I'm afraid of Americans

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down
    I would have guessed your age closer to 23 than your listed 33 based on statements like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I can see you are being spoon fed info by CNN, aka Communist News Network. This explains a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    But no reason to become personal.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    What's more to this? I think I detected what I like to call "american retardedness",[/URL]
    Don't whine about it becoming personal after this statement above. You earned it. You are baiting people here so stop being a little b1tch about it when they react. I like my country so EFF off if you don't.

    Throw what stones you want but there would NOT be a Germany had the Allies decided to level it down to the last brick. The US with its mighty defense budget stopped that.

    Surely as educated as you are you have heard of the Marshall Plan? It's easy for you to sit and to criticize from 4000 miles away. If you are so concerned about our debt, have your country repay the money spent enacting the reconstruction of your country. We could use it. Before interest in todays dollars, it's probably about $200 billion equivalent. Until that is settled, you can just remain quiet.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I just don't get it
    That is the most honest and true statement you have made in this entire thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I tend to agree with AE14 - it looks as if America has become a gigantic racket in which it is all about "How can I fill up my pockets on the back of those who are not as smart / influential / unscrupolous as I am".
    FYI, you are describing human kind since the Cro Magnon days at the very least. These just also happen to be some of the lovely traits that cause communism/socialism to fail. You should get out and interact with people more instead of watching so much television.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
    Why are you so afraid of our debt? Its no like we're exporting inflation to Germany! other central bankers are not afraid of our debt in fact they like it and keep buying it by the Billion$ all the time. Part of the reason the US has such massive debt its b/c we can, US treasury backed paper is the safest investment out there thats why we keep issuing more paper
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    Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    FYI, you are describing human kind since the Cro Magnon days at the very least. These just also happen to be some of the lovely traits that cause communism/socialism to fail. You should get out and interact with people more instead of watching so much television.
    I dont think this is what causes communism/socialism to fail. They are destined to fail regardless. However, all other empirical governments are destined to fail. That is human nature. We as a species(regardless of economic affiliation) are too damn greedy, and want to continue our "policies" growth. That always spells the end, as we cant grow indefinitely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Let's not get into detail over what fear stands for exactly and who shall fear whom. The title of this thread might as well have been "Will the United states of debt get its act together or will Fox News / Tea Party activists continue to dumb the country down"?

    News from the racket's inside: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...ng-at-goldman/
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.

    Whats funny is the Fox News / Tea Party crowd are the most active in dealing with the debt, by attempting to return the government to its original goals only, and returning social programs to the individual states, which is where it belongs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.
    .
    agreed 100%. The only problem is that politicians have gone so far away from this it is frightening. Regardless of party, they are all wolves in sheeps clothing...all of which is an attempt to be more involved.

    As I said earlier....the parties are so similar now, that it is hard to see anyone who is truly a leader with the best interests of the people
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I wonder when europe will stop trying to contine to live in a feudal society, just having shifted to calling it socialism instead. The people on the dole and even most of europes working class are just serfs, no different than hundreds of years ago, when the brightest and best began leaving for America, a land of opportunity - not a land of a guaranteed meal. Perhaps you would gain some value by reading the US constitution. The federal government is charged with, and only authorized to perform 2 tasks - protect the borders of the country, and regulate interstate commerce. Everything in the bill of rights initially was rights AGAINST government involvment. There is no right to a free meal, free housing, free medical care. There is only right against government encroachment in your life. I can see how someone coming from a monarchy, or dictatorship based country sees this as hard to understand.

    Whats funny is the Fox News / Tea Party crowd are the most active in dealing with the debt, by attempting to return the government to its original goals only, and returning social programs to the individual states, which is where it belongs.
    Tell that to Obama who repealed what little welfare reform the liberal god Clinton put into effect. This country is being eaten alive by the dole seekers, yet no one will fix it because they will be called "racist".

    In case you are wondering. Obama went back to the "more babies = more money" form of welfare.
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    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

    YouTube - American Stories, American Solutions: 30 Minute Special
    IT wouldn't be fair or logical for you to call them anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but still vital imho - if you take a look at the very first family introduced (beginning a 1:46 min.) in this election message from 2008, would it be fair to call this family "white trash posing as middle class"?

