Guest Commentary --- Don’t Close Your Blinds

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    Guest Commentary --- Don’t Close Your Blinds


    The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war….

    My wife and I were in the army during the Gulf War and I am honored to serve and defend our Country again today. I thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window.



    I said “Son, stand there and tell me what you see?”



    I see trees and cars and our neighbor’s houses.” He replied.



    “Ok, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush.”



    Our son giggled and said “OK.”



    “Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country” my husband said.



    “OK Dad, I’m pretending.”



    “Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam coming out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son…what do you do?



    “Dad?”



    “What do you do son?”



    “I’d call the police, Dad.”



    “OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?”



    “Dad………but the police are supposed to help!” My son starts to whine.



    “They don’t want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it.”



    “But Dad…he killed her!!” my son exclaims.



    “I know he did… but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you’re pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children.”




    ”Daddy…he kills them?”



    “Yes son, he does. What do you do?”



    “Well, if the police don’t want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him.” Our son says.



    “Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open and help you stop him.”



    “But dad, I NEED help!!! I can’t stop him by myself!!”



    “WHAT DO YOU DO SON? My son starts to cry.



    “OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?



    “What Daddy?”



    “He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then..he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?



    “Daddy…”



    “WHAT DO YOU DO?” Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, “I’d close the blinds, Daddy.”



    “Why?”



    “Because Daddy…..the police are supposed to help people who needs them…and they won’t help… you always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won’t help either…they won’t help me stop him…I’m afraid…I can’t do it by myself Daddy…I can’t look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and…and….do nothing…so….I’m just going to close the blinds…so I can’t see what he’s doing……and I’m going to pretend that it is not happening.”



    With a tear in my eye I look at my nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my questions.



    “Son” I said:



    “Yes, Daddy.”



    “Open the blinds because that man…he’s at your front door….



    “WHAT DO YOU DO?”

    My son looked at me with anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and without hesitation he says: “I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!!! I’M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!



    I couldn’t hold back the tears. I grabbed my son and held him close to my chest and told him…”It’s too late to fight him, he’s too strong and he’s already at YOUR front door son… you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way. You have to do what’s right, even if you have to do it alone, before it’s too late.” . THAT story I just told you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen son, “YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!” BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS…”



    GOD BLESS!!!!



    Steven R. Chandler

    CMSgt 332 ELRS/Vehicle, Management Flight Balad Air Base, Iraq

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    Personal parallels like this have no application to nations though. There's a logical concept called subsumation that has a different applicability in broader situations like war than it does in personal situations, like stopping a wife beating.

    Suppose you do cross the lawn to stop saddam beating his wife. Technically you've trespassed, but the action is subsumed in the larger act of saving her life. If a surgeon cuts someone open to operate on them and saves their life, even though they have done violence to a person's body the act is subsumed in the larger act of saving that person's life.

    Such situations aren't so clear with wars. For example, no one else is being harmed by saving Saddam's wife. However, in a war noncombatants are inevitably killed and it's not so easy morally or ethically to simply say there was a greater good to be achieved. That their death is not intentional can be considered, but we have 30,000 dead Iraqi civilians, most of whom I'm sure would prefer to still be alive, and you don't get those numbers by intervening in a wife beating.

    Morally and ethically a war to remove a dictator, which involves sacrificing thousands upon thousdands of lives not all of which go to that sacrifice willingly, and stopping one man from beating one woman have absolutely nothing in common. Doing what's right when the only life that's on the line is yours and one other person's is completely different from doing what's right when thousands if not millions of lives are on the line. The goal of the intervention on both levels is quite different as well.
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    But bro, this analogy was to a 9 year old. Also how many lives have been saved by removing this dictator? Perhaps thousands of American lives...we will never know what WMD could have been employed if the ***** didn't tuck tail and run.

    Look at the big picture!
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    Quote Originally Posted by refrieddreams
    But bro, this analogy was to a 9 year old. Also how many lives have been saved by removing this dictator? Perhaps thousands of American lives...we will never know what WMD could have been employed if the ***** didn't tuck tail and run.

