Could a guy like this become President?

Page 2 of 2 First 12

  1. Quote Originally Posted by INFOHAZARD
    Except that scientists should set the science agenda and Christians should set the Christian agenda. Creationism belongs in Sunday School, not science class. The last time religion ran the science aganda, the sun orbited the earth which was the center of the universe (a superficially logical theory which had been in vogue for thousands of years). Galaleo had to recant the heretical theory.


    Or, as noted on The Simpsons:
    Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion.
    Evolution has as much part of a religion as does creationism..Athiesm. Let me give you some popular reading for you about evolutions lack of factual evidence to back it up (and mind you these books were written by people who are not creationists) Darwins black box by behe, and Evolution: Theory in crisis. Yes creationism should be taught in school so children arent force fed whatever BS their teachers spit in their direction!
    Dick


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Funny Monkey
    ^^^ Ok not going to lie I didnt know catholics taught that. That doesnt show any ignorance on my part. I am not a Catholic. I never claimed to know anythign about Catholicism.

    The law of Thermodynamics doesn't even come close to a comparison to evolution. How is it that law of thermo not provable. I know through a lot of my electrical studies that the law of thermo is indeed true. Because I can observe that. Did any one observe evolution?

    You don't identify with Catholisism? Well your religion didn't even exist when Galaleo was facing the Inquisition. Your religion spawned from Mother Catholicism, initially with Martin Luther a few years after Galaleo, and from there the incredible diversity of beliefs that came from that, as the Inquisition was beat down.

    Think about it- there was a recent time your religion did not exist. Given that, how universal could it possibly be?


    Evolution in our times? Sure. Prokayotes evolve incredibly quickly. Antibiotic resistance occurs in just a couple of years.

    Eukaryotes are a bit more complex, but there are some obvious examples:

    People whose ancestors come from towns in Europe ravaged by the bubonic plague are much more likely to be long-term survivors of HIV, or even to be immune to it. The allele that let specific individual survive the plague do the same for HIV. Go Figure.

    Over a somewhat longer timeframe, the mechanism of skin color (amount of melanin) as seen stratified with latitude has been made clear. Too little sunlight penitrating the skin and there is inadequate vitamin D. Too much sunlight penetrating the skin and there is inadequate folate. Both problems cause severe birth defects. 100,000 yars ago, all our ancestors were black. when the diaspora left the horn of Africa into Yemen(as deduced from mitchondrial DNA analysis) and spread worldwide from there, it took about 20- 30,000 years for the skin color to adjust to a given climate.

    Heck, we even know what African tribe all us "non-Africans" came from. They're still there on the shores of Ethiopia. Our mitochondrial DNA matches, accounting for for the expected mutation rate, an analysis of which gives the 90,000 year mark for the diaspora.
    ----------------
    There is a tribe with unambiguous negroid features in Zimbabwe. They claim two things, that they are the builders of the fantastic ruins to be found there and that they are Israelites. They do have traditions that are clearly related to the Jewish traditions. They have something else- genetic alleles found only among the "Cohen" line of Jewish ancestory. They are, indeed one of the lost tribes. It can be calculated the time that has passed since this branch split from the main Jewish population by the number of mutations that are different. It jibes with what is known of that era in judeaic history. Why Negroid features? You tell me.

    Then there are the models developed based on modern evolutionary theory. The computer programs that now solve some of the most complex problems there are, are called "genetic algorithms." They are based on modern evolutionary theory and they are incredibly powerful..

    Then there is the most obvious example of evolution in action- not genetics, but memetics. Memetics is the study of belief and culture as having the same structue as a gene in the passing information . A meme is simply a belief as it tries to survive in the world of other beliefs that are competing with it.

    Look at how christianity has changed in the last 30 years as it engages in competition with the meme of the scientific method in the battle for the wetware turf. There's almost nothing in the universe of Christianity that wasn't there 30 years ago, but look at which sects (belief systems) have dominated the political landscape in comparison with 30 years ago. Very different.

