Muliculturism has Failed
- 02-16-2011, 08:28 AM
They are "flaunting?" our laws immediately upon entering the country illegally. My wife is Mexican and the first generation of her family born here and she is even opposed to the current immigration situation, probably because her parents came here on work visas and natuarlized the right way instead of running across the border in the middle of the night in clear violation of American law.
- 02-16-2011, 09:05 AM
And how many non-hispanic applicants do we get for our housekeeper positions? Zero.
You can stick your head in the sand and pretend we don't need that portion of the labor force to run America, but we absolutely do. We need them as much as they need us.mw2012
02-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Your parents came here legally, so the number of kids they had is irrelevant. I have no hatred towards mexicans at all.
I have disgust for people who think that because they illegally cross a border they have a right to the benefits of being a US citizen. There is and always has been a legal way to come into the US and become a naturalized citizen, and I have a great respect for anyone of any group who does that. I see no reason why 11+ million mexican citizen who committed a crime to be here should be given a preference over the also deserving immigrants around the globe who are making the effort to legally cross the border.
02-16-2011, 09:20 AM
Throwing millions of people on buses and trains (assuming you can find them) is ludicrous. How much money are you willing to spend to eradicate a large and productive portion of our labor force?
02-16-2011, 09:23 AM
And you're honestly willing to kill anyone attempting to cross the border? Would you agree to non-lethal means of enforcement?
02-16-2011, 09:29 AM
"In 1996, it cost Washington state, on average, $23,279 to prosecute a felony and $593 to prosecute a misdemeanor."
So should washington have stopped prosecuting people who stole a car (grand theft auto, a felony) where the car was recovered because it was ludicrous to spend more than the value of the car new to prosecute it? thats not including any jail time for the convictee. Using your logic, it would be ludicrous to prosecute it. It surely won't cost $25k per illegal immigrant to send them home to the country where they are a citizen and have the right to be.
02-16-2011, 09:30 AM
02-16-2011, 09:44 AM
Your wall would cost a fortune. Enough buses and trains to move that many people would cost even more. It would absolutely dwarf whatever money we spend prosecuting car thieves. Would we raise taxes (alot) to pay for it? And then, like I said, we're sabotaging our own economy. I can't imagine an America without the contributions these hard-working people make to our society. Would the produce section at the grocery store be empty? Or would the unemployed be willing to give up free money to go pick lettuce in the fields? And at what wage? Are you ready to pay $15 for a head of lettuce?
02-16-2011, 09:50 AM
See thats the amazing thing, supply vs demand really works. Would it cripple our economy? No, of course not. Things would adjust, as they always do and in the end it would work just fine.
I can certainly easily imagine an america without the contributions of people who are here illegally. And thats of any race or color, there are areas where there are pretty huge amounts of asian illegals, and people who have overstayed student or work visa, etc. We issue those visas, we track them, we track addresses of the people on them, yet when they expire does INS normally even go talk to them? Nope, we just hope they go back on their own.
02-16-2011, 09:54 AM
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I see them as an asset to our country; you see them as a liability. But I've been awake all night (working on something awesome), and I need to get some sleep. Peace...
02-16-2011, 11:18 PM
I would rather have our teens taking the jobs of the illegals and cancel unemployment benefits forcing all citizens to work instead of having open borders. It is the governments responsibility to defend our borders. It should be a military zone. Its not just Mexicans crossing .
02-16-2011, 11:32 PM
Just a few clarifications that I believe need to be shared.
"Immigrant" does not automatically mean a bad person.
"Illegal immigrant" is a bad person by the very definition of the term. If they come to the US illegally to work, they are committing multiple felonies to do so. If a US citizen is convicted of an equivalent crime, they lose the right to vote, own firearms and who knows what the hell else. And yeah, I know that fruit will go up, dishes won't get washed, houses won't get framed etc etc. But, there has got to be a better and safer way to allow these people to work here and pay income taxes.
Being a conservative does not mean you are a racist or that you are culturally insensitive.
02-18-2011, 12:09 AM
This is a long article but worth reading. Illegal Aliens - America's
21st Century Slave Class
While I was reading this, I was wondering if the legal immigrants were working side by side in the same jobs as the illegal immigrants. If they are, then I see a solution to the "who's going to pick our vegetables" argument.
Another thing I was thinking about is...Why doesn't the Mexican government take care of their own people? They have cheap labor. Why can't they design a car, tv , cell phone or appliances? They can open schools to educate the kids and then colleges. The Mexican government change things.
