I'm afraid of Americans
- 02-15-2011, 05:18 PM
apparently you've never been poor, or haven't had any experience with the welfare system, but I know in my state, state assistance leaves you well below the poverty line if you don't have a job, and if you do have a full-time job, your benefits are cut and you end up in the same place. maybe if we gave people an incentive to acquire sustainable income rather than penalizing them for it, the poor wouldn't want to "stay poor" because it's easier.
- 02-15-2011, 05:21 PM
02-15-2011, 05:25 PM
02-15-2011, 05:27 PM
02-15-2011, 05:29 PM
02-15-2011, 05:33 PM
02-15-2011, 05:34 PM
02-15-2011, 05:37 PM
and you're right, allowing people to starve has payed great dividends to governments in the past... although it's hard to gauge the poverty line in the U.S., roughly 40 million people is a lot to piss off. And does that apply to the mentally ill homeless(20-40%)? I guess we could just take their babies and nuke them, that'd be more efficient. Hell, stick 'em in Arizona, two birds/one stone.
02-15-2011, 05:42 PM
02-15-2011, 05:45 PM
02-15-2011, 05:57 PM
Finding an effective means to control that birthrate is hard though. You could just put birth control in the water, but I know if I grew bitch tits I'd be pissed. Plus wouldn't that be one of those government infringements you were telling me to read about in that Constitution deal. Simply removing benefits would also cause those children to suffer who didn't ask to be raises in a colony of useless, unedcutated, bunnies.
02-15-2011, 06:00 PM
02-15-2011, 08:14 PM
Here's the solution. If you are on government assistance, you can no longer vote. PERIOD! I have had enough of people taking my money, and then they tell me I owe them more! I'll give you what I think you deserve.
02-15-2011, 08:15 PM
And anybody that says you can't make it in society anymore once you become homeless is blind. There are plenty of people that have come back. Is it hard. Yep. Life IS hard, and the only way to change that fact is to RUIN everyone else's lives.
02-15-2011, 08:24 PM
Man...this thread needs a title change to: The thread with the most gross generalizations ever!
sorry but it needed to be said
02-15-2011, 08:25 PM
02-15-2011, 09:13 PM
And, since I'm busy doing homework, I don't have too much time to find official statistics, but here's some stats from usgovernmentspending.com: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...et_2010_4.html
It shows that in 2010:
-3.4% GDP on Welfare
-5.7% GDP on Healthcare
-1% GDP on Education (which is 1% too much, since education is a state's concern, not federal government).
-1.3% GDP on interest.
-.003% GDP on protection (police/fire/prisons/legal)
By my count, that's a little over 10% GDP WASTED. And your comment "What about the fact that half as much money that is spent on social programs goes just towards the INTEREST on national debt" is obviously not true, as welfare expendature alone shows that not to be the case (3.4% / 2 = 1.7% GDP, and we only paid 1.3% GDP on interest). This makes you wrong by AT LEAST .4% GDP (as I'm sure there are other social programs that are not included in these statistics). And the real kicker is, whenever you hear government officials talking about cutting costs, it's always police, firefighters, and prisoners first. But look at the numbers! We hardly spend any money on these things at all, and yet, these and Defense are always the first places to look for cost savings, instead of the real culprits (i.e. the leech protection services). This is what's known as SCARE TACTICS, and liberals have become VERY good at using them.
And, yes, I HAVE been homeless, I've been in jail a few times, I did live in the projects, I GREW UP IN ARIZONA, I was in the military, and I am currently an unemployed student. So what do ya say, am I QUALIFIED?!?