    Islam has done similar in response to Standard Oil, Pepsi Cola and Brittany Spears. The first suicide bomber couldn't have been more than 30 years ago. Now it's on the forefront of the war because it has worked so far to advance the cause.

    Evolution in action.

    Isn't it a gas to realize that your mind is the turf that ideas (as organisms) duke it out with each other over.

    When the Church tells you to support God, it is really telling you to support the meme of the Church, which is nothing at all like the real God. The Valentinian Gnostics were right. Your god is not God, it's just the Demiurge that demands your worship to feed it.

    You're just a ****ing TOOL for an IDEA that only came into existence what, 300 years ago?.

    And I have no doubt that you will fight to the death to protect your demiurge.

    Cheers.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Funny Monkey
    As far as the church and the state thing. Yeah I see it your way and no I don't. Why did people come over on the Mayflower? If you dont know the correct answer to that then it seems you have been the one that has lended an ear to propoganda.
    The Mayflower was over 150 years before the Constituion. Do not conflate the two.

    I have, in fact been swayed by Jefferson's propaganda and the bias exemplified in the Treaty of Tripoli.

    Damn proud of it, too.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by dickwootton
    Evolution has as much part of a religion as does creationism..Athiesm. Let me give you some popular reading for you about evolutions lack of factual evidence to back it up (and mind you these books were written by people who are not creationists) Darwins black box by behe, and Evolution: Theory in crisis. Yes creationism should be taught in school so children arent force fed whatever BS their teachers spit in their direction!
    Dick

    If they are not creationsits and thy are not evolutionists, would you care to enlighten us on just what their position actually is?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by INFOHAZARD
    You don't identify with Catholisism? Well your religion didn't even exist when Galaleo was facing the Inquisition. Your religion spawned from Mother Catholicism, initially with Martin Luther a few years after Galaleo, and from there the incredible diversity of beliefs that came from that, as the Inquisition was beat down.

    Think about it- there was a recent time your religion did not exist. Given that, how universal could it possibly be?


    Evolution in our times? Sure. Prokayotes evolve incredibly quickly. Antibiotic resistance occurs in just a couple of years.

    Eukaryotes are a bit more complex, but there are some obvious examples:

    People whose ancestors come from towns in Europe ravaged by the bubonic plague are much more likely to be long-term survivors of HIV, or even to be immune to it. The allele that let specific individual survive the plague do the same for HIV. Go Figure.

    Over a somewhat longer timeframe, the mechanism of skin color (amount of melanin) as seen stratified with latitude has been made clear. Too little sunlight penitrating the skin and there is inadequate vitamin D. Too much sunlight penetrating the skin and there is inadequate folate. Both problems cause severe birth defects. 100,000 yars ago, all our ancestors were black. when the diaspora left the horn of Africa into Yemen(as deduced from mitchondrial DNA analysis) and spread worldwide from there, it took about 20- 30,000 years for the skin color to adjust to a given climate.

    Heck, we even know what African tribe all us "non-Africans" came from. They're still there on the shores of Ethiopia. Our mitochondrial DNA matches, accounting for for the expected mutation rate, an analysis of which gives the 90,000 year mark for the diaspora.
    ----------------
    There is a tribe with unambiguous negroid features in Zimbabwe. They claim two things, that they are the builders of the fantastic ruins to be found there and that they are Israelites. They do have traditions that are clearly related to the Jewish traditions. They have something else- genetic alleles found only among the "Cohen" line of Jewish ancestory. They are, indeed one of the lost tribes. It can be calculated the time that has passed since this branch split from the main Jewish population by the number of mutations that are different. It jibes with what is known of that era in judeaic history. Why Negroid features? You tell me.

    Then there are the models developed based on modern evolutionary theory. The computer programs that now solve some of the most complex problems there are, are called "genetic algorithms." They are based on modern evolutionary theory and they are incredibly powerful..

