Now Bush Lies Proven, Is Iraq War a Farce?

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Now Bush Lies Proven, Is Iraq War a Farce?


    With absolute proof (which we all knew anyway for years) that Bush and Blair were going to invade Iraq regardless of any pressing reason - when they knew for a fact there were no WMD's - does this change the pro -Bush camps opinion on Bush or the War?

    How do they feel knowing lies are now there for all to see after years of defending the lie?


    (In case you have left earth lately, here are two links to the info)

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605153.htm

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605157.htm

  2. Senior Member
    MaynardMeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    679
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    64.07%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    no.. because though WMD's were one of the reasons why.. there are more valid reasons to have gone to war inside iraq.

    Also.. ABC has a very good history of making stories up and just ejaculating them to the public. Ala Dan Rather...

    Do i think this is true.. sure i do... and i think a lot worse has been thought than this... but i also take into account that if something is "leaked" it is meant to be "leaked" by design.

    also as much as i think it is true.. the need to remove saddam to allow all of our.. even your country..to remain in a comfortable global community..by over throwing dictators creates a more democratic world.. a world which in theory is by the people... we don't need them to vote for the leaders that best act like our leaders... the whole magic trick in this is the choice. When people get to choose... in free open elections, hold free open media, have 9 types of string cheese, or in this case Hummus Tahini Dip, these people do not run over to the other nation of similar government structure.. and blow them up.

    Free elected governments are the safest form of government that will support our needs as citizens of this world. And though our democratic leaders are often dirty... it is because we wanted to go take the trash out...this time.. the middle east......

    Who knows mind games... your nation might be next... some funky terrorist group just might kidnap paul hogan.. and you all will be begging for coalition forces to free him.. ;-)
  3. New Member
    aj1980's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    108
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    8.33%

    For some reason, I keep getting this feeling. Tell me if I am wrong, but wasn't your country one of the first ones to join the coalition. As far as ABC is concerned, Maynard is absolutely correct. Sorry for the smack down. It would be nice if you did a little research on your own before blindly repeating ignorance that is broadcast on network "news".
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    MaynardMeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    679
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    64.07%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    damn. . i never get use to hearing... Maynard is correct. lol but in fairness of mindgames.. he did post the correct doccuments, but they haven't been picked up by any real political meaty people because the doccuments still underlined the aspect that Iraq needs to be changed... the US and UK both knew that the information being given to saddam about his own weapons could be wrong... The WMD's, though chemical weapons, were found but not nearly in the amount that was first reported by the Brits and Israel. Finding a large stock pile was just the wet dream reason for the war.. but never was it the only one... its just the one everyone freaked out about and now remember.

    If these doccuments had any weight.. they would have been used and talked about in much greater detail. These doccuments are nothing more but communication of ideas.. i would be shocked if they have not done things similar in nature to every nation that poses a threat to a western "free" way of life.
  5. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    I think some people are just so brainf**ked by their blind irrational hatred for Bush, due to Bush defeating their lefty poster boys, that they would rather see Saddam continues his mass butchery, rape, torture and murder of innocent men, women and children. I think that kind of attitude is rather despicable.
  6. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    I think some people are just so brainf**ked by their blind irrational hatred for Bush, due to Bush defeating their lefty poster boys, that they would rather see Saddam continues his mass butchery, rape, torture and murder of innocent men, women and children. I think that kind of attitude is rather despicable.

    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    Why didn't America invade them?
    Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
    China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

    Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


    Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.
  7. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    Why didn't America invade them?
    Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
    China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

    Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


    Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.
    You can call yourself Ghandi, but that doesn't make you Ghandi. You can claim to be pro democracy, but you are just making a mockery of democracy when you speak/work against the people of free Iraq, in their attempt to build a democracy.

    The fact that you even insinuated that the Iraqi people are better off being butcherd, murdered and raped by Saddam and his thugs, make your claim of pro democracy, a laughing joke and a spit to the face of democracy.


    You asked "Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?" For you to ask that, proves that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what is going on over there.

    I am sorry but you are NOT qualified to talk about the subject at all. To be able to talk about a subject intelligently, you need to know the facts. Which unfortunately, you have ZERO idea about what is actually happening in Iraq.

    You can deny reality for you want. But you cannot change the fact that 80% of the Iraqis are happy that Saddam's butchery is history.


    Btw, thanks for your concern for our casualties, eventhough I really doubt that is your concern for us being over there.


