Now Bush Lies Proven, Is Iraq War a Farce?

[mindgames]

With absolute proof (which we all knew anyway for years) that Bush and Blair were going to invade Iraq regardless of any pressing reason - when they knew for a fact there were no WMD's - does this change the pro -Bush camps opinion on Bush or the War?

How do they feel knowing lies are now there for all to see after years of defending the lie?


(In case you have left earth lately, here are two links to the info)

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605153.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605157.htm

[MaynardMeek]

no.. because though WMD's were one of the reasons why.. there are more valid reasons to have gone to war inside iraq.

Also.. ABC has a very good history of making stories up and just ejaculating them to the public. Ala Dan Rather...

Do i think this is true.. sure i do... and i think a lot worse has been thought than this... but i also take into account that if something is "leaked" it is meant to be "leaked" by design.

also as much as i think it is true.. the need to remove saddam to allow all of our.. even your country..to remain in a comfortable global community..by over throwing dictators creates a more democratic world.. a world which in theory is by the people... we don't need them to vote for the leaders that best act like our leaders... the whole magic trick in this is the choice. When people get to choose... in free open elections, hold free open media, have 9 types of string cheese, or in this case Hummus Tahini Dip, these people do not run over to the other nation of similar government structure.. and blow them up.

Free elected governments are the safest form of government that will support our needs as citizens of this world. And though our democratic leaders are often dirty... it is because we wanted to go take the trash out...this time.. the middle east......

Who knows mind games... your nation might be next... some funky terrorist group just might kidnap paul hogan.. and you all will be begging for coalition forces to free him.. ;-)

[aj1980]

For some reason, I keep getting this feeling. Tell me if I am wrong, but wasn't your country one of the first ones to join the coalition. As far as ABC is concerned, Maynard is absolutely correct. Sorry for the smack down. It would be nice if you did a little research on your own before blindly repeating ignorance that is broadcast on network "news".

[MaynardMeek]

damn. . i never get use to hearing... Maynard is correct. lol but in fairness of mindgames.. he did post the correct doccuments, but they haven't been picked up by any real political meaty people because the doccuments still underlined the aspect that Iraq needs to be changed... the US and UK both knew that the information being given to saddam about his own weapons could be wrong... The WMD's, though chemical weapons, were found but not nearly in the amount that was first reported by the Brits and Israel. Finding a large stock pile was just the wet dream reason for the war.. but never was it the only one... its just the one everyone freaked out about and now remember.

If these doccuments had any weight.. they would have been used and talked about in much greater detail. These doccuments are nothing more but communication of ideas.. i would be shocked if they have not done things similar in nature to every nation that poses a threat to a western "free" way of life.

[BioHazzard]

I think some people are just so brainf**ked by their blind irrational hatred for Bush, due to Bush defeating their lefty poster boys, that they would rather see Saddam continues his mass butchery, rape, torture and murder of innocent men, women and children. I think that kind of attitude is rather despicable.

[mindgames]

I think some people are just so brainf**ked by their blind irrational hatred for Bush, due to Bush defeating their lefty poster boys, that they would rather see Saddam continues his mass butchery, rape, torture and murder of innocent men, women and children. I think that kind of attitude is rather despicable.

You miss the point.
The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
Why didn't America invade them?
Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.

[BioHazzard]

You miss the point.
The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
Why didn't America invade them?
Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.

You can call yourself Ghandi, but that doesn't make you Ghandi. You can claim to be pro democracy, but you are just making a mockery of democracy when you speak/work against the people of free Iraq, in their attempt to build a democracy.

The fact that you even insinuated that the Iraqi people are better off being butcherd, murdered and raped by Saddam and his thugs, make your claim of pro democracy, a laughing joke and a spit to the face of democracy.


You asked "Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?" For you to ask that, proves that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what is going on over there.

I am sorry but you are NOT qualified to talk about the subject at all. To be able to talk about a subject intelligently, you need to know the facts. Which unfortunately, you have ZERO idea about what is actually happening in Iraq.

You can deny reality for you want. But you cannot change the fact that 80% of the Iraqis are happy that Saddam's butchery is history.


Btw, thanks for your concern for our casualties, eventhough I really doubt that is your concern for us being over there.


P.S. Keep sending me some more neg reps. LOl Nothing is more scarely then little red dots people sent over the internet. LOL

[BioHazzard]

You miss the point.
The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
Why didn't America invade them?
Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers....

What have you done about those situations? Why don't you go to hassle them? What progress have you made in that areas?

Don't you think you and your chorts should be spending your energy in fighting for democracy and human rights in those cases?

Why are you obssessed with this despical attempt in hindering the Iraqi people when they are trying to rebuild their country and their lives, after we have liberated them from tyranny?

What do you hope to accomplish? You can't turn back the clock. Saddam is never going to torture, murder and rape again, no matter how much you yearn for those days.

The Iraqi people are not going to be thrown back into Saddam's tyranny ever again. So, why are you wasting your breathe?

