Desecration of the Flag

[kwyckemynd00]

I don't really have a problem with the burning of the flag, but the *******s who are doing it. People come here from another country, get into ours rather easily, which I have no problem with. Anyone who wants to try and make a life for themself is welcome as far as I'm concerned. Then they get a tax subsidized education, preferential treatment when it comes to hiring and all other areas where affirmative action like programs are in effect. Then after they've made a life for themselves they could barely hope for in other places, and never get in their home country, they burn the American flag, stomp on it, cheer when thousands of civilians are killed in terrorist attacks and chant things like, "America is evil."

Of course, should a white person with a Judeo-Christian background express the slightest displeasure with this behavior they're branded an ignorant racist, culturally insensitive, etc. And it seems a lot of people agree with this standard. It's indicative of a general lack of balls on the part of Americans that pisses me off. So I guess you could say it's not the demonstrators that piss me off but the current crop of Americans who have fostered the atmosphere in which this general lack of decorum and tastless, ungrateful ****ty behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged. Which is why I can't quite bring myself to hate Bush. I disagree with almost everything he's done, but it's nice to know not everyone in the United States is a nutless, submissive *****. It's also nice to know the world sees that we're still not a country you want to piss off.

Amen!

[CDB]

Unfortunately I cant open the video (its a work thing). But if these guys were trying to incite a riot then they should be arrested. The thing is though I agree with "its no big deal" people have been burning the American flag for quite some time now I actually applaud this type of nature because it is one of the things that makes our country great. People can come here and create a life that they wouldnt be able to anywhere else and still burn the flag and say America is evil and we don't hang them for it in fact we don't even consider it illegal as long as they have the permit to start a fire.

I think it was Twain who said something like: In America we have freedom of speech and the prudence to rarely exercise it. I would never even consider making this behavior illegal. But just because something is legal doesn't mean it's to be done. Whatever happened to propriety, gratefulness, decorum and a little assimilation into the mainstream? Personally I think what used to make this country greater was you had the freedom to do such things, but people rarely did them because they had judgement, prudence, moderate tempers, pride in their behavior and a sense of loyalty. People could disagree without being disagreeable in temper and attitude. I think we've been celebrating and 'tolerating' to an extreme the misfits and dissenters in this country a little too much. There's a difference between the police arresting someone for doing something stupid and a citizen going up to them and asking what the **** their problem is.

In short the law should always allow people to be dumb ****s as long as they're not hurting others, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has to tolerate it.

[DR X]

Are you trying to tell me that publicly denouncing our country is OK? Inciting others to do the same is OK. I think that is treason. Burning the flag is bad enough since is dishonors every American who gave their lives so that we may enjoy the freedoms we have. But this is ridiculous. It’s interesting reading the posts and watching the progression of anger to appeasement, just like politicians. I tell you what; if I went out publicly and told every American to rebel or burned an Iraqi flag there would every hate group on the planet on my ass so fast your head would spin. I hate to say this but we are fat and lazy and just like a crime scene we just stand there and say I didn’t see anything so we don’t get involved. So we will continue to make excuses and they will continue to hate (aren’t there hate crimes, O, that only applies to straight white males). The handwriting is on the wall. O I can’t say that it’s a Biblical Term. I guess I should ignore everything so I won’t offend anyone.



There is a stupid movie out called Team America. But it does make a good point. People come in 3 categories.

Those who fight back are Dicks---that’s me.
Pacifists are Pussies
And those trying to hurt us are *******s.