    P.S. Keep sending me some more neg reps. LOl Nothing is more scarely then little red dots people sent over the internet. LOL
  8. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    Why didn't America invade them?
    Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
    China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers....
    What have you done about those situations? Why don't you go to hassle them? What progress have you made in that areas?

    Don't you think you and your chorts should be spending your energy in fighting for democracy and human rights in those cases?

    Why are you obssessed with this despical attempt in hindering the Iraqi people when they are trying to rebuild their country and their lives, after we have liberated them from tyranny?

    What do you hope to accomplish? You can't turn back the clock. Saddam is never going to torture, murder and rape again, no matter how much you yearn for those days.

    The Iraqi people are not going to be thrown back into Saddam's tyranny ever again. So, why are you wasting your breathe?

    The only explaination for you engaging in this despical attempt to obstruct the Iraqi people's attempt at freedom from tyranny and brutality, is your pathological irrational hatred for Bush. Well, go ahead and drive yourself insane in your silly hatred. lol You are not changing a thing. GW Bush is going down history as one of the greatest leaders of western civilization.
  9. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Greatest President. LMAO - 33% approval rating. You do the math.
    I'm about to have tea so I'll address your post later

    BUT I SWEAR I DID NOT NEG YOU
  10. Board Supporter
    spitboy2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    38
    Posts
    161
    Rep Power
    209
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    79.55%

    Bush rules!
  11. Senior Member
    Mrs. Gimpy!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,040
    Rep Power
    633
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    67.46%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    Why didn't America invade them?
    Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
    China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

    Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


    Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.
    to post an article as a factual article.....from ABC that states it was based on something found in the freakin new york times!!! oh my....

    but, i can see your point. its odd that out of all the countries the U.S chose to help (or whatever u like to call it) Iraq. i agree with you that there are some countries that we should have helped first. but, none of us know what really happened and for what.

    its hard to sit back and really say, well, Iraq's problems really werent that bad. they were. honestly, HONESTLY do u really think that Iraq isnt better now than it was before we got there??? if you answer that you DONT believe that they are happier and that those lives were a total waste, then i dont know hwat to say to you.
  12. Board Sponsor
    DAdams91982's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,483
    Rep Power
    1057411
    Level
    64
    Lv. Percent
    58.03%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!
    to post an article as a factual article.....from ABC that states it was based on something found in the freakin new york times!!! oh my....

    but, i can see your point. its odd that out of all the countries the U.S chose to help (or whatever u like to call it) Iraq. i agree with you that there are some countries that we should have helped first. but, none of us know what really happened and for what.

    its hard to sit back and really say, well, Iraq's problems really werent that bad. they were. honestly, HONESTLY do u really think that Iraq isnt better now than it was before we got there??? if you answer that you DONT believe that they are happier and that those lives were a total waste, then i dont know hwat to say to you.
    Well from someone who has asked Iraqi people strait up this question.. I have always gotten resounding "YES." I have been told stories of the common iraqi family not allowed to own A/C or a refridgerator.. and now they can.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
  13. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    One at a time:

    BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
    But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
    I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


    OK - gloves back off..............lol

    There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
    What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

    In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

    You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

    yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


    To Mrs. Gimpy!

    No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


    To Spitboy.

    Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!
  14. Board Sponsor
    DAdams91982's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,483
    Rep Power
    1057411
    Level
    64
    Lv. Percent
    58.03%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    One at a time:

    BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
    But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
    I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


    OK - gloves back off..............lol

    There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
    What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

    In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

    You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

    yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


    To Mrs. Gimpy!

    No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


    To Spitboy.

    Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!
    I dont want to really get into this debate, cause it always ends in me getting pretty irrate.

    But just a question.. why when you speak of the war effort, do you just keep on say YOU YOU YOU, in reference to USA's military? I have fought side by side with Australian military forces.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
  15. Senior Member
    Mrs. Gimpy!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,040
    Rep Power
    633
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    67.46%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    To Mrs. Gimpy!

