I'm afraid of Americans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    You are capable of a rebuttal far more intelligent than using the Holocaust as an argumentative ploy.
    Actually, I think DAdams' statement was pretty accurate. If you were to be afraid of any country, wouldn't you be more afraid of a country that commited those attrocities relatively recently (Germany) than a country that allows people to live in poverty if they were comfortable with doing so (US)? And, the holocaust was started roughly 1941-1945 (about 65-70 years ago), so it's also likely that the anti-semitic sentiments and pro-nazi sentiments still remain throughout Germany, as they were passed down from other nazi's. Hell, my grandmother is German, and she has a copy of Mein Kampf in her basement. She scares the HELL out of me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Actually, I think DAdams' statement was pretty accurate. If you were to be afraid of any country, wouldn't you be more afraid of a country that commited those attrocities relatively recently (Germany) than a country that allows people to live in poverty if they were comfortable with doing so (US)? And, the holocaust was started roughly 1941-1945 (about 65-70 years ago), so it's also likely that the anti-semitic sentiments and pro-nazi sentiments still remain throughout Germany, as they were passed down from other nazi's. Hell, my grandmother is German, and she has a copy of Mein Kampf in her basement. She scares the HELL out of me!
    The Holocaust is pertinent to the United States' debt load? Interesting position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    The Holocaust is pertinent to the United States' debt load? Interesting position.
    No, but it is pertinent to the "fear" that the original poster mentioned in the original post. It was just a broad comparison of fear in general, not necessarily limited to economic fear (as I'm not so sure ANY of this thread had anything to do with the O.P.s fear of the United States economy, especially considering his mention of how we defend ourselves, and how much we spend to do it (which is not enough in my opinion after recently separating from the military)). I really don't think his argument was meant to be as black-and-white as you're taking it. And, notice, the original subject line is "I'm afraid of Americans" which is the "fear" that DAdams was addressing when he mentioned "The title of this thread does make me chuckle. Coming from the country that gassed how many?"

    I also think you are being pretty unfair to DAdams by taking his post out of context. I think it's pretty clear what he meant. I don't know, it just seems you are being very condescending (in the way a father speaks to his young son to instill his moral values), but I hope I'm wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    No, but it is pertinent to the "fear" that the original poster mentioned in the original post. It was just a broad comparison of fear in general, not necessarily limited to economic fear (as I'm not so sure ANY of this thread had anything to do with the O.P.s fear of the United States economy, especially considering his mention of how we defend ourselves, and how much we spend to do it (which is not enough in my opinion after recently separating from the military)). I really don't think his argument was meant to be as black-and-white as you're taking it. And, notice, the original subject line is "I'm afraid of Americans" which is the "fear" that DAdams was addressing when he mentioned "The title of this thread does make me chuckle. Coming from the country that gassed how many?"

    I also think you are being pretty unfair to DAdams by taking his post out of context. I think it's pretty clear what he meant. I don't know, it just seems you are being very condescending (in the way a father speaks to his young son to instill his moral values), but I hope I'm wrong.
    You are reaching, on both accounts. Particularly the former.

    On the latter, DA is well-read politically and economically, and fully capable of defending the merits of classically-liberal financial and fiscal policy without resorting to a rebuttal of that flavor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    You are reaching, on both accounts. Particularly the former.

    On the latter, DA is well-read politically and economically, and fully capable of defending the merits of classically-liberal financial and fiscal policy without resorting to a rebuttal of that flavor.
    Care to expand on the "reaching" statement. I figured it was pretty straightforward, especially after my last few sentences. What is reaching about saying, "The title of this thread ("I'm afraid of Americans") does make me chuckle. Coming from the country that gassed how many?" I don't see that as a far stretch. ALL he is saying is that the TITLE is funny, because it's like the pot calling the kettle black. Either way, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I tried to defend him (because I agree with his statement), but I guess I'm just not coming across correctly. Oh, and one more thing, rebuttals taste nasty!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Writing as a German from Germany, I begin to wonder "What is goin' wrong in the US of A"? after reading the newest paydays of hedgefund billionaires and that the defense budget of the U.S.A. is larger than the world's rest combined .... at the same time, record numbers of Americans are dependant on food banks.

