[Jeff]

Ok, so every time you talk to a hippie (jweave j/k ) about the election, or now since the death of Superman even the sKerry/Edward campain complain about bush and stem cell research

here is the stuff from bush's site

The President's Decision is Based on Ethical Principle
In August 2001, President George W. Bush made a decision about the complex and difficult issue of the Federal government's role in embryonic stem cell research. For the first time ever, he allowed Federal research funds to be used in embryonic stem cell research. The President's decision was based on a determination that we should not cross a fundamental moral line by using Federal funds to encourage or support the destruction of a human embryo.


Bipartisan Support for ethical treatment of human embryos: The principle that human embryos merit respect as a form of human life -- and that the Federal government should not encourage their destruction -- has been accepted on a bipartisan basis for a number of years. Every year since 1996, Congress has adopted legislative language stating that Federal funds may not be used in research involving the destruction of human embryos.


Broad Support Internationally
This principle also receives broad support internationally. Many European countries including France, Germany, Austria, Spain, and Ireland ban altogether the destruction of human embryos to create stem cell lines.

The President Supports Exploring the Promise of Stem Cell Research
President Bush understands the pain of individuals and their families suffering through a terrible illness. The President remains committed to fully exploring the promise and potential of stem cell research without violating ethical principles and while maintaining respect for all human life. In keeping with this commitment, the Administration:

* Provided FY03 funding of $24.8 million for human embryonic stem cell research, an increase of 132 percent from FY02.
o In FY03 the Administration provided $190.7 million for human non-embryonic stem cells (adult stem cells, including those from cord blood, placenta, and bone marrow).
o The Bush Administration was the first to provide Federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.
* Revised NIH rules regarding the segregation of private and publicly-funded research, which has enabled researchers to participate in privately-funded stem cell research without compromising their ability to receive NIH funding from separate projects.
* Funds three research centers to promote multi-disciplinary research on embryonic stem cells. Nine intramural labs at NIH are now involved in embryonic stem cell research. Some of these researchers are engaged in a project to comprehensively analyze the properties of the stem cell lines that are eligible for Federal funding, which will provide researchers with valuable information.
* Developed five training courses to help American scientists acquire the needed skills and techniques to culture embryonic stem cell lines and a special educational fellowship to encourage young researchers to enter the field.

The State of Embryonic Stem Cell Science
The lines available for Federal funding, and the other lines used in private research, are being employed to address the basic biologic questions that must be answered before the cells can be used in human therapies. It is not possible for any researcher to say with certainty whether additional lines will produce effective treatments for any disease.

* The President developed a policy that will allow us to explore the promise of stem-cell research, and do so in a way that doesn't cross a clear moral threshold.
* We are still at a phase where we are conducting the basic research so that we can better understand the promise of stem-cell research. There's a lot we don't know at this point.
* We all advocate finding a cure for Alzheimer's and many other diseases. There are embryonic stem cells available for research, and adult stem cell research holds great promise as well.

Number of Lines Available for Federal Funding
The Administration has also worked to make stem cell lines widely available to interested researchers.

* 78 derivations of human embryonic stem cells meet the criteria established by the President and listed on the NIH Registry, although since the announcement 16 of these derivations failed to grow into lines that would be usable for research.
* All 78 derivations are privately owned by research companies or institutions. However, with assistance from NIH, owners of 19 of the lines have agreed to make their lines available for use at cost by researchers in the U.S. or abroad. Four other derivations are being developed into lines today and will be available in the near future for Federal funding. Still others are being preserved by their owners until the science develops further. No other country in the world has made as many stem cell lines widely available.
* Researchers in the United States and abroad are taking advantage of the opportunity to use these lines. As of February 2004, 409 shipments of stem cell lines from the NIH Registry have been sent to researchers for their use in projects such as efforts to unravel the signals that make stem cells unique and research to better understand how stem cells can be used to treat Parkinson's disease.
* The National Institutes of Health plans to spend $18 million over four years to establish three "centers of excellence," which will speed research on the currently available cell lines.

Private and State Funding for Embryonic Stem Cell Research is Available
The President's policy places no obstacles in the path of private or state funding of stem cell research - researchers are receiving support from both, in addition to support from the Federal government.

* One study, based on 2002 data, reports that private sector research and development in stem cells was being conducted by approximately 1000 scientists in over 30 firms. Aggregate spending was estimated at $208 million (Lysaght, J.J. and Hazlehurst, A.L.., "Private Sector Development of Stem Technology and Therapeutic Cloning" Tissues Engineering 9(3): 555-561 (2003)). Geron Corporation alone has reported that it spent more that $70 million on stem cell research by September 2003.
* In the Stem Cell Business News Guide to Stem Cell Companies (Feb 2003), 61 U.S. and international companies are listed as pursuing some form of research or therapeutic product development involving stem cells.
* Just recently, Harvard University announced that it has raised private funds to create a stem cell institute and to make 17 new lines available to researchers.
* Some states ban the destruction of human embryonic stem cells for research. Some permit it but don't fund it (consistent with Federal policy). And others provide funding.
* As with most medical research, the effort to explore the promise of this science and to develop treatments and cures will require the combined efforts of both the public and private sector.