    Look at the big picture!
    RFD, I respect your opinion but to this day, there has been ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support the initial premises of this war. In CIA advisement this administration was told that there is no tangible evidence to support Sadaam Hussein and his regime took an active part in supporting Al Queda, none. The fact that a strong, extremist contingent of Al Queda is now leading the "insurgency" (which the world is continually told is under control) speaks volumes to the mass resentment for the United States that now permeates that country. WMD's? Not only has there been no evidence to support Iraq was in possession of any chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, they completely lack the ballistic capability to launch an attack. If Sadaam and his regime were such a powerful force, then why didn't they use these "weapons" as they, and their country was being decimated? And American lives saved you say? No, I think it is the complete opposite, think how many American lives have been wasted. I am not even your countrymen and my sympathies still go out to those who needlessly lost their lives, not to mention the thousands who are horribly injured. A man who dies at war is a tragedy and becomes a hero, and in turn we romanticise his death, "he died for his country" we say. A man loses the ability to walk and it is a statistic, a figure. Why? Because it is a tangible reminder of the horrid nature of war, and to recognize it would be to actually come face to face with the utter irresponsibility of this war. I would like to make it known that in no way, shape or form do I even hold the slightest bit of resentment for any man or woman who represents their country, which ever country it may be, in the armed forces. I hold them in the highest esteem, and in this situation even more so because they are fighting needlessly. Yet, to die in a needless war isn't honour, it is injustice.

    To Delta, I also mean no disrespect but to trivialize an entire socio-economic, and socio-political nightmare into an analogy of a man beating his wife, does not make sense to me. As CDB said in that situation, the wife-beater is subdued, the wife is saved, there are no victims. However, what if the wife doesn't want to be saved? What if she doesn't truly need your massive intervention to be saved? In this war, the pursuit of the almighty liberty and freedom are being "achieved" by the intervention of the United States. However, does forced freedom truly constitute freedom? Is it really democracy if it is imposed? The United States, and to the same extent the Western World cannot assume that our help is ALWAYS needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    RFD, I respect your opinion but to this day, there has been ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support the initial premises of this war. In CIA advisement this administration was told that there is no tangible evidence to support Sadaam Hussein and his regime took an active part in supporting Al Queda, none. The fact that a strong, extremist contingent of Al Queda is now leading the "insurgency" (which the world is continually told is under control) speaks volumes to the mass resentment for the United States that now permeates that country. WMD's? Not only has there been no evidence to support Iraq was in possession of any chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, they completely lack the ballistic capability to launch an attack. If Sadaam and his regime were such a powerful force, then why didn't they use these "weapons" as they, and their country was being decimated? And American lives saved you say? No, I think it is the complete opposite, think how many American lives have been wasted. I am not even your countrymen and my sympathies still go out to those who needlessly lost their lives, not to mention the thousands who are horribly injured. A man who dies at war is a tragedy and becomes a hero, and in turn we romanticise his death, "he died for his country" we say. A man loses the ability to walk and it is a statistic, a figure. Why? Because it is a tangible reminder of the horrid nature of war, and to recognize it would be to actually come face to face with the utter irresponsibility of this war. I would like to make it known that in no way, shape or form do I even hold the slightest bit of resentment for any man or woman who represents their country, which ever country it may be, in the armed forces. I hold them in the highest esteem, and in this situation even more so because they are fighting needlessly. Yet, to die in a needless war isn't honour, it is injustice.

    To Delta, I also mean no disrespect but to trivialize an entire socio-economic, and socio-political nightmare into an analogy of a man beating his wife, does not make sense to me. As CDB said in that situation, the wife-beater is subdued, the wife is saved, there are no victims. However, what if the wife doesn't want to be saved? What if she doesn't truly need your massive intervention to be saved? In this war, the pursuit of the almighty liberty and freedom are being "achieved" by the intervention of the United States. However, does forced freedom truly constitute freedom? Is it really democracy if it is imposed? The United States, and to the same extent the Western World cannot assume that our help is ALWAYS needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta314
    The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war….

    My wife and I were in the army during the Gulf War and I am honored to serve and defend our Country again today. I thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window.



    I said “Son, stand there and tell me what you see?”



    I see trees and cars and our neighbor’s houses.” He replied.



    “Ok, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush.”



    Our son giggled and said “OK.”



    “Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country” my husband said.



    “OK Dad, I’m pretending.”



    “Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam coming out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son…what do you do?



    “Dad?”



    “What do you do son?”



    “I’d call the police, Dad.”



    “OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?”



    “Dad………but the police are supposed to help!” My son starts to whine.



    “They don’t want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it.”