    No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


    !
    i am "almost" speechless...... haha...ALMOST!

    i do watch the news thankyou. i also listen to it and read it, but most importantly i dont base my views off **** that "dan rather" like people say or write. i like to think that i listen to everyones news....bias and not , which i dont think you do. ANYONE can find news, a statistic, a fact, SOMETHING to prove a view that they hold dear. i feel that you are one of those. you only want to listen to the news about how much worse Iraq is now Because you want Iraq to be horrible so therefore you close your eyes and ears to everything that proves otherwise. honestly, i was and am still partly against the war, but even i can not deny the good the U.S has done.

    i went out of the usual gimpy way (the lazy bum way) and actually tried to look for some "eye opening" news for you...although i think it will be of no use.:

    , school attendance in Iraq increased by 60 percent shortly after the war to more than 95 percent during the recent national exam week.--- UNICEF

    , more than 2,500 schools have been renovated with the goal of 4,000 being completed by the end of the year, but 10,000 more need repair.--- UNICEF

    safe drinking water was not widespread in Iraq before the U.S. led coalition invaded Iraq but that was partly because of water treatment systems that were in disrepair or had been looted.--- U.S. Agency for International Development,

    Work is underway to restore healthy water and sewage treatment to more than 14-million Iraqis.-- USAID




    and yes, i have heard of the negatives too....but as michael savage says


    watch the trends, not the headlines
  16. New Member
    aj1980's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    108
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    8.33%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    One at a time:

    BioHazzrd. We would never be friends to state the obvious..lol.
    But I REALLY respect that no matter how passionate debate gets you have not negged me. I swear I have never negged you either -
    I have raging debates about this at BB.Com as those *******s neg just because you have a different viewpoint and no other reason - they PM each other and neg you to the lowest level. It makes debate there pointless as no one is game to say jack **** because they will be obliterated.


    OK - gloves back off..............lol

    There is no 'free Iraq' - there is a nation with thoroughly destroyed infrastructure and tens of thousands of innocent deaths. There is faction fighting faction, beordering on civil war. There will NEVER be domocracy in Iraq. I know you don't believe me, but I am a Democratic believer through and through.
    What you need to realise is that democracy will not work in every case. China, for example, for many reasons including geography, topography and demographics would fail miserably if it was a democracy. Look at Russia if you don't believe me as it has similar probs to China. All attempts at democracy there has led to great inequality and corruption born of necessity to survive.

    In answer to your next point, Iraq IS no better off than during Saddam. Look at the state of the place and the relentless bombings, beheadings and the latest 9 US marine deaths. The place is shot to **** and it doesn't look like getting better in a hurry. You may argue that it is on its way to peace, but that's a hopefull guess at the moment.

    You say my attempt to deprive Iraq of freedom from tyranny as despicable. Look mate, I hate senseless death of innocents especially kids. This was happening under Saddam but also has been perpetrated by 'insurgents' and your troops. It hasn't stopped since you all got there, so don't be pious and claim you have done anything good yet - you've got no nearer to a solution than when you arrived.

    yuo talk of Iraqis 'rebuilding after Saddam...lol..most of the rebuilding involves fixing up what you blew up!


    To Mrs. Gimpy!

    No, I don't think Iraq is better now since Saddam - the deaths and destruction happening NOW PROVE IT. So don't act amazed at my view just watch the news and tell me straight that its all good there now the good ole US of A rolled into town.


    To Spitboy.

    Wow what a post. Is that the best you can do - I hear that type of insight at the football. Go team!!!
    WHAT?? I feel like I got cheated. No comment for me?
  17. New Member
    aj1980's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    108
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    8.33%

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982
    I dont want to really get into this debate, cause it always ends in me getting pretty irrate.

    But just a question.. why when you speak of the war effort, do you just keep on say YOU YOU YOU, in reference to USA's military? I have fought side by side with Australian military forces.

    Adams
    That's what I'm saying. I guess he didn't want to comment on that though. I too, find it easy to ignore facts and spew rhetoric when I am debating a topic I know nothing about.
  18. Board Supporter
    Blownkbgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    146
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    2.68%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    Why didn't America invade them?
    Why does America embrace and trade with massive human rights abusers and invade others?
    China, for example, conducts 77% of world executions often without trial. 100,000 annually are put in 're education' / torture camps, pregnant women are hunted, bashed and injected to abort their fetus, tens of thousands of women are force into arranged marriages, not to mentioon the murders and demolitions in Tibet and Falon Gung followers.

    Makes Saddam seem minor doesn't it? I hate what Saddam did, but was it worth an invasion? 2100 dead US soldiers, 17,000 injured US soldiers, not to mention the innocent Iraqi deaths. Now look at Iraq, is it any better now?


