Election of 2012....Who ya got?

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    Cain is fun to listen to, and comes off as truly interested in fixing the problems, not just saying there are problems (which the rest seem to do). He has no shot, even less than Paul. Right now it will come down to Romney or Perry imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Cain is fun to listen to, and comes off as truly interested in fixing the problems, not just saying there are problems (which the rest seem to do). He has no shot, even less than Paul. Right now it will come down to Romney or Perry imo.
    Are you sure you dont wanna say it will come down to Romney, Perry or Obama? Unless you meant just the Repub race of course.

    I gotta say, Bush's re-election was more shocking to me than Buster knocking Tyson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Are you sure you dont wanna say it will come down to Romney, Perry or Obama? Unless you meant just the Repub race of course.

    I gotta say, Bush's re-election was more shocking to me than Buster knocking Tyson.
    I meant the repub side.

    I was not overly stunned, but greatly disappointed
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    Due to race, I will be surprised if Obama loses. It frustrates me that the left doesn't educate themselves on issues and vote on feelings. Even though Obama is the worst president in US history, most Blacks will still vote for him.
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    the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

    I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

    I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
    At least he has some time left in his term...or 2nd term to try to really top the charts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

    I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
    According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
    The black people in my gym dont even consider Obama black. I asked them how they felt after Obama won and they "didnt care because he not even black." It wasnt a black victory to them in any way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
    Its actually not that dramatic...in 2008 only 64% of blacks were registered to vote, so 36% didnt even care to register to vote for Obama....Doing math on top of my head Obama only got a 60% turnout of blacks supporting him if your 95% number is actually correct. You dont have to vote to show you disprove of him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Its actually not that dramatic...in 2008 only 64% of blacks were registered to vote, so 36% didnt even care to register to vote for Obama....Doing math on top of my head Obama only got a 60% turnout of blacks supporting him if your 95% number is actually correct. You dont have to vote to show you disprove of him.
    True but, more Black voters registered in '08 vs '04. In '04 Kerry only had something like 87% of the Black vote. I'm just saying that if the same 96% vote again for Obama, they're voting according to race. If there were only white candidates again less would turn out- like in '04 and previous years. - I think Obama will win again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    True but, more Black voters registered in '08 vs '04. In '04 Kerry only had something like 87% of the Black vote. I'm just saying that if the same 96% vote again for Obama, they're voting according to race. If there were only white candidates again less would turn out- like in '04 and previous years. - I think Obama will win again.
    I dunno...Ive heard of black people coming out and turning against Obama, and that he has not supported the black communities...so possible he may have lost support over the last couple years.

    I do think Obama has a chance at pulling this off, but not because of the black vote, but the fact his he rose 1+Billion dollars for the election already. Money and marketing power buys elections most of the time.
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    I almost wish Donald Trump was running just for more entertainment value out of these debates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I almost wish Donald Trump was running just for more entertainment value out of these debates.
    i love watching him and Cain.

    they have a practical business approach, instead of a political bull**** approach.
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    At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    i love watching him and Cain.

    they have a practical business approach, instead of a political bull**** approach.
    yeah I wouldn't mind Cain and Perry together as P and VP. Things would start shaping up between those two fellas IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastone View Post
    At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
    He looks like he dominated everybody again...Id be interested in seeing if he did as well on the CNN poll as he did the NBC poll last.
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    Paul dominated last night? He looked like an angry, feeble old man having a tantrum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastone View Post
    At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
    you know I hate agreeing with you, but yet again I do. I want to beat Perry with a bat, wish Bachman would stop talking entirely, and Santorum is just too Mr Rodgers to go anywhere.

    Its a tossup as to who is more electible in the general election, romney or paul. Paul from a concept point as well as consistency point, but he has the negatives of old white man plus career politician. And a lot of what he says frightens people partially because they don't understand. Disband FEMA? yep, its unconstitutional. Does that mean the federal government will ignore a state in crisis? No, block grants of $ to a state to deal with a crisis doesn't require a vast federal department who tells the state how to handle its own crisis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Paul dominated last night? He looked like an angry, feeble old man having a tantrum.
    I dont pay attention to their behaviors nor do I look for someone who presents themselves as "presidential" I just make myself tone def and blind and listen to their message. As far as Im concerned, unless I missed something Ron Paul is the only anti-war candidate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    you know I hate agreeing with you, but yet again I do. I want to beat Perry with a bat, wish Bachman would stop talking entirely, and Santorum is just too Mr Rodgers to go anywhere.

    Its a tossup as to who is more electible in the general election, romney or paul. Paul from a concept point as well as consistency point, but he has the negatives of old white man plus career politician. And a lot of what he says frightens people partially because they don't understand. Disband FEMA? yep, its unconstitutional. Does that mean the federal government will ignore a state in crisis? No, block grants of $ to a state to deal with a crisis doesn't require a vast federal department who tells the state how to handle its own crisis.
    We talked about this before how the media promotes Pecky and Ramknee and ignores the other candidates. Seems like they took this to another level.