    “But Dad…he killed her!!” my son exclaims.



    “I know he did… but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you’re pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children.”




    ”Daddy…he kills them?”



    “Yes son, he does. What do you do?”



    “Well, if the police don’t want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him.” Our son says.



    “Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open and help you stop him.”



    “But dad, I NEED help!!! I can’t stop him by myself!!”



    “WHAT DO YOU DO SON? My son starts to cry.



    “OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?



    “What Daddy?”



    “He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then..he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?



    “Daddy…”



    “WHAT DO YOU DO?” Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, “I’d close the blinds, Daddy.”



    “Why?”



    “Because Daddy…..the police are supposed to help people who needs them…and they won’t help… you always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won’t help either…they won’t help me stop him…I’m afraid…I can’t do it by myself Daddy…I can’t look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and…and….do nothing…so….I’m just going to close the blinds…so I can’t see what he’s doing……and I’m going to pretend that it is not happening.”



    With a tear in my eye I look at my nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my questions.



    “Son” I said:



    “Yes, Daddy.”



    “Open the blinds because that man…he’s at your front door….



    “WHAT DO YOU DO?”

    My son looked at me with anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and without hesitation he says: “I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!!! I’M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!



    I couldn’t hold back the tears. I grabbed my son and held him close to my chest and told him…”It’s too late to fight him, he’s too strong and he’s already at YOUR front door son… you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way. You have to do what’s right, even if you have to do it alone, before it’s too late.” . THAT story I just told you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen son, “YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!” BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS…”



    GOD BLESS!!!!



    Steven R. Chandler

    CMSgt 332 ELRS/Vehicle, Management Flight Balad Air Base, Iraq

    WOW


    I got chills bro.

    Are you Steven Chandler or is that someone else?


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    Along the same lines.


    "When the germans came for the gypsies, I did nothing because I am not a gypsie, when the Germans came for the teachers I did nothing because I am not a teacher, when the Germans came for the jews I did nothing because I am not a Jew, when the Germans came for me there was no one left to help me."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    RFD, I respect your opinion but to this day, there has been ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support the initial premises of this war. In CIA advisement this administration was told that there is no tangible evidence to support Sadaam Hussein and his regime took an active part in supporting Al Queda, none. The fact that a strong, extremist contingent of Al Queda is now leading the "insurgency" (which the world is continually told is under control) speaks volumes to the mass resentment for the United States that now permeates that country. WMD's? Not only has there been no evidence to support Iraq was in possession of any chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, they completely lack the ballistic capability to launch an attack. If Sadaam and his regime were such a powerful force, then why didn't they use these "weapons" as they, and their country was being decimated? And American lives saved you say? No, I think it is the complete opposite, think how many American lives have been wasted. I am not even your countrymen and my sympathies still go out to those who needlessly lost their lives, not to mention the thousands who are horribly injured. A man who dies at war is a tragedy and becomes a hero, and in turn we romanticise his death, "he died for his country" we say. A man loses the ability to walk and it is a statistic, a figure. Why? Because it is a tangible reminder of the horrid nature of war, and to recognize it would be to actually come face to face with the utter irresponsibility of this war. I would like to make it known that in no way, shape or form do I even hold the slightest bit of resentment for any man or woman who represents their country, which ever country it may be, in the armed forces. I hold them in the highest esteem, and in this situation even more so because they are fighting needlessly. Yet, to die in a needless war isn't honour, it is injustice.

    To Delta, I also mean no disrespect but to trivialize an entire socio-economic, and socio-political nightmare into an analogy of a man beating his wife, does not make sense to me. As CDB said in that situation, the wife-beater is subdued, the wife is saved, there are no victims. However, what if the wife doesn't want to be saved? What if she doesn't truly need your massive intervention to be saved? In this war, the pursuit of the almighty liberty and freedom are being "achieved" by the intervention of the United States. However, does forced freedom truly constitute freedom? Is it really democracy if it is imposed? The United States, and to the same extent the Western World cannot assume that our help is ALWAYS needed.
    You know my theory on this...

    Julius Caesar once said "Let them hate us, as long as they fear us."

    Now when asked if he would allow a search to see if had any WMD's, 3 things could have happened.
    1) HE doesnt allow a search, people fear him because they think he has WMD's. A win situation for saddam
    2) He allows a search, they find WMD's, they overthrow saddam. A lose situation for saddam
    3) They search, find nothing. People hated him in the first place. Now they have no need to fear him. Bye bye saddam.

