A commercial that makes me sick

DieTrying

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The commercial is in support of Kerry, and it is an interview with a US soldier that was in Iraq. He says something along the lines of "when I went to Iraq instead of Afghanistan, I didn't know why. When people ask me where the WMD were, I say that I don't know." Then he says "when people ask me what happened to my arm , I say I don't know." His arm from his elbow down was pretty much blown away.

I greatly respect his sacrifice and his service, but thats about all I respect. When you enlist (he wasn't drafted) to go into the United States military and are sent to war, you should be prepared to die. Sorry, thats the way I see it. He should be proud that he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for his country, but for him to come back and cry like a little bitch makes me sick. Sorry, but videos of people having their heads cut off and of soldiers with no arms does not scare me and I hope it doesn't scare you. This is WAR...people die, and if I were to enlist (which I've considered), I would expect to die for my country and this cause.

What do you guys think?
 
custom

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I totally agree.

On a side note, I thought active-duty personnel could not speak out against the President or a current war or they would be court marshalled...
 

MarcusG

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'Crying like a little bitch'? From your description, he didn't seem to do that. He was troubled that he got in harms way and got his arm blown off for reasons of corporate greed.

People in orange jumpsuits begging for their lives - now they were crying like bitches 'so to speak'.
 
kwyckemynd00

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I think it's sick that the DNC is politicizing him. That's what disgusts me the most.

I do believe that people should not enlist in the military and then bitch when they go to war, but his arm is missing, so I'm not going to complain at him for being pissed. If this ends up being a world stabilizing move (Iraq), which I very well may be, I'm sure he may be able to be proud of his sacrifice. Otherwise, he'll be a democrat for life....scary.
 

Brodus

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I think it's sick that the DNC is politicizing him. That's what disgusts me the most
Exactly. We're human beings, we're going to have feelings, and we're entitled to those feelings, but politicizing everything disgusts me...and it permeates EVERYTHING...makes me want to go live in the middle of nowhere on a farm and worry about simpler things.
 
kwyckemynd00

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Exactly. We're human beings, we're going to have feelings, and we're entitled to those feelings, but politicizing everything disgusts me...and it permeates EVERYTHING...makes me want to go live in the middle of nowhere on a farm and worry about simpler things.
Farm sounds great ;) Don't forget your AAS though :D
 
Beelzebub

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I totally agree.

On a side note, I thought active-duty personnel could not speak out against the President or a current war or they would be court marshalled...
if he spoke directly about the president, then yeah, he could get in some deep ****. but i don't see a problem with what he said, just the fact that dickheads publicize it. i've been in for over 7 years now and i'll be the first to state my opinion when questioned, regardless of the consequences.
 
CDB

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Whether it's in good taste or not I won't argue, it isn't. However, the fact that enlisted personel go into the army voluntarily doesn't mean they don't have a right to expect that when they are used in any type of action it's for a just cause and a damn good reason. That's just a general statement. With regard to our current war I'm still on the fence.
 

INFOHAZARD

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I should hope that a wounded veteran would still have freedom of speech- in fact, it seems to me that's the point. I haven't seen it, but generally soldiers missing limbs are discharged rather rapidly, and if he wasn't in uniform, the Hatch Act doesn't apply. If he was in uniform, he must have danced carefully around the rules (and depended on the fact that no one would be so stupid as to prosecute a badly wounded vet in the process of being medically boarded out).

As to his getting used by the politicians, why does anyone assume he's not the one who asked to be on the ad? Just because he doesn't see things the way you do doesn't mean he's being coerced. He's given a hell of a lot more than any of you have for the right to speak out.
 
kwyckemynd00

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I guess I can't really say too much anymore after Bush's "less somber" 9/11 ad where a girl whose father died clung to GWB and hugged him. They capitalized off of that moment to make Bush look good, so I guess that's as much politicizations as anything else. I find a distinct difference between the two, but that could just as well be my own personal bias--that "bias" thingy can sometimes make you not quite as objective as you would be otherwise ;)

Overall, it didn't change the fact I think it "sounds" (I never saw it) like a crappy ass ad to run b/c they're exploiting the anger of a man who lost a limb and treating it as if that's "how" the military feels, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada.

EDIT: BTW, it's good to have you back HAZARDOUSINFO ;)
 
CDB

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Farm sounds great ;) Don't forget your AAS though :D
They're for the cattle, dude. The cattle...

I just love the idea of some huge, ripped farmer walking around his place with a bunch of skinny ass cows mooing plaintively in the background.
 
kwyckemynd00

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They're for the cattle, dude. The cattle...

I just love the idea of some huge, ripped farmer walking around his place with a bunch of skinny ass cows mooing plaintively in the background.
LOL. Yeah, that would be quite the sight to see!
 

DieTrying

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As to his getting used by the politicians, why does anyone assume he's not the one who asked to be on the ad? Just because he doesn't see things the way you do doesn't mean he's being coerced. He's given a hell of a lot more than any of you have for the right to speak out.
Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.
 