Please enlighten me on what is so wrong with this policy, what would be better.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Ok, so every time you talk to a hippie (jweave j/k ) about the election, or now since the death of Superman even the sKerry/Edward campain complain about bush and stem cell research

here is the stuff from bush's site


Please enlighten me on what is so wrong with this policy, what would be better.

Free money.

[Jeff]

Just a few facts on stem cell research to keep in mind for tonight when John Kerry asserts that we are close to a cure but the President is standing in the way.

The "real deal" on stems cell research is that whether it is embryonic or adult stem cells the scientists are not trying to discover cures with stem cells at the present time, but are trying to see if the possibility of cures can come from stem cells. In countries that currently fund embryonic stem cell research (Israel, England, South Korea) and have since the 1990's few tangible gains and zero cures have been achieved. We must not forget that privately and state funded research in the US is legal and that the President is the first president, including Bill Clinton, to authorize any federal funding of stem cell research.

[DieTrying]

In a speech two nights ago, John Edwards made one of the most ignorant claims that I've heard in a while. Bascially he feels that President Bush is part to blame for the death of Christopher Reeves. In his idiot opinion, he says that the development of stem cell research would be much farther along, and Reeves didn't have to die.

My God, people have been studying the spinal cord for years!

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by DieTrying

In a speech two nights ago, John Edwards made one of the most ignorant claims that I've heard in a while. Bascially he feels that President Bush is part to blame for the death of Christopher Reeves. In his idiot opinion, he says that the development of stem cell research would be much farther along, and Reeves didn't have to die.

My God, people have been studying the spinal cord for years!

you're right, that's about the most ignorant thing he could say and it's probably a new low for him. I'm waiting for the kerry camp to claim that President Bush could have prevented the sinking of the Titanic because they blame him for everything else.

[kwyckemynd00]

It doesn't matter...people are soooo stupid that this **** that Edwards and Kerry imply (or have even said) about Reeves and the like walking and being alive if it weren't for Bush that they actually believe it! I'm gonna move to Japan and let the Americans have John Kerry and John Edwards! The ****ing media is sooooo messed up it's ridiculous. I'm just going to stop right here....I'm soo ****ing pissed! I hate people, I hate people, and I hate people any more. I think people should qualify (via testing) to be a voter, honestly. Then the uneducated who are political pawns can't advance these ridiculous peoples' agenda by believing their ridiculous claims and promises! OH well...what's 4 years? Well, probably 8 considering Kerry will inherit a growing economy, with high home ownership, increasing education scores, etc. All he has to do is sit back and let the policies keep doing what they're doing, return in 4 years with more of his lies and he'll be in for 8! Grrr.....

[jarhead]

I have been preaching to the guys at work forever how there should be a voter registration test kwyckmynd. I'm with you there. How many people who know nothing about the issues are gonna be channel surfing and see 30 seconds of a kerry commercial and base their vote on that? Yeah it's our RIGHT to vote but it's also our RESPONSIBILITY to educate ourselves about the issues. The system needs an enema.

[CDB]

A voter registration test is an excedingly bad idea. It would be wonderful if it could work, but it won't. The test itself will be administered by the government, the same government that screws up everything else it touches. There's a reason why so many people in this country don't understand the first thing about economics: the government controls the majority of the schools and teaches nonsense. There's a reason why most people couldn't even form a reasonable explanation of what the scientific process is: because the government controls the schools, and to a certain extent through funding the actual science. Let there be a voter registration test and it will necessarily be slanted towards only allowing people who agree with incumbents to vote.

Asking for a test is passing the buck. Get out there and educate the public if you think they're so damn ignorant. In a very significant way by wanting such a test you guys are no different than that public you despise so much. Something's wrong? You want the government to do something about it, which is the call of every other person in the country whenever anything displeases them. Why don't you do something about it?

[Physicist]

I have to agree with CDB. After the 15th amendment, voter tests were used to keep black men from voting. They'd do something similiar if they were revived.
I can't imagine any commision or department of the goverment being able to make a fair test.

[houseman]

Question: 5 * 5

IF they can answer that then they get the right to vote.

[BigBadBootyDady]

How about just having to know who the candidates are? Sean Hannity recently interviewed a few Kerry supporters and half couldn't answer who he was running with. Forget about when he asked them to name one thing he did during his 20 years in the senate.