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    In the US, the governments first job is to protect the people, not feed them.
    We have the freedom to work or not work, buy new things or keep using our old things. one problem with the US is that the citizens who made their money here have stopped manufacturing here. We used to be a nation that manufactured things. Now we're just consumers. I live in my states capitol and the only jobs here are service related (delivery, hotels, retail) no engineering of the things that are being bought and delivered.
    When the economy was good I bought a new car and most everything else I needed. Many other Americans did. When things got bad My stuff was already paid off so I was ok. The problem is that a lot of,not all, people did what I did and didn't need the "big ticket" items that are usually delivered, sold and bought.( washers, dryers, cars, tv' etc)That was it for most of the jobs in my area. Car dealers closed down and so on. The good news is that Ford built a nice plant in India, helping their economy. The problem here is that a lot of Americans and politicians think Europe is better for some reason and are trying to globalise everything. Socialism feels nice, but doesn't work. If it did THE world power wouldn't be the USA. If we keep leaning the way we have been and listen to the ideas of Europeans we'll be week like them. I don't think war is the only answer to things but when its the last resort, I'm glad my country has the big defense budget. Maybe we should stop protecting and helping other countries though-oh we would be bad Americans for doing that too!
    Last edited by omni; 02-09-2011 at 01:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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    Our OP seems to have abandoned his crusade. LOL....I still chuckle at the title. I guess stupid people that go around pushing buttons SHOULD be afraid of Americans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    In the US, the governments first job is to protect the people, not feed them.
    We have the freedom to work or not work, buy new things or keep using our old things. one problem with the US is that the citizens who made their money here have stopped manufacturing here. We used to be a nation that manufactured things. Now we're just consumers. I live in my states capitol and the only jobs here are service related (delivery, hotels, retail) no engineering of the things that are being bought and delivered.
    When the economy was good I bought a new car and most everything else I needed. Many other Americans did. When things got bad My stuff was already paid off so I was ok. The problem is that a lot of,not all, people did what I did and didn't need the "big ticket" items that are usually delivered, sold and bought.( washers, dryers, cars, tv' etc)That was it for most of the jobs in my area. Car dealers closed down and so on. The good news is that Ford built a nice plant in India, helping their economy. The problem here is that a lot of Americans and politicians think Europe is better for some reason and are trying to globalise everything. Socialism feels nice, but doesn't work. If it did THE world power wouldn't be the USA. If we keep leaning the way we have been and listen to the ideas of Europeans we'll be week like them. I don't think war is the only answer to things but when its the last resort, I'm glad my country has the big defense budget. Maybe we should stop protecting and helping other countries though-oh we would be bad Americans for doing that too!
    You speak the truth, and I just wanted to add some of my comments onto what you said.
    #1: Our governments ONLY job is to protect the STATES, not the people. It's job is to keep the states from fighting with each other, and to defend the nation from enemies, both foreign and domestic. The federal government is NEVER to get involved at the personal level.
    #2: Employers that leave here to go overseas do so not because it is easier (it is not), but because it is more cost effective. Our government is inhibiting job growth and creation on many different levels, and has been for some time (although not to the extent that it is now). Businesses no longer know what their cost liabilities are going to look like, and as such, one can not expect them to hire a new employee. Then, add onto the cost liabilities the tax changes, and the 1099 provision in the Obamacare law that requires them to file a 1099 (Capital Gains) for every sale of $600.00 or more, it starts to get ridiculous. To give an idea, if Sony had to file a 1099 for every PS3 sold that was $600.00+, they would have filed 10.6 MILLION 1099's every year for the last 4.5 years. How much money and time would be wasted filing these provisions, not to mention paying capital gains tax, and not to mention having to hire new employees simply to PROCESS these 1099's. Sony can handle it, many other companies can not, and since they cannot afford to HIRE new employees, they will simply have to become less productive, reassign some employees to process the 1099's, and lay off a few workers (OR cut wages/hours) to make up the lost profits. OR, simply move your company to a country that actually WANTS you to be there employing people. See, our government just expects businesses to eat the loss, which will never happen, nor should it. Omni hit it right on the head, I just wanted to clarify that businesses are being demonized for doing what anybody else would do in their position. Oh, I am SO sure I am going to get wrecked for this, I just wanted to explain!
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    #2: Employers that leave here to go overseas do so not because it is easier (it is not), but because it is more cost effective. Our government is inhibiting job growth and creation on many different levels, and has been for some time (although not to the extent that it is now). Businesses no longer know what their cost liabilities are going to look like, and as such, one can not expect them to hire a new employee. Then, add onto the cost liabilities the tax changes, and the 1099 provision in the Obamacare law that requires them to file a 1099 (Capital Gains) for every sale of $600.00 or more, it starts to get ridiculous. To give an idea, if Sony had to file a 1099 for every PS3 sold that was $600.00+, they would have filed 10.6 MILLION 1099's every year for the last 4.5 years. How much money and time would be wasted filing these provisions, not to mention paying capital gains tax, and not to mention having to hire new employees simply to PROCESS these 1099's. Sony can handle it, many other companies can not, and since they cannot afford to HIRE new employees, they will simply have to become less productive, reassign some employees to process the 1099's, and lay off a few workers (OR cut wages/hours) to make up the lost profits. OR, simply move your company to a country that actually WANTS you to be there employing people. See, our government just expects businesses to eat the loss, which will never happen, nor should it. Omni hit it right on the head, I just wanted to clarify that businesses are being demonized for doing what anybody else would do in their position. Oh, I am SO sure I am going to get wrecked for this, I just wanted to explain!
    --Brian
    I dont necesarily think that it is just a matter of the fed inhibiting growth here. Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.

