Election of 2012....Who ya got?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    it is funny how much importance is placed on those first 3 primaries/caucuses. Together less than 50 delegates, need what is it 1144 for the nomination?
    Its just the corporate/banking/republicrat run media, they like to get things over with asap especially in situations when they are trying to blackout Ron Paul from gaining real momentum.
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    Just saw the clown shoes on MSNBC having a discussion on how Newt went along in his speach and how he acted as if Santorum didnt even exist, lol. Of course lets double down and not even mention how Newt went along in his speach and how he acted as if Ron Paul didnt even exist, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Just saw the clown shoes on MSNBC having a discussion on how Newt went along in his speach and how he acted as if Santorum didnt even exist, lol. Of course lets double down and not even mention how Newt went along in his speach and how he acted as if Ron Paul didnt even exist, lol.
    After another poor showing, to most Paul doesnt exist. He is the only one in the race that has not won anything yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    After another poor showing, to most Paul doesnt exist. He is the only one in the race that has not won anything yet.
    It wasnt a poor showing, it was a no show. With limited financing and resources unfortunatly they decided not to even waste any money in florida especially when you cant get any delegates unless your first.

    The reason Paul doesnt exist is because the corporations dont want him to exist.

    I know Im being repetitive, but really TV can market Paul to win. Its really up to the "tube" on who wins the elections, with the combination of the corporate powers financing the election and marketing them to win. Thats the reason Obama won with his remarkable slick 5th grade audience acting skills. The entire elections is primarily a fraud.

    Romney is a corporate carbon copy of Obama, he gets the most support and people think he is the polar opposite when he is just a reflection in the mirror of the current dictatorial regime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    After another poor showing, to most Paul doesnt exist. He is the only one in the race that has not won anything yet.
    and with all the electoral votes allocated so far between the 4 contests, its not 10% of whats required to be the nominee. Its a sad state of our instant gratification society that with no candidate having gotten 5% of the necessary delegates that anyone calls it over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    and with all the electoral votes allocated so far between the 4 contests, its not 10% of whats required to be the nominee. Its a sad state of our instant gratification society that with no candidate having gotten 5% of the necessary delegates that anyone calls it over.
    true, but history has shown us all how momentum plays a prominant role in all of this. Additionally, certain demographics are more powerful for certain candidates. Nevada with a high Mormon population....etc...

    At the end of the day, I honestly think some of Paul's supporters were more of a hindrance than a help. They espouse such utter nonsense about him as the "only true hope", etc.. that people begin to put the blame on him and it turns a lot of people off.

    As I have said, I dont dislike his economic policies, it is his foreign policy i have issue with. However, none of these folks are "saviors"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    It wasnt a poor showing, it was a no show. With limited financing and resources unfortunatly they decided not to even waste any money in florida especially when you cant get any delegates unless your first.

    The reason Paul doesnt exist is because the corporations dont want him to exist.

    I know Im being repetitive, but really TV can market Paul to win. Its really up to the "tube" on who wins the elections, with the combination of the corporate powers financing the election and marketing them to win. Thats the reason Obama won with his remarkable slick 5th grade audience acting skills. The entire elections is primarily a fraud.

    Romney is a corporate carbon copy of Obama, he gets the most support and people think he is the polar opposite when he is just a reflection in the mirror of the current dictatorial regime.
    Please see my post above.

    Additionally, rightfully or wrongfully, Paul is not "sellable". He appeals to no distinguishable base, and his supporters are a downright turn off to borderline supporters. They are rabid animals (no offense)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Please see my post above.

    Additionally, rightfully or wrongfully, Paul is not "sellable". He appeals to no distinguishable base, and his supporters are a downright turn off to borderline supporters. They are rabid animals (no offense)
    that defines Obama pretty well i'd think too
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    Name:  Obama-Sign-Billboard-Voted-Obama-Racist-Idiot.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    At the end of the day, I honestly think some of Paul's supporters were more of a hindrance than a help. They espouse such utter nonsense about him as the "only true hope", etc.. that people begin to put the blame on him and it turns a lot of people off.

    As I have said, I dont dislike his economic policies, it is his foreign policy i have issue with. However, none of these folks are "saviors"
    Thats just like all the other candidates, Romeny and Gangrich, but Id say they have more rabbid animals than Paul currently. The more recent example of utter nonsense, and to the most extreme marketing of a candidate was Obama, and he won. Obama still has a large group of rabid animals who drool at every word he reads off the telepromter.