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder

[ironviking]

CDB I see exactly where your coming from and I agree. The thing is though most of the people you refer to as, "had judgement, prudence, moderate tempers, pride in their behavior and a sense of loyalty. People could disagree without being disagreeable in temper and attitude.", were born and/or raised in the U.S.. Pride and respect are instilled here, we have something to be proud of, those idiots burning the flag probably grew up in a skank ass country where pride and respect are among suicide bombers most of them idolize Saddam and Bin Laden. They finally have a place and the freedom to do something so rebellious and get away with it, its kind of like a little kid being rebellious towards thier parents, there really is no reason or cause but they do because they can. And no you dont have to tolerate it, you have the choice to walk up and hit one of them but you are infringing on thier rights, a better way may be to stand on the other side of the street and publicly display your pride in this country and its flag - tell people if they love America to yell it out. Pretty soon maybe noone will pay any attention to the idiots burning the flag. You have to let them have thier little display but nothing says you cant have your own display.


Dr. X how does burning a peice of fabric that was made in China, shipped on a nasty ass boat to america, and finally sitting on a shelf at Wal-Mart dishonor every American who gave their lives so that we may enjoy the freedoms we have. I understand the symbolism and I hold the flag sacred but they only dishonor them if you let them dishonor them. I honor our veterans by remembering them and showing my pride in my country, remember those guys fought and many died for ALL THE RIGHTS OF EVERY AMERICAN not just the ones we like.

[DR X]

by Capt. John Rasmussen

EAGLE BASE, Bosnia and Herzegovina (Army News Service, May 22, 2002)

-- It was raining "cats and dogs" and I was late for physical training.

Traffic was backed up at Fort Campbell, Ky., and was moving way too

slowly. I was probably going to be late and I was growing more and more

impatient.

The pace slowed almost to a standstill as I passed Memorial Grove,

the site built to honor the soldiers who died in the Gander airplane crash,

the worst redeployment accident in the history of the 101st Airborne

Division (Air Assault).

Because it was close to Memorial Day, a small American flag had been

placed in the ground next to each soldier's memorial plaque.

My concern at the time, however, was getting past the bottleneck,

getting out of the rain and getting to PT on time.

All of a sudden, infuriatingly, just as the traffic was getting

started again, the car in front of me stopped.

A soldier, a private of course, jumped out in the pouring rain and

ran over toward the grove.

I couldn't believe it! This knucklehead was holding up everyone for

who knows what kind of prank. Horns were honking.

I waited to see the butt-chewing that I wanted him to get for making

me late.

He was getting soaked to the skin. His BDUs were plastered to his

frame. I watched-as he ran up to one of the memorial plaques, picked up the

small American flag that had fallen to the ground in the wind and the rain,

and set it upright again.

Then, slowly, he came to attention, saluted, ran back to his car,

and drove off.

I'll never forget that incident. That soldier, whose name I will

never know, taught me more about duty, honor, and respect than a hundred

books or a thousand lectures.

That simple salute -- that single act of honoring his fallen brother

and his flag -- encapsulated all the Army values in one gesture for me. It

said, "I will never forget. I will keep the faith. I will finish the

mission. I am an American soldier."

I thank God for examples like that.

And on this Memorial Day, I will remember all those who paid the

ultimate price for my freedom, and one private, soaked to the skin, who

honored them.

[DR X]

Tell these guys it's ok to burn the flag

[ironviking]

When did I say it was ok to burn the flag, the idiot burned a peice of fabric that meant nothing to him, it was still his right to do so. He doesn't really understand what it means because the flag in his country was probably used as toilet paper if they ran out. These fools just know that burning the flag pisses off Americans. I mean really what did they accomplish by burning the flag, we already know that they hate America and Muslim groups have been telling the American Muslims for years now that we're their enemy and to rise up. You know why it wont happen because most of the Muslims that live in this country arent religous freakos, sure there's a few but they dont want to give up their American lifestyle they just want to talk big.

I understand your outrage at these idiots but really thats all they are is idiots.


One more thing, I'm glad you hold the flag sacred, I do as well and think every American should.

[DR X]

I think that denouncing any country is ok. i believe in absoulte freedom. the gov't should no regulate any behavior. For instance, If I want to use cocaine I should be able to. So I don't really care about anyone burning a flag. I think that you should get over it. BTW why don't you be orginal, it does not do you any good to quote an psychopath like Michael Savage.