    Why is the world's richest country so brutally inequal that not being able to make ends meet means going to bed hungry?
    With regards to the defense budget and poverty, you have to take either a short term view, or a long term view. To lower defense spending and feed the masses today, does just that. It feeds the masses today. It doesn't however feed them tomorrow.

    You can look at how many advances in science came about due to defense spending. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is the lifeblood of tomorrow's innovation, innovation that will continue to help and aid our citizens, not just feed them for a day.

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    Im afraid that the USA is following in the exact foot steps of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire failed because of immigrants that refused to assimilate. Look at this country. Not only do we have immigrants that refuse to assimilate, we pay them to not assimilate, we force others to have to learn thier language, or at least be hassled by having to press #3 for English, we sacrifice our own history and traditions in the name of others religions. We will fall harder then Rome ever did. This country has stemmed so far from its roots that it is sickening. The only people who aren't struggling right now are welfare recepients and millionaires.
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    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
    And here we go! I knew this was going to turn into a Fox News bashing session. You do realize that as of 2010, Germany's public debt (by % GDP) was 74.8% (#22 country in the world, with #1 being Zimbabwe at 241.60%), while the USA is #36 @ 58.90%, right. So, while I do agree that the United States of America has FAR too much debt, you sir FAR outweigh us, by a percentage of GDP. MEANING, Germany owes 74.8% of it's yearly income. We owe 58.90% of our yearly income. That's a 15.9% difference between our 2 countries.
    Oh, and here's my source (CIA): https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2186rank.html
    Now, granted, it's from 2010, but I can't seem to find more current statistics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down
    I would have guessed your age closer to 23 than your listed 33 based on statements like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I can see you are being spoon fed info by CNN, aka Communist News Network. This explains a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    But no reason to become personal.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    What's more to this? I think I detected what I like to call "american retardedness",[/URL]
    Don't whine about it becoming personal after this statement above. You earned it. You are baiting people here so stop being a little b1tch about it when they react. I like my country so EFF off if you don't.

    Throw what stones you want but there would NOT be a Germany had the Allies decided to level it down to the last brick. The US with its mighty defense budget stopped that.

    Surely as educated as you are you have heard of the Marshall Plan? It's easy for you to sit and to criticize from 4000 miles away. If you are so concerned about our debt, have your country repay the money spent enacting the reconstruction of your country. We could use it. Before interest in todays dollars, it's probably about $200 billion equivalent. Until that is settled, you can just remain quiet.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I just don't get it
    That is the most honest and true statement you have made in this entire thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I tend to agree with AE14 - it looks as if America has become a gigantic racket in which it is all about "How can I fill up my pockets on the back of those who are not as smart / influential / unscrupolous as I am".
    FYI, you are describing human kind since the Cro Magnon days at the very least. These just also happen to be some of the lovely traits that cause communism/socialism to fail. You should get out and interact with people more instead of watching so much television.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
    Why are you so afraid of our debt? Its no like we're exporting inflation to Germany! other central bankers are not afraid of our debt in fact they like it and keep buying it by the Billion$ all the time. Part of the reason the US has such massive debt its b/c we can, US treasury backed paper is the safest investment out there thats why we keep issuing more paper
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    Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    FYI, you are describing human kind since the Cro Magnon days at the very least. These just also happen to be some of the lovely traits that cause communism/socialism to fail. You should get out and interact with people more instead of watching so much television.
    I dont think this is what causes communism/socialism to fail. They are destined to fail regardless. However, all other empirical governments are destined to fail. That is human nature. We as a species(regardless of economic affiliation) are too damn greedy, and want to continue our "policies" growth. That always spells the end, as we cant grow indefinitely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.