The only explaination for you engaging in this despical attempt to obstruct the Iraqi people's attempt at freedom from tyranny and brutality, is your pathological irrational hatred for Bush. Well, go ahead and drive yourself insane in your silly hatred. lol You are not changing a thing. GW Bush is going down history as one of the greatest leaders of western civilization.

[mindgames]

Greatest President. LMAO - 33% approval rating. You do the math.
I'm about to have tea so I'll address your post later

BUT I SWEAR I DID NOT NEG YOU

[spitboy2000]

Bush rules!

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

You miss the point.
The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
Why didn't America invade them?
Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.

to post an article as a factual article.....from ABC that states it was based on something found in the freakin new york times!!! oh my....

but, i can see your point. its odd that out of all the countries the U.S chose to help (or whatever u like to call it) Iraq. i agree with you that there are some countries that we should have helped first. but, none of us know what really happened and for what.

its hard to sit back and really say, well, Iraq's problems really werent that bad. they were. honestly, HONESTLY do u really think that Iraq isnt better now than it was before we got there??? if you answer that you DONT believe that they are happier and that those lives were a total waste, then i dont know hwat to say to you.

[DAdams91982]

to post an article as a factual article.....from ABC that states it was based on something found in the freakin new york times!!! oh my....

but, i can see your point. its odd that out of all the countries the U.S chose to help (or whatever u like to call it) Iraq. i agree with you that there are some countries that we should have helped first. but, none of us know what really happened and for what.

its hard to sit back and really say, well, Iraq's problems really werent that bad. they were. honestly, HONESTLY do u really think that Iraq isnt better now than it was before we got there??? if you answer that you DONT believe that they are happier and that those lives were a total waste, then i dont know hwat to say to you.

Well from someone who has asked Iraqi people strait up this question.. I have always gotten resounding "YES." I have been told stories of the common iraqi family not allowed to own A/C or a refridgerator.. and now they can.

Adams

[mindgames]

One at a time:

BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


OK - gloves back off..............lol

There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


To Mrs. Gimpy!

No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


To Spitboy.

Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!

[DAdams91982]

One at a time:

BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


OK - gloves back off..............lol

There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


To Mrs. Gimpy!

No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


To Spitboy.

Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!

I dont want to really get into this debate, cause it always ends in me getting pretty irrate.

But just a question.. why when you speak of the war effort, do you just keep on say YOU YOU YOU, in reference to USA's military? I have fought side by side with Australian military forces.

Adams

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

To Mrs. Gimpy!

No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


!

i am "almost" speechless...... haha...ALMOST!

i do watch the news thankyou. i also listen to it and read it, but most importantly i dont base my views off **** that "dan rather" like people say or write. i like to think that i listen to everyones news....bias and not , which i dont think you do. ANYONE can find news, a statistic, a fact, SOMETHING to prove a view that they hold dear. i feel that you are one of those. you only want to listen to the news about how much worse Iraq is now Because you want Iraq to be horrible so therefore you close your eyes and ears to everything that proves otherwise. honestly, i was and am still partly against the war, but even i can not deny the good the U.S has done.

i went out of the usual gimpy way (the lazy bum way) and actually tried to look for some "eye opening" news for you...although i think it will be of no use.:

, school attendance in Iraq increased by 60 percent shortly after the war to more than 95 percent during the recent national exam week.--- UNICEF

, more than 2,500 schools have been renovated with the goal of 4,000 being completed by the end of the year, but 10,000 more need repair.--- UNICEF

safe drinking water was not widespread in Iraq before the U.S. led coalition invaded Iraq but that was partly because of water treatment systems that were in disrepair or had been looted.--- U.S. Agency for International Development,

Work is underway to restore healthy water and sewage treatment to more than 14-million Iraqis.-- USAID




and yes, i have heard of the negatives too....but as michael savage says


watch the trends, not the headlines

[aj1980]

One at a time:

BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


OK - gloves back off..............lol

There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


To Mrs. Gimpy!

No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


To Spitboy.

Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!

WHAT?? I feel like I got cheated. No comment for me?

[aj1980]

I dont want to really get into this debate, cause it always ends in me getting pretty irrate.

But just a question.. why when you speak of the war effort, do you just keep on say YOU YOU YOU, in reference to USA's military? I have fought side by side with Australian military forces.

Adams

That's what I'm saying. I guess he didn't want to comment on that though. I too, find it easy to ignore facts and spew rhetoric when I am debating a topic I know nothing about.

[Blownkbgt]

You miss the point.
The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
Why didn't America invade them?
Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.

not trying to get into things ,

but ...China>? are you serious? that would involve Korea. we couldnt do anything against the 2 of those countries if they feel prevoked.

that would be suicide. plus none of red china is claiming jihad against the west

[brogers]

Don't even bother replying to this guy's threads, he just spews Anti-American hate. He's a jealous whiner, and no amount of evidence or the use of reason will sway him from his sickening views.

[BioHazzard]

BUT I SWEAR I DID NOT NEG YOU

Ok. I believe you. That's good enough.
I don't rep people, whether it is positive or negative. It is so childish. If I have something worth saying, I would say it in the open.