    Then there is the most obvious example of evolution in action- not genetics, but memetics. Memetics is the study of belief and culture as having the same structue as a gene in the passing information . A meme is simply a belief as it tries to survive in the world of other beliefs that are competing with it.

    Look at how christianity has changed in the last 30 years as it engages in competition with the meme of the scientific method in the battle for the wetware turf. There's almost nothing in the universe of Christianity that wasn't there 30 years ago, but look at which sects (belief systems) have dominated the political landscape in comparison with 30 years ago. Very different.

    Islam has done similar in response to Standard Oil, Pepsi Cola and Brittany Spears. The first suicide bomber couldn't have been more than 30 years ago. Now it's on the forefront of the war because it has worked so far to advance the cause.

    Evolution in action.

    Isn't it a gas to realize that your mind is the turf that ideas (as organisms) duke it out with each other over.

    When the Church tells you to support God, it is really telling you to support the meme of the Church, which is nothing at all like the real God. The Valentinian Gnostics were right. Your god is not God, it's just the Demiurge that demands your worship to feed it.

    You're just a ****ing TOOL for an IDEA that only came into existence what, 300 years ago?.

    And I have no doubt that you will fight to the death to protect your demiurge.

    Cheers.
    Ok I am going to start off saying that ifi you havent read the Bible cover to cover than you really can't claim to know what I believe in. My religion does not tell me what to believe. Nobodies should and anybodies that does they shoudl leave that church.
    I take offense to you calling me a tool why don't you attack what I am proposing rather than me personally.
    I do not disagree with your "evidence for evolution" I think that people and animals our very complex things and are wonderfully adaptive organisms. However coudl you please give me your theories on a few questions so that I can see how evolution is a completely plausible scientific theory without the need for supernatural intervention.

    Where did space for the universe come from?
    Where did the laws of the universe come from? (gravity, thermodynamics, physics, etc.)
    How did life come form non-living matter?
    With what did the first living cell capable of reproduction reproduce with? and why woudl it reproduce wouldn't that just make more mouths to feed and therefore lessen it chance of survival?
    Where did matter come form and the energy to organize that matter?

    While you are answering these questions please show how each of your answers are scientifically plausible. If you can then yes evolution is a scientific theory and worthy of being taught to our children as the only scientific theory.

    Thanks
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Funny Monkey
    Ok I am going to start off saying that ifi you havent read the Bible cover to cover than you really can't claim to know what I believe in. My religion does not tell me what to believe. Nobodies should and anybodies that does they shoudl leave that church.
    I take offense to you calling me a tool why don't you attack what I am proposing rather than me personally.
    I do not disagree with your "evidence for evolution" I think that people and animals our very complex things and are wonderfully adaptive organisms. However coudl you please give me your theories on a few questions so that I can see how evolution is a completely plausible scientific theory without the need for supernatural intervention.
    We are ALL tools of our genes and of our memes.

    Where did space for the universe come from?
    Where did the laws of the universe come from? (gravity, thermodynamics, physics, etc.)
    How did life come form non-living matter?
    With what did the first living cell capable of reproduction reproduce with? and why woudl it reproduce wouldn't that just make more mouths to feed and therefore lessen it chance of survival?
    Where did matter come form and the energy to organize that matter?

    While you are answering these questions please show how each of your answers are scientifically plausible. If you can then yes evolution is a scientific theory and worthy of being taught to our children as the only scientific theory.

    Thanks
    I am not YOUR tool, and I do not need to pass your little quiz. Further, most of those questions have nothing to do with evolution. If you are honestly interested in the answers to the questions about evolution, I recommend you look up the term "autocatalytic sets."