    Whats funny is the Fox News / Tea Party crowd are the most active in dealing with the debt, by attempting to return the government to its original goals only, and returning social programs to the individual states, which is where it belongs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.
    .
    agreed 100%. The only problem is that politicians have gone so far away from this it is frightening. Regardless of party, they are all wolves in sheeps clothing...all of which is an attempt to be more involved.

    As I said earlier....the parties are so similar now, that it is hard to see anyone who is truly a leader with the best interests of the people
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.

    Whats funny is the Fox News / Tea Party crowd are the most active in dealing with the debt, by attempting to return the government to its original goals only, and returning social programs to the individual states, which is where it belongs.
    Tell that to Obama who repealed what little welfare reform the liberal god Clinton put into effect. This country is being eaten alive by the dole seekers, yet no one will fix it because they will be called "racist".

    In case you are wondering. Obama went back to the "more babies = more money" form of welfare.
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    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

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    IT wouldn't be fair or logical for you to call them anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

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    In the US, the governments first job is to protect the people, not feed them.
    We have the freedom to work or not work, buy new things or keep using our old things. one problem with the US is that the citizens who made their money here have stopped manufacturing here. We used to be a nation that manufactured things. Now we're just consumers. I live in my states capitol and the only jobs here are service related (delivery, hotels, retail) no engineering of the things that are being bought and delivered.
    When the economy was good I bought a new car and most everything else I needed. Many other Americans did. When things got bad My stuff was already paid off so I was ok. The problem is that a lot of,not all, people did what I did and didn't need the "big ticket" items that are usually delivered, sold and bought.( washers, dryers, cars, tv' etc)That was it for most of the jobs in my area. Car dealers closed down and so on. The good news is that Ford built a nice plant in India, helping their economy. The problem here is that a lot of Americans and politicians think Europe is better for some reason and are trying to globalise everything. Socialism feels nice, but doesn't work. If it did THE world power wouldn't be the USA. If we keep leaning the way we have been and listen to the ideas of Europeans we'll be week like them. I don't think war is the only answer to things but when its the last resort, I'm glad my country has the big defense budget. Maybe we should stop protecting and helping other countries though-oh we would be bad Americans for doing that too!
    Last edited by omni; 02-09-2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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    Our OP seems to have abandoned his crusade. LOL....I still chuckle at the title. I guess stupid people that go around pushing buttons SHOULD be afraid of Americans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    In the US, the governments first job is to protect the people, not feed them.
    We have the freedom to work or not work, buy new things or keep using our old things. one problem with the US is that the citizens who made their money here have stopped manufacturing here. We used to be a nation that manufactured things. Now we're just consumers. I live in my states capitol and the only jobs here are service related (delivery, hotels, retail) no engineering of the things that are being bought and delivered.