Using your logic I 'll just go into your home and take your stuff. Absolute freedom, can't regulate my behavior.

[DR X]

When did I say it was ok to burn the flag, the idiot burned a peice of fabric that meant nothing to him, it was still his right to do so. He doesn't really understand what it means because the flag in his country was probably used as toilet paper if they ran out. These fools just know that burning the flag pisses off Americans. I mean really what did they accomplish by burning the flag, we already know that they hate America and Muslim groups have been telling the American Muslims for years now that we're their enemy and to rise up. You know why it wont happen because most of the Muslims that live in this country arent religous freakos, sure there's a few but they dont want to give up their American lifestyle they just want to talk big.

I understand your outrage at these idiots but really thats all they are is idiots.


One more thing, I'm glad you hold the flag sacred, I do as well and think every American should.

I understand you hold the flag and what it stands for sacred but here is where i'm coming from. These people aren't just some nuts who are defending a tree or a one eyed blue toed newt somewhere and fighting the so called establishment so they burn a flag in defiance. No, these are so called US Citizens who are Muslims, publicly denouncing this country, everything it stands for and publicaly announcing their allegince to the enemy of a group who currently wants to blow us up. They also are inciting others to do the same. To turn a blind eye to something like this is absolute foolishness. They should be arrested and deported at the very least and by not doing so we are giving aid to the enemy. People were winning after 9/11 and asking why wasn't something done. Nothing was done because in the name of tollerence we don't want to offend anyone. Pride for our county is fast going away which is why so many adopt this complacent attitude. If you come to this country and want to be a citizen then you are saying I want to adopt the American way of life, not I want to live here and bring my way of life. They are saying we must chance to conform to their way of life and we have idiot groups that back them. All that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.’

[CDB]

Tell these guys it's ok to burn the flag

He's not saying it okay to burn the flag, Doc. But it is legal and should remain so.

[CDB]

Using your logic I 'll just go into your home and take your stuff. Absolute freedom, can't regulate my behavior.

... unless it hurts someone else or their property. In other words your right to swing your fist ends at another man's face. Freedom for all, not just one.

I still wish I had a lead pipe and some time in a room alone with those pricks.

[wdecuir]

Using your logic I 'll just go into your home and take your stuff. Absolute freedom, can't regulate my behavior.

since you are a man of limited intelligence I will explain it to you. For example, You probably take or have taken prohormones or steriods in the past. There are a bunch of *******s that decided that you were to stupid to take them so they decided to ban them. Why did they do that? He or she thought that they know what is best for you. Freedom stops when you start to touch me or anyone else. If I or anyojne else wants to do anything without toching someone else, I believe it is fine. And for the soliders who died, I respect their service but my freedom should not stop when you or anyone does not like it.

[DR X]

I don't really have a problem with the burning of the flag, but the *******s who are doing it. People come here from another country, get into ours rather easily, which I have no problem with. Anyone who wants to try and make a life for themself is welcome as far as I'm concerned. Then they get a tax subsidized education, preferential treatment when it comes to hiring and all other areas where affirmative action like programs are in effect. Then after they've made a life for themselves they could barely hope for in other places, and never get in their home country, they burn the American flag, stomp on it, cheer when thousands of civilians are killed in terrorist attacks and chant things like, "America is evil."

Of course, should a white person with a Judeo-Christian background express the slightest displeasure with this behavior they're branded an ignorant racist, culturally insensitive, etc. And it seems a lot of people agree with this standard. It's indicative of a general lack of balls on the part of Americans that pisses me off. So I guess you could say it's not the demonstrators that piss me off but the current crop of Americans who have fostered the atmosphere in which this general lack of decorum and tastless, ungrateful ****ty behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged. Which is why I can't quite bring myself to hate Bush. I disagree with almost everything he's done, but it's nice to know not everyone in the United States is a nutless, submissive *****. It's also nice to know the world sees that we're still not a country you want to piss off.

