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  1. solid back and forth here.I still say make a few things legal and tax them to help out the economy.if they drag down the work force due to making them legal then scrap the idea and make them illegal again.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    You are nuts on that. Saying I can't raise the debt that is now more than 6 times my annual income is completely different from an economic perspective than raising your debt when it's 2 years income. There's no hypocrisy, from an accounting or economic perspective its far different.
    What made 6 times the magic mark? Again, Republicans had no problem raising it under Bush 2 when it was higher than 2 years income. Now magically that Obama is in office it's all the sudden too much? They didn't have a problem raising it while Bush was cutting taxes, fighting multiple wars, and sending the American people checks in the mail.

    Republicans wouldn't have had any problem raising it the President had an R by his name either. Again this is just apologizing and moving the goalposts. American citizens were greatly arguing the size of our national debt in the early 1900's. So now magically it's too big? This all goes back to the 2 party system argument and the absurd notion that a Republican in office during these last three years would have acted any different. They would have kept the wars and they would have had a stimulus package and bailed out the auto companies.

    Literally the same people who complain about the growing size of the federal government now are the same people who supported people who did the same thing. Partisan politics at its finest. It's a big deal when "that guy" does it, not a big deal when we do it.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    And "raising" taxes while still keeping them lower than when he took office is about as real as Congress's "cuts" against future planned increases.
    ? Rates are much lower now than they were when Reagan was in office.

    Anyways, I told myself I was done arguing politics on here, it just gets me worked up

    Have a good one people.
  4. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    No they aren't, the rates are higher noe
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  5. Never enough
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    The top tier then was 28%, today its 35%
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    The top tier then was 28%, today its 35%
    Depends on how you want to look at it. For 7 years of the Reagan presidency the tax rate was higher. During all of Reagan's presidency the tax burden was higher as well according to the tax foundation's way of calculating tax burden.

    Taxes on the whole are lower today. Unless you cherrypick one year of Reagan's presidency out of 8.

    Anyways, I'm outta this before I lose my mind. I just don't understand how the right can love Reagan and ignore some of the genuine facts about him. The size of the federal government and the deficit went way up during his tenure. Sure we can make all sorts of excuses for why and do the usual "it wasn't that bad then as it is now" and cherrypick all the stats we want, but it doesn't change the fact in the least bit that:

    1. Reagan raised taxes many times during his tenure AND in a recession (something Republicans say you can't do in a recession AND many have signed a no tax increases pledge).

    2. Reagan raised the debt ceiling many times during his tenure.

    3. The national debt and overall size of government increased during his tenure.

    These are undeniable facts. They can't be changed as they DID happen.
  7. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    On the deficit / debt issue, s&p has downgraded us debt, and the other bureaus have issued warnings due to the size of the deficit and debt, quite different than in Reagan's time. The debt isn't all Obama's fault, but it has gotten too high and needs to change
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    On the deficit / debt issue, s&p has downgraded us debt, and the other bureaus have issued warnings due to the size of the deficit and debt, quite different than in Reagan's time. The debt isn't all Obama's fault, but it has gotten too high and needs to change
    Perhaps, but let's not forget Reagan's own words:

    Reagan warned that without a higher debt ceiling, the country could be forced to default for the first time in its history.

    (1983) Reagan wrote: “The full consequences of a default – or even the serious prospect of default – by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and the value of the dollar.”

    (1987) “Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinksmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar.”

    The American public and politicians have been arguing and fearful of the size of the national debt since its inception.

    Out for real this time, good discussion fellas!
  9. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi

    Perhaps, but let's not forget Reagan's own words:

    Reagan warned that without a higher debt ceiling, the country could be forced to default for the first time in its history.

    (1983) Reagan wrote: "The full consequences of a default - or even the serious prospect of default - by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and the value of the dollar."

    (1987) "Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinksmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar."

    The American public and politicians have been arguing and fearful of the size of the national debt since its inception.