    When the economy was good I bought a new car and most everything else I needed. Many other Americans did. When things got bad My stuff was already paid off so I was ok. The problem is that a lot of,not all, people did what I did and didn't need the "big ticket" items that are usually delivered, sold and bought.( washers, dryers, cars, tv' etc)That was it for most of the jobs in my area. Car dealers closed down and so on. The good news is that Ford built a nice plant in India, helping their economy. The problem here is that a lot of Americans and politicians think Europe is better for some reason and are trying to globalise everything. Socialism feels nice, but doesn't work. If it did THE world power wouldn't be the USA. If we keep leaning the way we have been and listen to the ideas of Europeans we'll be week like them. I don't think war is the only answer to things but when its the last resort, I'm glad my country has the big defense budget. Maybe we should stop protecting and helping other countries though-oh we would be bad Americans for doing that too!
    You speak the truth, and I just wanted to add some of my comments onto what you said.
    #1: Our governments ONLY job is to protect the STATES, not the people. It's job is to keep the states from fighting with each other, and to defend the nation from enemies, both foreign and domestic. The federal government is NEVER to get involved at the personal level.
    #2: Employers that leave here to go overseas do so not because it is easier (it is not), but because it is more cost effective. Our government is inhibiting job growth and creation on many different levels, and has been for some time (although not to the extent that it is now). Businesses no longer know what their cost liabilities are going to look like, and as such, one can not expect them to hire a new employee. Then, add onto the cost liabilities the tax changes, and the 1099 provision in the Obamacare law that requires them to file a 1099 (Capital Gains) for every sale of $600.00 or more, it starts to get ridiculous. To give an idea, if Sony had to file a 1099 for every PS3 sold that was $600.00+, they would have filed 10.6 MILLION 1099's every year for the last 4.5 years. How much money and time would be wasted filing these provisions, not to mention paying capital gains tax, and not to mention having to hire new employees simply to PROCESS these 1099's. Sony can handle it, many other companies can not, and since they cannot afford to HIRE new employees, they will simply have to become less productive, reassign some employees to process the 1099's, and lay off a few workers (OR cut wages/hours) to make up the lost profits. OR, simply move your company to a country that actually WANTS you to be there employing people. See, our government just expects businesses to eat the loss, which will never happen, nor should it. Omni hit it right on the head, I just wanted to clarify that businesses are being demonized for doing what anybody else would do in their position. Oh, I am SO sure I am going to get wrecked for this, I just wanted to explain!
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    #2: Employers that leave here to go overseas do so not because it is easier (it is not), but because it is more cost effective. Our government is inhibiting job growth and creation on many different levels, and has been for some time (although not to the extent that it is now). Businesses no longer know what their cost liabilities are going to look like, and as such, one can not expect them to hire a new employee. Then, add onto the cost liabilities the tax changes, and the 1099 provision in the Obamacare law that requires them to file a 1099 (Capital Gains) for every sale of $600.00 or more, it starts to get ridiculous. To give an idea, if Sony had to file a 1099 for every PS3 sold that was $600.00+, they would have filed 10.6 MILLION 1099's every year for the last 4.5 years. How much money and time would be wasted filing these provisions, not to mention paying capital gains tax, and not to mention having to hire new employees simply to PROCESS these 1099's. Sony can handle it, many other companies can not, and since they cannot afford to HIRE new employees, they will simply have to become less productive, reassign some employees to process the 1099's, and lay off a few workers (OR cut wages/hours) to make up the lost profits. OR, simply move your company to a country that actually WANTS you to be there employing people. See, our government just expects businesses to eat the loss, which will never happen, nor should it. Omni hit it right on the head, I just wanted to clarify that businesses are being demonized for doing what anybody else would do in their position. Oh, I am SO sure I am going to get wrecked for this, I just wanted to explain!
    --Brian
    I dont necesarily think that it is just a matter of the fed inhibiting growth here. Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I dont necesarily think that it is just a matter of the fed inhibiting growth here. Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.