    Gordon Gecko "Greed is good"

    This is the beauty of human nature...you always want more
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I dont necesarily think that it is just a matter of the fed inhibiting growth here. Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.

    Gordon Gecko "Greed is good"

    This is the beauty of human nature...you always want more
    But again, I don't think you can blame a company for looking out for its own self interest, as it has been shown NO ONE is looking out for theirs. Let's examine what makes it so much more cost effective to hire overseas:
    1. Taxes
    2. Tariffs
    3. Wages (no unions strongarming companies into paying workers exorbitant wages, like my uncle making $50.00 an hour to install door panels at the Ford plant)
    All 3 of these things are epidemics in America. Other countries are FIGHTING for our companies to hire THEIR workers, and we are pushing them away! It always comes down to this: If you want employers to hire in your area, you must give them an incentive to do so; they are not hiring agencies. Why shop at Albertson's if you can get the same products at 50% off at Wal-Mart (I know I am exagerating a little bit, but you get the idea). Hence why Wal-Mart (which coincidentally doesn't have labor unions, and is hiring in a recession) is doing so well. EVERYTHING in nature takes the path of least resistance, be it electricity, animals, water, etc. So again, to get employers to hire, you must create an economic environment that would allow a business to justify doing so (lower taxes/penalties, less paperwork requirements, FAIR wages). That WILL bring employers back to the states, but not until then! Hell, we bailed out Chrysler, and they are building the Challenger engines in Mexico and the bodies is Canada. The only time any part of the Challenger is in America is when it is passing through!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Companies realize how much more cost effective it is, and with the desire for greater profit margins (not helping their own countrymen) they grow abroad.
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
    EXACTLY! If we keep demonizing corporations, we will all end up unemployed CONSUMERS, while other countries will have BOOMING economies. Government is the problem, not companies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    But again, I don't think you can blame a company for looking out for its own self interest, as it has been shown NO ONE is looking out for theirs. Let's examine what makes it so much more cost effective to hire overseas:
    1. Taxes
    2. Tariffs
    3. Wages (no unions strongarming companies into paying workers exorbitant wages, like my uncle making $50.00 an hour to install door panels at the Ford plant)
    All 3 of these things are epidemics in America. Other countries are FIGHTING for our companies to hire THEIR workers, and we are pushing them away! It always comes down to this: If you want employers to hire in your area, you must give them an incentive to do so; they are not hiring agencies. Why shop at Albertson's if you can get the same products at 50% off at Wal-Mart (I know I am exagerating a little bit, but you get the idea). Hence why Wal-Mart (which coincidentally doesn't have labor unions, and is hiring in a recession) is doing so well. EVERYTHING in nature takes the path of least resistance, be it electricity, animals, water, etc. So again, to get employers to hire, you must create an economic environment that would allow a business to justify doing so (lower taxes/penalties, less paperwork requirements, FAIR wages). That WILL bring employers back to the states, but not until then! Hell, we bailed out Chrysler, and they are building the Challenger engines in Mexico and the bodies is Canada. The only time any part of the Challenger is in America is when it is passing through!
    You are right...its shouldnt be a blame issue. However, on the larger scale (corporations) they need to understand the natural consequence (good or bad)