    I looked for CNN's online poll to see what viewers thought won the debate and to see if Ron Paul dominated again, and the online poll is....

    "Quick vote"
    "Did Rick Perry's debate performance solidify his front-runner status for the GOP presidential nomination?"

    Well, good news is 77% said no (20,000 votes to 6,000)
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    You might personally agree with him Ax, but he does not resonate with that base, which was evident with his 9-11 comments and the crowd reaction. He has no shot.

    Perry looked silly up there, as did many others. Although I do not care for Newt, he carried himself quite well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    You might personally agree with him Ax, but he does not resonate with that base, which was evident with his 9-11 comments and the crowd reaction. He has no shot.

    Perry looked silly up there, as did many others. Although I do not care for Newt, he carried himself quite well.
    Im certainly hoping he is not trying to resonate with that base (edit: although Id hope some day that base goes through drastic changes.) The base Im looking after is a growing process. I think more people support his 9/11 comments that what the people in the audience tried to show, but I understand alot of people have problems when they are being told the contrary to what they have been fed over and over again the past decade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Im certainly hoping he is not trying to resonate with that base (edit: although Id hope some day that base goes through drastic changes.) The base Im looking after is a growing process. I think more people support his 9/11 comments that what the people in the audience tried to show, but I understand alot of people have problems when they are being told the contrary to what they have been fed over and over again the past decade.
    Just to clarify what I meant...Im certainly hoping Ron Paul sticks to his ethical standards instead of catering and trying to resonate with the base just to try to win votes, support and the election. The same way Obama catered to liberals with his socialist views, and anti-war views only then to be a straight corporatist/fascist pro-war president.
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    By the time the base is on board with him, he will be long gone
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    To me, other than Romney (and he's a fraud) I don't expect any of these candidates to be around when the fun really gets going. Someone will need to "rise up" from obscurity to make this interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

    I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
    Well, the most inexperienced and most irresponsible. Only time will tell if the consequences for these things will merit him to be "the worst ever". Wilson is up there on my crap list because he initiated the socialist movement with the 17th amendment. Panzy president...not look what we've got to deal with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Due to race, I will be surprised if Obama loses. It frustrates me that the left doesn't educate themselves on issues and vote on feelings. Even though Obama is the worst president in US history, most Blacks will still vote for him.
    I completely agree! if Obama gets another term in I'll be gone from this country for good by the end of his 2nd term. By then this country will have "crossed the threshold" into a socialist state and will likely never return to natural rights philosophy, which is what this country was founded upon via the constitution. Everything that makes this country great will disappear into the past if we keep moving in this direction. Perhaps I'll get lucky and another country will embrace our constitution in it's original purpose and form when all of this goes down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I completely agree! if Obama gets another term in I'll be gone from this country for good by the end of his 2nd term. By then this country will have "crossed the threshold" into a socialist state and will likely never return to natural rights philosophy, which is what this country was founded upon via the constitution. Everything that makes this country great will disappear into the past if we keep moving in this direction. Perhaps I'll get lucky and another country will embrace our constitution in it's original purpose and form when all of this goes down.
    Then maybe you should leave now, now you're upset because he isn't doing what you want. We spent 8 years being bamboozeld,led into BS wars that we're still paying dearly for, having a bunch of personal freedoms taken away with the BS "Patriot Act", Please
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    Obama is socialist as well as most democrats for that matter. All I have to say study history and look for success in communism and socialism. You might be searching for a while! It doesnt work but is still easy to understand why many congressman and presidents favor it- it further benefits those in government power while destroying the rest of the country! Its a perfect fit for greed and power. Also, I'd also like to point out that both Hitler and Stalin took this very same approach of "giving the power to the federal government". They were both crazy, power hungry, and ultimately became known as the world's greatest mass murderers in the name of socialism. Keep that in mind as u scream "hail Obama!" All I'm saying is that if Obama and the democrats take our country down this path, well, it's a path that I will not follow them into. And surely, there are at least a few million that agree with me who are mainly the educated natural rights individuals. And also, if the previous cabinet is to blame for whatever it is u r saying, then that must also mean that the cabinet previous to George W. is to blame for the credit crisis since it was Clinton's office that gave poor credit holders the right to move up a class via borrowing bank money. Nevermind those in that class were there not because of the rich oppressing the poor but rather because of their irresponsibility with finances. Just study a bit. It's all available for everyone to learn about...
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Obama is socialist as well as most democrats for that matter. All I have to say study history and look for success in communism and socialism. You might be searching for a while! It doesnt work but is still easy to understand why many congressman and presidents favor it- it further benefits those in government power while destroying the rest of the country! Its a perfect fit for greed and power. Also, I'd also like to point out that both Hitler and Stalin took this very same approach of "giving the power to the federal government". They were both crazy, power hungry, and ultimately became known as the world's greatest mass murderers in the name of socialism. Keep that in mind as u scream "hail Obama!" All I'm saying is that if Obama and the democrats take our country down this path, well, it's a path that I will not follow them into. And surely, there are at least a few million that agree with me who are mainly the educated natural rights individuals. And also, if the previous cabinet is to blame for whatever it is u r saying, then that must also mean that the cabinet previous to George W. is to blame for the credit crisis since it was Clinton's office that gave poor credit holders the right to move up a class via borrowing bank money. Nevermind those in that class were there not because of the rich oppressing the poor but rather because of their irresponsibility with finances. Just study a bit. It's all available for everyone to learn about...
    I dont think Obama is a socialist, there is no evidence of that although he was marketed that way. He is a straight corporatist.

