Election of 2012....Who ya got?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    You dont need to Judicial branch, you need 2/3rds which is the executive and the house. I dont know if your following Ron Paul's audit the fed movement "Federal Reserve Transparency Act H.R. 1207," but he was close to having the congress passing the bill as a congressman. As a president its possible for him to exert more influence on the bill, and of course the executive would sign it which we all know he will do.
    by your own words, he will not have the support, thus the need for an executive order. He is no different

    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Its unrealistic with your interpretation. To some, our current foreign policy is already unrealistic and an immediate halt will only strengthen foreign policy and unite the world instead of being an isolationist. Being active in all these un-necessary wars and running sanctions on countries is isolationist policy, and is also isolating the American people from our government.

    Political idea's aside which we know we disagree on...how are we going to pay to continue the wars? Borrow more money from the Chinese? We cannot afford it anymore, this country is in a economic crisis and we just added another war. This is another fact that is unrealistic.

    Economics has always been debatable, there is no perfect system and they all have flaws. Personally I support Jacque Fresco's Resource Based Economy over any currently used economy including Ron Paul's.
    First, you are correct about economics. There are experts on both sides of all arguments, which tell me they are all full of it

    A massive withdrawal is not anywhere near plausible at this point. Should we have been there at the beginning? Of course not, but sadly we are there now, and a gradual withdrawal with REAL dates is the only solution.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, there is a huge difference between bin laden an enemy combatant, and a US citizen. Was the guy a douchebag sure. Did he deserve to die sure. Was he guilty of being a traitor and deserved a death sentence for it sure.

    did he have a right as a US citizen to a trial even in absentia before his death sentence was ordered absolutely. The more we depart from rule of law and the constitution, the more our country falls apart.
    Easy, you cant believe the crap you just typed can you? He loses his rights when he takes up arms against the country. Please do not tell me that the rule of law (based on what? the constitution) applies to him. The document is too old to take into account what he had done, there was no precedent for our founding parents for a situation like this.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    A massive withdrawal is not anywhere near plausible at this point. Should we have been there at the beginning? Of course not, but sadly we are there now, and a gradual withdrawal with REAL dates is the only solution.
    You see, I can compromise to that. The problem is they are talking withdrawal, withdrawal, withdrawal, then Obama even said we withdrew from Iraq.

    Instead of withdrawing anything, we are only building permanence with embassies, bases, prisons, etc...and going to wars with other countries.

    Thats my issue...A true set timeline...Im fine and understand that. Im just sick of timelines that get extended 2 years, 4 years, 2 years, etc...in Washington a timeline is just a false sense of hope so people against the war shut up for a little while.

    But yes AE14, give me a timeline for withdrawal, a real withdrawal (including withdrawing private contractors aka mercenaries) Im all for it.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Easy, you cant believe the crap you just typed can you? He loses his rights when he takes up arms against the country. Please do not tell me that the rule of law (based on what? the constitution) applies to him. The document is too old to take into account what he had done, there was no precedent for our founding parents for a situation like this.
    Setting our differences on his rights aside for a moment which I agree with Easy on...dont you think its irresponsible that if they had an opportunity to capture them alive that you lose out in a bigger opportunity of interrogation and perhaps getting key information to other terrorists and future potential planned threats from happening in this country?
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by AE14

    Easy, you cant believe the crap you just typed can you? He loses his rights when he takes up arms against the country. Please do not tell me that the rule of law (based on what? the constitution) applies to him. The document is too old to take into account what he had done, there was no precedent for our founding parents for a situation like this.
    there is no provision for losing your rights without due process. If he died in a large scale firefight that's one thing, an unmanned drone isnt any better or different than a long range sniper. Its not all that far different than the branch davidians. Were they nutbags sure, but the way the atf assaulted them denied them their "inalienable" rights. When we ok our government doing it in one situation what happens? They continue to expand how they use it, and are more than capable of fabricating news and intelligence reports to support state run assassination of citizens who pose problems.
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  6. And the constitution did have a way to deal with it, the charge is treason. As I said, even finding him guilty of treason in absentia would have been fine, and it being public that he was found guilty and sentenced to death. But this just (nothing new for obama and progressives) just ignores the constitution.

  7. Ron paul has my vote but do to corporate controlled media he wont win simply because he wont get mainstream media cove***e

  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And the constitution did have a way to deal with it, the charge is treason. As I said, even finding him guilty of treason in absentia would have been fine, and it being public that he was found guilty and sentenced to death. But this just (nothing new for obama and progressives) just ignores the constitution.
    a charge of treason in abstentia? to me that is a tad foolish. again, the beauty of the constitution is that it is a living document, that can be adjusted. There is no way our founding fathers would have been able to see the issues of today, so their punishments to me are not appropriate.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    a charge of treason in abstentia? to me that is a tad foolish. again, the beauty of the constitution is that it is a living document, that can be adjusted. There is no way our founding fathers would have been able to see the issues of today, so their punishments to me are not appropriate.
    Agreed to some extent. The principles remain the same but the circumstances evolve.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka

  10. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    there is no provision for losing your rights without due process. If he died in a large scale firefight that's one thing, an unmanned drone isnt any better or different than a long range sniper. Its not all that far different than the branch davidians. Were they nutbags sure, but the way the atf assaulted them denied them their "inalienable" rights. When we ok our government doing it in one situation what happens? They continue to expand how they use it, and are more than capable of fabricating news and intelligence reports to support state run assassination of citizens who pose problems.
    While its hard to feel sorry for this guy, there is bigger point that you are nailing. For instance assume Palin were president and had this type of free reign with our military actions. Though nobody is losing sleeping with this guy's death, if we open the door on this type of action it will be hard to shut later. Plus there's worse things than death ...like out of country military prisons.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But this just (nothing new for obama and progressives) just ignores the constitution.
    We all know W was hoping to do the same thing. There's been plenty of actions taken that ignore the constitution since 9-11, by both parties.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AE14

    a charge of treason in abstentia? to me that is a tad foolish. again, the beauty of the constitution is that it is a living document, that can be adjusted. There is no way our founding fathers would have been able to see the issues of today, so their punishments to me are not appropriate.
    Yes, its a living document as changed by constitutional amendments, none of which apply here.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76

