Desecration of the Flag
- 06-11-2005, 11:43 AM
- 06-11-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by DR X
06-12-2005, 10:22 AM
06-12-2005, 04:16 PM
So then as you say it's ok to do cocaine because it dosent' touch anyone else? Sorry but as you stated I am of limited intelligence.Originally Posted by wdecuir
Looks to me like you are a law unto yourself and it's all about what is right for you. There are things as Duty, Honor, Respect, Self Sacrafice.
I'm have no doubt you hate me more than you hate those that are trying to destroy this country just becuase my Morality dosen't line up with what you consider morality. In the end I would die to preserve or freedoms even if it meant saving your life. Would you do the same?
O, and insults are not very becoming.
06-12-2005, 06:14 PM
I don't hate you or anyone else. Morality is a very subjective thing. Again I say, as long as you are not hurting me physically, I don't care what you do. If you were to say that you are a Nazi, I would not care. If you said you were a Stalinist I would not care. Why do you care so much about what someone else does?Originally Posted by DR X
Honor and the like are very good traits, however, we live in a country where freedom has been the most honorable. No one, not even the governement, has the right to tell me and you what we should do. The biggest scam has been that the government conviced people that they are a seperate entity. This is utter bs because we are the gov't. Lastly, I would die to perserve our freedoms but let's remember American Revolution. The war was fought to have no big brother lurking over our heads. Let us never forget that. But your logic seems to indicate that you would have been with the British bc they were pissed at what americans were doing. If you don't believe me just pick up any history book.
06-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Anymore **** like that and you are gone.Originally Posted by wdecuir
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06-12-2005, 06:35 PM
My family history suggests otherwise as I am from Germany (my mother is German) and my Grandfather who was the Mayor of Frankfurt at the time of WWII openly opposed Hitler and was executed for it. Freedom I understand, but there is no such thing as absoulate freedom, there is such a thing as right and wrong. Freedom in America has not been most honorable, but it is honorable men who have fought to give us freedom.Originally Posted by wdecuir
Again like these people who burned the flag, it's beyond burning the flag, it's denouncing your citizenship. And if you denounce your loyalty to this country and are inciting others to do so then for forfit your rights as a American citizen and are bringing aid and comfort for a group of people who are a current threat. Last I checked that is treason. O yeah and I also have a direct ancestor on my fathers side (American military) who is a signer of the Decelaration of Independence so histoiclly on both side of my family they chose to do the right thing. My family has taught me much.
06-12-2005, 06:47 PM
Yes. That's freedom when it's freedom for all, not just one. Freedom for one is a dictatorship. Freedom for some is a democracy it seems. Freedom for all would say that if you or anyone else wants to do cocaine, it's fine. If you want to get behind the wheel of car afterward and drive, and endanger the lives of a lot of people, it's not fine. It's summed up in that one statement in my other post: your freedom to swing your fist ends at another man's face, because then it impinges upon his freedom. Someone doing drugs, even if they do them to the point of complete self destruction, be it with cocaine, steroids, weed or heroin, is tragic but should not be illegal. Someone getting a near free education and achieving a level of wealth and freedom here they never could in their home country and then burning our flag is an *******, but their behavior should not be illegal. It should be mocked, and any and every social pressure possible should be brought to bear to squash those ****ers, but they should still have the right to do it. You can't make being an ungrateful, spiteful ******* illegal. If their behavior starts to demonstrably affect others in a negative way the government has a right to step in.Originally Posted by DR X
Now on this issue I am somewhat divided. It's not the burning of the flag really, though that pisses me off as I said it shouldn't be illegal. The key issue here is people pledging their loyalty to sworn enemies of the US that have already attacked us and have every intent of doing so again. But then the issue becomes at what point does what these people are doing start to aid an enemy, to actually enable them to attack us again? I'm not so sure their rallies and speeches don't to be honest, but it's a fine line and one I'm not necessarily sure should be crossed. I don't think we would honor the people who died in battles in the name of our country by surrendering the very freedoms they fought for because we have an aesthetic disagreement with how some few idiots exercise those freedoms.
06-12-2005, 07:11 PM
I appreciate your post and understand that it is a delima in descerning when a line is crossed. If we weren't at a so called war it would be alot easier to define to say the least.
On the issue of cocaine, in working with people who have done said drugs and others in know that doing them as you might think only to yourself has never not effected others. Total families have been destroyed because one member decided to excercise this freedom. Childeren have been devistated and it allow for a business that fluorishes to hurt many. And I could go on and on. Can we do it, of course. Is it beneficial, no. Will it harm others, absoutly. Freedom isn't free, it always has sacrafice. Only when we think of others and the effect our freedoms have on them will we truly be free.
06-12-2005, 07:40 PM
I've done plenty of cocaine in my time and I haven't hurt a fly. I know plenty of people who occasionally do coke, weed, and Christ knows how many other drugs who are leading full and productive lives. Some of them have kids, some don't. None of the kids seem to be doing badly, the ones I know the best are healthy and happy as can be. You know of some people for whom the opposite was true. Is that cause for throwing all users in prison then? That makes no sense. Some people can't control their eating and they pass that habit on to their kids with pretty obvious health consequences. Should we ban food?Originally Posted by DR X
No such substance will "absolutely" harm others if a person uses it. Which is why it's inherently criminal to use, which is why it should be legal. The people who can handle themselves and exercise self control don't deserve to have their freedom taken away because of the ones who can't. Show me a guy whose cocaine use is hurting his kids, you have my support in doing whatever it takes to get him to get his **** together, and taking the kids away if he can't. Show me a guy whose cocaine use is hurting no one, I say leave him alone. You accomplish nothing but a waste of resources which could have been used to further help someone who actually needed the help, or not collected in taxes to begin with.
06-12-2005, 08:16 PM
My point was not on the use of cocaine, I guess I wasn't clear. My point was that often time we do things and think they only effect us and not others. We must carefully weigh what we do. I know people just as you described and of course I have seen the other end of the spectrum. All those on the other end said they werent hurting others as well. Again my point in not on the use of coke but we seriously need to consider the consiquense of our action. Everything we do has a effect on others. But were getting off topic. Sort of. Be Cool.
06-12-2005, 09:40 PM
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