- 06-12-2005, 11:17 PM
- 06-13-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by jrkarp
- 06-13-2005, 04:08 PM
06-13-2005, 04:43 PM
06-13-2005, 04:52 PM
Truth. The people wanted Washington to be king, not president and would have re-elected him until he died. He refused to run after his second term because he firmly believed in the Republic.Originally Posted by davisville64
06-14-2005, 03:02 PM
FDR? You must be kidding. That guy was the biggest scumbag one can imagine to become president. He almost did a better job of instituting Marxist principles (New Deal) into America than Lenin in Russia. And that's without mentioning all the FDR "conspiracy theories" such as his involvement in Pearl Harbor or his public promise to keep America out of WW2 while secretly doing everything he could to force us into war.When was that???
"You know I am a juggler, and I never let my right hand know what my left hand does. I'm perfectly willing to mislead and tell untruths..." - FDR, May 1941
06-15-2005, 10:44 AM
FDR was our nation's greatest president since Washington. Criticize him as a person all you want, he brought us out of a depression and through a war. He most certainly did do what was unpopular on many occasions because for that situation it was the right thing to do.
You may not like some of the institutions put in place, like welfare and social security. Yet during his Presidency they saved tens of thousands of lives if not millions. Unless you speak to people who were alive and poor during the depression, you will never have any clue as to how bad it was. Without welfare and soup kitchens a large percentage of our nation would have starved to death or died from overexposure (too cold in the winter with no heat, etc.) Now adays there is always a job, even if it is just minimum wage, there is always a job. Back then there weren't jobs. Not even for the lowest positions possible. There simply was no possible way for the vast majority of the lower class to get ANY money at all except through welfare.
Welfare is not needed anymore. This much is clear. Yet during that time period where the number of people outnumbered the jobs 4 to 1 or worse, it was positively necessary.
06-15-2005, 01:01 PM
That is the most absurd assertion I think I have ever heard. FDR did more to help communism than Stalin. In fact, he was good friends with Stalin. The New Deal was a communist document and failed miserably. FDR's policies not only extended the great Depression, they made it worse. This man did not care about America, he did not care about who starved. He sought to make war with Hitler at any cost and made major concessions with Russia when a time when we could have crushed Russia, thus causing the ensuing Cold War. He kept stories of the Holocaust out of U.S. media and interned thousands of Japanese in camps here in the U.S. His complete lack of a moral compass, combined with his attempts to bankrupt and destroy the solvency of the United States- even his "alleged" involvement in the planning of Pearl Harbor alone- make him a traitor, not a great man. Perhaps you have not studied him closely enough. Extremely popular, extremely charismatic, extremely anti-American. Teddy Roosevelt was a great president. FDR was not.FDR was our nation's greatest president since Washington. Criticize him as a person all you want, he brought us out of a depression and through a war.
06-15-2005, 02:45 PM
The opinions you just expressed can be explained in one word: "brainwashing."Originally Posted by Brooklyn
I think you've been reading too many of CDB's posts. Claiming that FDR's policies extended the Depression is beyond ridiculous. He put millions of people to work. If not for projects like the Lincoln Tunnels, the GWB, and the Empire State Building, millions would have not only been out of work but dead from starvation. What good is an economic recovery if that effort results in millions of people dead from starvation? You have a warped sense of morals if you think that it is worth a few million lives to starvation just to shave a year or two off of a recession. Plus to top it off, you have absolutely positive NO evidence whatsoever supporting your claim. None. Zero. Goose egg.
The biggest contributing factor to ending the Depression was WWII. It created and spurred on new industries which then required new jobs. Those new jobs put people to work. Once people were working they had income and fewer people were out on the street with no way to survive. I would argue that no policy that could ever be put into place would have ended the Great Depression any earlier because of that. It took NEW industries with never-before-seen product demand. This would not have happened for anything other than WWII.
As for your arguments about forcing us into WWII, that is the only war in all of history that even peacenicks admit was necessary. It was the only time where we were fighting something truly evil: the nazis. While there was a large anti-semitic sentiment in the USA, the human rights violations of the Nazis and their genecidal policies were something matched only by Stalin and his regime. All I would argue against the US in WWII is that they didn't continue on afterwards and push into the Soviet Union. Patton wanted to, but they didn't let him. Stalin was as great an evil in his treatment of his people and in his push world conquest. We had greater industrial might than the Soviet Union, AND we had the atomic bomb when no one else did. It would have cost probably double the lives to go into the Soviet Union, but it would have saved countless more (plus avoiding Korea, Vietnam, and a host of smaller Cold War incidents). But that point isn't even relavent to FDR since he was dead by then.
