regional schools save money because they is a ton of waste in administrative overhead for each individual school. When each town has their own highschool, their own Middleschool, and multiple elementary schools, you have a metric crapton of administrative overhead. Principles, vice principle, super intendents, and all the assistants that go along with them cost millions per year for each town.
NJ has a repuation for good schools, and because school rating is so closely linked to property value, people are hesitant to cut school spending.
So you get towns like New Providence. I've talked about that town before. They have a VERY highly rated school; typically in the top 10 in the nation each year. Been number 1 quite a few times. New Providence has the highest property tax rate in the entire country. This is based on tax per property value as well as tax per square foot of land. In New Providence the property taxes on an 800 square foot house with less than 0.1 acres of land is over $12000 per year.
Oh btw, New Providence has the lowest paid police force in the state.
Anyway, when it comes down to it, the first thing that needs to be done is they have to bring in an independent investiagtion team to root out the corruption in state government, and then down to the local level. The amount that's going on is incredible. Very few lawmakers would be left standing in the state if all the guilty were found. Then and only then will it be possible to get the budget back to something reasonable.
04-28-2006, 09:07 AM
in my humble opinion.. NJ is only patting its own back about its school's and graduation % but i stand to say that these kids that are graduating are just being pushed through to help the bottom line.. they are truly not ready for college. It is comming to a point where NJ will find a need to hold a full one year in a prep school before most colleges will accept them. It is starting now.... in some areas
04-28-2006, 11:30 AM
I think that comment a little bit off base. Can you give me any proof that kids are being pushed through to help the bottom line. With the presidents "no kid left behind" act I think this is kind of impossible.Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
04-28-2006, 11:48 AM
i have proof.. the students at my college i work at who cant even write, read, and do 5th grade math. And it is just not my school... the meetings we have with other profs. and staff from around NJ notice this problem as well.
04-28-2006, 11:52 AM
okay, well I think this can be said for all states. proof isnt in the fact that some students at the school you work for have a 5th grade reading level. Those types of things are your colleges fault for not having a very good application process. Also, where is the school located and what percentage of the student body are from NJ as opposed to other states.
Just taking a sample of one school isn't a good indicator. I don't wanna be an ass, but I'm jsut sayin...
04-28-2006, 12:18 PM
I would argue this is a problem that is most definitely not restricted by state. That problem in particular is very frequently related to athletic prowess sadly enough. It's a common occurance for those who are athletically gifted but either not very smart, or simply lazy, to have their work done for them by others or to be given a free pass in most or all of their classes.Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
04-28-2006, 01:31 PM
its nation wide problem and i am not talking about only one school. i am talking about roughly 9 college/universities in NJ that i work with day to day. The acceptance standards are low, 1000 on SAT's should be too low for any acceptance into anything but a prep school.. but that is our minimum. The new scoring system is a bit different but most school's do not even use the outcome of the new SAT test because we do not know how or what to do with it.
I still look to my most favorite blunders of a Sr. honors student in US law class
"Ammanceapation of the proclimation"
even a more simple question on one occasion.
How many states make up our union?
Answer 48? no. wait. 52, yeah 52.
The location of the college is question are in Northern NJ, Mid-NJ, South NJ and west. Schools i will name because i do not work there but deal with are. Drew, Monmouth, Rowan, Seton Hall.
It is also not right to say that some areas of NJ are suppose to be that way due to how poor or how rich the section is. ( Not saying you did) If you have a public education you should have the same education in no matter what school you go to, be it Montville or Patterson. They should offer the same abilities to grow a mind to its fullest, or as much as that mind wants to learn.
BUT! at the same time i also understand that this world only needs about 12,000 educated people to make this nation run as well as it needs to. The rest we need to bus our tables in this new service economy. You will not find many of these people from public school's, or public colleges, or with out higher education beyond college
04-28-2006, 01:41 PM
I most definately agree that no matter what your families financial situation is, you are entitled to the same education, but unfortunately that just isn't the way it goes in any capitalist society. Sucks...
But the point I was getting at earlier is that you can't make a generalization about NJ using only NJ schools as the evidence to support that generalization. I'm sure most states have the same problems within "State" schools.
Those errors from the Law class are pretty classic though. Glad I went to a private Liberal Arts school.
04-28-2006, 01:55 PM
we do not differ on anything here as it seems.. except the aspect of what you can or can not do with our form of economic structure. Public schools nor should not have to battle among themselves to produce better seeds.. Our economic system only plays a part in private buisness mostly. but anyway.
The problem is in every other state, but some actually put their foot down and do not let these kids graduate. NJ just says.. errrr ok, go walk. Thinking in the long run that the student will be better with a HS degree. The reality is they will not be. The highschool and most college education has become so worthless that we have grads with BS's working at bobs discount stores ( but its ok cause they are managers ;-) the non grads are loading the truck.. actually Jose is loading the truck and Kimar and Frank are un-loading the truck.