Maybe instead of guarding our boarders, we should expand our borders all the way through South America. The first new buildings could be large prisons for the gangs and drug cartels. Imagine all the roads, buildings, farming, new industry and vacation spots we could have all with cheap labor. All the cheap labor would be taxed and America would thrive again. Most Democrats and Liberals are OK with cheap labor from illegal immigrats anyway so why not expand and make everyone happy. All the Mexican people would be happy to have America come to them. It would be years before they realized we only wanted them for cheap labor...kind of like slaves.(tongue in cheek)
03-04-2011, 10:30 PM
03-04-2011, 11:01 PM
03-07-2011, 11:52 PM
From the United Kingdom to France to Spain to Germany, leaders or former leaders have decried multiculturalism as a poisonous experiment for their nations.
03-08-2011, 12:17 AM
03-12-2011, 02:00 PM
Multiculturalism is quite obviously a failure anywhere you go. You can't have multiple groups who think and act differently and expect them to live peacefully among each other. The very definition of multiculturalism can be summed up as "cluster-fck of beliefs."
Read the US Constitution. If you agree with it, stay in the States. If you don't, you shouldn't be here. - The United States Culture is the United States Constitution; the Supreme Law of the Land. It is NOT a living document. It is NOT flexible.
So many ignorant citizens believe the Constitution to be this massive rule book for their lives when in fact it's a small, almost pamphlet size article that says what the government cannot do.
Case Law has completely fcked up our constitution and has made it completely unrecognizable. It's almost as if they've copied a cassette tape, and made a copy of the copy, and then a copy of that copy, and so on to where the instruments and lyrics can't even be made out anymore.
03-14-2011, 05:55 AM
Multiculteralism does seem to throw a wrench in things. Its one thing to stick in groups and people who speak your natural language when your a first generation immigrant. From what i understand (and have heard directly from my grandma) the immigrants that came here through ellis island wanted to be american. Initially they only knew there culture and language, but the urge to become american is something most of todays immigrants lack. I know hispanics born in america that can barely speak english. In contrast my grandma's mother would only speak english to her children, she refused to let them learn her native language because they were americans now. Todays immigrants run around waving their native coutries flag, talking down the country they are living in, the one that provides them and most likely their entire extended family back home a means of survival. Wtf?
03-14-2011, 06:07 AM
So yes, i'd rather pay 15$ for a head of lettuce than get a cheap one pick by someone who hates my country. i'm sure all our food prices would go up, but atleast the money would stay in the US instead of being western unioned to south america.
03-14-2011, 06:12 AM
03-31-2011, 11:02 PM
I will now never support anything from Utah. Irish Cannon has it right, case law is screwing up the constitution. Utah Grants Amnesty to Illegals. Check out this link...
08-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Hi, everyone. This is my first post and I'd like to say I feel glad to be joining the ranks. I find this forum very interesting for several reasons:
A) Most people on here wouldn't be considered fat, and or lazy which has pretty much become some sort of standard in America... it's nice to connect with people that share my values in basic health consciousness.
B) This forum makes me think of steroids which is ummm.... not PC, but is structured in such a fashion as to promote intelligence, health, and sensibility (and from what I've seen so far doesn't even promote steroid usage but to be honest I haven't had the chance to examine the forum well enough). Awesome, now if only we can all get marijuana legalized too .
C) This politics section of the forum seems to be filled with intellectual people capable of analyzing information and delivering opinion without getting stereotypical, or "current-fashioned" in the defense of their views and stances.
To put it quite simply, I think this is the best forum I have ever witnessed.
Now moving on to your quote ImJ2x, sorry I raped the thread haha.
Obviously, you aren't the type of person that needs to be corrected, I've already seen this in plenty of your well written responses, but I cant help but notice your remark on latin people. Without calling you names you don't deserve to be called, I have to poke a little fun at you. I'm one of three children my mother had when she legally entered the United States from the Dominican Republic. I'm 24, an entrepreneur, a veteran, I live in NYC, and I'm finishing up my bachelors. When you discuss The Great Experiment, I want you to imagine a case study such as mine. A Chicago born native that's seen race relations between blacks and whites evolve over my lifetime.
From my experience you have 2 different types of whites, those that still feel bad about racism, and inequality, and those that are defensive about it. The ones that feel bad tend to overcompensate i.e. "whites can never say nigga" considering how popular the word is in mainstream media, considering how many white people buy albums from black celebrities, and considering just how much black culture has benefitted from white support, I think its safe to use a word that's now considered a term of endearment. I know plenty of whites that wish they can say something like "you my nigga" without fear of persecution. the ones that feel defensive are usually harder to define. they can be racist, they can have disdain for black activists, they can claim reverse racism, they feel cheated by affirmative action, etc. These arent always bad people, they're just tired of looking like the bad guys, and some embrace the role or had bad parenting and backwards communities which encourage racist behavior. The third and unmentioned type of whites are the ones that dont care, they prefer phrases like "to each their own".
