Election of 2012....Who ya got?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Then let's just agree to respectfully disagree with each other. Although, I really don't think we have a disagreement abount political philosophy, but rather, Obama's agenda. And that's ok really.
    Yeah, seems like that, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    You might personally agree with him Ax, but he does not resonate with that base, which was evident with his 9-11 comments and the crowd reaction. He has no shot.
    I think his down fall was not entirely with the criticism of US foreign policy and the roots of 9-11, but also the comment that we do not give palestinians fair treatment. That is such a taboo subject especially (for some reason) if you believe they are in fact being mistreated which he alluded to. Which is ballsy. I'm not completely sure if all his radical ideas would work or not in our current society, but I'd vote for him in a heart beat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    I think his down fall was not entirely with the criticism of US foreign policy and the roots of 9-11, but also the comment that we do not give palestinians fair treatment. That is such a taboo subject especially (for some reason) if you believe they are in fact being mistreated which he alluded to. Which is ballsy. I'm not completely sure if all his radical ideas would work or not in our current society, but I'd vote for him in a heart beat.
    Why would you think his ideas are radical? His ideas are make the most sense. All the other candidates are pro-war which is extremely radical to me.

    I dont think Im really asking you a question, so you dont have to answer...just my point of view.

    To me, talking economics without addressing ending all the wars and military industrial complex is very radical...all the candidates appear to be guilty of this besides Ron Paul. Ron Paul's idea's are the norm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Why would you think his ideas are radical? His ideas are make the most sense. All the other candidates are pro-war which is extremely radical to me.

    I dont think Im really asking you a question, so you dont have to answer...just my point of view.

    To me, talking economics without addressing ending all the wars and military industrial complex is very radical...all the candidates appear to be guilty of this besides Ron Paul. Ron Paul's idea's are the norm.
    I over stated when I said all his views. Specifically the ending of both wars would be great. I'm most referring to ending the IRS which sounds great, and has potential in theory, but would be a huge change. Oh also hearing the truth from polititians would be a huge change
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    Yeah I agree and I'd vote for Ron Paul in a heart beat, too. I personally dont think the war is necessary and since we're only getting a very small amount of our oil from the middle east I dont even think we have good reason to be over there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Yeah I agree and I'd vote for Ron Paul in a heart beat, too. I personally dont think the war is necessary and since we're only getting a very small amount of our oil from the middle east I dont even think we have good reason to be over there.
    We have enough oil in Dakota and Montana alone to take us completely out of debt and also give Americans enough oil until at least 2040.

    The wars arent about protecting the oil supply for America...the wars are about (partly about, but wont get into it here) profiting off the oil thats exported throught the world.
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    Wait wait wait....wait

    I thought we were liberating the afghans from the taliban and looking for bin laden all this time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    Wait wait wait....wait

    I thought we were liberating the afghans from the taliban and looking for bin laden all this time.
    Thats right, and we still are. Sorry, We should find him any day now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Thats right, and we still are. Sorry, We should find him any day now.
    And soon as Saddam's out of power and we find the WMDs we can bring our troops home from there too. See Ax why are you such a pessimist
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    We have enough oil in Dakota and Montana alone to take us completely out of debt and also give Americans enough oil until at least 2040.

    The wars arent about protecting the oil supply for America...the wars are about (partly about, but wont get into it here) profiting off the oil thats exported throught the world.
    yea I know. When one looks at all the excuses the government has given to be over there one can see something doesn't add up.

    -Taliban isn't a real threat anymore. Sure, they might be able to do a sneak attack on us again but no more or less than they could 10 years ago.

    -W. finished his daddy's work from years ago, so thats not a reason.

    -We only pull maybe 4% of our oil supply from that region anyways. Hmmm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    -Taliban isn't a real threat anymore. Sure, they might be able to do a sneak attack on us again but no more or less than they could 10 years ago.

    -W. finished his daddy's work from years ago, so thats not a reason.

    -We only pull maybe 4% of our oil supply from that region anyways. Hmmm...
    Well, it is their land..Im not sticking up for them as a people but Im sure if China was building bases in Texas China would be getting sneak attacks too.
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    If Ron won the election who would be his VP? Hopefully not his son.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    If Ron won the election who would be his VP? Hopefully not his son.