    Out for real this time, good discussion fellas!
    That all is true, however again at that time the total load of the debt and interest was far lower as a percentage of government income, and those same dire consequences are happening anyway as our total debt load is too high today. In his time, raising the debt ceiling didn't still result in a credit downgrade as the current rise in debt ceiling did.
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  10. Never enough
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    In debt and deficit alone, the difference then vs now is then, a person earning $50,000 a year living on spending $62000 a year and having $109,000 in debt vs that same $50,000 a year income spending more than $75,000 a year, and having $350,000 in debt.

    You can see as an individual perspective why its so different today. But definitely there should have been the sustained push to make the fake Clinton surplus into a real one, and bush sucked for passing Medicare part d, and plenty of his other spending. Still I find what he or Reagan chose to spend on more than what Obama has chose to spend on.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    In debt and deficit alone, the difference then vs now is then, a person earning $50,000 a year living on spending $62000 a year and having $109,000 in debt vs that same $50,000 a year income spending more than $75,000 a year, and having $350,000 in debt.

    You can see as an individual perspective why its so different today. But definitely there should have been the sustained push to make the fake Clinton surplus into a real one, and bush sucked for passing Medicare part d, and plenty of his other spending. Still I find what he or Reagan chose to spend on more than what Obama has chose to spend on.
    It's all been one giant snowball. When you grow the federal gov't to insane sizes, it's tough to get it to shrink. People have come to want/expect the things that previous presidents like Reagan, Bushes, Clinton gave them.

    Anyways the funny thing (funny in a make me vomit my guts out sort of way) is listening to all the current Republicans talk about small gov't, reduced spending, let us run things. A lot of these people are the EXACT same ones who under Bush II started the biggest mistake war in American history (Iraq), bailed out huge companies, sent the American people checks in the mail, etc times a million. It's that hypocrisy (and I do think it's blatant hypocrisy) that infuriates me. They had no problems with any of that and the instant Obama gets in NOW they are some type of deficit warriors? They are just pissed it isn't their side spending just like Democrats are when Republicans are in office. But anyways, I gotta go squat

  12. good points here

  13. Quit voting for lawyers and career politicians and elect some accountants. Accountants are ruthless, and like it or not, they'll make the tough decisions to balance the budget.

    Who do you think would be more upset at the accountant, Democrats or Republicans?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Quit voting for lawyers and career politicians and elect some accountants. Accountants are ruthless, and like it or not, they'll make the tough decisions to balance the budget.

    Who do you think would be more upset at the accountant, Democrats or Republicans?
    You say this as if Democrats and Republicans are different.
  15. Never enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi

    You say this as if Democrats and Republicans are different.
    There's definitely been some blurry lines there.....
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  16. Some very valid points being made here accross the board!!

  17. Reagan was an actor in a stage constructed from corporate interest and war profiteering. The only difference between then and now is the actor.

  18. Reagan was a God among men there will never be another that will measure up! Great Thread!

  19. lol

  20. Ronald Reagan was the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon the American people.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ironlonghorn
    Ronald Reagan was the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon the American people.
    State facts. Otherwise you just spout typical left wing crap that is completely unsupported.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    State facts. Otherwise you just spout typical left wing crap that is completely unsupported.
    1. His neo-liberal policies have had devastating consequences on the middle/working class. Real Wages and the standard of living for the middle/working class have fallen against inflation.

    2. Income Inequality has grown vastly.

    3. The government's ability to administer public services effectively were compromised due to his "smaller government" policies.

    4. He is responsible for the Free Market Fundamentalism that has strived for "setting the bull loose'.

    5. His drug policies is responsible for the large amount of social decay in urban African American policies.

    6. He instituted policies in the state of California when he was governor to remove the ability for citizens to open carry weapons in public. This policy was passed specifically to crush to Black Panther for Self Defense movement; a black revolutionary civil rights grouped aimed at policing the arbitrary police forces, as well as improving the livelihoods of the black community, that were brutally beating and killing the African American poor.

    7. He cut taxes severally causing a large deficit to form when he left office. His tax cuts for the rich grew the economy, a very fragile, unreliable and unstable bubble economy, but also put a very hard strain on the middle and working class. The lack of taxation also caused many social safety net programs and institutions to fail; students use to go to college for free in California before the Reagan tax cuts were in effect for example.