    ...he had to say no to a search, even if he didnt have any WMD's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch
    You know my theory on this...

    Julius Caesar once said "Let them hate us, as long as they fear us."

    Now when asked if he would allow a search to see if had any WMD's, 3 things could have happened.
    1) HE doesnt allow a search, people fear him because they think he has WMD's. A win situation for saddam
    2) He allows a search, they find WMD's, they overthrow saddam. A lose situation for saddam
    3) They search, find nothing. People hated him in the first place. Now they have no need to fear him. Bye bye saddam.

    ...he had to say no to a search, even if he didnt have any WMD's.
    Yeah, but this is an entire war launched on a failed perception. The world's largest military power should not launch an entire war based on perception. No war should be launched by any country for that matter on such terms. I accept the general populus of any country is misinformed to the point where they percieve fear when a true threat does not exist. This misinformation, guided properly by misplaced patriotism, is the reason why this particular war occurred. However, in reality the average Joe in America had absolutely no reason to fear Sadaam Hussein. Like I said, Iraq lacked the ballistic capability to launch an attack on the United States, and had NOTHING to do with Sep.11. And I know I may offend some people here, but the misplaced patriotism I earlier alluded to became a need for vengeance against the other as retribution for the attacks of 9/11. The face of the enemy no longer mattered as long as someone who resembled the attackers were punished. The public psyche was fragile, and misguided fear facilitated an irresponsible war by an irresponsible government. So, like I said, fear is no reason to start a war.
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    I agree after 9/11 I wanted somebodys ass to pay. When Powell put on the show at the UN it was time... now I feel completely duped by the people that are supposed to lead... guess I am more naive than I would like to think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    Yeah, but this is an entire war launched on a failed perception. The world's largest military power should not launch an entire war based on perception. No war should be launched by any country for that matter on such terms. I accept the general populus of any country is misinformed to the point where they percieve fear when a true threat does not exist. This misinformation, guided properly by misplaced patriotism, is the reason why this particular war occurred. However, in reality the average Joe in America had absolutely no reason to fear Sadaam Hussein. Like I said, Iraq lacked the ballistic capability to launch an attack on the United States, and had NOTHING to do with Sep.11. And I know I may offend some people here, but the misplaced patriotism I earlier alluded to became a need for vengeance against the other as retribution for the attacks of 9/11. The face of the enemy no longer mattered as long as someone who resembled the attackers were punished. The public psyche was fragile, and misguided fear facilitated an irresponsible war by an irresponsible government. So, like I said, fear is no reason to start a war.
    What I said didnt have to do with the war directly. It had to do with why saddam wouldnt let UN inspectors in, which lead to the belief he had WMD, which lead to the war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch
    What I said didnt have to do with the war directly. It had to do with why saddam wouldnt let UN inspectors in, which lead to the belief he had WMD, which lead to the war.
    No what you said had everything to do with what I pointed out, and thank you for displaying it again. "which led to the belief he had WMD, which led to the war". Your government cashed in on a misguided public consciousness that was weak and in a vulnerable state. Like I said, a belief i.e., a perception SHOULD NOT be a cause of war, ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    No what you said had everything to do with what I pointed out, and thank you for displaying it again. "which led to the belief he had WMD, which led to the war". Your government cashed in on a misguided public consciousness that was weak and in a vulnerable state. Like I said, a belief i.e., a perception SHOULD NOT be a cause of war, ever.
    You say your govenment do you live in the US?


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    Nope, I live in Canada.....So I am directly above the **** storm and am privy to an objective opinion on this, IMO..
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    All this time I thought you were in the US military by your board name.