    Also, it is frustratingly tiresome that anyone who is anti war / Bush is called a leftie. What a joke and careless uninformed labelling. Most are actually pro Democracy and consider the War undemocratic.
    not trying to get into things ,

    but ...China>? are you serious? that would involve Korea. we couldnt do anything against the 2 of those countries if they feel prevoked.

    that would be suicide. plus none of red china is claiming jihad against the west
  19. New Member
    brogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    30
    Posts
    272
    Rep Power
    257
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    86.35%

    Don't even bother replying to this guy's threads, he just spews Anti-American hate. He's a jealous whiner, and no amount of evidence or the use of reason will sway him from his sickening views.
  20. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    BUT I SWEAR I DID NOT NEG YOU
    Ok. I believe you. That's good enough.
    I don't rep people, whether it is positive or negative. It is so childish. If I have something worth saying, I would say it in the open.
  21. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Quote Originally Posted by brogers
    Don't even bother replying to this guy's threads, he just spews Anti-American hate. He's a jealous whiner, and no amount of evidence or the use of reason will sway him from his sickening views.
    1. Jealous of what?

    2. Evidence - I posted two sources, care to refute them before accusing me of lacking evidence?

    3. No 'anti-American hate here, just anti stupid wars and leaders that make the world less safe and lie to their constituents.
  22. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Quote Originally Posted by aj1980
    That's what I'm saying. I guess he didn't want to comment on that though. I too, find it easy to ignore facts and spew rhetoric when I am debating a topic I know nothing about.

    Sorry reply took so long.

    what is my rhetoric?

    Nobody has refuted my initial post yet.........
    So the onus is on you all not me.

    On the 'you' matter. I mean the coalition, not just Americans of course. I am very active in Aust to stop the war and get our troops back. I lobby politicians, wrote to our prime minister, wrote to the ICC at the Hague, have had 14 letters published and financially support your "Not In Our Name' anti Iraq war group.
  23. Senior Member
    MaynardMeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    679
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    64.07%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    America is now the most un-american country i know.. more so with this new imagration bill. sheesh.. the GOP should have adopted Harry Reed's 93 bill as their own.. The republican's and democrats are screwing everyone with this deal. They shoot down the ports deal because of the UAE ( though the UAE has given is almost a billion in Katrina Aid), but now MORE people are against this bill and they wont do anything. This is true washington insiders vs. the american's.


    Mindgames has never once said anything bad about america. In fact, most of what he says is very american, but shares views with many american isolationists, which at this point in history may not be the best route to go down.

    Iraq is by no means the most dangerous nation. China is much worse, but Mr. Clinton made them Fav. Nation and we will never confront any nation that is of that status or a nation that controls most of our west coast ports. More so, china is on a huge buying trend in America, they pump billions into us.

    Iraq needed this in order to start a trend that is working. Yes we needed to create a water pipe line to Israel and Saddam would not allow it.. but.. the addition of democracy of any form, as long as it is by the people, will help islamic nations revamp and liberalize their governments. The best way to control a nation for the betterment of the world, is to chop its balls off and liberalize it. We see this with china with their addition of taxes etc, that "punnish" the rich. Even the ellection of Hammas is a very good sign. When people elect extremists, it brings them out into the open and forces them to center.


    As for the posts that share information on bush wanting to go to war no matter what. American's do not accept them, most of washington does not accept them because the source is not good ever since the Dan Rather stupidity. If these doccuments were worth any of their weight in salt, kennedy, kerry, etc would be jumping on it in a heart beat. To be honest, it is the job of any leader of a nation to be ready and have ideas for any aspect of war, peace, etc. If a country has a "wait and see" attitude, they will not exsist very long in this world. On the other hand, if a nation is too proactive, then the world population will rise up against them and take them down. Just as they did with USSR. If the United State's actions are so hated, then why hasn't a band of nations stood up to stop them. That is the check and balance. Again, it happened to USSR, there is nothing stopping it happening to the USA if they so bring themselves to that point. The reality is.. the USA doesn't do what a USSR did. Yes, we invaid nations when needed... Yes we give them a road map to form a government... IE Japan... but.. we leave and let them run their nation how they wish.