Very well said, to bad so many don't get the implications of the action.

[DR X]

since you are a man of limited intelligence I will explain it to you. For example, You probably take or have taken prohormones or steriods in the past. There are a bunch of *******s that decided that you were to stupid to take them so they decided to ban them. Why did they do that? He or she thought that they know what is best for you. Freedom stops when you start to touch me or anyone else. If I or anyojne else wants to do anything without toching someone else, I believe it is fine. And for the soliders who died, I respect their service but my freedom should not stop when you or anyone does not like it.

So then as you say it's ok to do cocaine because it dosent' touch anyone else? Sorry but as you stated I am of limited intelligence.
Looks to me like you are a law unto yourself and it's all about what is right for you. There are things as Duty, Honor, Respect, Self Sacrafice.
I'm have no doubt you hate me more than you hate those that are trying to destroy this country just becuase my Morality dosen't line up with what you consider morality. In the end I would die to preserve or freedoms even if it meant saving your life. Would you do the same?

O, and insults are not very becoming.

[wdecuir]

So then as you say it's ok to do cocaine because it dosent' touch anyone else? Sorry but as you stated I am of limited intelligence.
Looks to me like you are a law unto yourself and it's all about what is right for you. There are things as Duty, Honor, Respect, Self Sacrafice.
I'm have no doubt you hate me more than you hate those that are trying to destroy this country just becuase my Morality dosen't line up with what you consider morality. In the end I would die to preserve or freedoms even if it meant saving your life. Would you do the same?

O, and insults are not very becoming.

I don't hate you or anyone else. Morality is a very subjective thing. Again I say, as long as you are not hurting me physically, I don't care what you do. If you were to say that you are a Nazi, I would not care. If you said you were a Stalinist I would not care. Why do you care so much about what someone else does?

Honor and the like are very good traits, however, we live in a country where freedom has been the most honorable. No one, not even the governement, has the right to tell me and you what we should do. The biggest scam has been that the government conviced people that they are a seperate entity. This is utter bs because we are the gov't. Lastly, I would die to perserve our freedoms but let's remember American Revolution. The war was fought to have no big brother lurking over our heads. Let us never forget that. But your logic seems to indicate that you would have been with the British bc they were pissed at what americans were doing. If you don't believe me just pick up any history book.

[Dwight Schrute]

since you are a man of limited intelligence I will explain it to you.

Anymore **** like that and you are gone.

[DR X]

I don't hate you or anyone else. Morality is a very subjective thing. Again I say, as long as you are not hurting me physically, I don't care what you do. If you were to say that you are a Nazi, I would not care. If you said you were a Stalinist I would not care. Why do you care so much about what someone else does?

Honor and the like are very good traits, however, we live in a country where freedom has been the most honorable. No one, not even the governement, has the right to tell me and you what we should do. The biggest scam has been that the government conviced people that they are a seperate entity. This is utter bs because we are the gov't. Lastly, I would die to perserve our freedoms but let's remember American Revolution. The war was fought to have no big brother lurking over our heads. Let us never forget that. But your logic seems to indicate that you would have been with the British bc they were pissed at what americans were doing. If you don't believe me just pick up any history book.

My family history suggests otherwise as I am from Germany (my mother is German) and my Grandfather who was the Mayor of Frankfurt at the time of WWII openly opposed Hitler and was executed for it. Freedom I understand, but there is no such thing as absoulate freedom, there is such a thing as right and wrong. Freedom in America has not been most honorable, but it is honorable men who have fought to give us freedom.