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    Hahaha...No, no I have the utmost respect for our members who are a part of the military..But the only military force I am apart of is the mullitia, a secret force dedicated to erradicating mullets every where...
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    Oh man you hurt my feelings. I thought you were mullet soldier because you HAVE a mullet. I have one btw. Well maybe I don't but you will never know. HA


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    the poor boy! thats so sad.... what a sweet boy you have there. its seriously touching.

    but....

    the entire thing is so complicated that it is impossible to really explain all aspects of the situation to a child when grown adults cant even completely comprehend what is really at hand. its hard for me to sit back and see on t.v. how many young young americans have died over there when they had such a great life ahead of them here in america. i understand that some of the argument is that we went to deal with WMD due to our own security but as mentioned by mullet soldier, we havent really found anything yet. i see that we have made great progress over there, but some still hate our guts and really do not have a full appreciation of all the dads,sons, daughters, grandchildren, etc... that we sacraficed for them. it would be so different i believe, if the people who decide that everyone else's children are going to war really think about what they are putting everyone through. i have really mixed feelings about the entire iraq issues. sad to say, im one of those people that wants to deal with issues that directly affect our home. i really do not know if it was worth it.

    lives are so precious, we should think harder than we do when we go into it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by refrieddreams
    But bro, this analogy was to a 9 year old. Also how many lives have been saved by removing this dictator? Perhaps thousands of American lives...we will never know what WMD could have been employed if the ***** didn't tuck tail and run.

    Look at the big picture!
    The problem is the big picture is not so clear.

    Or to paraphrase Delta's quote with a few modifications:

    The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war….

    I thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window.

    I said “Son, stand there and tell me what you see?”

    I see trees and cars and our neighbor’s houses.” He replied.

    “Ok, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush.”

    Our son giggled and said “OK.”

    “Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country” my husband said.

    “OK Dad, I’m pretending.”

    “Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam coming out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son…what do you do?

    “Dad?”

    “What do you do son?”

    “I’d call the police, Dad.”

    “There is no police force, son. All nations are sovereign. The closest thing we have to an international police force is the UN, which is an institution riddled with corruption and populated by representatives of nations who constantly bad mouth us, the US.”

    “Dad………but the police are supposed to be there and are supposed help!” My son starts to whine.

    “They don’t want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it. And they may be right, because the last time they got involved with such a thing they carved off a portion of Saddams property and gave it to someone else, and that's what eventually led to the first Gulf War. They also asked Mr Smith, our neighbor who my son will be Britain in this analgoy, occupy Saddam property for around 30 years. He stayed there twelve years trying to make Saddam 's predassessor more like use, but in the end after a boatload of pressure from his wife to come home, he did, and he left the person who was in Saddam's house at the time with a very immature idea of how to act like a westerner but also with a very effective arsenal of weapons. Their skills weren't enough to take on the world, but they took on each other and there were decades of brutal wife beatings following that before Saddam came into power. In fact, during our neighborhood's version of WWII the people in Saddam's house at that time were so pissed at the British occupation that they helped the Germans and slaughtered hundred of Iraqi Jews in their basement. And our neighbor had to back there again to sort things out, and it still didn't work as you can see."

    “But Dad…he's killing her!!” my son exclaims.

    “I know he is… but the last time our neighbor's problems in Iraq were basically the same, and that basically started over the same issue."

    "Alright," my son said. "Maybe international affairs aren't as simple as a wife beating."

    "Now, what if see our neighbor, who you’re pretending is Saddam, turn around and do the same thing to his children.”

    ”Daddy…he kills them?”

    “Yes son, he does. What do you do?”

    “Well, if the police don’t want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him.” Our son says.

    "Well, your next door neighbor has several treaties with Saddam, not to mention some under the table arrangements and won't be likely to help. And we have treaties and relational guidelines in place with them that make the process of asking for help pretty annoyingly hard. We have these relationships basically as a short term solution to threats in the past, and when they evaporate they're left over with no real purpose anymore. Or, we have them because our domestic corporations couldn't sell in those countries. It wasn't that they couldn't, it's that those countries wouldn't let Americans do business over there unless we agreed to give them a whole bunch of military support first."

    "But dad, why did we agree to something like that?"

    "Because son, you're only in charge of this house for four years, and that's what's called your time horizon. As long as you can keep things together for that amount of time, you're golden in the eyes of the public. When the **** hits the fan no one will look more than five minutes into the past or the future for a solution."

    “So son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open and help you stop him.”

    “But dad, I NEED help!!! I can’t stop him by myself!!”

    “WHAT DO YOU DO SON? My son starts to cry.

    “OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

    “What Daddy?”

    “He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then..he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

    “Daddy…”

    “WHAT DO YOU DO?”

    "I'D GO IT AlONE DAD!"

    "Courageous, son. Very brave. But you're not going anywhere. You see, the only reason he killed that old lady is because technically she was on his property. You see that's Mr Jones, and 20 years ago that house was his, but he had a fight with Mr Charles and Mr Charles won and cut of that piece of his property for his mother to live in. He also made Mr Jones still hold the responsibility for the maintenance of that property, which as you can understand could be quite annoying."