I think a lot of people fail to understand that there isn't one economic policy that will fit all situations. That's what gives this country its strength; its ability to change its own policies and economic structure at the will of its legislature. In some times of desperate need, liberal policies do actually work better. In most situations I would argue that fiscal conservative policies TEND to work better (obviously there are some limits you want to put on how conservative). Private markets do not regulate themselves, they only do what is in the best interests of making money. Monopolies are in businesses best interests but against the people's. Monopolies allow businesses to set whatever price they want and people are forced to pay it; you wind up with the situation you had in coal mining towns before Unions: people were OWNED by the company; it was just slavery. So the idea that business will regulate itself in the best interests of the people is patently absurd. We have mountains of historical PROOF that such extremes in capitalist policies fail as miserably as feudalism and in may cases worse.
06-15-2005, 07:19 PM
I think lincoln was better than him. Freed slaves and won civil war.Originally Posted by Nullifidian
06-15-2005, 08:08 PM
Lincoln also had a great amount of influence in CAUSING the civil war in the first place.Originally Posted by davisville64
06-16-2005, 06:32 PM
Many people still don't realize that yes he did free the slaves because of the North's victory over the South but his initial intentions was not to free the slaves. Plus many of his policies actually extended the civil war.
He allowed trains to cross over to the south and west to transport medicines, food rations, ammo, supplies to troops in the south when he could have easily strangled them within the first 2 years of the war.
06-17-2005, 12:14 AM
Lincoln wasn't all that keen on freeing the slaves. Believe me, Lincoln did not play the role of emancipator willingly, he was forced into the role. Lincoln himself believed that peaceful coexistence between newly freed blacks and whites would be impossible. Lincoln was a good man, and a good president, but as with many things you only really hear the side of the story that people want you to hear.Originally Posted by davisville64
06-17-2005, 02:29 AM
Now that's exactly the point I like to make.but as with many things you only really hear the side of the story that people want you to hear.
Are you sure this does not apply to the opinions YOU are expressing? They would seem to be the more popular (mis)conception.The opinions you just expressed can be explained in one word: "brainwashing."
LOL Yes, you will go on to make all of my points for me. FDR put the people to work- for the government, as in a communist state. I'll quote another writer on the subject:Claiming that FDR's policies extended the Depression is beyond ridiculous. He put millions of people to work.
"U.S. Population (1935)...120,000,000
46,000,000 Eligible for Old Age Pension
30,000,000 Children prohibited from working
30,000,000 Government employees
Left to produce U.S. wealth = 2
Just you and me - and I'm all worn out!"
The cold hard truth is that if you compare what FDR did and tried to do to the goals of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto (Yes, I've read it, have you?), they match up so perfectly that it is hard to imagine that a capitalist interest could possibly have been involved in Roosevelt's thinking.
"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property." - Karl Marx
As you see above, 30,000,000 government workers. FDR shut down the national banking system, with no intention of ever reviving it. He devised unconstitutional government institutions such as the NRA and AAA. When the Supreme Court kept trying to declare his acts unconstitutional, he attempted to pack the court with extra judges who would give him a majority. He did everything possible to prevent the American economy from recovering.
"The Washington administration has waged so ruthless a war on private enterprise that the US...is actually...leading the world back into the trough of depression." - Winston Churchill, 1937
FDR's New Deal failed so miserably that a New New Deal had to be struck. He had broken every campaign promise... to make the country financially solvent, to improve conditions for the working man, to reduce the unemployment and public assistance rate. "Herbert Hoover, 1928 Democrat Presidential Nominee Alfred E. Smith, and the 1924 Democrat Presidential Nominee John Davis all called the New Deal communistic."
Although any Google search on "FDR Communist" will provide thousands of results, here is one page which does a good job compiling a large amount of information on the subject:
Although there is some speculation involved, much of this is easily researchable fact, and even 1/10 of it being true is enough to debunk FDR as at the very best and most sympathetic a confused, second-rate intellectual with outlandish and unrealistic plans and at worst a communist, friend to Stalin and traitor to the United States.
Believing FDR to be a great president is one of those myths that government believes best to keep Americans in the dark about, like how Rosa Parks was instructed to resist sitting in the back of the bus in order to be arrested and thus spark a national outrage, or how the U.S. is notorious for supporting brutal dictators and later turning on them, such as the case of Saddam Hussein, or terrorists such as Osama Bin Laden, both of whom we have secretly supplied arms and aid to in the past. However hard it is to believe that this great country can have such a turbulent and scandalous history, ignoring that past is just what makes recurrence of such injustices possible.
06-20-2005, 08:20 PM
Give me time you guys and I will respond to these accusations and allegations of FDR. Just got a copy of the Warm Springs HBO movie about FDR. Plan to watch that soon. Will do some research on history channel.com and others.
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