Blacks fall into categories as well. Some feel as if the world hates them, and act accordingly. They suffer from low self-esteem, come from all the bad areas, and literally become products of their environments. As we all know, it's a slippery slope, and many can't recover. This perpetuates the "ghetto" mentality, that whites hate blacks and blacks will never get anywhere. On the other hand, you have the MILLIONS of blacks that have thrived, and are now very successful people, and birth successful children. Our freaking president is black for crying out loud. I believe they are the single biggest reason race relations are progressing exponentially. Not only are they living proof that blacks can make it, but also proof that whites arent 'evil'. They strengthen race relations all across the board. The third type of black is the conspiracy theorist. To them all whites are the devil, white news spins black people to be gangsters, and black people are victims. These people strain race relations, and they strain black self-esteem. I think these Al Sharptons of the world are like the racist tea-partyers. Just there to mess it up for everyone.
Everything else is other. hispanics, european-americans (wait are they white?), asians, orientals. We're still on the sidelines.
The comment you made about illegal hispanics can be misconstrued on so many levels. I could go Al Sharpton on you and say all sorts of things about your racist rant and blah, blah, blah. but as an american that has sat on the sidelines of this white/black racism 'thing', I know the only respectful way to put an end to discriminatory behavior is: don't be a douche bro, its not cool. the last thing anyone needs is a disparaging comment made towards hispanics. the last thing anyone needs is a disparaging comment made towards ANY race.
Though its annoying for me to write this, and probably even more annoying for anyone to read it, we have to acknowledge ****ed up **** when we see it. Now I better make sure I dont say anything bad about chinks lmao.
08-12-2011, 09:49 PM
08-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Believing in equality isn't incompatible with believing people who entered the country illegally should be sent back to their homesOriginally Posted by vinnythestick
08-14-2011, 01:55 AM
Wait. WOW, I just realized something.... Ok my complaint was with EasyEJL, Imj2x has nothing to do with this.
Your last comment Easy is true. That wasnt my argument, my argument was in the context of your words. You offhandedly classified every hispanic as an illegal and a baby factory. You singlehandedly transformed a thread which could have been about french multiculturalism into an illegal immigrant discussion. Yes, we all know conservative americans still claim rights to this country, but summarizing the entire shift of american culture with "illegal immigrant baby factories?"
Not to say anything bad about you, but you stereotyped an entire race.
Maybe the face of the country is changing because of the amount of gays that have slipped into mainstream media, or the amount of black americans that have and are finding success, or the insane amount of cultural transformation occuring because of the internet.
I highly doubt border jumpers that pick lettuce and cotton are doing any damage.
08-14-2011, 09:17 AM
I never categorized a race as such, I used federal government statistics on birth rates. And I have no prejudices against any person of any race that has a right to be in this country. I'm married to a Hispanic woman, and have a rainbow of friends.Originally Posted by vinnythestick
But the border jumpers that pick lettuce do cause damage, huge damage. Right now estimates are something over 12 million illegals here. With no access to social security, food stamps, etc, its reasonable to assume the majority are working. Unemployment is around 14 million people. Still they are no harm?
Their children born here are citizens (and recall, the constitutional amendment for that was designed so that when slaves were given rights their children became citizens) which is fine, other than the occurrence of pregnant women border hopping then getting on welfare, food stamps, etc in the child's name after they are born. What's worst about these kids though is that they aren't raised as or to be Americans, the are raised as Mexicans living in America. And that's wrong.
08-14-2011, 01:04 PM
The problem isn't with the illegals themselves, people get mad at the wrong people. If I told you that you could jump this fence and have a lot better life would you do it? I'd say the vast majority of us would. So basically people get mad at those who come here because the opportunity is better. Not to mention I don't think illegals are taking a lot of high quality work. Why are we getting angry at these people and not the business men who hire them?
They are being hired for two reasons...either they will do the work no one else wants (which I think a LOT of people ignore this fact), or they will do the work cheaper. It blows my mind that people get mad directly at these usually uneducated people who are working the crappiest of the crap jobs and not getting mad at the very wealthy people who hire them to save some money. It's a simple fact, if jobs weren't available they wouldn't come over here. You're blaming the wrong people.
I guess that just surprises me. People's beef is with the uneducated guy who's working some of the ****tiest jobs in existence for **** wages and they AREN'T mad at the rich guys sitting on a yacht paying these people less than what they'd pay someone who's legal?
That's when I think race does play a big part in this. I hear people say racist crap about illegal immigrants all the time. And it blows my mind that people would get mad at them and ignore the other guys. Then again I suppose when you're white and racist it doesn't make sense to get mad at a white guy.
Let Maddox talk some sense into these morons: http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart
08-14-2011, 02:37 PM
You again are totally off. They don't work for big corporations, they work for small businesses. And as far as them doing jobs nobody else would do, that's the biggest liberal joke line ever. Those jobs would still need to be done if the illegals weren't here, and people would do them.
The other liberal joke line is the wealthy paying less in taxes. It's just flat out untrue. You can say it all you want, and it makes an emotional line, but the irs data disagrees.
08-14-2011, 02:50 PM
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