    "THEN WE'LL FIGHT BOTH MR JONES AND MR CHARLES!"

    "Well, not such a good idea either son, no matter how brave. You see before they fought and Mr Charles took that property, all of Mr Jone's property was in fact his, so he was really just trying take back what was his originally. In fact, that whole area of the neighborhood has been so full of property border disputes for so long no one really knows who rightfully owns what anymore, and everytime someone has tried to help them reach an equitable solution it's lasted a few years and then they just start fighting again."

    "Well, I still want to fight dad. I can do a better job than those who came before me. I'll succeed where they failed!"

    "Okay, brave and good son. But you're not going. You see, you're the president. You're going to order other people to go and take care of this for you, and a lot of them are going to die and there will be thousands of people grieving the loss of their son, their daughter, their father or mother, their nephew, etc. There will also be a lot of people killed over there who had nothing to do with the disputes and just wanted to live in what peace they could have while on this Earth."

    "So we don't have police, dad, because no one has absolute power over sovereign nations. And I can't really make a decision now because I realize the situations on the world stage aren't as simple as stopping a wife beating. With a wife beating, the good person and evil person are easy to spot. On the world stage it's not so simple, a lot of times it's the bad fighting the bad for their own respective bad reasons, and helping either side is jut stupid."

    “Son” I said:

    “Yes, Daddy.”

    “Open the blinds because that man…he’s at your front door….

    “WHAT DO YOU DO?”

    My son looked at me with anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and without hesitation he says: “I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!!! I’M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I’M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!"

    I couldn’t hold back the tears. I grabbed my son and held him close to my chest and told him…”It’s too late to fight him, he’s too strong and he’s already at YOUR front door son… you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way. You have to do what’s right, even if you have to do it alone, before it’s too late.” . THAT story I just told you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen son, “YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!” BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS…”

    And then, my son surprised me. He said, "But dad, I'll do some of that, but I said I'd do what's right. When I'm 18 I'm not going to vote for idiots who spread our military thin across the globe trying to solve other nation's problems, especially when such solutions are far from easy and in the end they aren't my business to get involved in, not in the way I would be morally obligated to stop a wife beating. I'm also not going to vote for idiots who get us involved with so many treaties and other BS agreements that tie our hands, especially when those other nations do little more than ***** about how horrible the US is while we're giving them more money and humanitarian aid than all other countries. I realize we're just scapegoats for the world to blame when it's their own assinine domestic policies causing all their problems.

    "And because I won't vote for those people dad, and because I will get as many people to not vote for them as possible, when that 'neighbor' shows up at our door we'll be able to shove a few thousand MX missels and a few million volunteer troops up his ass, and the knowledge that we can do that will keep most if not all such people at arms length. I also won't vote for people who support gun control, because it's pretty obvious how much trouble a few thousand armed insurgents in Iraq our giving our military, I think if someone did manage to invade the US even with the heat we're packing now I'd just have to wish them good luck, imagine what a few million armed Americans could accomplish against some third world towel heads with AK47s. And incidentally dad, if they're such a threat how come it took them 25 years to strike one major blow against us on our own soil?"

    And I cried my eyes out and hugged my son, because I knew he was not a neoconservative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    RFD, I respect your opinion but to this day, there has been ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support the initial premises of this war. In CIA advisement this administration was told that there is no tangible evidence to support Sadaam Hussein and his regime took an active part in supporting Al Queda, none. ...
    Canadians told this to any US diplomat they had the ear of BEFORE THE WAR. Hans Blix was vilifed for doing a good job and for standing up to insist there were no WMD. No-one listened then because they didn't want to, instead they used rhetoric.

    The fact that if one country side steps the UN WITHOUT ANY PROOF and invade another country purely for purposes of replacing power, the fact that this now legitimizes China to now consider the same tactic for "rogue states" such as Taiwan, the fact that the war was going to last for at least 10 years...all brushed aside by rhetoric.

    Why do you think that now they have been proven so completely wrong that they'd be more willing to listen to "I told you so"?

    You will simply hear more excuses.
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    Hum i cant believe you are brain washing your 9 year old son brain. Saddam had no power to threaten the US in any way, no army, and no wepons. Why did we go for war??? I have no idea, but we are ruled by a big idiot called Bush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    WOW


    I got chills bro.