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Please see my post above.

    Additionally, rightfully or wrongfully, Paul is not "sellable". He appeals to no distinguishable base, and his supporters are a downright turn off to borderline supporters. They are rabid animals (no offense)
    Yes, there is a issue with sell-able, but the base is becoming distinguishable for sure. It seems that your looking to pick on a movement's negatives due to the lack of instant gratification, when really this is a long term timely process that by far does not involve one man and the opposition has vast and unlimited resources along with military might.

    The "sellable" part is a tough one, I know this is an issue with society. With a government/corporate monopoly on public education, and government/corporate monopoly of all the mainstream media its hard work to break apart conditioning that started at early childhood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Thats just like all the other candidates, Romeny and Gangrich, but Id say they have more rabbid animals than Paul currently. The more recent example of utter nonsense, and to the most extreme marketing of a candidate was Obama, and he won. Obama still has a large group of rabid animals who drool at every word he reads off the telepromter.
    no doubt, Obama's rabid animals are prolific Very similarly to Paul. I have not met one person who felt that way about anyone else though. I am amazed at many of the extreme Paul fanatics who truly believe he is the little old Mr. Magoo-savior (sorry for the cartoon reference) It is entirely unrealistic



    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Yes, there is a issue with sell-able, but the base is becoming distinguishable for sure. It seems that your looking to pick on a movement's negatives due to the lack of instant gratification, when really this is a long term timely process that by far does not involve one man and the opposition has vast and unlimited resources along with military might.

    The "sellable" part is a tough one, I know this is an issue with society. With a government/corporate monopoly on public education, and government/corporate monopoly of all the mainstream media its hard work to break apart conditioning that started at early childhood.
    What I am referring to by base, is the standard bases that exist. Paul is out on his own, and is using the republican party to get his own agenda off the ground. He is no more a republican than Obama

    Additionally, he does not do himself any favors during debates and appearances when he fumbles his words and stutters along and does not seem to make a coherrent sentence. Not trying to be nit picky or anything on that ilk, but Paul is in many instances his own worse nightmare.

    Either way, regardless of who gets elected, nothing is going to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    that defines Obama pretty well i'd think too
    Couldnt agree more!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post


    What I am referring to by base, is the standard bases that exist. Paul is out on his own, and is using the republican party to get his own agenda off the ground. He is no more a republican than Obama

    Additionally, he does not do himself any favors during debates and appearances when he fumbles his words and stutters along and does not seem to make a coherrent sentence. Not trying to be nit picky or anything on that ilk, but Paul is in many instances his own worse nightmare.

    Either way, regardless of who gets elected, nothing is going to change.
    I dont think standard bases should even exist, Im all for ending the political party as it is known in America. All of them including Libertarian's and Independents (somehow being an Independent appears to be a "party") and all future parties become inflitrated and corrupted.

    All elections should be based on the individual, not "hes a republican" or "hes a christian", etc...

    I really dont mind if Paul fumbles in the debates, policy has nothing to do with acting skills. I think your picking on him more so because you dont like his policy plans to begin with which is ok I do the same. Its unfortunate that people to vote based on looking "presidential."
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    no doubt, Obama's rabid animals are prolific Very similarly to Paul. I have not met one person who felt that way about anyone else though. I am amazed at many of the extreme Paul fanatics who truly believe he is the little old Mr. Magoo-savior (sorry for the cartoon reference) It is entirely unrealistic

    What I am referring to by base, is the standard bases that exist. Paul is out on his own, and is using the republican party to get his own agenda off the ground. He is no more a republican than Obama

    Additionally, he does not do himself any favors during debates and appearances when he fumbles his words and stutters along and does not seem to make a coherrent sentence. Not trying to be nit picky or anything on that ilk, but Paul is in many instances his own worse nightmare.

    Either way, regardless of who gets elected, nothing is going to change.
    you are right in a sense, that he's mostly using it to have a vocal front for a non-religion based constitutionalism/libertarian movement. He would like to win the nomination and election but if he can't making sure more people hear the simple common sense things he says. Audit the fed. Stop foreign aid to our enemies. Close some (if not all) of the over 1000 military bases we have on foreign soil. Establish fiscal responsibility. etc.