    As for Bush being the greatest president. Do not go by the public opinon on any president. Clinton had a high raiting, but, he did almost nothing while he was in office and is known as the "comfortable" president. Greatest president ever is James K Polk. But I will stand to say that Bush is on par with the Gipper. Much like Bush, he was hated by the left. Trashed on via his stance on the war on communism... and today, the left and right are ejaculating at the sound of his name. Bush is a very good president. The best economy the nation has seen, the war on terror ( though it should be called what it is, the war on extreme islam) is going to spell the end of middle eastern isolation in the world market out side of OPEC. The addition and amount of programs and works done for minorities, education. But. I, and many of people with my mind set, know that Bush is by no means a republican. He has had the highest spending. Backing the worst imigration stance in American history by now allowing 11 million people who do not want to be americans, rather they just wish to work in america, to become americans. Yes. Bush is a good president but is the most hated president by the media because has excluded them from government.

    Bush's numbers are low because Clinton had allowed the media to become the "4th" branch of government. While Bush has been in office, he has clipped the wings of the media. Telling them what they need to know, when bush wishes to tell them. That is the power that is allowed, that is how it was set up as, and how it is being run.

    Anyway.. thats all i have to say right now.. i am going to bash my head into a wall
  24. Registered User
    somewhatgifted's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,390
    Rep Power
    2338
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    13.94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Good points.. I see mindgames taking a very respectful way of aproaching this. I find myself sharing your views even tho i live across the globe. One question. are texas oil companies harvesting iraqi oil?
  25. Senior Member
    MaynardMeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    679
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    64.07%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    if they are.. the american people are not seeing any reward from it. But i do know Iraqi's are drilling their own oil. Halliburton is needed in cases where oil is at risk becuase much like those things at the end of your shoe laces.. halliburton is the only company that makes an aspect of oil wells and rigs that no other company can duplicate.
  26. Registered User
    not_big_enuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,102
    Rep Power
    671
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    88.94%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    america... sigh... greatest country in the world but also becoming intolerant to other's views.

    we have a christian president who is making decisions based on his religion. he's openly said he makes decisions based on HIS religion. that's problem number one i have with this all... his views are his and not this countries. this goes along the same lines as democracy. iraq was not a democratic country, and so what? does america now come to the defense of every non-democratic country that has problems?

    the US turned it's back on the UN and other nations and this is my biggest gripe. people look at the US in such a bad light because our foreign policy is ridiculous. if we don't agree, we'll do what we want... oh, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, so that's why we have to stop him... think again George, you just wanted a reason you could present to the US people and everyone else as to why you wanted to go to war.

    the US has lost all credibility in the global community since Bush took over. with the world continuing to globalize, i fear down the road, when the US is perhaps NOT the superpower, too many other countries are going to remember our elitism in so many of these issues and turn their back on us.

    right now, yes, we're a superpower. problem is, we have nowhere near the largest military in the world. advanced sure, but can our technological savvy be counted on when supremely outnumbered?

    also, the fastest growing religion is the Islamic religion. in 25 years, what if it's dominating the world and many of these 3rd world countries gain power? it'd be an interesting scenario if some of these newly democratic, islamic countries shot up the world scale and suddenly banded together against the US.

    the US already has little support in europe, only some in Russia, and holds hands loosely with China. our relationships are fragile, so picking wars and alienating other countries and going out on our own should be avoided at all costs.

    we may all agree that Hussein needed to be out of power, i won't argue that, but sometimes you need to leave things alone or go about them within the proper channels. the worldview of the US has suffered greatly during this nightmare, and I think that may be what costs us the greatest.

    there's 6 billion people on this planet (or whatever) and only a small part of them live in the US, or follow life in the US. there are many different cultures, problems, philosophies, and sometimes it's best to leave a problem alone, even if the solution seems simple, it can become an even bigger headache and linger for much longer and cause much more of a ripple than you could imagine.
  27. Registered User
    somewhatgifted's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,390
    Rep Power
    2338
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    13.94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

  28. Senior Member
    MaynardMeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    679
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    64.07%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    america... sigh... greatest country in the world but also becoming intolerant to other's views.

    Not at all. We become intolerant to those that wish to run rough shot over its people and deny them the ability to take part in the our global market.


    we have a christian president who is making decisions based on his religion. he's openly said he makes decisions based on HIS religion. that's problem number one i have with this all... his views are his and not this countries. this goes along the same lines as democracy. iraq was not a democratic country, and so what? does america now come to the defense of every non-democratic country that has problems?

