What good has Obama done for the U.S.A.?
- 07-31-2011, 12:07 PM
A fruitless endeavor and one that will always be untrue. Our government has never been ran by one person. Blaming one person is foolish to say the least.
- 07-31-2011, 12:09 PM
07-31-2011, 12:11 PM
Failure to raise the debt ceiling will be far from the best thing that could happen to us. If you think it will only effect the government youre wrong. Interest rates could skyrocket. They will have no choice but to inflate our way out of debt which is what they're going to do anyway. Not raising it essentially saying were not going to pay our bills. It's hard to get anyone to lend you anything once you've said that.Originally Posted by EasyEJL
And this problem started in the early 80's. Neither "side" has had anything under control since.
07-31-2011, 12:16 PM
Ask someone who's receiving unemployment if they think we should get rid of it. Ask someone with family in the military right now if they think their benefits should be cut. Ask someone who's husband is fixing a road giving him a job because of government money if they want that shut down. Ask someone who has a family member getting prescription drugs paid for if they'd like to get rid of that. The idea that Americans actually want smaller government is largely false. We pretty much have the exact government we vote for over and over. We Americans just like to complain about it's size...we largely balk on the necessary methods to reduce it. Sad but true.
07-31-2011, 12:19 PM
Which is great for the staus quo. As long as we're always arguing about R vs. D we won't ever get to the root of the problem.
07-31-2011, 12:20 PM
07-31-2011, 12:21 PM
07-31-2011, 12:21 PM
07-31-2011, 12:24 PM
07-31-2011, 12:33 PM
The vast majority of Americans are already on or benefiting from some type of government program and you can damn sure bet they don't want it touched. Again, they are against the government stuff they don't directly benefit from....but touch the stuff they are benefiting from and they will flip out.
Of course they are full of wasteful spending, the government has never been efficient....but the idea that a lot of Americans are truly for small government is basically absurd. Why do you think lowering the national debt is so difficult? No one can agree on the best way to do it. Raising taxes isn't popular and cutting spending is only popular for those it doesn't effect.
07-31-2011, 12:37 PM
But if our interest rates rise and they will as the treasury continues to issue bonds to cover debt then that interest payment will also rise. I don't support the continued debt raises either but simply not doing it isn't the responsible thing to do.Originally Posted by EasyEJL
The only thing keeping our rates low is that the rest of the world is in worse shape than we are. Japan has worse debt than Greece. Yet the yen has been rising.
The only thing to do is raise the limit and cut spending at the same time. AND raise revenues. Social security cap raise as you mentioned is one way. Dividend income rates are another. Altering Medicare prescription coverage to only allow genetics where available is another. There are countless options.
07-31-2011, 12:45 PM
Ironically the people who mortgaged their grandchildrens futures now actually have grand children. They've been living beyond their means for decades but now they don't want you to touch the programs they are collecting from.Originally Posted by EasyEJL
I see the editorials all the time from seniors complaining about school taxes. They seem to forget that someone was paying those when they were kids in school. Now it's just a burden on them.
I do agree with you though that most people want smaller government. It's just that they disagree over what agencies should exist. One side prefers big brother and the other side prefers social programs.
07-31-2011, 12:51 PM
I'll expand a little Easy....I'm not sure I can think of a single person I know that isn't benefiting from some government program right now. I'm a teacher so of course I don't want public education cut any. My parents are both receiving Social Security so if you took that away from them they would flip. I'm sure my grandmother is benefiting in some way from medicare (I know she gets prescriptions so I'm sure she is saving off some program).
One of my good friends is still in college and he is receiving student loans and sometimes grants from the government. Another one of my friends is in the Army Rangers and has done three tours. And one of my best friends runs a construction company that is basically only working right now because of the stimulus. Hell he's about as far right as possible, but loved the stimulus...it put money back in his pocket!
My ex-girlfriend had her kid on Head Start, and was getting government money for rent. I've had multiple friends on unemployment for stretches. I'm not sure I know ANYONE who isn't seeing some type of help from a government program.