NJ is Enroning its self. Look at our numbers!! look look! but those numbers will never add up to the education of the students
04-28-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by MaynardMeekEver read the Anguished English series? I think the author is Richard Lederer, in the second book which I believe was titled More Anguished English he started it off with a history of the world told with such student blunders. It's unbelievably hilarious. Wild Bill Hiccup and Wyatt Burp, Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world with a 100 foot clipper, **** like that. Had me rolling.Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
Figured I'd contribute that to this thread rather than one of my demented screeds on government controlled education.
04-28-2006, 02:01 PM
i have seen that! it is funny when you read it from a book but man.. when you read it from an actual student who asks you to help proof read ... you just want to cry
04-28-2006, 02:08 PM
Got the experience. I used to help profs grade papers from lower level classes when I was thinking of being a teacher. I got papers with no punctuation, just italics and bold face all over the place. Reading five pages of stream of consciousness ruminations on Joyce's works is oddly appropriate, but unbelievably hard too.Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
04-28-2006, 02:13 PM
my new favorite thing is now kids are using BIG CAPS rather than ! to express their emotion. its how chat slang is infecting education
04-28-2006, 03:51 PM
04-28-2006, 04:08 PM
We are all born into this world and state ( I was born in Woodbury, NJ ) completely ignorant. Your parents and teachers are your closest guides, but ultimately we are responsible for our own education. You don't have to be uneducated. The one skill you need to learn is the ability to read, with writing a close second. Parents and educators should introduce these skills but beyond that, what can you do?
I also believe that style and culture originate from the youth culture. Clothing and spoken language fads develop at the street level. When advertizers go after a market, they start with 12 year old girls. If you want to sell alot of "widgets", market the widget toward the teen culture. When you make a hook at the teen level, you will have a customer for life. So, it will just be a matter of time before the "cap key" replaces the exclamation point.
Ofcourse, it is alot easier to get the uneducated masses to follow an emotional lead. This makes the uneducated easier to coerse and manipulate toward a given agenda. Maybe the politicians are concerned that an educated voter may not vote for the right canidate.
04-29-2006, 01:02 PM
anabolicrhino, its a good point. Read up on Inverse Totalitarianism. Basically the idea that Government wants people to remain uneducated and non-voting. By having the masses ignorant and unwashed, they can't think for themselves and depend on media (note: business) for their news and ideas.
Its scary how bad American society is. Where people give more of a **** about whats on TV than whats going on in Washington DC.
04-29-2006, 03:56 PM
The state of the education system is not accidental, it is a deliberate action. There's a strong and silent movement in the US towards socialism. Eventually in decades to come the US, Canada, and Mexico will be one union similar to how the EU is.
The "no child left behind" program is pretty much the exact same program the UN wanted to adopt. I can't remember the name, but I'm positive they are nearly identical.
04-30-2006, 09:56 AM
Where in NJ are you guys located. Edison here. There was not even a republican candidate running for mayor here in the last election. It is sad to see taxes going up and up and seeing nothing happening as a result. I think it is really about time that people demand to know what is being done wit their money, I mean come on, my property taxes have gone up almost 25% in the past 4 years and I do not see anything happening except for some pompus rich idiot that the dems elected telling me he needs more of my money. Corzine has billions of dollars, let him put up the 2 billion that he says the state needs.
Last edited by phil216; 04-30-2006 at 09:57 AM. Reason: typo
04-30-2006, 05:16 PM
Interesting but not really. They don't want Socialism in the Marxist sense. They want socialism in the sense that they want the people to be collective zombies who will do whatever the President tells them to do. Bush has done it many times. Earlier this year, he considered himself the "educator in chief." Now, he's the "decider."Originally Posted by Ibanez
The Government wants to keep people relatively in the dark for many reasons.
One reason is that if they told all their secrets, the public would constantly panic about fringe groups wanting to blow up the US.
Another reason is to control the populace by selective news. By focusing on Natalee Holloway and ignoring the secret European CIA prisons, the government (any government, this isn't US exclusive) can make sure they get off. If you read up on all these media conglomerate owners, they have all have deep political ties. There's no objectivity here.
Another reason is to pass legislation to benefit special interest groups. Then when we see all kinds of things changing, we're told that we can't do **** about it except take it. So we start believing it...and continuing to watch TV. The Government can heavily sponsor certain companies to be close to or completely sole providers of certain goods, which can be a socialist notion. Why do you think AT&T is getting away with that illegal merger?
05-01-2006, 08:57 AM
05-03-2006, 11:06 PM
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