    Are you Steven Chandler or is that someone else?


    CROWLER



    Along the same lines.


    "When the germans came for the gypsies, I did nothing because I am not a gypsie, when the Germans came for the teachers I did nothing because I am not a teacher, when the Germans came for the jews I did nothing because I am not a Jew, when the Germans came for me there was no one left to help me."
    Some young soldier, definitely not my old ass...My son is probably his age. But I thought it was a touching story that I wanted to share with my bro's on AM.
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    CDB, I just want to say that your edited version is extremly well written and thought out. But you must know that not everyone (and I mean most everyone) hasn't the intelligence level that you have. And you also know that I'm an old fart that believes "my country, right or wrong!"
  23. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta314
    CDB, I just want to say that your edited version is extremly well written and thought out. But you must know that not everyone (and I mean most everyone) hasn't the intelligence level that you have. And you also know that I'm an old fart that believes "my country, right or wrong!"
    I know. More or less I'd be there with you, I'd just make a speech first.

    As for my intelligence, I don't think i'm exceptional. I just read and think a lot because I've lost the motivation to jerk off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    I know. More or less I'd be there with you, I'd just make a speech first.

    As for my intelligence, I don't think i'm exceptional. I just read and think a lot because I've lost the motivation to jerk off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    As for my intelligence, I don't think i'm exceptional. I just read and think a lot because I've lost the motivation to jerk off.
    lol....i'm gonna have to give you reps for that one...lol

    as for the war...well i'm in the military and have been for 12 yrs so my opinion is bias, i do believe that at Saddam's non-compliance date the WHOLE country of the United States was pretty much backing the decision to go to Iraq, and i believe that President Bush truly did believe that he would find WMD as did most of us...
    the U.S. inteligence was wrong....
    am i saying there wasn't other agenda's also....who knows....i'm not in military intelligence so i can't say.
    fact is now it's monday and all the armchair quarterbacks are doing what they do best!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    WMD's? Not only has there been no evidence to support Iraq was in possession of any chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, they completely lack the ballistic capability to launch an attack.
    I bet all of the Kurds that were gassed and placed in mass graves would disagree...if they weren't killed by a weapon of mass destruction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionic
    I bet all of the Kurds that were gassed and placed in mass graves would disagree...if they weren't killed by a weapon of mass destruction.

    WASHINGTON - Among the treasure trove of information captured after Saddam Hussein's fall were tape recordings of the Iraqi leader discussing weapons of mass destruction with top aides.

    Transcripts of Saddam's tapes reviewed by NBC News show him ruminating about future terror attacks in the United States using weapons of mass destruction.

    "We shouldn’t be surprised to see a car bomb with nuclear [material] explode [in] Washington, either germ or chemical," Saddam tells aides. "So this is coming,” Saddam says on the tapes, “but not from Iraq," he adds, seeming to indicate that Iraq would not be the source of any such attack.

    n unidentified Saddam aide replies that biological weapons are easy to construct: “… any biologist can make it in water tank and kill 100,000 person … so you can’t accuse a country, one person can do it. One American person can do it in a house, next to the White House.”

    On another tape, Saddam says future terrorism will be with WMD. "It is possible in the future to see a booby trap and the explosion turns out to be nuclear, germ or chemical."

    U.S. intelligence analysts have confirmed to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Saddam’s voice on the audiotapes is authentic. The analysts believe most of the tapes were recorded in the ’90s, after the first Gulf War.

    “What the tapes show is that between the first gulf war and the second gulf war, Saddam Hussein had not lost his appetite for, or interest in, weapons of mass destruction,” says Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project, an advocacy group working to slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction. “To the contrary, he was almost obsessed by them.’’

    Importantly, though, many U.S. intelligence experts say the 12 hours of tape does not solve the riddle of whether Iraq was hiding weapons of mass destruction before the 2003 U.S. invasion.


    “It certainly shows that he was trying to deceive the U.N., but it doesn't show that he actually had weapons in his possession at the time of the invasion,” says Bill Harlow, a former CIA spokesman and an NBC News analyst.