    I think Bob Barr is someone to look into for his VP and would potentially be legitimate, although I have to look into it more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    I completely agree! if Obama gets another term in I'll be gone from this country for good by the end of his 2nd term. By then this country will have "crossed the threshold" into a socialist state and will likely never return to natural rights philosophy, which is what this country was founded upon via the constitution. Everything that makes this country great will disappear into the past if we keep moving in this direction. Perhaps I'll get lucky and another country will embrace our constitution in it's original purpose and form when all of this goes down.
    I'm goin with bro.

    The scary part is it's not just Obama, it's a whole slew of them that want to 'fundamentally transform' our country into a socialistic state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    I'm goin with bro.

    The scary part is it's not just Obama, it's a whole slew of them that want to 'fundamentally transform' our country into a socialistic state.
    I hate to disagree, but I do not see the socialist thing at all. In fact, I see quite the opposite. TO me, the Obama admin, is an extension of the previous 8 years, more like Bush III
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I hate to disagree, but I do not see the socialist thing at all. In fact, I see quite the opposite. TO me, the Obama admin, is an extension of the previous 8 years, more like Bush III
    Everybody is just going by the marketing instead of the policies...I agree with AE14, Obama is not socialist in any way, Obama= Bush's 3rd term. Look at what they do, not what they say.
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    Perhaps I misused socialism, which is my own ignorance.

    My point is to agree with what he said about not only this administration, but most in power these days. Everyone wants a globally connected whatever, one world currency, one world gov't.
    That is a truly scary road to be traveling down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I hate to disagree, but I do not see the socialist thing at all. In fact, I see quite the opposite. TO me, the Obama admin, is an extension of the previous 8 years, more like Bush III
    O kept almost everyone on staff from W's team. He grants the republicans everything they ask for (up until this last weekend). I'm not even sure he's a democrat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    I'm not even sure he's a democrat.
    He is corporatist.
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    So Donald Trump might run as an independent should they chooses the "wrong" GOP to run...I know Trump is meeting up with Perry tonight for whatever reason.
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    Trump is too funny. This is such a show at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I hate to disagree, but I do not see the socialist thing at all. In fact, I see quite the opposite. TO me, the Obama admin, is an extension of the previous 8 years, more like Bush III
    Agreed.I just don`t see the socialism that is all the buzz amongst the Republicans and FoxNews.Obama just seems like business as usual to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conagher

    Agreed.I just don`t see the socialism that is all the buzz amongst the Republicans and FoxNews.Obama just seems like business as usual to me.
    Seriously....sadly they all seem like that. The party lines are truly blurred.
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    I just want you Ron Paul supporters to be aware of 1 thing...

    do not get excited and emotional if he wins.

    for several reasons...

    1st...he needs to finally be put to the test.

    2nd...he has to deal with congress and the house, he refuses to abuse is executive order powers that have been established by bush and obama, therefore everything will be a long process and most in congress and the house may disagree with him

    3rd....it will be short lived...4 years, 8 years tops then what? back to business as usual I bet with the next president.

    Im just saying, dont get all emotional, It happened with me w/ Obama, and after a couple of months he flipped flopped on every campaign promise. Im not saying this will happen to Ron Paul, I almost feel confident (I will never put my trust completely in any politician) Ron Paul is true to what he believes, but we still have to deal with issue 2 and 3 that I posted.
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    Well said
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I just want you Ron Paul supporters to be aware of 1 thing...

    do not get excited and emotional if he wins.

    for several reasons...

    1st...he needs to finally be put to the test.

    2nd...he has to deal with congress and the house, he refuses to abuse is executive order powers that have been established by bush and obama, therefore everything will be a long process and most in congress and the house may disagree with him

    3rd....it will be short lived...4 years, 8 years tops then what? back to business as usual I bet with the next president.