    We all know W was hoping to do the same thing. There's been plenty of actions taken that ignore the constitution since 9-11, by both parties.
    Sure, but it just continues to get worse each year

  14. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Sure, but it just continues to get worse each year
    Worse yes. But Bush detained americans without due process, granted now we kill without due process.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    Worse yes. But Bush detained americans without due process, granted now we kill without due process.
    And also Bush went to unjust wars, but went to congress. Granted now we use an executive order to go to war with any country on the planet without consulting congress.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    And also Bush went to unjust wars, but went to congress. Granted now we use an executive order to go to war with any country on the planet without consulting congress.
    Well our drone attacks aren't considered war so I hear. I feel I'm the type of person that is as up to date on the news as any average american (sometimes more / sometimes less) and some of these places we've used drone attacks in the last several months I somehow hear about like a week later. And I'm thinking when the f*** was this decided and why??? When did Africa become an enemy??

    EDIT for topic discussion Chris Christie is looking good relatively speaking

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    We all know W was hoping to do the same thing. There's been plenty of actions taken that ignore the constitution since 9-11, by both parties.
    indeed, this is not a partisan issue at all (although Easy might believe it it). Both parties are for big government and violating the constitution at some level.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    Well our drone attacks aren't considered war so I hear. I feel I'm the type of person that is as up to date on the news as any average american (sometimes more / sometimes less) and some of these places we've used drone attacks in the last several months I somehow hear about like a week later. And I'm thinking when the f*** was this decided and why??? When did Africa become an enemy??

    EDIT for topic discussion Chris Christie is looking good relatively speaking
    I was talking about Lybia which was much more than just drone attacks, but an all out and ongoing war. What they call it is not what to go by.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post

    EDIT for topic discussion Chris Christie is looking good relatively speaking
    until people see NJ's unemployment rate

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AE14

    indeed, this is not a partisan issue at all (although Easy might believe it it). Both parties are for big government and violating the constitution at some level.
    No, I can agree with that, hence my ron paul support.

    It isn't so much about this particular douchebag, as the precedent

  21. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    until people see NJ's unemployment rate
    Its ok...he just supported the official recent raise for all NY/NJ bridges and tunnels to $12, and will go up to $15 in a few years so the great people of Jersey Shore can look forward to getting minimum wage jobs in NYC and work the first 3 hours just to pay to cross the bridge.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    until people see NJ's unemployment rate
    Relative being the key word Shoot we'd kill for a 9 something over here. Those were the good ol days lol

  23. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    And also Bush went to unjust wars, but went to congress. Granted now we use an executive order to go to war with any country on the planet without consulting congress.
    The president always had the right Ito to war or 90 days I believe without the consent of congress.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76

    Relative being the key word Shoot we'd kill for a 9 something over here. Those were the good ol days lol
    It is higher in NJ than nationally. He stands no shot, he is too polarizing right now. His best chance is to wait till 2016, and hope Obama wins and tanks further.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    It is higher in NJ than nationally. He stands no shot, he is too polarizing right now. His best chance is to wait till 2016, and hope Obama wins and tanks further.
    its not 9%?

  26. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    The president always had the right Ito to war or 90 days I believe without the consent of congress.
    Its well past 90 days now, and it doesnt comply with the War Powers act of 1973.

    Regardless, they totally dodged the laws by saying it was a "Kinetic Action" for "Humanitarian Causes" and that we will only be there for a few days and they never declared this a war. Keep in mind the CIA had been in Lybia starting the uprising well before hand funded by black budgets. I told people last year before any of the uprising's started that this was going to start happening in the middle east, but they didnt believe me.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    its not 9%?
    Its around 9.4 now and moving along with all the cuts to public sector jobs. THe most mind boggling was cutting police in Camden/Newark and Trenton

    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Its well past 90 days now, and it doesnt comply with the War Powers act of 1973.

    Regardless, they totally dodged the laws by saying it was a "Kinetic Action" for "Humanitarian Causes" and that we will only be there for a few days and they never declared this a war. Keep in mind the CIA had been in Lybia starting the uprising well before hand funded by black budgets. I told people last year before any of the uprising's started that this was going to start happening in the middle east, but they didnt believe me.
    I agree its past 90, however, Libya is not just an American issue. Isnt it NATO? Big difference

  28. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yes, its a living document as changed by constitutional amendments, none of which apply here.
    again....trying to apply todays issues to a document from 200+ years ago is difficult. However, the beauty is that it can be amended and should be with the world we live in.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by drrockzo

    You do realize most online polls are linked to IP address so that you can only vote once right? Although there are ways around this I dont think most people are gonna take the time to do that.
    I am voting for Ron Paul as I feel he is the last chance we have to get this country back to constitutionality but my second choice would have to be Huntsman.
    Ron Paul! Give peace a chance! He's got my vote for sure. I want to see peace, see an end to the drug war and see an America I can be proud of! plus if we play our cards right we'll be able to get our gear without being demonized and without facing a criminal record.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    I agree its past 90, however, Libya is not just an American issue. Isnt it NATO? Big difference
    Yes, and America being involved with NATO's wars makes it even a bigger/worse issue for me.
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