    I do see your references to handing over more power to the govermnet...his extension of the patriot act, letting TSA turn the country into a police state, expansion of FEMA concentration camps (H.R. 645,) his executive orders and expanded wars evidence this.

    I think where you are really wrong is that you are viewing this as a democrat vs. republican approach. There is very little difference between the two, they are basically the same party. We can take China for example, and take their government and create China red and China blue, let people vote and end up with the same people in power for example. Its all a continuation of Dems fixing Repubs and Repubs fixing Dems, they take turns fixing the issues of this country, but instead continuing it.

    You can say that Obama is Bush's 3rd term, and if Perry, Cain, Romeny win they will be Bush's 4th term. Hillary Clinton can win it 5 years from now and it will be Bush's 5th term.

    Its an endless hijack of this current 1 party "Duopoly" political system, you will not see change and these politicians (most of them) all work for the banks, corporations and other private interests, the rest of us are just serfs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Obama is socialist as well as most democrats for that matter. All I have to say study history and look for success in communism and socialism. You might be searching for a while! It doesnt work but is still easy to understand why many congressman and presidents favor it- it further benefits those in government power while destroying the rest of the country! Its a perfect fit for greed and power. Also, I'd also like to point out that both Hitler and Stalin took this very same approach of "giving the power to the federal government". They were both crazy, power hungry, and ultimately became known as the world's greatest mass murderers in the name of socialism. Keep that in mind as u scream "hail Obama!" All I'm saying is that if Obama and the democrats take our country down this path, well, it's a path that I will not follow them into. And surely, there are at least a few million that agree with me who are mainly the educated natural rights individuals. And also, if the previous cabinet is to blame for whatever it is u r saying, then that must also mean that the cabinet previous to George W. is to blame for the credit crisis since it was Clinton's office that gave poor credit holders the right to move up a class via borrowing bank money. Nevermind those in that class were there not because of the rich oppressing the poor but rather because of their irresponsibility with finances. Just study a bit. It's all available for everyone to learn about...
    Having lived through a lot more of "it" than you have, this studying you speak of is not necessary. You keep your ideas and the BS you've been fed and I'll keep mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastone

    Then maybe you should leave now, now you're upset because he isn't doing what you want. We spent 8 years being bamboozeld,led into BS wars that we're still paying dearly for, having a bunch of personal freedoms taken away with the BS "Patriot Act", Please
    And Obama extended the patriot act and got us involved in another war not authorized by congress, Libya. Little did his supporters know they were voting for 4 more years of bush policy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And Obama extended the patriot act and got us involved in another war not authorized by congress, Libya. Little did his supporters know they were voting for 4 more years of bush policy.
    Going to war with an executive order is unprecedented in American Politics, not even Bush pulled that one off although he helped solidify the stepping stone of having an Executive Dictatorship, and now we have our Super Congress that is a House Dictatorship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Going to war with an executive order is unprecedented in American Politics, not even Bush pulled that one off although he helped solidify the stepping stone of having an Executive Dictatorship, and now we have our Super Congress that is a House Dictatorship.
    Agreed. Regardless which office or party is at fault, it is clear that our government as a whole is moving towards more federal control and less state and local control. This is socialism at the heart - central power overwhleming the rest. I dont mean to piss u guys off. Its silly that u'd let ur political stance cause u to hate or fight others. At least I have historical reasons why I think the way I do about it. And I hope it secretly encourages others to research on their own. Stop embracing momma's view for once. And also, I appreciate ur input btw on things that I could be wrong about. The reason I suggested that democrats are for socialist movements and repubs r not is simply because the GOP has candidates that are promoting the exact opposite of socialist movements such as returning government power back to states as well as getting hands off on the things that states and corporations can do on their own such as taxes and regulatory agencies...the Federal Government was injtially created to be a tool OF THE STATES. After the 17th amendment, the states became a tool of the federal government further reducing our natural rights and pushing to more central control which is nit a democratic state. Anyways, to each his own. Happy voting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And Obama extended the patriot act and got us involved in another war not authorized by congress, Libya. Little did his supporters know they were voting for 4 more years of bush policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Going to war with an executive order is unprecedented in American Politics, not even Bush pulled that one off although he helped solidify the stepping stone of having an Executive Dictatorship, and now we have our Super Congress that is a House Dictatorship.
    they have become one in the same. The last 2 administrations are no longer divided by party.