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    whats funny there is that the vast majority of individuals are exactly the same way. They'll buy crappy chinese goods because they are cheaper. Or they'll buy a stolen flatscreen TV because its only $200 instead of the $500 at the store. Or etc etc etc. It is a general human pattern, not something limited to corporations.
    agreed....as I said Gordon Gecko was correct
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    Would you sacrifice your profits and risk losing your business by basing your company in a hostile economic environment, and still have to deal with the protests on your front lawn, death threats simply for being successful, etc., simply because those same people say it's wrong to leave the country? As soon as people start threatening companies for making "too much money", that bar will get lower and lower as time goes on, until everyone is poor (because as an employer, you will close shop when it is no longer profitable to own your business, thus firing all of your employees). What may seem like a small adjustment to us becomes a very large adjustment for them, as they have tax documents, accounting (cost/profit ratio), and many other factors that go into simply hiring one person and figuring out how much they can afford to pay them.

    Lets examine government jobs. Do they count? Nope! Their employees salaries are paid by taxpayers. Lets say there was only one private company left. Those employees would be paying the salaries of every government employee (any time the word government comes up, simply replace the word "government" with "taxpayer/taxpaying"). It just wouldn't work. As such, every time our government hires more people, takes over a business, bails out a company, or takes over an entire SECTOR of our economy, they are simply shifting more burden onto the remaining taxpayers. That is why expanding our government will only lead to socialism, because once the government gets too big (especially with the help of public labor unions), the private sector will no longer be able to shoulder the tax burden required to pay all of those people. Thus, private sector employees will either get a job with the government, or go on welfare, as it will no longer be worthwhile to work (path of least resistance). That spells the end of capitalism. And before you say that's crazy, in the last 3 years, government has expanded to owning 2/3 of the auto industry, the vast majority of the banking industry (Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac home mortgages), a very large part of the defense industry, and soon health care (and I know president Bush started it, lets not get into that type of discussion). And lets not forget about the TSA! And it is only getting bigger! That is a HUGE chunk of the private sector now working for the government, getting paid by the taxpayers. And then people have the balls to threaten the successful private employers, when they are already shouldering a HUGE amount of the debt of the United States! It is so frustrating seeing people blame the employers for their lack of employment, rather than the real culprit, our government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    We wont leave Iraq and Afgahanistan until the last drop oil is pumped outta the last well.

    Oil is gonna run out in under 37 years.

    whats in the middle of Iraq / Afganaistan??! IRAN!! who still has oil. Saudi's Gawhar is pretty much done, the only reason we care about them is cuz they have ~3trillion invested into our stock market.

    this isnt rocketscience. political parties have nothing to do with this, its about money and being a super power. USA = ROME
    is this something you say with pride
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicFrenz View Post
    The top 1% pay 39% of all federal taxes, the top 25% pay about 86%, and the top 50% pay 97%.

    The majority of the poor here stay poor cause it is easy for them. If they get everything for free anyway why work for it. If you have found a way to make money, started a business, worked your way up, whatever, why should you be punished so that someone who has not been able to accomplish what you did can live better?