    With the economy the way it is, and people seeing what is happening in greece and the rest of europe these things are starting to sound reasonable to more and more people. There isnt a credit card with indefinite limit for the US government, with the CBO's latest projections if you take the "not wearing rosy eyed glasses" numbers our debt servicing cost on the national debt will reach more than the cost of social security within the decade. At that point, you are looking at needing to reach tax rates of 25% for low income people scaling up to 60% on high income solely to keep social security and other social welfare programs, the debt servicing and the military afloat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I dont think standard bases should even exist, Im all for ending the political party as it is known in America. All of them including Libertarian's and Independents (somehow being an Independent appears to be a "party") and all future parties become inflitrated and corrupted.

    All elections should be based on the individual, not "hes a republican" or "hes a christian", etc...

    I really dont mind if Paul fumbles in the debates, policy has nothing to do with acting skills. I think your picking on him more so because you dont like his policy plans to begin with which is ok I do the same. Its unfortunate that people to vote based on looking "presidential."
    agreed on the parties, but you know as well as I do that a change that you are hoping for will never happen.

    The problem with Paul on a stage is how that comes off. It looks like a lack of intelligence. One of the things about Newt (who I dislike immensely) is that he sounds intelligent, can articulate a vision and plan. Paul struggles with that

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    you are right in a sense, that he's mostly using it to have a vocal front for a non-religion based constitutionalism/libertarian movement. He would like to win the nomination and election but if he can't making sure more people hear the simple common sense things he says. Audit the fed. Stop foreign aid to our enemies. Close some (if not all) of the over 1000 military bases we have on foreign soil. Establish fiscal responsibility. etc.

    With the economy the way it is, and people seeing what is happening in greece and the rest of europe these things are starting to sound reasonable to more and more people. There isnt a credit card with indefinite limit for the US government, with the CBO's latest projections if you take the "not wearing rosy eyed glasses" numbers our debt servicing cost on the national debt will reach more than the cost of social security within the decade. At that point, you are looking at needing to reach tax rates of 25% for low income people scaling up to 60% on high income solely to keep social security and other social welfare programs, the debt servicing and the military afloat.
    There are certain issues I support him on, and fiscal policy happens to be one. However, it is his foreign policy that is of grave concern to me, as in all honesty, anyone that thinks Iran is not a concern is not paying attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    agreed on the parties, but you know as well as I do that a change that you are hoping for will never happen.

    The problem with Paul on a stage is how that comes off. It looks like a lack of intelligence. One of the things about Newt (who I dislike immensely) is that he sounds intelligent, can articulate a vision and plan. Paul struggles with that

    There are certain issues I support him on, and fiscal policy happens to be one. However, it is his foreign policy that is of grave concern to me, as in all honesty, anyone that thinks Iran is not a concern is not paying attention.
    Of course not, Im realistic with that. What it comes down to is I do not care what party people belong to when I vote, if I vote.

    I think what your pointing out is morso personal interpetation. He does have a articulate vision and plan, and its high deph but when on stage things need to be simplified for the average viewer at home (my opinion).

    Iran in not a concern...I think at the moment the way NATO and Washington markets Iran as some evil country out to destroy Isreal any second is a unrealistic possibilty and in Iran's shoes the concern is the west especially the way we have bombarded a handful of Middle Eastern countries and now Africa (edit: sorry for the run-on mr. school teacher, lol.) Just because Iran gets a ability to lauch Nuke's (if that even happens but if it does) doesnt mean that the country wants to be on a suicide mission. They are a average government just like any other government seeking money and power, and have no interest in being wiped out over stupidity. Why isnt Isreal a grave concern? Look at their Eugenics program in regards to the Palestine people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Why isnt Isreal a grave concern? Look at their Eugenics program in regards to the Palestine people.
    or their other human rights violations

    like

    Israel's High Court has narrowly upheld a law denying Palestinians from the West
    Bank and Gaza married to Israeli citizens the right to live in the country with
    their spouses.
    or the more recent expansion of that

    Human Rights Watch has denounced on Tuesday recent judgements by the Israeli High Court in a report titled “Israel: High Court Rulings Undermine Human Rights”.

    The report deals with two recent rulings by the Israeli High Court regarding the Citizenship & Entry Into Israel law and the use of quarries located in the West Bank by Israeli companies, with Middle East Director Sarah Leah Witson stating,

    “With these rulings, Israel’s highest court has veered seriously off course in serving as a final bastion for upholding human rights. For the system of legal checks against rights abuses to break down like this is one more indication of the unraveling of protections for rights and freedom in Israel.”