    That is why it continually cracks me up how many people call our current administration socialist. Its laughable
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Agreed. Regardless which office or party is at fault, it is clear that our government as a whole is moving towards more federal control and less state and local control. This is socialism at the heart - central power overwhleming the rest. I dont mean to piss u guys off. Its silly that u'd let ur political stance cause u to hate or fight others. At least I have historical reasons why I think the way I do about it. And I hope it secretly encourages others to research on their own. Stop embracing momma's view for once. And also, I appreciate ur input btw on things that I could be wrong about. The reason I suggested that democrats are for socialist movements and repubs r not is simply because the GOP has candidates that are promoting the exact opposite of socialist movements such as returning government power back to states as well as getting hands off on the things that states and corporations can do on their own such as taxes and regulatory agencies...the Federal Government was injtially created to be a tool OF THE STATES. After the 17th amendment, the states became a tool of the federal government further reducing our natural rights and pushing to more central control which is nit a democratic state. Anyways, to each his own. Happy voting!
    What socialist movement do the Democrats and Obama really have? I dont see anything. All they have done was hand power and money to the corporations. Its corporatist, there is no socialism especially Obamacare. All I see them doing is supporting the Military industrial complex. They are the same as republicans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    What socialist movement do the Democrats and Obama really have? I dont see anything. All they have done was hand power and money to the corporations. Its corporatist, there is no socialism especially Obamacare. All I see them doing is supporting the Military industrial complex. They are the same as republicans.
    100% correct. He has been a wolf in sheeps clothing (if that is the proper analogy)

    He has maintained the status quo, no more no less
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    http://obamaism.blogspot.com/That could be a start. Not to mention the restrictions his admin has placed on corporations. The very fact that communists parties are supporting him should say sometuing about what he stands for. I dunno. I'm starting to think it doesnt matter who is in office and that we're going down tuis road regardless now. I mean socialism sounds really nice on paper but it never works because the leaders and government always fail to remain above reproach. The human factor kicks in and things go bad. Thats been the case for any socialist/communists state. It happened to Rome, Greece, Germany, Russia, Japan and China but fortunately China fed off of american capitalism and indutrialization so they r making money now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Socialism, Marxism, Communism & ObamaThat could be a start. Not to mention the restrictions his admin has placed on corporations. The very fact that communists parties are supporting him should say sometuing about what he stands for. I dunno. I'm starting to think it doesnt matter who is in office and that we're going down tuis road regardless now. I mean socialism sounds really nice on paper but it never works because the leaders and government always fail to remain above reproach. The human factor kicks in and things go bad. Thats been the case for any socialist/communists state. It happened to Rome, Greece, Germany, Russia, Japan and China but fortunately China fed off of american capitalism and indutrialization so they r making money now.
    Im not going to that website, I dont have time sorry. I wanted specific examples from you, and not who supports or who votes or what they say...I want real policy that passed.

    Restrictions? lol...ooohh lets hand them over trillions in tax dollars so they can keep their million+ bonuses and lets expand the wars over to Libya and possibly Syria so we can continue to finance the Military Industrial Complex, make Halliburton and countless other private overseas contractors billions of dollars more, lets force people to buy health insurance or go to jail, lets make TSA more powerful and help finance billions of dollars in contracts for naked body-scanner companies, lets give the Fed-Reserve more banking powers and even far less authority to oversight what they are doing, who they are sending money to and why, I can go on and on.

    Obama is a corporatist, I still dont see where this socialism is coming from, who is he trying to help? and not who he is going to say who he will help, but who did he in fact help? The corporations.

    I think our difference is that you think he is socialist moving on to communism, Im saying he went straight to fascism (in some ways) from day 1 after he won the election which was marketed socialist by the mainstream media and his teleprompter.

    I know socialism doesnt work, Its nice but your 100% right you cannot trust government to do anything. The fact is that Karl Marx's paper was financed by NYC Wall Street bankers to solidify power over the populations.

    True socialists are Ralph Nader or Bernie Sanders who I respect because they stick up for what they believe in.
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    Then let's just agree to respectfully disagree with each other. Although, I really don't think we have a disagreement abount political philosophy, but rather, Obama's agenda. And that's ok really.
  

  
 

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