    apparently you've never been poor, or haven't had any experience with the welfare system, but I know in my state, state assistance leaves you well below the poverty line if you don't have a job, and if you do have a full-time job, your benefits are cut and you end up in the same place. maybe if we gave people an incentive to acquire sustainable income rather than penalizing them for it, the poor wouldn't want to "stay poor" because it's easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    apparently you've never been poor, or haven't had any experience with the welfare system, but I know in my state, state assistance leaves you well below the poverty line if you don't have a job, and if you do have a full-time job, your benefits are cut and you end up in the same place. maybe if we gave people an incentive to acquire sustainable income rather than penalizing them for it, the poor wouldn't want to "stay poor" because it's easier.
    Or if we stopped giving them the handouts in the first place, and they'd be homeless and starve to death unless they got off their lazy asses and did something. Maybe that would motivate them. You'd think homelessness and starvation would be motivational wouldn't you?
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    Yeah, the good ole USA has just got it all bass ackwards (sarcasm disclaimer). Europe is where it's at. We should take better notes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    EXACTLY! If we keep demonizing corporations, we will all end up unemployed CONSUMERS, while other countries will have BOOMING economies. Government is the problem, not companies.
    End up? I thought that was what was going on now. We live in a country in which Lady Gaga is one of the most influential women. Revolutionary France condemned and were outraged by the fact Marie Antoinette would wear fancy hair hats and buy pretty kittens while people were unemployed and starving (obviously a more dire situation than we are in now), but we have people sitting on their asses at home on state assistance with a full stack of People magazines wondering how they could get Kim Kardashian's new fragrance line or gawking at how cool Jay Leno's new mutil-million dollar ranch is that he needs to store is chin at. Consumerism drives capitalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Or if we stopped giving them the handouts in the first place, and they'd be homeless and starve to death unless they got off their lazy asses and did something. Maybe that would motivate them. You'd think homelessness and starvation would be motivational wouldn't you?
    motivate them to do what? Get a job at McDonald's at minimum wage full-time then still make car payments, rent, insurance, etc.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    motivate them to do what? Get a job at McDonald's at minimum wage full-time then still make car payments, rent, insurance, etc.?
    Who says "everyone" has to own a car?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    motivate them to do what? Get a job at McDonald's at minimum wage full-time then still make car payments, rent, insurance, etc.?
    Please read the constitution and bill of rights. It's all about what the government won't do to interfere with your life, not what the government owes you. Car payments? Maybe living inside your means is a better option, or not having children you can't afford to feed.
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    and you're right, allowing people to starve has payed great dividends to governments in the past... although it's hard to gauge the poverty line in the U.S., roughly 40 million people is a lot to piss off. And does that apply to the mentally ill homeless(20-40%)? I guess we could just take their babies and nuke them, that'd be more efficient. Hell, stick 'em in Arizona, two birds/one stone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Please read the constitution and bill of rights. It's all about what the government won't do to interfere with your life, not what the government owes you. Car payments? Maybe living inside your means is a better option, or not having children you can't afford to feed.
    Wow, if that's all the Constitution and Bill of Rights entail, I'm surprised we don't have more pissed off people in this country. I wish the FDA would read the Constitution so that I could buy any chemical I want to put in my body. I do second your stance on having children you can't feed. One slip-up is understandable, like 10 is a little redundant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    Wow, if that's all the Constitution and Bill of Rights entail, I'm surprised we don't have more pissed off people in this country. I wish the FDA would read the Constitution so that I could buy any chemical I want to put in my body. I do second your stance on having children you can't feed. One slip-up is understandable, like 10 is a little redundant.
    birthrate per 1000 women on welfare is 3x the birthrate per 1000 women not on welfare. You create a serf class, and they remain that, and live that way indefinitely. Remove that prop, and they'll be forced to do things differently, or die. Its unfair that they outbreed the rest of the population, and then ignore the children to raise useless uneducated losers like themselves.
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    Finding an effective means to control that birthrate is hard though. You could just put birth control in the water, but I know if I grew bitch tits I'd be pissed. Plus wouldn't that be one of those government infringements you were telling me to read about in that Constitution deal. Simply removing benefits would also cause those children to suffer who didn't ask to be raises in a colony of useless, unedcutated, bunnies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    Finding an effective means to control that birthrate is hard though. You could just put birth control in the water, but I know if I grew bitch tits I'd be pissed. Plus wouldn't that be one of those government infringements you were telling me to read about in that Constitution deal. Simply removing benefits would also cause those children to suffer who didn't ask to be raises in a colony of useless, unedcutated, bunnies.
    So the children suffer, some starve and die. It means the next generation of useless slugs leeching off society will be smaller. I don't see the problem there.
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    Here's the solution. If you are on government assistance, you can no longer vote. PERIOD! I have had enough of people taking my money, and then they tell me I owe them more! I'll give you what I think you deserve.
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    And anybody that says you can't make it in society anymore once you become homeless is blind. There are plenty of people that have come back. Is it hard. Yep. Life IS hard, and the only way to change that fact is to RUIN everyone else's lives.
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    Man...this thread needs a title change to: The thread with the most gross generalizations ever!