    The Citizenship & Entry Into Israel law prohibits Palestinians from moving into the State of Israel, in which Israel includes occupied East Jerusalem, to live with their spouses if they are from the Occupied Palestinian Territories and other Middle Eastern countries in which Israel deems “operations that constitute a threat to the State of Israel are being carried out”.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Of course not, Im realistic with that. What it comes down to is I do not care what party people belong to when I vote, if I vote.

    I think what your pointing out is morso personal interpetation. He does have a articulate vision and plan, and its high deph but when on stage things need to be simplified for the average viewer at home (my opinion).

    Iran in not a concern...I think at the moment the way NATO and Washington markets Iran as some evil country out to destroy Isreal any second is a unrealistic possibilty and in Iran's shoes the concern is the west especially the way we have bombarded a handful of Middle Eastern countries and now Africa (edit: sorry for the run-on mr. school teacher, lol.) Just because Iran gets a ability to lauch Nuke's (if that even happens but if it does) doesnt mean that the country wants to be on a suicide mission. They are a average government just like any other government seeking money and power, and have no interest in being wiped out over stupidity. Why isnt Isreal a grave concern? Look at their Eugenics program in regards to the Palestine people.
    to me, Paul is not able to articulate his plan (if it is as strong as you suggest) which is a problem. Considering how many times he has run for President

    I totally disagree on Iran. I do believe they are more of a problem than you might suggest, and in this day and age an isolated approach is not feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    or their other human rights violations

    like



    or the more recent expansion of that
    Regarding Israel, I will always take the Kissinger approach, I support their existence, not their aggression. With that said, I have family there, and I can tell you, the aggression is not so one sided, which I am sure you are aware
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Name:  Obama-Sign-Billboard-Voted-Obama-Racist-Idiot.jpg
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    I love this, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Of course not, Im realistic with that. What it comes down to is I do not care what party people belong to when I vote, if I vote.

    I think what your pointing out is morso personal interpetation. He does have a articulate vision and plan, and its high deph but when on stage things need to be simplified for the average viewer at home (my opinion).

    Iran in not a concern...I think at the moment the way NATO and Washington markets Iran as some evil country out to destroy Isreal any second is a unrealistic possibilty and in Iran's shoes the concern is the west especially the way we have bombarded a handful of Middle Eastern countries and now Africa (edit: sorry for the run-on mr. school teacher, lol.) Just because Iran gets a ability to lauch Nuke's (if that even happens but if it does) doesnt mean that the country wants to be on a suicide mission. They are a average government just like any other government seeking money and power, and have no interest in being wiped out over stupidity. Why isnt Isreal a grave concern? Look at their Eugenics program in regards to the Palestine people.
    I find myself agreeing with you increasingly the more you speak up, AX. The world isn't in the business of military warfare like it used to be. The world is concerned with economic warfare these days and I'm inclined to think Iran is the same as anyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I totally disagree on Iran. I do believe they are more of a problem than you might suggest, and in this day and age an isolated approach is not feasible.
    thats just silly. Iran is saber rattling, nothing more. We've had them under sanctions how long? They want a right to sit at the adults table. Considering the number of other countries in the area that have nuclear weapons, who cares if they get them too? The rhetoric of destroying Israel is just that, rhetoric. They know that upon launch of a single nuclear weapon that their capital and all their power and oil facilities would be taken out by nukes in turn by Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Regarding Israel, I will always take the Kissinger approach, I support their existence, not their aggression. With that said, I have family there, and I can tell you, the aggression is not so one sided, which I am sure you are aware
    Oh for sure, I have close friends there too. But the "I'm going to kill your brother because your brother killed my brother" never ends. Israel isn't smart enough to get that. Let the palestinians have all the lands seized in 67. We haven't had any other country annex territory by war and let it stand in a century, but with israel, its ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    to me, Paul is not able to articulate his plan (if it is as strong as you suggest) which is a problem. Considering how many times he has run for President

    I totally disagree on Iran. I do believe they are more of a problem than you might suggest, and in this day and age an isolated approach is not feasible.

    Regarding Israel, I will always take the Kissinger approach, I support their existence, not their aggression. With that said, I have family there, and I can tell you, the aggression is not so one sided, which I am sure you are aware
    Regarding the bold print, I agree. I wish RP could simplify his explanations a bit more for the uneducated and "average" americans. His economic policies really mean well. From what I can tell, RP wants to take us back to an economic freedom of the early 1900's which is just liberating to think about. However, a majority of people in this country don't seem to know much about our political history and the gradual changes that have been made to sway us from the original constitutional policies and laws that this country became great with.