    8. His policies were very harsh towards the working poor, especially blacks.

    9. He increased the strength and power of the military-industrial complex that is running up our deficit to this very day with the outrageous increase in defense spending to the detriment of public service spending.

    10. He did not care much for the enviroment; he removed the solar panels on top of the white house for example.

    11.When Reagan entered office the National debt was $ 1 trillion. When he left it was $3.5 Trillion.

    12. Reagan closed down many mental health hospitals; ironically he died of Alzheimer's lol.
  23. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by ironlonghorn View Post
    1. His neo-liberal policies have had devastating consequences on the middle/working class. Real Wages and the standard of living for the middle/working class have fallen against inflation.

    2. Income Inequality has grown vastly.

    3. The government's ability to administer public services effectively were compromised due to his "smaller government" policies.

    4. He is responsible for the Free Market Fundamentalism that has strived for "setting the bull loose'.

    5. His drug policies is responsible for the large amount of social decay in urban African American policies.

    6. He instituted policies in the state of California when he was governor to remove the ability for citizens to open carry weapons in public. This policy was passed specifically to crush to Black Panther for Self Defense movement; a black revolutionary civil rights grouped aimed at policing the arbitrary police forces, as well as improving the livelihoods of the black community, that were brutally beating and killing the African American poor.

    7. He cut taxes severally causing a large deficit to form when he left office. His tax cuts for the rich grew the economy, a very fragile, unreliable and unstable bubble economy, but also put a very hard strain on the middle and working class. The lack of taxation also caused many social safety net programs and institutions to fail; students use to go to college for free in California before the Reagan tax cuts were in effect for example.

    8. His policies were very harsh towards the working poor, especially blacks.

    9. He increased the strength and power of the military-industrial complex that is running up our deficit to this very day with the outrageous increase in defense spending to the detriment of public service spending.

    10. He did not care much for the enviroment; he removed the solar panels on top of the white house for example.

    11.When Reagan entered office the National debt was $ 1 trillion. When he left it was $3.5 Trillion.

    12. Reagan closed down many mental health hospitals; ironically he died of Alzheimer's lol.
    most of those are horsecrap(1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,12) and to make the whole set meaningful beyond not caring about the constitution you'd have to be a liberal and conservative at the same time

    you did leave out one. He moved the income and expenses of social security from being accounted for separately to being a part of general federal income/expenses.
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  24. 5 is **** too. How about you don't do drugs? To blame a law when committing a felony is retarded. Also the law was likely put in place as a deterrent from crack sales, but instead the uneducated massless blame it.
  25. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    5 is **** too. How about you don't do drugs? To blame a law when committing a felony is retarded. Also the law was likely put in place as a deterrent from crack sales, but instead the uneducated massless blame it.
    constitutionally there is no authority for that. It has not affected the use of drugs, if anything it has increased it, along with violence and incarceration rates.
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    constitutionally there is no authority for that. It has not affected the use of drugs, if anything it has increased it, along with violence and incarceration rates.
    He proposed a law and congress passed it. It is constitutionally allowed
  27. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    He proposed a law and congress passed it. It is constitutionally allowed
    no, it isn't. There are specific powers allowed to congress - areas they are allowed to pass laws on.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    no, it isn't. There are specific powers allowed to congress - areas they are allowed to pass laws on.
    You're wrong. I'm not even sure where you are getting this from.

    Reread the constitution and Federal Laws/Codes
  29. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    You're wrong. I'm not even sure where you are getting this from.

    Reread the constitution and Federal Laws/Codes
    No, you are wrong. Congress is authorized to defend our borders, and to regulate interstate commerce. They have no right to regulate possession of a substance, only its sale across state lines. You go back and re-read it. Just because they pass a law does not mean they have constitutional authority to.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    No, you are wrong. Congress is authorized to defend our borders, and to regulate interstate commerce. They have no right to regulate possession of a substance, only its sale across state lines. You go back and re-read it. Just because they pass a law does not mean they have constitutional authority to.
    You're clueless, they're allowed to. They have many more authorizations: creating court systems as they see fit is a huge one.

    I really don't feel like getting into this but I've taken Constitutional Law 3 times in law school, I assure you they can.
  

  
 

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