    In the transcripts, one of Saddam’s aides discusses filling missiles with germs. “Yes, the intention is that the missile will be filled with chemical or germ, and when it comes down it will cover a wider circle than the traditional missile,” the aide tells Saddam. Saddam replies: “That’s good, they are teaching us things that will be useful in the future.”

    Other aides seem to discuss hiding weapons from U.N. inspectors. “We have not told them the truth about the imported material,” one says. He adds, “Where was the nuclear material transported to? A number of them were transported out of Iraq.” He also says: “We will confess, but not to the biological program.”


    The debates over Iraq’s WMD will likely continue. The House Intelligence Committee is pressing U.S. intelligence officials to publicly release more than 35,000 boxes of documents recovered in Iraq after the U.S. invasion. House Intelligence Committee Chairman Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., does not believe the documents have been fully translated and analyzed.

    John Loftus, an author and former federal prosecutor, obtained the Saddam audiotapes through a former U.S. military intelligence analyst, he says. Loftus tells NBC News he will play the tapes this weekend at an intelligence summit he is hosting in the Washington area.

    NBC News has not listened to the tapes and has not been able to independently confirm the accuracy of the translations.








    Sorry, consdiering the actions in the last 5 years in New York, Washington (seems people forget that they hit the Pentagon...the absolute central military target), London, Madrid, domestic anthrax attacks I am not willing to take the change that Sadamm was bluffing considering the fact he alreayd used them on his own people.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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    Well,. there´re far more people killed in traffic, as by WMD in America, or bomb attacks.

    There´s no comparison to the sacrifice the USA made in invading Irak, although
    freeing a country from a dictator and terror-regime might look like it´s something good.

    I belive most of the public wanted revenge to 9/11 and the world should see, who´s the boss, so the Irak was the next best opportunity, plus the best one with its oil-reserves.

    Why didn´t we invent Iran?

    Or why didn´t America combat Germany, the pilots and terrorists of 9/11 were educated, studying and living in Germany?

    Itßs always the same -the powerful are abusing their power and the law to reinforce their situation and wealth, they´re looking exactly after those, who will do exactly what they want them to do and who will believe in them.

    And a great great part of society think they´re led by a wise constitution and all of the laws are just for protecting and enforcing the public wealth and safety.

    It´s not! It´s all a big lie and the machines and the powerful will kill and abuse anyone they like to be next to be abused, bashed or instrumentalized for their sick plans, of their own wealth and ideology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastflight
    Well,. there´re far more people killed in traffic, as by WMD in America, or bomb attacks.

    There´s no comparison to the sacrifice the USA made in invading Irak, although
    freeing a country from a dictator and terror-regime might look like it´s something good.

    I belive most of the public wanted revenge to 9/11 and the world should see, who´s the boss, so the Irak was the next best opportunity, plus the best one with its oil-reserves.

    Why didn´t we invent Iran?

    Or why didn´t America combat Germany, the pilots and terrorists of 9/11 were educated, studying and living in Germany?

    Itßs always the same -the powerful are abusing their power and the law to reinforce their situation and wealth, they´re looking exactly after those, who will do exactly what they want them to do and who will believe in them.

    And a great great part of society think they´re led by a wise constitution and all of the laws are just for protecting and enforcing the public wealth and safety.

    It´s not! It´s all a big lie and the machines and the powerful will kill and abuse anyone they like to be next to be abused, bashed or instrumentalized for their sick plans, of their own wealth and ideology.
    What third world country are you from? This is about the most rediculous statement I've seen in here to date. I'm not even completely sure I (or you) know what you are saying....
    We vote for our leaders here.
    I kinda like our constitution. Have you read it?
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    The Iraqi people were not helpless, they are not comparable to children and an abusive father. Our country was formed by fighting for our independence against the most powerful empire in the world, they can't deal with a lunatic dictator? Not to mention they had much more reason to revolt considering the atrocities he was committing.

    They should have handled their own business, but the United States (Americans) are the only people who get **** done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brogers
    The Iraqi people were not helpless, they are not comparable to children and an abusive father. Our country was formed by fighting for our independence against the most powerful empire in the world, they can't deal with a lunatic dictator? Not to mention they had much more reason to revolt considering the atrocities he was committing.

    They should have handled their own business, but the United States (Americans) are the only people who get **** done.
    The Kurds and the Sh1tes are more than happy to have the US stands aside and let them use their militias to wipe out the Sunni terrorists and Al Qaeda, using the tactic they see fit.
  

  
 

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