    He'll never win but I truly still think the man wants to give americans their freedoms back - especially regarding interstate commerce.

    Basically, to understand what Ron Paul is saying, you gotta get a decent post-secondary business/history background education to see what he sees and since most of america does not have this type of education - well, most people don't get what he is saying or how it is relevant to current matters. I know I'm not crazy to think this either because statistics show that the vast majority of younger, college-attending and post-college students/business men and women are the demographics that followed him. I am one of them and I didn't follow him until I got the education in business law and history.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I find myself agreeing with you increasingly the more you speak up, AX. The world isn't in the business of military warfare like it used to be. The world is concerned with economic warfare these days and I'm inclined to think Iran is the same as anyone else.
    Fact is a small group of people will find a war with Iran good for their own selfish business. The first thing that will happen with a war in Iran is that they will try to seize control of all the oil fields and have private contractors (who make a crap load more than our military) protect companies such as Halliburton. Second, once everything is all settled they will try to find where all the gold is and seize that (all the digital money was seized prior to the war) as well, and finally they will create a private central bank to run the currency of the country which will enslave the Iranians for life.
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    Mainstream media really needed to spend hours yesterday and today explaining how Romney has no concerns for poor people. Im so glad for the clarification out of his own mouth, this is surprising news to me. I never knew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Mainstream media really needed to spend hours yesterday and today explaining how Romney has no concerns for poor people. Im so glad for the clarification out of his own mouth, this is surprising news to me. I never knew.
    Ax...tsk, tsk, you are being just a shady as the MSM. You are taking it out of context, as he clearly stated that the "poor" have safety nets in place to help them, and if there is a need for more help, it will be provided.
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    I think his issue was the inordinate amount of time the media spent on a partial sentence taken out of context.
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    Regardless of what the media says (I agree its a joke,) I was already convinced in regards to poor people he is really interested in getting something out of them and keeping them that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Regardless of what the media says (I agree its a joke,) I was already convinced in regards to poor people he is really interested in getting something out of them and keeping them that way.
    Ill add that he doesnt care about the middle class either, and most rich people (rich, not wealthy). He just wants to get something out of them too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Regardless of what the media says (I agree its a joke,) I was already convinced in regards to poor people he is really interested in getting something out of them and keeping them that way.
    Hey look, I found something to disagree with you on! One of the big issues I think we face is how we have continued to reduce how much in taxes we collect at the lower end (average family making $40,000 in 1980 paid more in dollars + % than a family making $80,000 today) and built that culture of entitlement. People acted "shocked" at Romney's 15% rate, but most people talk about the rate their income falls into, not their effective rate which is QUITE different. I pretty well doubt most people making under $200,000 a year pay much higher percentage as an effective rate.

    but the turning lower + middle class into serfs is nothing new

    http://www.naturalnews.com/034853_Ob..._handouts.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Hey look, I found something to disagree with you on! One of the big issues I think we face is how we have continued to reduce how much in taxes we collect at the lower end (average family making $40,000 in 1980 paid more in dollars + % than a family making $80,000 today) and built that culture of entitlement. People acted "shocked" at Romney's 15% rate, but most people talk about the rate their income falls into, not their effective rate which is QUITE different. I pretty well doubt most people making under $200,000 a year pay much higher percentage as an effective rate.

    but the turning lower + middle class into serfs is nothing new

    Obama's economic policies have created a nation of jobless citizens dependent on government handouts
    #'s can be very deceptive. They can lower "official tax" but then they can tax you in many other ways. For example, the state starts forcing people to buy license plates, mandatory health insurance or face a large fine for not buying their insurance product, raise property tax.

    Also...any candidate not forcing the issue of the Federal Reserve and currency is ultimately a counter balance to any future tax drops with inflation (much of inflation caused by stolen money by the Fed. and unlimited unkown printing) Poor people and those on social security are getting pay cuts monthly due to rapid inflation. 4-5 years its a big difference. Romney supports the Fed even though Ron Paul's partial audit that passed revealed 16 trillion dollars in secret loans in a small time period Romney will not attack the issue and most likely grant the Fed more powers the same way Obama (and officially) granted the Fed more powers.