CDB

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Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.
I would disagree with that. I do think that soldiers can join the military and question how they are used. I think there is something incredibly frightening about the "just following orders" mentality. When joining the military you should be aware that you may be put in harm's way. I don't think that means though that you can't question the justification for being put in harm's way. I believe, quite strongly, that soldiers, police officers, INS agents, etc., not only have the right to question the judgement of their leaders, they have the moral duty to themselves to do so. Since it's their lives on the line, they have every right to question whether or not the cause is just.

What would happen, for example, if most cops were asked whether the risks they take and the resources they bring to bear in this country were better spent locking up roid and weed users, or going after murderers and rapists?
 

INFOHAZARD

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Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.
I get it....






I think he fulfilled his responsibility already and I think you don't have the first clue about the role of the military in a free society.
Go do 12 years in like I did, or even 2 years. Then we'll talk....


"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right.

"Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else.

"But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than any one else."

-- Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
 

Funny Monkey

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this doesnt really make me mad I feel bad for the dude. I am in the Navy and personally I woudl rather die with honor in the ocean thinking I was serving my country tan lose a limb and then later find out that the specific reasons we were at war were not proven in the end. Whether he believes we are making a difference around the world or not he was fighting because he was told they had WMD's and ties with Alqaeda (sp?). I feel sympathy for him and at the same time I think that he should have more honor and look at the better side of things rather than the negative. Being pissed doesnt make a new arm grow back. Bitterness destroys the vessel that holds it more so than the person it could be poured out upon.
 

INFOHAZARD

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So campaigning for Kerry is the same as being negative and bitter?
 

Funny Monkey

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So campaigning for Kerry is the same as being negative and bitter?
No no no no you got me all wrong. This guy needs to not be bitter for his own sake. I don't car who he is for or against he lost his arm serving this country. My heart goes out to him. But he needs to keep that head high and try and make the best.

You can't tell me that you don't see an angry young man in that commercial? He is simply being negative by looking at the fact that he lost his arm for an empty cause. There are good things that have or will come of this war and there have been bad thigns that have been prevented.

I don't know who is right when it comes to the war. It's ugly thats all I know. When I joined and I serve I serve the United States of America and the people thereof not the President.
 

good_guye28

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i agree i am in the military and we are always told not to say anything to the madia, let our unit reps talk..... that way no one gets into trouble
 

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What I find reprehensible is the continued democrat party line of "bush abandoned the afghanistan mission".

Remember Pat Tillman? He died in Afghanistan. We have NEVER left Afghanistan, the mission and tactics have simply changed from a standard military op to black op. The DNC is taking advantage of the fact that simply because of the secretive nature of our operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan that there is no media coverage, and Americans, having the attention span of gerbils think that we have left Afghanistan. It's ridiculous.

Kerry and the democrats would like everyone to think that by simply shoving troops into Afghanistan it would mean success. Sorry, but that is not feasible when you are trying to not only hunt down terrorists, but blend in and "make friends" with the local populace. Especially when one considers the regions history.


And don't get me started on the inference by DNC commercials that the whole WMD thing was a lie, Dubya wasn't the first president to take military action against Iraq because of a "wmd threat", Clinton was with operation Desert Fox. So unless they want to go back and call ALL people who referenced WMD's in Iraq as justification for military action they need to shut the f up. But everyone knows that they won't do it because they know that their side is equally as culpable. Once again, taking advantage of the gerbil attention span.


Another ironic thing is that there is obviously a "awww, look he lost an arm because of Bush" angle that the ad plays up. It's a play right out of the book of Michael Moore, but you see, the problem with that is that the guy in F911 is PISSED that Michael Moore used his image for his leftist propaganda, Fhype911 shows him quite well.

But if you actually talk to people in the military, as I have, they are OVERWHELMINGLY pro Bush. My buddy (i'm ex military) who has done two stints in iraq as an aerial gunner on a pave low cannot understand the incredible bias he sees in the media here and supports Bush 200%.

I simply cannot wait for this election to be over, I hope whomever wins, the losing side comes around and works together and is still aggressive and we don't go back to the pre-911 mindset. The seriousness of the threat is too great to let get mish mashed by politics.
 
Sanosuke

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Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country. Its like my friend who is a soldier in the military and is voting for Kerry because he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight. WTF IS THAT? But you're right about him not seeing things the way I do. He can have his opinion and so can I. I just don't think he understands his responsibility.
So it seems in your mind us military guys should have no opinions and follow our orders and shut the f up, i just don't appreciate people talking **** about us service members and there not even in a service to begin with.. We are people and have opinions. I try not to get into these discussions but anyway I firmly believe Bush rushed the war on iraq because of personal reasons dating back to his father and before and used 9/11 as a scapegoat HOPING to find those WMD's just so then he could look like the big hero. Anyway there's a difference between defending our country and be USED by the government as expendable drones for unjust causes.. Although the war will continue even if Kerry is elected, since the US is in to big of a whole now..

Lastley you shouldn't Expect to die when joining a service.. no one should have that mentallity.. you should only have to be put in harms way as a LAST resort and when the lives of US citizens are at risk.. and I dont beleive this is one of those times
 
Sanosuke

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I totally agree.