    Pretty much. Nations that are formed with out the will and open visibility to the process of forming to and of the people does not hold security into today's global economy. Like it or not, we are here, we live in it. The majority of nations partake and some areas of the globe are vital to our buisness. Middle East is such an area, and always has been. Bush makes choices off of faith.. which is something many people would do better if they had. However, Bush also puts his "faith" in his Father.. and.. father.. and his step brother bill clinton... and the rest of the global leaders...

    the US turned it's back on the UN and other nations and this is my biggest gripe. people look at the US in such a bad light because our foreign policy is ridiculous. if we don't agree, we'll do what we want... oh, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, so that's why we have to stop him... think again George, you just wanted a reason you could present to the US people and everyone else as to why you wanted to go to war.

    The UN has failed. Plain and simple. You cannot have a body that does not enforce its abilities and have it actually listened. If the UN continues to make threats to nations and doesn't ever back their words up. They are just are just another form of government that doesn't do anything but talk and spend money. The UN is the second or third form of this global union. Sometimes new things need to be created.

    the US has lost all credibility in the global community since Bush took over. with the world continuing to globalize, i fear down the road, when the US is perhaps NOT the superpower, too many other countries are going to remember our elitism in so many of these issues and turn their back on us.

    Bush has pissed alot of old europe off by digging up proof of what said nations were getting by the oil for food program via saddam. Pofit, buy offs if you will. France is the greatest example. We caught them with their hands in the cookie jar when they were suppose to be on a diet... bad bad bad froggie. The USA will never be out of some form of "super power" status, though as the years progress, that term will really no longer apply. The world will be in too much of a global connection.. some nations will build, some will buy, others protect.. each will have their own job and purpose.

    right now, yes, we're a superpower. problem is, we have nowhere near the largest military in the world. advanced sure, but can our technological savvy be counted on when supremely outnumbered?

    Short answer is yes. Vast numbers do not a military make. And any war america will lose is because it was lost at home.


    also, the fastest growing religion is the Islamic religion. in 25 years, what if it's dominating the world and many of these 3rd world countries gain power? it'd be an interesting scenario if some of these newly democratic, islamic countries shot up the world scale and suddenly banded together against the US.

    But we see the opposite. These nations are joining up with us. Though islam is fast in growth, the open market and global community .. and all that flows with it is growing even faster. Money makes the people happy.. choice makes the people happy... even if it is all an illusion.. it still makes the people happy. As my theory goes, nations will walmarts will never fight with each other.

    the US already has little support in europe, only some in Russia, and holds hands loosely with China. our relationships are fragile, so picking wars and alienating other countries and going out on our own should be avoided at all costs.

    Well i wish someone felt that way to the UAE and the ports deal. Bill Clinton's ports plan was wonderful but people on the left and right who are more worried about numbers and ellections really burnt a big bridge there. Though the UAE already owns some ports in the USA ( which they still do) and though they gave almost a billion dollars in aid after the hurricains... Left america stood behind the wrong side of history again and shot it down. Why would anyone want to be friends with america now.

    As for Europe.. again.. depends on where you go. Yes the countries that lost out on illegal money from Saddam are going to be pissed. But.. They have no say, they need to save face and also have to deal with their own issues of 22% un-employment rate.

    China and the US are strong together. In fact a bit too strong. China owns most of our western ports, they are going through huge buying phase in the US. They are pumping and making billions with the United States.

    The USA should pick wars with care. As any war should be thought out for all its possible outcomes. But the united states has a pretty good rep. when it comes to post war attitude. As said before. USA goes in, USA clears, USA helps form a government, USA leaves. Look at Japan, France, Germany, etc. Though we like to keep a base inside for thanks and maybe a spot to bury our dead.. thats about all we take.

    we may all agree that Hussein needed to be out of power, i won't argue that, but sometimes you need to leave things alone or go about them within the proper channels. the worldview of the US has suffered greatly during this nightmare, and I think that may be what costs us the greatest.

    The proper channels were gone through 16 times. The UN is now the Mall Security of the world STOP!!! or I WILL SAY STOP AGAIN!!!! War is not ever popular past X amount of time. But in the long term ( which is more important than today) a more free middle east, with open trade, a government that is surrounded by free press and that is exposed to the world will make this world and the buisness done in it, a very safe place.

    there's 6 billion people on this planet (or whatever) and only a small part of them live in the US, or follow life in the US. there are many different cultures, problems, philosophies, and sometimes it's best to leave a problem alone, even if the solution seems simple, it can become an even bigger headache and linger for much longer and cause much more of a ripple than you could imagine.