    Im just saying, dont get all emotional, It happened with me w/ Obama, and after a couple of months he flipped flopped on every campaign promise. Im not saying this will happen to Ron Paul, I almost feel confident (I will never put my trust completely in any politician) Ron Paul is true to what he believes, but we still have to deal with issue 2 and 3 that I posted.
    Dont worry, he is not winning anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Dont worry, he is not winning anything
    I agree, after Ron Paul earn his right to be president, he will end the wars and will not win the Nobel Peace prize the way Obama did for expanding them. "War is Peace"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I agree, after Ron Paul earn his right to be president, he will end the wars and will not win the Nobel Peace prize the way Obama did for expanding them. "War is Peace"
    thank you for the good laugh AX.

    In all honesty, you seem like a bright guy, I dont get how you support him. Certain policies make sense no doubt, but his isolationist philosophy as well as his "constitutionalist" thought wont work in a global economy. The world is much different than our founding parents had it, so using their policies in silly. Furthermore, Ron probably would have been good in the 18th century, but he is completely outdated. Being an isolationist cant work considering our current problems. The more I hear him speak, the more I wish he would stop.

    With that said, I dont like any options. My vote will depend upon the Repub ticket. If they throw out a Perry/Palin or Perry/Jindal then my vote swings to Obama. If they put out a Romney/Huntsman or even Romney/Rubio I am going that way.

    edit: the other thing too that I dont get with Paul supporters, he is a friggin career politician. What is it, 25+ years in the same spot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    thank you for the good laugh AX.

    In all honesty, you seem like a bright guy, I dont get how you support him. Certain policies make sense no doubt, but his isolationist philosophy as well as his "constitutionalist" thought wont work in a global economy. The world is much different than our founding parents had it, so using their policies in silly. Furthermore, Ron probably would have been good in the 18th century, but he is completely outdated. Being an isolationist cant work considering our current problems. The more I hear him speak, the more I wish he would stop.

    With that said, I dont like any options. My vote will depend upon the Repub ticket. If they throw out a Perry/Palin or Perry/Jindal then my vote swings to Obama. If they put out a Romney/Huntsman or even Romney/Rubio I am going that way.

    edit: the other thing too that I dont get with Paul supporters, he is a friggin career politician. What is it, 25+ years in the same spot?
    I appreciate you liking my humor from time to time, I do not indeed believe Ron Paul will win the election....some chance but I wouldnt even put a $5 bet on it. I do dislike how our media is portraying him to be on the back of the line when he is on top, or winning the online debate polls.

    Ron Paul isnt using the founding fathers as the basis of his economic policy. Ron Paul incorporates Austrian Economics in his political agenda Austrian School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    His support for the founding fathers would help our economy in ways of our monetary system (end federal reserve, stop printing money out of thin air) the trillions wasted on wars, bad political policy such as war on drugs, unlimited expansion of government, etc..

    To be any candidate who doesnt call for the immediate end of the wars cannot be taken seriously in my eyes in regards to economic policy.

    I know he is a career politician 25+ years, but he is a consistent career politician. Ive been watching video's of his from the 80's and he is the same as he is today. As I have warned in a few previous posts, even if he wins I wouldnt suggest his supporters getting emotional over the victory as I clearly warn he needs to be truly tested should he be president.

    I do not agree with all of Ron Paul's views on government. I personally wouldnt mind supporting and paying taxes on true non-corporate socialist idea's, and true universal health care/social security...I however do not trust government any longer to run such socialist policies and I would prefer to have government out of my life as much as possible from here on.

    Im not sure how you think he is such an isolationist...it seems that may be inaccurate unless Im misunderstanding what you meant by that. Ron Paul is very open to talks and trading with every country including Cuba and Iran. To me he seems less of an isolationist than all our current politicians.


    edit: Ill add, if Ron Paul is not in, I do not feel it is even in my ethics to even vote for anybody, unless Ralph Nader runs again Ill vote for him believe it or not.
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    Its seems like nobody is exceptionally thrilled with anyone. If other states have been bold enough to elect an independent, how long before the whole country would be willing to? At least for myself, I'd vote independent if it didn't mean it would put the safety of our country in jeopardy. 2008 I would have given my Obama vote to an independent or another party if Palin wasn't so bat sh!t crazy, which appears to be what other people are frightened of. Fear of the lesser of two evils losing by one vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I appreciate you liking my humor from time to time, I do not indeed believe Ron Paul will win the election....some chance but I wouldnt even put a $5 bet on it. I do dislike how our media is portraying him to be on the back of the line when he is on top, or winning the online debate polls.

