A commercial that makes me sick

DieTrying · 10-18-2004, 10:48 AM

The commercial is in support of Kerry, and it is an interview with a US soldier that was in Iraq. He says something along the lines of "when I went to Iraq instead of Afghanistan, I didn't know why. When people ask me where the WMD were, I say that I don't know." Then he says "when people ask me what happened to my arm , I say I don't know." His arm from his elbow down was pretty much blown away.

I greatly respect his sacrifice and his service, but thats about all I respect. When you enlist (he wasn't drafted) to go into the United States military and are sent to war, you should be prepared to die. Sorry, thats the way I see it. He should be proud that he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for his country, but for him to come back and cry like a little ***** makes me sick. Sorry, but videos of people having their heads cut off and of soldiers with no arms does not scare me and I hope it doesn't scare you. This is WAR...people die, and if I were to enlist (which I've considered), I would expect to die for my country and this cause.

What do you guys think?

custom · 10-18-2004, 12:09 PM

I totally agree.

On a side note, I thought active-duty personnel could not speak out against the President or a current war or they would be court marshalled...

MarcusG · 10-18-2004, 11:54 PM

'Crying like a little *****'? From your description, he didn't seem to do that. He was troubled that he got in harms way and got his arm blown off for reasons of corporate greed.

People in orange jumpsuits begging for their lives - now they were crying like *****es 'so to speak'.

**kwyckemynd00** · 10-18-2004, 11:57 PM

I think it's sick that the DNC is politicizing him. That's what disgusts me the most.

I do believe that people should not enlist in the military and then ***** when they go to war, but his arm is missing, so I'm not going to complain at him for being pissed. If this ends up being a world stabilizing move (Iraq), which I very well may be, I'm sure he may be able to be proud of his sacrifice. Otherwise, he'll be a democrat for life....scary.

Brodus · 10-19-2004, 12:00 AM

Quote:

I think it's sick that the DNC is politicizing him. That's what disgusts me the most

Exactly. We're human beings, we're going to have feelings, and we're entitled to those feelings, but politicizing everything disgusts me...and it permeates EVERYTHING...makes me want to go live in the middle of nowhere on a farm and worry about simpler things.

**kwyckemynd00** · 10-19-2004, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodus

Exactly. We're human beings, we're going to have feelings, and we're entitled to those feelings, but politicizing everything disgusts me...and it permeates EVERYTHING...makes me want to go live in the middle of nowhere on a farm and worry about simpler things.

Farm sounds great

Don't forget your AAS though

**Beelzebub** · 10-19-2004, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by custom

I totally agree.

On a side note, I thought active-duty personnel could not speak out against the President or a current war or they would be court marshalled...

if he spoke directly about the president, then yeah, he could get in some deep ****. but i don't see a problem with what he said, just the fact that dickheads publicize it. i've been in for over 7 years now and i'll be the first to state my opinion when questioned, regardless of the consequences.

**CDB** · 10-19-2004, 07:58 AM

Whether it's in good taste or not I won't argue, it isn't. However, the fact that enlisted personel go into the army voluntarily doesn't mean they don't have a right to expect that when they are used in any type of action it's for a just cause and a damn good reason. That's just a general statement. With regard to our current war I'm still on the fence.

INFOHAZARD · 10-23-2004, 03:27 AM

I should hope that a wounded veteran would still have freedom of speech- in fact, it seems to me that's the point. I haven't seen it, but generally soldiers missing limbs are discharged rather rapidly, and if he wasn't in uniform, the Hatch Act doesn't apply. If he was in uniform, he must have danced carefully around the rules (and depended on the fact that no one would be so stupid as to prosecute a badly wounded vet in the process of being medically boarded out).

As to his getting used by the politicians, why does anyone assume he's not the one who asked to be on the ad? Just because he doesn't see things the way you do doesn't mean he's being coerced. He's given a hell of a lot more than any of you have for the right to speak out.

**kwyckemynd00** · 10-23-2004, 12:38 PM

I guess I can't really say too much anymore after Bush's "less somber" 9/11 ad where a girl whose father died clung to GWB and hugged him. They capitalized off of that moment to make Bush look good, so I guess that's as much politicizations as anything else. I find a distinct difference between the two, but that could just as well be my own personal bias--that "bias" thingy can sometimes make you not quite as objective as you would be otherwise

Overall, it didn't change the fact I think it "sounds" (I never saw it) like a crappy ass ad to run b/c they're exploiting the anger of a man who lost a limb and treating it as if that's "how" the military feels, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada.

EDIT: BTW, it's good to have you back HAZARDOUSINFO

**CDB** · 10-23-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00

Farm sounds great

Don't forget your AAS though

They're for the cattle, dude. The cattle...

I just love the idea of some huge, ripped farmer walking around his place with a bunch of skinny ass cows mooing plaintively in the background.

**kwyckemynd00** · 10-23-2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB

They're for the cattle, dude. The cattle...

I just love the idea of some huge, ripped farmer walking around his place with a bunch of skinny ass cows mooing plaintively in the background.

LOL. Yeah, that would be quite the sight to see!

DieTrying · 10-23-2004, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INFOHAZARD

As to his getting used by the politicians, why does anyone assume he's not the one who asked to be on the ad? Just because he doesn't see things the way you do doesn't mean he's being coerced. He's given a hell of a lot more than any of you have for the right to speak out.

Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.

**CDB** · 10-23-2004, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieTrying

Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.

I would disagree with that. I do think that soldiers can join the military and question how they are used. I think there is something incredibly frightening about the "just following orders" mentality. When joining the military you should be aware that you may be put in harm's way. I don't think that means though that you can't question the justification for being put in harm's way. I believe, quite strongly, that soldiers, police officers, INS agents, etc., not only have the right to question the judgement of their leaders, they have the moral duty to themselves to do so. Since it's their lives on the line, they have every right to question whether or not the cause is just.

What would happen, for example, if most cops were asked whether the risks they take and the resources they bring to bear in this country were better spent locking up roid and weed users, or going after murderers and rapists?

INFOHAZARD · 10-23-2004, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieTrying

Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.

I get it....

I think he fulfilled his responsibility already and I think you don't have the first clue about the role of the military in a free society.
Go do 12 years in like I did, or even 2 years. Then we'll talk....

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right.

"Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else.

"But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than any one else."

-- Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Funny Monkey · 10-23-2004, 10:19 PM

this doesnt really make me mad I feel bad for the dude. I am in the Navy and personally I woudl rather die with honor in the ocean thinking I was serving my country tan lose a limb and then later find out that the specific reasons we were at war were not proven in the end. Whether he believes we are making a difference around the world or not he was fighting because he was told they had WMD's and ties with Alqaeda (sp?). I feel sympathy for him and at the same time I think that he should have more honor and look at the better side of things rather than the negative. Being pissed doesnt make a new arm grow back. Bitterness destroys the vessel that holds it more so than the person it could be poured out upon.