    The USA is the best example of everything you said right there. It is also the worst. The united states has hundreds if not thousands of different socal human beings.. different races, cultures, views.. and we all live pretty damn well together. The reason why we live well is because we keep to ourselves. We don't care how that person is doing when we say "how are ya" as they walk down the road. We understand that her ways are just as valid as his ways and though we may find them silly.. we can still enjoy their food.

    The majority of people that wish to immagrate to the United States ( and the numbers aint dropping so we still must be doing something right.. and i am not counting the guest workers who do not wish to be americans) they wish to be here because things are wrong with their home, but not wrong enough for travel to be cut off like it was in the USSR etc etc. We can't let nations get to the point where they build walls to keep their own people IN. A great majority of middle eastern muslims are seeing that happen today in Iran, they saw it in Iraq, and yes they see it in the suddan etc. No matter what anyone wants to say in regards to how wrong it is to be christian and to lead a nation at the same time.. i will stand up and say.. it is not wrong to change things that need change, to chop down trees that are rotten in hopes a new one will grow.. If you let the soil sour, you can never take anything from that land again... the western and globalized world has that ability to bring good and needed change... and we should
  29. Registered User
    not_big_enuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,102
    Rep Power
    671
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    88.94%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    good reply to my post.

    one point though, say what you want about the UN, and as true as it is that they are a traffic cop, the US still had no right to invade and start a war. none.

    and regardless of if it's "the right thing to do" which i won't argue for or against, when everyone else in the global community disagrees with your decision, you don't do it.

    if you don't think the global reputation of he US is suffering, and that respect for the US is almost non-existent, i can't pursuade you on that. having often travelled abroad and having more friends than i can count from foreign nations, very few foreigners from developed nations respect us.

    one thing i would change from original post is that US is very tolerant of other cultures, etc, within our borders but that is changing to some degree. christian views dominate the faith-based landscape of our society and is really the backdrop of our political views too.

    bah, anyway... i'd love to see a few things happen:

    1. a real United Nations... one with authority that we can rely on... though this has drawbacks and perhaps squeezes on our independence, we need something with this increasing global environment we live in

    2. we need real respectibility globally again...
  30. New Member
    brandozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    41
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    230
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    15.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    You miss the point.
    The point is the war is farcial - there are many more depraved nations than Iraq - Zimbabwe, Nth. Korea, Burma, China etc.
    .
    north korea got nukes
  31. New Member
    DinoTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    49
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    137
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    42.31%

    Who has proven Bush and Blair lied?

    A lie is when someone knows something is false and states it as fact. Bush and Blair were advised by there intelligence communities that Saddam had either WMD's OR were actively looking to re-start there programs. Everyone believed they had WMD's. Not just the USA, Britian or Australia.

    If Bush were to have lied, I would think he would have had WMD's planted there. Why lie and not hide the lie. He wouldnt even have had to plant a nuke in there, he could plant the plans and schematics for nuke reactors.

    Is the Iraqi people better off without saddam. Of course!! Yeah there are car bombings and be-headings on a continous bases. But now there is due process there. In this country we have people shooting 10 people in a fast food resturant. Would we be better off with a dictator? NO. Why? Because under saddam the people didn't have a chance. they had no due process under saddam. Under saddams rule, all he had to do was accuse you of any crime he wanted, tie you up, torture you, rape your wife and children and that was it. No recourse.

    I can see people debating whether going to war was the right thing to do, or debate how the war is being fought. But to say a country is better off with a murderous dictator that kills whole villages and buries them is a bit much. And to say that the president lied about WMD's just to support us going to war, well why then wouldnt he plant info in the country so his poll #'s wouldnt drop?
  32. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    .... I am very active in Aust to stop the war and get our troops back. I lobby politicians, wrote to our prime minister, wrote to the ICC at the Hague, have had 14 letters published and financially support your "Not In Our Name' anti Iraq war group.
    Saddam's eager helper in the DownUnder.
    Well, the only thing you left out is petitioning to have Saddam restored to be the Butcher For Life of Iraq.
  33. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by brandozzz
    north korea got nukes
    They don't. It's a hoax, part of their blackmail scheme.