  7. Quote Originally Posted by INFOHAZARD
    I am not YOUR tool, and I do not need to pass your little quiz. Further, most of those questions have nothing to do with evolution. If you are honestly interested in the answers to the questions about evolution, I recommend you look up the term "autocatalytic sets."
    To be fair I will check it out.
    How do these questions not deal with evolution? We are talking about the most basic form of it. Where did the earth, matter, and the universe come from. So I am not so sure what kind of evolution you belive in. Still answers to those previos questions from an evoltionist will be just as scientific as coming form a creationist.

    So if we are all tools to our memes wouldnt you be just as right or wrong as I am and therefore cretion is just as plausible as evolution?

  8. I been reading the bible, too. I just opened it up to the page that involved "100 Philistine Foreskins." Oh, man. that one was too much. I'm still waiting for a Christian Heavy Metal band to call itself 100 Philistine Foreskins. Then they can brag that their amp actually delivers 200!

    I was also very interested in the bible's commentary on the Godly intitutution of slavery http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0401/answers.html

    And on when to stone your children to death:
    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 states: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother.....all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.....

    Oh, wait- isn't that Sharia Law?...

    THen the are the internal inconsistencies within the bible itself- hardly the literal word of an omnicient god:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...stencies.shtml


    I also see that there are some fundamentalists in the good old USA who take these scriptures very seriously indeed and have every intent on trashing the Constituition in order to bring slavery and stoning back.
    http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/f...undiewords.htm
    http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=Ne...=5628&abbr=cs_
    http://www.dabney.com/charles/Sandlin-CR.html

    This would all sound wildly crackpot if it weren't for the fact that one S&L fortune heir, a fellow named Howard Ahmanson http://www.joelp.com/americanfundame.../ahmanson.html
    http://blog.au.org/2004/08/mullah_makeover.html
    has given millions towards the following enterprises:

    1)The Late Rev. Rushdoony's Chalcedon Foundation:

    http://www.chalcedon.edu/vision.php
    http://www.chalcedon.edu/credo.php


    They have only recently repudiated the concept of violent overthrow of the Constitution, and frankly, I don't believe them. Neverthelss, they have been using political leverage in a big way of late.


    2) "Ahmanson and Rushdoony were on the board of the Rutherford Institute (run by an attorney named Whitehead) which paid all the legal fees and Court costs to Jones v. Clinton (and the services of the "elves" which included legal advice from Ann Coulter to Paula Jones).
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv.../whitehead.htm
    http://www.rutherford.org/ (they don't mention their board members on their site)

    The Reconstructionists/Dminionists were major background players in the impeachment of Clinton. Their goal is to end Constitutional law in favor of theocratic law.

    3) Ahmanson back in the '80's, bankrolled controlling interest in the original Electronic Voting Machine company. (Sources initially reported that it was Howard, I've seen others more recently state that it was other members of the family... ) That one company has since morphed into the three largest (?competing) voting machine companies. Sen. Chuck Hagel ended up buying the Ahmansons out (go figure... Now he is allegedly out of the business too, but the head of the Senate Ethics Committe resigned the day they gave Hagel a pass on his holdings in a voting machine comapny and not reporting it... He was elected in an upset on his own machines. I don't know much about Hagel, but I sure don't like that).

    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

    Although they do not blow things up, I consider them to be as great an enemy to our Constitution as al Qada is. And do you wonder why you've never heard of them?



    http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=Ne...=6949&abbr=cs_

  9. Well your completely getting off subject.

    Those Bible inconsistencies were quite interesting. Thank you for posting that. I read most of them but do not have time to finish them all. I will have to do that sometime later. Some of them seem pretty weak and you have to ackoledge that sometimes the Bible speaks of physical meaning and then others spriritual, but for lack of more words to describe things in the English language they use the same words to describe different meanings.
    I have had the benefit to be taught under people who are fluent in Hebrew and greek. So most of those arguments have been cleared up already but a few have me thinking and I will have to do further research on them to understand.

    I am a fundamentalist but Old testament law is no longer valid. Anyone that believs the Bible in its entirity can be proven wrong if they think that we need to stone rebellious kids.
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