    Nice article by the way....the problem with socialism and government entitlements is that its never meant with any good intent when its coming from a government that murders its own people, its usually a bigger power grab. Wall Street financed Karl Marx. In the end these hand outs and entitlements are just chicken feed to keep society under control.
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    that is the area where democrats have been most successful. By making businesses less profitable, and charging higher taxes on job creators (with just the progressive tax system) they've created a serf class dependent on government services. And that serf class votes with the democrats more often, because they continue to promise bread and circuses. The part the serfs don't realize is that a huge part of the reason they are dependent on government handouts is the very same tax structure that supports them. Its a zero sum game in the end, even Bernanke finally said it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    that is the area where democrats have been most successful. By making businesses less profitable, and charging higher taxes on job creators (with just the progressive tax system) they've created a serf class dependent on government services. And that serf class votes with the democrats more often, because they continue to promise bread and circuses. The part the serfs don't realize is that a huge part of the reason they are dependent on government handouts is the very same tax structure that supports them. Its a zero sum game in the end, even Bernanke finally said it.
    Also forcing job creators to buy mandatory insurance on their employees...another example of hidden taxes, fees, etc...Ultimately its the mega corporations such as Wall Mart that can maintain to exist in the long run and the little guy shutting down.

    You know, the entire police system has been turning into a revenue collection system, and with the police being federalized from coast to coast by the Department of Homeland Security it looks like the revenue collecting system is being transformed from a local/state cellecting system into a federal government revenue collection system, just another example how society is being financially enslaved in all 50 states.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Just thought I would throw this out there, since we have talked about Iran
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah...hilate-israel/


    Interesting read
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    No one is talking about Nevada? What a cluster **** that has turned out to be. And what is up with the delegates anyone know? I heard Paul could still get more delegates, than Romney, because none of Romney's voters are willing to put in the work to be dlegates. Is this true?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    that is the area where democrats have been most successful. By making businesses less profitable, and charging higher taxes on job creators (with just the progressive tax system) they've created a serf class dependent on government services. And that serf class votes with the democrats more often, because they continue to promise bread and circuses. The part the serfs don't realize is that a huge part of the reason they are dependent on government handouts is the very same tax structure that supports them. Its a zero sum game in the end, even Bernanke finally said it.
    Is their really that much of a tax burden on the rich?It also begs the question that if the government eased the amount of taxes on the upper 1%,would they reinvest that money in business growth or would they simply sit on the money like the banks did when they got that huge government bail out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conagher

    Is their really that much of a tax burden on the rich?It also begs the question that if the government eased the amount of taxes on the upper 1%,would they reinvest that money in business growth or would they simply sit on the money like the banks did when they got that huge government bail out?
    The rich didn't get to be rich by putting their money in gold coins in a vault and playing with them like Scrooge mcduck. There is too much of a tax burden on the rich as we have almost half of the working population posting no federal income taxes. The average family making $80,000 a year now pays less in taxes (in dollars) than a family making $40,000 did in the 80s. Upper income peoples effectivetax rates have not gone down nearly that much.
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    And the banks didn't sit on the bailout money just to sit on it. What got us into the mess? Banks giving loans to people who they shouldn't have. Is it surprising that their lending policies are tighter now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And the banks didn't sit on the bailout money just to sit on it. What got us into the mess? Banks giving loans to people who they shouldn't have. Is it surprising that their lending policies are tighter now?
    The money did flow free and easy for too long.A melt down was inevitable under the state it was in.There are so many factors contributing to the financial mess we are in now.
    The only question that remains is there any viable candidates smart enough to turn this thing around.I don`t see any.
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    you also have reports of economic terrorism coming out. bin laden is on record many times saying they should be attacking the us economy

    then outrageously wealthy elite...george soros who bets on countries' currency to flop so he can cash in...and he uses his media to help it happen.
    he made a billion overnight in the 90s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conagher

    The money did flow free and easy for too long.A melt down was inevitable under the state it was in.There are so many factors contributing to the financial mess we are in now.
    The only question that remains is there any viable candidates smart enough to turn this thing around.I don`t see any.
    At least some of Ron Paul's policies would help. Like with many thing s, the real issue is do you want to have a long drawn out low pain over decades, or a short sharp pain over 3-5 years. Most people are dumb, and would want the lower pain spread out. Net total of that suffering ends up being far worse. Look at Japan, they still haven't really recovered from their crash 20 years ago. the Nikkei index never reached its 1991 levels, today its roughly at 1985-1988 levels....
  

  
 

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