And the thing is they would ALL flip if you took it away while it's benefiting them, or at least be against it if they had a vote on it. So like I said, Americans love to talk small government, but they aren't going to like it if you take away the parts that benefit them.
This is why cutting the national debt is so difficult. We've all grown to the point where we love the government stuff we get and we also think we shouldn't pay new taxes. It just can't work that way, you can't lower the debt without raising taxes, cutting spending, or some combination. We Americans LOVE to talk small government until we are blue in the face...but it damn sure better not effect or bottom line. And that isn't even something I'd say we should be faulted for...at the end of the day we're all looking out for number one to an extent right?
07-31-2011, 01:15 PM
Most unemployment comes from states, not federal government, only the ridiculous extensions come from federal government. And again both studies have found that after the first year on unemployment, people basically "give up" and have gotten used to living on that amount and no longer seriously try to find a job as well as the fact that if the federal government wasn't spending that money there would be more money in private industries to create jobs. And for every $1 that goes out in unemployment benefits from the federal government almost $2 has to come in.
What you are seeing and talking about is the continued growth of people expecting the world to owe them something just because a sperm and an egg met. And thats not reality, and doesn't work anywhere for any significant length of time. Watch the movie IOUSA.
This movie was done by the prior head of the Congressional Budget Office. An accountant, non partisan, and he makes no attempts at placing blame on anyone in particular, just blame in our outrageous spending. But he gives an accounting view of what will happen over the next 20 years if we don't drastically change how we do things. And not raising the debt ceiling is one way to force drastic changes today. Otherwise within 20-40 years tax rates across the board will have to more than double to JUST pay social security and the interest on the national debt without any other programs being funded at all. Rip the baindaid off today, stop kicking the can another generation down the road.
07-31-2011, 01:16 PM
So in a nutshell, people like those programs because they aren't smart enough to understand what the long term consequences of those programs are, or they just don't care because they believe someone else in the future will have to deal with it.
07-31-2011, 01:33 PM
I have seen I.O.U.S.A. and love it. And it's really not important to the overall aspect of my argument. People have come to EXPECT that from the government, hence my whole argument that people aren't actually for small government when the government benefits them. It's not as important how we got here as where we go from here. And you didn't really get to the heart of my argument...that Americans AREN'T for small government. It's something they like to put lip service to. Yet I listen to local political talk and people are all talking things the government SHOULD be doing. It SHOULD be making it illegal to have an abortion. It SHOULD be making it illegal for gays to marry. It SHOULD be fixing these damn potholes in the capital city. And these are "conservatives." Supposedly the people who vote for the party of small government. That doesn't sound like small government to me. It sounds like big government.
Cutting the national debt is actually not difficult, we know exactly how to do it. Raise revenues, cut spending, or both/some combination. The thing that makes it difficult is Americans have come to expect all these things from the government AND believe we should have low taxes. The two just don't jive together if you want a balanced budget.
We have basically been having these types of debates since the beginning of the country though. Hell they were arguing about the national debt big time in the early 1900's. And we will probably continue to kick it down the road until we burst.
07-31-2011, 02:05 PM
Most of the people I know are willing to see cuts in the programs they get value out of today to ensure that they continue, rather than have them go some unknown length of time forwards and then stop entirely.
07-31-2011, 02:15 PM
Did you know we have enough oil in Montana/Dakata to completely 100% get us out of national debt and also supply the US with enough oil until 2040?
Its really not that complicated, but the corruption on all end going on is nearly impossible to remove.
This message was paid for by the Russians
07-31-2011, 03:07 PM
07-31-2011, 03:08 PM
07-31-2011, 03:12 PM
This message was paid for by the Russians
07-31-2011, 04:26 PM
Imagine what the unemployment rate is without wars and the drug war... That's reason enough for them to keep locking up "undesirables".Originally Posted by seccsi
07-31-2011, 04:39 PM
07-31-2011, 04:57 PM
$40,000 a year to feed another person into the prison industrial complex. Cheaper to treat them but you know this country won't go for that. Now we have private prisons to feed.Originally Posted by ax1
Now thats a jobs program!
07-31-2011, 05:16 PM
How about the fact he's quicker to back any republican view before his own party.
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