    sorry but it needed to be said
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Here's the solution. If you are on government assistance, you can no longer vote. PERIOD! I have had enough of people taking my money, and then they tell me I owe them more! I'll give you what I think you deserve.
    But you have no problem with the government taking your money for friviolous spending? Or the funding of pharmaceutical companies that end up putting out drugs like Vioxx, that kill people? Do you even know how much of your taxes go to social programs? What about the fact that half as much money that is spent on social programs goes just towards the INTEREST on national debt. And you must have been homeless considering your expertise on the subject. In my opinion you are oversimplifying the problem in using people on government assistance as a scapegoat. Realistically, I don't think a whole lot of people on government assistance vote anyway, and even if they do, you are seriously overestimating the power of your vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    But you have no problem with the government taking your money for friviolous spending? Or the funding of pharmaceutical companies that end up putting out drugs like Vioxx, that kill people? Do you even know how much of your taxes go to social programs? What about the fact that half as much money that is spent on social programs goes just towards the INTEREST on national debt. And you must have been homeless considering your expertise on the subject. In my opinion you are oversimplifying the problem in using people on government assistance as a scapegoat. Realistically, I don't think a whole lot of people on government assistance vote anyway, and even if they do, you are seriously overestimating the power of your vote.
    Oh God, this topic again....Ugghh...look. I have a HUGE problem with the government taking ANY of my money, unless it is going towards firefighters, police, or military. **** the IRS, **** welfare, **** medicare, **** ALL of that ****. I just don't care. The reason healtchare is so expensive is BECAUSE of medicare. Since the government is paying (and they really do NOT look at prices), the doctors/pharms charge more. But since it is illegal to charge more for one group than another, they increase the cost for us as well, which increases the cost of our health insurance. I am MORE than willing to help people that CANNOT help themselves, but that is not the case here. And, our government does not fund pharmaceutical companies. They may give grants for studies and what not, but to the best of my recollection, our government has yet to purchase a pharmaceutical company.

    And, since I'm busy doing homework, I don't have too much time to find official statistics, but here's some stats from usgovernmentspending.com: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...et_2010_4.html

    It shows that in 2010:
    -3.4% GDP on Welfare
    -5.7% GDP on Healthcare
    -1% GDP on Education (which is 1% too much, since education is a state's concern, not federal government).
    -1.3% GDP on interest.
    -.003% GDP on protection (police/fire/prisons/legal)

    By my count, that's a little over 10% GDP WASTED. And your comment "What about the fact that half as much money that is spent on social programs goes just towards the INTEREST on national debt" is obviously not true, as welfare expendature alone shows that not to be the case (3.4% / 2 = 1.7% GDP, and we only paid 1.3% GDP on interest). This makes you wrong by AT LEAST .4% GDP (as I'm sure there are other social programs that are not included in these statistics). And the real kicker is, whenever you hear government officials talking about cutting costs, it's always police, firefighters, and prisoners first. But look at the numbers! We hardly spend any money on these things at all, and yet, these and Defense are always the first places to look for cost savings, instead of the real culprits (i.e. the leech protection services). This is what's known as SCARE TACTICS, and liberals have become VERY good at using them.

    And, yes, I HAVE been homeless, I've been in jail a few times, I did live in the projects, I GREW UP IN ARIZONA, I was in the military, and I am currently an unemployed student. So what do ya say, am I QUALIFIED?!?
    Last edited by diablosho; 02-15-2011 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Added some extra info...just for kicks! :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Oh God, this topic again....Ugghh...look. I have a HUGE problem with the government taking ANY of my money, unless it is going towards firefighters, police, or military. **** the IRS, **** welfare, **** medicare, **** ALL of that ****. I just don't care. The reason healtchare is so expensive is BECAUSE of medicare. Since the government is paying (and they really do NOT look at prices), the doctors/pharms charge more. But since it is illegal to charge more for one group than another, they increase the cost for us as well, which increases the cost of our health insurance. I am MORE than willing to help people that CANNOT help themselves, but that is not the case here. And, our government does not fund pharmaceutical companies. They may give grants for studies and what not, but to the best of my recollection, our government has yet to purchase a pharmaceutical company.