On a side note, I thought active-duty personnel could not speak out against the President or a current war or they would be court marshalled...
You are allowed to say what you want were not in Cuba.. i think you cant participate in an organized anti-war protest in uniform though..
 
RobInKuwait

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Because he made the choice to go in...as I said above, when you make the choice to join the military, you make the choice to die for your country.
Nobody signs up to die. Soldiers understand its a risk they take in their chosen profession, but soldiers still don't want to die.

I just don't think he understands his responsibility.
That dude gave a fucking limb fighting for the United States in a foreign country and you have the audacity to question whether he understands his responsibility? Its real easy to preach responsibility when your not a soldier and your not at war. I guess its just like being an armchair quarterback during football season.
 

PastorofMuppets

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You are allowed to say what you want were not in Cuba.. i think you cant participate in an organized anti-war protest in uniform though..
Actually, if you are an NCO or and officer I know that your are not allowed to criticize. That I remember from my NCO training. Lower ranking enlisted, not sure about that.
 

INFOHAZARD

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But if you actually talk to people in the military, as I have, they are OVERWHELMINGLY pro Bush. My buddy (i'm ex military) who has done two stints in iraq as an aerial gunner on a pave low cannot understand the incredible bias he sees in the media here and supports Bush 200%.
Like the United States Army War College is biased?

"A scathing new report published by the Army War College broadly criticizes the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism, accusing it of taking a detour into an "unnecessary" war in Iraq and pursuing an "unrealistic" quest against terrorism that may lead to U.S. wars with states that pose no serious threat."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8435-2004Jan11?language=printer
(the original Army report is available on this site as a pdf)

I'm ex-military myself and have served years in the middle east. Yes, the majority of active duty are for this war, but you might want to note who among the ranks isn't.

My brother-in law is a field-grade S.F. officer. He was at Tora Bora and has been back there quite a bit since. He used to be a Bush supporter. He certainally may not be in the majority among his peers for supporting Kerry now, but I can tell you, the higher you go, the more dissent there is.
 
Sanosuke

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Yes, the majority of active duty are for this war
Im active duty in the air force but live on an army base.. and honestly Ive noticed the exact opposite.. I know very few who are FOR this war
 
kwyckemynd00

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Im active duty in the air force but live on an army base.. and honestly Ive noticed the exact opposite.. I know very few who are FOR this war
The statistics I read for being FOR the war show about 55% to 45% in favor, which is pretty damn close and not a good sign for the war. HOWEVER, Bush's support IS in fact approximatley 4:1 in favor of Bush.
 

DieTrying

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Hey I wasn't trying to offend any of you guys in the military. Everybody can have their opinions, especially you guys. Sorry if I pissed anybody off.

I just think its shitty for Kerry to use a wounded soldier as a way to win votes, JUST AS I AGREE THAT Bush shouldn't use photos of kids hugging him on ground zero to win votes. Had I seen the republican ad I would have made the same post about it. All of these political ads are scummy, this one was just over the top for me.
 
Sanosuke

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The statistics I read for being FOR the war show about 55% to 45% in favor, which is pretty damn close and not a good sign for the war. HOWEVER, Bush's support IS in fact approximatley 4:1 in favor of Bush.
Who knows who voted on that statistic.. seriously statistics are garbage. .I mean all the online polls ive seen like msn one and most the news ones have kerry ahead.. not by much but the msn one has over a million votes which is higher than most polls ive seen.. also I assume you are talking about that usatoday polll that stated bush was on top 4-1.. it was done with a whoping 4000 people.. hardly a poll imoh
 
Sanosuke

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Hey I wasn't trying to offend any of you guys in the military. Everybody can have their opinions, especially you guys. Sorry if I pissed anybody off.

I just think its shitty for Kerry to use a wounded soldier as a way to win votes, JUST AS I AGREE THAT Bush shouldn't use photos of kids hugging him on ground zero to win votes. Had I seen the republican ad I would have made the same post about it. All of these political ads are scummy, this one was just over the top for me.
politics is always like this.. bush i believe has even more negative kerry ads than kerry has about bush .. either way its nothing new.. TV in oct has always been flooding with ads of people in office badmouthing each other
 

INFOHAZARD

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The statistics I read for being FOR the war show about 55% to 45% in favor, which is pretty damn close and not a good sign for the war. HOWEVER, Bush's support IS in fact approximatley 4:1 in favor of Bush.

On a base, you'll find the attitudes of the active duty members, but don't forget the opinions of the dependent families. They often have a perspective that is significantly different.
 
kwyckemynd00

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On a base, you'll find the attitudes of the active duty members, but don't forget the opinions of the dependent families. They often have a perspective that is significantly different.
Oh yeah, the families, especially mothers and wives, are not 4:1. I'm sure at the most their 50/50. If they swing slightly toward bush or slightly toward Kerry, I woudln't be suprised either way. Nobody likes it when their loved ones are sent off into a war, especially when the war is unpopular. Their biggest concern is getting their loved ones home and keeping them alive. They stop rationalizing the reason for being there (which is a debatable topic I don't even want to get into!!)
 

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