    Gordon Gecko "Greed is good"

    This is the beauty of human nature...you always want more
    But again, I don't think you can blame a company for looking out for its own self interest, as it has been shown NO ONE is looking out for theirs. Let's examine what makes it so much more cost effective to hire overseas:
    1. Taxes
    2. Tariffs
    3. Wages (no unions strongarming companies into paying workers exorbitant wages, like my uncle making $50.00 an hour to install door panels at the Ford plant)
    All 3 of these things are epidemics in America. Other countries are FIGHTING for our companies to hire THEIR workers, and we are pushing them away! It always comes down to this: If you want employers to hire in your area, you must give them an incentive to do so; they are not hiring agencies. Why shop at Albertson's if you can get the same products at 50% off at Wal-Mart (I know I am exagerating a little bit, but you get the idea). Hence why Wal-Mart (which coincidentally doesn't have labor unions, and is hiring in a recession) is doing so well. EVERYTHING in nature takes the path of least resistance, be it electricity, animals, water, etc. So again, to get employers to hire, you must create an economic environment that would allow a business to justify doing so (lower taxes/penalties, less paperwork requirements, FAIR wages). That WILL bring employers back to the states, but not until then! Hell, we bailed out Chrysler, and they are building the Challenger engines in Mexico and the bodies is Canada. The only time any part of the Challenger is in America is when it is passing through!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
    EXACTLY! If we keep demonizing corporations, we will all end up unemployed CONSUMERS, while other countries will have BOOMING economies. Government is the problem, not companies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    But again, I don't think you can blame a company for looking out for its own self interest, as it has been shown NO ONE is looking out for theirs. Let's examine what makes it so much more cost effective to hire overseas:
    1. Taxes
    2. Tariffs
    3. Wages (no unions strongarming companies into paying workers exorbitant wages, like my uncle making $50.00 an hour to install door panels at the Ford plant)
    All 3 of these things are epidemics in America. Other countries are FIGHTING for our companies to hire THEIR workers, and we are pushing them away! It always comes down to this: If you want employers to hire in your area, you must give them an incentive to do so; they are not hiring agencies. Why shop at Albertson's if you can get the same products at 50% off at Wal-Mart (I know I am exagerating a little bit, but you get the idea). Hence why Wal-Mart (which coincidentally doesn't have labor unions, and is hiring in a recession) is doing so well. EVERYTHING in nature takes the path of least resistance, be it electricity, animals, water, etc. So again, to get employers to hire, you must create an economic environment that would allow a business to justify doing so (lower taxes/penalties, less paperwork requirements, FAIR wages). That WILL bring employers back to the states, but not until then! Hell, we bailed out Chrysler, and they are building the Challenger engines in Mexico and the bodies is Canada. The only time any part of the Challenger is in America is when it is passing through!
    You are right...its shouldnt be a blame issue. However, on the larger scale (corporations) they need to understand the natural consequence (good or bad)

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
    agreed....as I said Gordon Gecko was correct
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    Would you sacrifice your profits and risk losing your business by basing your company in a hostile economic environment, and still have to deal with the protests on your front lawn, death threats simply for being successful, etc., simply because those same people say it's wrong to leave the country? As soon as people start threatening companies for making "too much money", that bar will get lower and lower as time goes on, until everyone is poor (because as an employer, you will close shop when it is no longer profitable to own your business, thus firing all of your employees). What may seem like a small adjustment to us becomes a very large adjustment for them, as they have tax documents, accounting (cost/profit ratio), and many other factors that go into simply hiring one person and figuring out how much they can afford to pay them.

    Lets examine government jobs. Do they count? Nope! Their employees salaries are paid by taxpayers. Lets say there was only one private company left. Those employees would be paying the salaries of every government employee (any time the word government comes up, simply replace the word "government" with "taxpayer/taxpaying"). It just wouldn't work. As such, every time our government hires more people, takes over a business, bails out a company, or takes over an entire SECTOR of our economy, they are simply shifting more burden onto the remaining taxpayers. That is why expanding our government will only lead to socialism, because once the government gets too big (especially with the help of public labor unions), the private sector will no longer be able to shoulder the tax burden required to pay all of those people. Thus, private sector employees will either get a job with the government, or go on welfare, as it will no longer be worthwhile to work (path of least resistance). That spells the end of capitalism. And before you say that's crazy, in the last 3 years, government has expanded to owning 2/3 of the auto industry, the vast majority of the banking industry (Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac home mortgages), a very large part of the defense industry, and soon health care (and I know president Bush started it, lets not get into that type of discussion). And lets not forget about the TSA! And it is only getting bigger! That is a HUGE chunk of the private sector now working for the government, getting paid by the taxpayers. And then people have the balls to threaten the successful private employers, when they are already shouldering a HUGE amount of the debt of the United States! It is so frustrating seeing people blame the employers for their lack of employment, rather than the real culprit, our government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    We wont leave Iraq and Afgahanistan until the last drop oil is pumped outta the last well.

    Oil is gonna run out in under 37 years.

    whats in the middle of Iraq / Afganaistan??! IRAN!! who still has oil. Saudi's Gawhar is pretty much done, the only reason we care about them is cuz they have ~3trillion invested into our stock market.

    this isnt rocketscience. political parties have nothing to do with this, its about money and being a super power. USA = ROME
    is this something you say with pride
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