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by CDB

A voter registration test is an excedingly bad idea. It would be wonderful if it could work, but it won't. The test itself will be administered by the government, the same government that screws up everything else it touches. There's a reason why so many people in this country don't understand the first thing about economics: the government controls the majority of the schools and teaches nonsense. There's a reason why most people couldn't even form a reasonable explanation of what the scientific process is: because the government controls the schools, and to a certain extent through funding the actual science. Let there be a voter registration test and it will necessarily be slanted towards only allowing people who agree with incumbents to vote.

Asking for a test is passing the buck. Get out there and educate the public if you think they're so damn ignorant. In a very significant way by wanting such a test you guys are no different than that public you despise so much. Something's wrong? You want the government to do something about it, which is the call of every other person in the country whenever anything displeases them. Why don't you do something about it?

First of all the whole test thing was said tongue in cheek. It's an INDIVIDUALS responsibility to educate himself. Not just voting for the guy with the hottest daughters(bush) who you know nothing about just to excercise your right to vote. That was my whole point. You're honestly going to call me out on this by suggesting that there aren't people that are ignorant on the important issues? Do you know how many people will vote for kerry just because certain musicians or actors are against Bush? Or how many hippies will vote against bush JUST because we are at war while he's the president and they're tree hugging pacifists? Don't give me that crap about the government controlling schools as an excuse to be uneducated. And the whole thing was said as a smart ass comment yet you've already decided that the government will corrupt the testing procedure? Lighten up. You don't have to understand economic science to make a somewhat knowledgeable decision on who you're voting for. And as far as me "getting out there and educating the public" that I apparently despise- that's laughable. Believe me I would love to but unfortunately my current duties of working so i can feed my fat ass and pay my bills prevents me from talking to the millions of americans on the importance of using your vote wisely.

[custom]

The whole thing about stem cell research is that it can be fully funded by the government, without the destruction of human embreyos, which I am certainly opposed against. The reason is, a woman's unmillical cord contains hoards os stem cells that can be harvested right after birth with. This would otherwise be thrown out with the afterbirth/placenta/whatever, but it can be kept for research. The obstacle is women, for some reason, do not want to dontae it. It's like they're saying "No that is MY umbillical cord. Got cut up an aborted fetus instead. Or better yet, destroy some embreyos" I mean, come on, people. The pure stupidity of this makes my sick.

[Jeff]

That wasn't even an option that was posed to us with our last child (a year and a half ago). The asked us if we wanted to keep the cord blood. What the hell am I going to do with it, put it in the freezer? My wife and I would have be glad to donate it for medical research.

[Brodus]

the government controls the majority of the schools and teaches nonsense.

Are you talking about high schools or public universities, too? B/C although it is publically funded, the university system is really the last venue for un-impaired discourse on any subject matter, so I don't see them teaching nonsense. There was no "government control" at any of the Universities I've attended...quite the opposite, it's where I learned to think for myself and analyze for myself.

RE: Stem Cells, I was aware of the Umbilical thing. The issue is they're trying to tie it with "Pro-Choice" platform, and also purposefully hoping to establish legislature which defines the fetus as nothing important. If it were only about getting stem cells, you'd wonder "why introduce embryos into the debate?"

If you don't think there are agendas behind both sides, you're blind. At it's heart, its a fight ove the definition and meaning of life. The worst case scenario is unpriveleged welfare mother fetus farming...sure, sounds crazy, but Harvard just applied for permission to perform tests on Embryos, so the pieces are in place.

RE: Voter Registration Tests-->The sad part is only 1/2 the people in the country vote. If we had tests, they would be skewed, and even less would vote.

Apathy and laziness have become ubiquitous-->When people are dying, why is Paris Hilton on the front page? IMO we are the new Babylon, the new Roman Empire, etc., and our excesses and the results of our indulgences will only serve to prove universal truisms. "Doing Something about it" is what inspired, smart people do...the other 85% are going home to watch "their shows" and giggle about whos ahead in the Nielsen ratings. You could stand on the street with a sandwich board of universal truth, and most people would walk past and joke with their dumb**** elevator buddies about the "crazy guy" outside, while sipping a corporate coffee and dancing the mass media jig all the way to the voting booth...not becuase they have been conditioned to do it, but because they have conditioned themselves by being lazy slaves to their impulses who are unable to harness their willpower.

[kwyckemynd00]

Originally Posted by CDB

A voter registration test is an excedingly bad idea. It would be wonderful if it could work, but it won't. The test itself will be administered by the government, the same government that screws up everything else it touches. ....

Well, I thought my idea was a good one until I read this statement. Then you reminded me of exactly why I'm a small government conservative