    Ron Paul isnt using the founding fathers as the basis of his economic policy. Ron Paul incorporates Austrian Economics in his political agenda Austrian School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    His support for the founding fathers would help our economy in ways of our monetary system (end federal reserve, stop printing money out of thin air) the trillions wasted on wars, bad political policy such as war on drugs, unlimited expansion of government, etc..

    To be any candidate who doesnt call for the immediate end of the wars cannot be taken seriously in my eyes in regards to economic policy.

    I know he is a career politician 25+ years, but he is a consistent career politician. Ive been watching video's of his from the 80's and he is the same as he is today. As I have warned in a few previous posts, even if he wins I wouldnt suggest his supporters getting emotional over the victory as I clearly warn he needs to be truly tested should he be president.

    I do not agree with all of Ron Paul's views on government. I personally wouldnt mind supporting and paying taxes on true non-corporate socialist idea's, and true universal health care/social security...I however do not trust government any longer to run such socialist policies and I would prefer to have government out of my life as much as possible from here on.

    Im not sure how you think he is such an isolationist...it seems that may be inaccurate unless Im misunderstanding what you meant by that. Ron Paul is very open to talks and trading with every country including Cuba and Iran. To me he seems less of an isolationist than all our current politicians.


    edit: Ill add, if Ron Paul is not in, I do not feel it is even in my ethics to even vote for anybody, unless Ralph Nader runs again Ill vote for him believe it or not.
    The only thing I will add, is that Ron Paul is consistent. That might not be such a good thing, especially with ideas that wont work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    The only thing I will add, is that Ron Paul is consistent. That might not be such a good thing, especially with ideas that wont work.
    Can you specify what ideas your referring to that you believe wouldnt work?
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Bachman irritates the hell out of me.I just cannot take a woman running for President seriously.Maybe it`s just me and my caveman thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conagher View Post
    Bachman irritates the hell out of me.I just cannot take a woman running for President seriously.Maybe it`s just me and my caveman thinking.
    I dont think Bachman's problem is that she is a woman....Bachman's problem is that she is Michelle Bachman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    I dont think Bachman's problem is that she is a woman....Bachman's problem is that she is Michelle Bachman.
    It's her doing free association for all her speeches that's the problem
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    It's her doing free association for all her speeches that's the problem
    She has a rare allergic reaction to ink. Palin tried teaching her that one but unfortunately nothing could be done.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Did you hear her recent ramblings how the HPV vaccine that she is all over Perry for, causes mental retardation? Good god, how can anyone take her seriously? She is a friggin nightmare, and might make Palin look intelligent
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Did you hear her recent ramblings how the HPV vaccine that she is all over Perry for, causes mental retardation? Good god, how can anyone take her seriously? She is a friggin nightmare, and might make Palin look intelligent
    Im not a fan of Perry using an executive order to mandate a vaccine, but if she was president she would at least give some late night TV show hosts an unlimited supply of material.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Well, another debate that Ron Paul dominates down the books.

    Fox News
    Friday, September 23, 2011

    The screenshot below shows results from a Fox News poll on who won the debate last night. Once again Ron Paul emerges as the winner, with close to 40% of over 70,000 votes.

    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    AX please take the blinders off. Online polls are like straw polls, utterly useless. How many of the Paul cult do you think sit there and actually vote over and over again? Probably most. Face it, he is not going to win. The right will never vote for him, and his base is too inconsistent to actually make it to the polls. He will be gone after a few primaries like most.

    The interesting thing to me was Perry's fall and Huntsman making slight gains (actually in double digits in NH). Perry looks awful, and might not last with his debate performances.

    Although, it might not matter, as the rumor mill is starting to move quickly that Mitch Daniels has convinced Chris Christie to run. Being a public employee in NJ, that makes me laugh
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