Again like these people who burned the flag, it's beyond burning the flag, it's denouncing your citizenship. And if you denounce your loyalty to this country and are inciting others to do so then for forfit your rights as a American citizen and are bringing aid and comfort for a group of people who are a current threat. Last I checked that is treason. O yeah and I also have a direct ancestor on my fathers side (American military) who is a signer of the Decelaration of Independence so histoiclly on both side of my family they chose to do the right thing. My family has taught me much.

[CDB]

So then as you say it's ok to do cocaine because it dosent' touch anyone else?

Yes. That's freedom when it's freedom for all, not just one. Freedom for one is a dictatorship. Freedom for some is a democracy it seems. Freedom for all would say that if you or anyone else wants to do cocaine, it's fine. If you want to get behind the wheel of car afterward and drive, and endanger the lives of a lot of people, it's not fine. It's summed up in that one statement in my other post: your freedom to swing your fist ends at another man's face, because then it impinges upon his freedom. Someone doing drugs, even if they do them to the point of complete self destruction, be it with cocaine, steroids, weed or heroin, is tragic but should not be illegal. Someone getting a near free education and achieving a level of wealth and freedom here they never could in their home country and then burning our flag is an *******, but their behavior should not be illegal. It should be mocked, and any and every social pressure possible should be brought to bear to squash those ****ers, but they should still have the right to do it. You can't make being an ungrateful, spiteful ******* illegal. If their behavior starts to demonstrably affect others in a negative way the government has a right to step in.

Now on this issue I am somewhat divided. It's not the burning of the flag really, though that pisses me off as I said it shouldn't be illegal. The key issue here is people pledging their loyalty to sworn enemies of the US that have already attacked us and have every intent of doing so again. But then the issue becomes at what point does what these people are doing start to aid an enemy, to actually enable them to attack us again? I'm not so sure their rallies and speeches don't to be honest, but it's a fine line and one I'm not necessarily sure should be crossed. I don't think we would honor the people who died in battles in the name of our country by surrendering the very freedoms they fought for because we have an aesthetic disagreement with how some few idiots exercise those freedoms.

[DR X]

I appreciate your post and understand that it is a delima in descerning when a line is crossed. If we weren't at a so called war it would be alot easier to define to say the least.
On the issue of cocaine, in working with people who have done said drugs and others in know that doing them as you might think only to yourself has never not effected others. Total families have been destroyed because one member decided to excercise this freedom. Childeren have been devistated and it allow for a business that fluorishes to hurt many. And I could go on and on. Can we do it, of course. Is it beneficial, no. Will it harm others, absoutly. Freedom isn't free, it always has sacrafice. Only when we think of others and the effect our freedoms have on them will we truly be free.

[CDB]

On the issue of cocaine, in working with people who have done said drugs and others in know that doing them as you might think only to yourself has never not effected others. Total families have been destroyed because one member decided to excercise this freedom. Childeren have been devistated and it allow for a business that fluorishes to hurt many. And I could go on and on. Can we do it, of course. Is it beneficial, no. Will it harm others, absoutly.

I've done plenty of cocaine in my time and I haven't hurt a fly. I know plenty of people who occasionally do coke, weed, and Christ knows how many other drugs who are leading full and productive lives. Some of them have kids, some don't. None of the kids seem to be doing badly, the ones I know the best are healthy and happy as can be. You know of some people for whom the opposite was true. Is that cause for throwing all users in prison then? That makes no sense. Some people can't control their eating and they pass that habit on to their kids with pretty obvious health consequences. Should we ban food?

No such substance will "absolutely" harm others if a person uses it. Which is why it's inherently criminal to use, which is why it should be legal. The people who can handle themselves and exercise self control don't deserve to have their freedom taken away because of the ones who can't. Show me a guy whose cocaine use is hurting his kids, you have my support in doing whatever it takes to get him to get his **** together, and taking the kids away if he can't. Show me a guy whose cocaine use is hurting no one, I say leave him alone. You accomplish nothing but a waste of resources which could have been used to further help someone who actually needed the help, or not collected in taxes to begin with.