Election of 2012....Who ya got?
- 08-16-2011, 09:01 PM
The idea that you can design a test that measures exactly how good the teacher is doing is not something I buy in the least bit. I see kids who are all A's in junior high turn into high school dropouts. We get warned of problem kids all the time, and sometimes they come into high school and flourish. It's just too much variance to accurately say "this teacher is doing a great job and this test shows it was all them."
If designed properly I'd love merit pay, again I think that would drive my salary way up. I just don't think we know a foolproof way of doing it yet. Too much variance. I also don't see how you'd make it work for middle school and up, though it may be doable at the elementary level. It's much harder to judge my performance on merit when I'm one of 6 teachers a kid has. You can get a lot better gauge when kids have the one and same teacher all year.
- 08-17-2011, 06:17 AM
Some of the major reasons it doesnt work in education:
1. how do you judge success?
2. where does special ed fit in?
3. are tests scores the goal (if so, we see what happened with cheating scandals)
At the end of the day, it would be exceptionally difficult, even when using a portfolio based assessment as your gauge
08-17-2011, 06:19 AM
08-17-2011, 06:20 AM
08-17-2011, 08:14 AM
08-17-2011, 08:32 AM
now that he declared that he is running. I am putting all my support towards the "The Rent is Too Damn High" party.
08-17-2011, 10:23 AM
08-17-2011, 10:34 AM
I'll agree that designing something that is accurate would be difficult however teachers unions refusing to allow the conversation to begin, rather than them being a part of trying to put together a system that will work is outrageous.
The net gut feeling from parents is that the mediocre teachers are overpaid, and the good teacher are underpaid. My middle daughter had a kindergarten teacher last year who easily deserved twice her pay. It was a ton of factors, organizational skills, involving parents and students, communication, etc.
If you can't test for the success, then you can't measure it, and its not real. With merit based bonuses, cheating would get you bonuses for a year, but then your baseline target improvement would be higher the next year
08-17-2011, 12:25 PM
No good model has been created, and it certainly doesnt look like one is comnig
08-17-2011, 12:30 PM
How do you assess how good or bad a teacher is then? Is it just an art rather than a science? and we should expect teachers to self-evaluate?
Remember that with this specifically looking at how Washington DC attempted to implement it, there was no change in base pay, no relation to losing tenure, only bonuses for teachers (up to a bonus of 100% of salary) for performance. Why is that such a horrible thing?
And again, with unions refusing to even allow the conversation to happen, of course its hard to create a good model. If the union actually looked out for the teachers, rather than looking out for the union, they'd be actively engaged in trying to work out a good model.
08-17-2011, 12:39 PM
IMO, the only way to truly assess teachers is to refine tenure, not get rid of it. Make a portfolio for 3-5 years, and have colleagues and administrators who have observed the teacher sit down and review the portfolio. From their they make the recommendation for renewal of tenure, or dismissal. I totally agree that there are horrible teachers out there who completely take advantage of tenure. However, they are the minority, at least in my district.
I can tell you, from being in the meetings, that most administrators and teachers truly want whats best for the students and are willing to bend over backwards for them, and deal with all the issues that come with students and their parents
08-17-2011, 12:49 PM
And i have to disagree on administrators, particularly administrators who are school board level (not so much the in school admins) are useless bags of crap most of the time, and cause more issues with the feeling of "ownership" over the schools. One in our district on the school's facebook page has repeatedly posted "Please parents, don't make any postings on this page using a teacher's name or about a specific teacher" but at the same time the school board prohibits teachers from having a facebook page for school related. Plenty of other goofy things, we are having 1 hr early release every monday this year (same total school hours per year) but when asked if we could move it to friday instead, the school board administrators said that would significantly increase absenteeism and cause all sorts of problems. When I asked if he had some documentation showing that was actually true vs his opinion he just brushed it off and refused to answer.
08-17-2011, 01:35 PM
The issue with the bonuses is that it opens the doer for merit based pay. We have already seen the reopening and disgardig of collectively bargained contracts. Once again, the fear is that the precedent is set....you know the rest
08-17-2011, 01:38 PM
08-17-2011, 03:02 PM
08-19-2011, 09:28 PM
It may sound far fetched, but you are proposing putting someones job on the line based on how someone else does. When you're talking about me training an adult that may be one thing...when we are discussing children (remember I only have them in class 1 hour of a 24 hour day) having to do that you've opened up the can of worms. Merit based bonuses might not be bad, but the fear is that will switch to merit based pay and stuff out of our control.
We do test as a school and we use the results of that data to partially determine our success. I also look at things individually and measure stuff that happens in my own classroom. The problem is at least now I don't think we can come up with one good test to accurately determine that THIS teacher sucks or THAT one is amazing. I wish we could, but I don't see it right now.
I do the best possible job I can do every day in the classroom. I try my hardest to be a good influence to kids, and to have them graduate and go on to lead successful lives. A lot of them don't though, despite all my best efforts. The fact is a student's success isn't simply determined by one teacher. Everything about how a kid performs in education isn't in our control, you have a multitude of factors at work.
Again I'd say this stuff is a lot closer to being doable at the elementary level.
08-31-2011, 06:12 AM
Based on most recent polls, Perry has already blitzed right passed Romney into the forefront of the GOP. I cannot imagine how he will be remotely electable, given his pandering to the religious right. Which means, oh boy, 4 more years of Obama (sarcasm)
08-31-2011, 08:25 AM
08-31-2011, 08:41 AM
08-31-2011, 08:45 AM
08-31-2011, 09:20 AM
08-31-2011, 09:34 AM
I think in general though more democrats are waking up and realizing there is no democratic party, or republican party, there are just republicrats.
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08-31-2011, 06:39 PM
Although I like Paul on several issues, and appreciate his more common sense approach, he stands about as much of a chance as I do. He comes off as a bit of a loon (or he is portrayed that way). In my opinion, if he was smart, he would come in as a 3rd party candidate, as he would be directly in the general election.
At the end of the day, there is NO ONE there who is worth a damn. The darn republicrats are in total control and that wont change. Obama v. Perry is a friggin joke. The only other one out there that I have a tad of respect for is Huntsman. He is quite pragmatic, but no one gives a damn
08-31-2011, 06:47 PM
I dont believe he is a loon at all, thats totally the way corporate media portrays him to be. The loons are the ones already in charge of the system and the corporations/banks helping the 1 party republicrats system stay in power.
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08-31-2011, 07:47 PM
I gotta disagree. He gets hurt by the MSM, and needs to be separated from the fray.
Regardless, he has no shot in hell
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