    If they actually had functioning nuke, they would have tested it, the same way they have been shooting off their half baked missiles, in their attempt to convince the world to cave in to their blackmail.
  34. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by not_big_enuf
    1. a real United Nations... one with authority that we can rely on... though this has drawbacks and perhaps squeezes on our independence, we need something with this increasing global environment we live in

    2. we need real respectibility globally again...
    1. There is no such thing as a real UN. UN is just a tool for the 5 permanent members, USA, UK, France, Russia And China.
    Russia and China vote where their interests lie. It is a silly, naive and romanticized notion that there is this entity called UN that would work for the benefit of humanity. It simply does not exists. Russia and China care more about their international commercial interests and other international politics, than upholding human rights or whatever grandious idealism that they don't even subscribe to. Don't waste time dreaming about the UN doing the right thing. That is a joke.

    2. Respectibility from people who don't give a rat ass about our security and other interests? I say FCUK'em! They can join the orgy to kiss our American ass. THe reason they are whinning is because we no longer care to sacrifice our own safety and security to protect their business interest. In doing so, we no longer give a raging fCuk that the European elite's business interests with Saddam and other tyrants are screwed. Naturally, they are rather indignant about having their dirty profiteering interfered with. So they came up with this whinny complaint about the US acting alone. Well, they can go wash Saddam's underwear in his jail, for all I care.

    During the ColdWar, these bunch of pervert elites were all too eager to suck up to the Soviets and spared no effort to sabotage NATO and the US. We fcuk'em back then, I say we fcuk'em again.
  35. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Quote Originally Posted by BioHazzard
    Saddam's eager helper in the DownUnder.
    Well, the only thing you left out is petitioning to have Saddam restored to be the Butcher For Life of Iraq.

    My anti war stance does not equate to pro-Saddam.

    America and it's allies have made Iraq worse, period.
    Today alone 79 dead and 160 wounded. Way to bring peace and democracy. Great tactic, Mr. Bush.
    Is this what you support?
    Is this what you are belittling me for trying to stop?
  36. Senior Member
    Mrs. Gimpy!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,040
    Rep Power
    633
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    67.46%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    u refuse REFUSE to see any of the good that is being done....

    i give up
  37. Registered User
    EEmain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    882
    Rep Power
    568
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    72.2%

    Because someone doesn`t agree with the war doesn`t make them Anti-democratic or Anti-American.

    I agreed"Let`s kick some ass" now my stance has changed... not that good hasn`t or isn`t being done but I doubt
    "We want to free the Iraqi people" is the dominant reason we are there.
  38. New Member
    jagleaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    67
    Rep Power
    160
    Level
    7
    Lv. Percent
    41.28%

    Quote Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
    Bush's numbers are low because Clinton had allowed the media to become the "4th" branch of government. While Bush has been in office, he has clipped the wings of the media. Telling them what they need to know, when bush wishes to tell them. That is the power that is allowed, that is how it was set up as, and how it is being run.

    Anyway.. thats all i have to say right now.. i am going to bash my head into a wall
    I cannot agree more.
  39. New Member
    mindgames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    162
    Rep Power
    191
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    15%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!
    u refuse REFUSE to see any of the good that is being done....

    i give up

    u refuse REFUSE to see any of the damage that is being done.........

    i give up:
  40. Banned
    BioHazzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    925
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    38.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    My anti war stance does not equate to pro-Saddam.

    America and it's allies have made Iraq worse, period.
    Today alone 79 dead and 160 wounded. Way to bring peace and democracy. Great tactic, Mr. Bush.
    Is this what you support?
    Is this what you are belittling me for trying to stop?
    On the contrary!!

    YOU are the one supporting the side doing the butchering, mass murdering of innocents!!

    YOU are not trying to stop the mass butchering and mass murder!

    YOU are the one trying to make it WORSE but supporting those doing the mass butchering!

    That is what I, we, belittle you for!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Iraq War Debate Review ???
    By anabolicrhino in forum Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2007, 08:02 AM
  2. Iraq War Withdrawl Time Table Set
    By anabolicrhino in forum News and Articles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-26-2007, 02:35 PM
  3. Now that the Merger is Official...
    By Rodja in forum MMA
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 04-04-2007, 12:06 PM
  4. There is now way this guy is serious?!
    By revodrew in forum General Chat
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-15-2006, 05:58 PM
  5. KIA/MIA Iraq War Memorial. We Will Never Forget!
    By windwords7 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-13-2003, 06:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in