Last edited by diablosho; 02-15-2011 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Added some extra info...just for kicks! :D
02-15-2011, 10:24 PM
I wasn't talking about healthcare specifically, but on the subject of pharmaceutical companies....are you kidding? Pharmaceutical companies spend more money on marketing than development and research. There are countless examples of different drugs the FDA "approved" then recalled shortly after several people died, but surpressed the development of supplements that were more effective with less toxicity in clinical trials. It is the government's job to monitor and either approve or throw out these drugs, but they continue to not only do a piss poor job, but have been notoriously slow to react when they have information that these drugs are INDEED dangerous. When you go to the doctor do you not see that tissue boxes, syringe boxes, etc. are stained with drug ads. Do you not think that the FDA receives generous "donations" from certain drug companies to extradite the approval? If you consider the nature of pharmaceutical companies (i'm not trying to scream conspiracy) what motivaiton do they have to develop cures? If they made a cure, their drug would be taken, the disease would cease, as would the need for the drug. However, if we are chornically ill, we would need to chronically administer a drug to suppress or modulate the symptoms. Much, much more money in that. Just a thought.
02-15-2011, 10:49 PM
02-15-2011, 11:21 PM
I mistook your post for another guy's post with the governmentoverspending deal, however, I'm not sure how I can provide numbers as all that I've said in my last post about the criminilization of marijuana which is common knowledge and academically accepted, airport security which is obvious, the undereducation of police which should be obvious http://www.policeacademyrequirements...te/california/, the efficiency of our judicial system (I merely asked if you had the same experience as me).
As far as FDA recalls of drugs they had deemed fit, this is from their website in 2010: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/.../ucm238565.htm, I care what private companies do that are REGULATED by my taxes. I've not taken any prescription drugs other than when I've had knee surgeries in the last few years, but if I do sometime, I would like to know that I'm being fairly charged (we pay for their development, then to take them a the pharmacy), what I'm taking is safe, and what I'm taking is my best chance at relieving whatever ailment I have acquired. Not to mention despite all of the great things about capitalism, pharma industries, just like any other industry, are in the business to make money. That is why I added my opinon about how the pharmaceutical companies have a stake in our illness.
I could talk all day about prison reform, and yes I am aware of the recdivism rate, however, I see that more as the inefficiency and incompetency of our rehabilitation programs in prison rather than these people are ALL inherently bad. I said nothing about releasing anyone from prison, I don't think that recreational drug users should be incarcerated when 50% of those imprisoned are for drug crimes: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Jails#Data (considering they can't even prevent the influx of drugs into prisons). I am a proponent of the Harm Reduction plan for drug control which has been reported as effective in Vancouver, but time will tell. The government doesn't care all that much if a Housewife in the OC is addicted to Hydro, but if I'm caught with an oz. of weed I go to jail.
02-15-2011, 11:39 PM
i'm outtie though.. i've been posting on different political forums for like 3 hours straight now and now I have to go throw some weights around... this exchange could go on forever... valid points diablo and everyone
02-17-2011, 12:43 PM
02-17-2011, 12:55 PM
02-19-2011, 08:40 PM
Bottom line is that this country is screwed one way or another unless we get back to basics. How about changing immigration policies today? Remember when you had to be sponsored by a family member, who would vouch for you, and if you didn't work would have to support you? Maybe that would get rid of the billboard signs up around many third world country airports that state "Massachusetts offers the best benefits for immigrant families". Yup we do offer the best welfare benefits in the country, and we will lay off every cop and firefighter to keep offering them. Hell our govenor is even tried to sneak, and I mean sneak, a provision in some state statue that would ALLOW ILLEGALS to go to state colleges for FREE. And in Massachusetts they are no longer called "illegal aliens" they are "undocumented workers".
02-19-2011, 08:52 PM
I am all for helping people truly in need, but when a country that is on the verge of bankruptcy is looking for solutions to "intergenerational" welfare, then something has to give. Some families are 4 generations deep in handouts.
One area that needs to be focused on is education. We need to educate these young women that having babies will only make success even harder. Having a baby at a young age without a family and financial support structure compromises that child for its entire childhood. When a single mother chooses to seek independence for herself and "gets a minimum wage job" the child now has no parent at home. This double edge sword is one that needs careful thought. Mom working and making not much more then she would receive in government handouts, and not being there to parent her kid, or her staying at home and trying to instill some values in her child?
02-20-2011, 11:48 AM
All things told, as Machiavelli said
Originally Posted by Machiavelli
03-17-2011, 10:18 AM
03-17-2011, 12:19 PM
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