    And, since I'm busy doing homework, I don't have too much time to find official statistics, but here's some stats from usgovernmentspending.com: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...et_2010_4.html

    It shows that in 2010:
    -3.4% GDP on Welfare
    -5.7% GDP on Healthcare
    -1% GDP on Education (which is 1% too much, since education is a state's concern, not federal government).
    -1.3% GDP on interest.
    -.003% GDP on protection (police/fire/prisons/legal)

    By my count, that's a little over 10% GDP WASTED. And your comment "What about the fact that half as much money that is spent on social programs goes just towards the INTEREST on national debt" is obviously not true, as welfare expendature alone shows that not to be the case (3.4% / 2 = 1.7% GDP, and we only paid 1.3% GDP on interest). This makes you wrong by AT LEAST .4% GDP (as I'm sure there are other social programs that are not included in these statistics). And the real kicker is, whenever you hear government officials talking about cutting costs, it's always police, firefighters, and prisoners first. But look at the numbers! We hardly spend any money on these things at all, and yet, these and Defense are always the first places to look for cost savings, instead of the real culprits (i.e. the leech protection services). This is what's known as SCARE TACTICS, and liberals have become VERY good at using them.

    And, yes, I HAVE been homeless, I've been in jail a few times, I did live in the projects, I GREW UP IN ARIZONA, I was in the military, and I am currently an unemployed student. So what do ya say, am I QUALIFIED?!?
    well i'm sorry you take open discussion personal, but notice you got your statistics from "governmentoverspending.com".. .and i hardly call .4% WAY off base, now you're just splitting hairs. Why don't you look at the numbers? We have 5% of the world's population and incarcerate 25% of the world's prisoners. I don't call that prison cuts. These SCARE TACTICS you speak of (which in no way can you rationalize to one politcal party but to American government as a whole) are exactly what I'm talking about. I do think our police are underfunded and undereducated, but they have us so convinced another terrorist attack is imminent that we don't bat an eyelash at the fact that our Defense fund is draining our economy and shorting what is labled as "protection" in your numbers. What technique does our government always employ? When hemp was threatening the timber industry, marijuana supposedly made minorities rape white women. Airport security is more difficult to get through than Fort Knox. Our police have less education than a lot of people, and less training than our military, but on a micro-level govern a lot of what we do as citizens as they drive around in their thrifty cars with guns when we hope we don't get pulled over for something trivial whenever we see them. You say you've been in jail so you know how belated our justice system is, I received a jail sentence for something I was charged with 18 months previous to my sentencing, and I even took a plea deal. Underfunding is prevalent, but I also think we need to take efficiency into consideration.


    I wasn't talking about healthcare specifically, but on the subject of pharmaceutical companies....are you kidding? Pharmaceutical companies spend more money on marketing than development and research. There are countless examples of different drugs the FDA "approved" then recalled shortly after several people died, but surpressed the development of supplements that were more effective with less toxicity in clinical trials. It is the government's job to monitor and either approve or throw out these drugs, but they continue to not only do a piss poor job, but have been notoriously slow to react when they have information that these drugs are INDEED dangerous. When you go to the doctor do you not see that tissue boxes, syringe boxes, etc. are stained with drug ads. Do you not think that the FDA receives generous "donations" from certain drug companies to extradite the approval? If you consider the nature of pharmaceutical companies (i'm not trying to scream conspiracy) what motivaiton do they have to develop cures? If they made a cure, their drug would be taken, the disease would cease, as would the need for the drug. However, if we are chornically ill, we would need to chronically administer a drug to suppress or modulate the symptoms. Much, much more money in that. Just a thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    well i'm sorry you take open discussion personal, but notice you got your statistics from "governmentoverspending.com".. .and i hardly call .4% WAY off base, now you're just splitting hairs. Why don't you look at the numbers? We have 5% of the world's population and incarcerate 25% of the world's prisoners. I don't call that prison cuts. These SCARE TACTICS you speak of (which in no way can you rationalize to one politcal party but to American government as a whole) are exactly what I'm talking about. I do think our police are underfunded and undereducated, but they have us so convinced another terrorist attack is imminent that we don't bat an eyelash at the fact that our Defense fund is draining our economy and shorting what is labled as "protection" in your numbers. What technique does our government always employ? When hemp was threatening the timber industry, marijuana supposedly made minorities rape white women. Airport security is more difficult to get through than Fort Knox. Our police have less education than a lot of people, and less training than our military, but on a micro-level govern a lot of what we do as citizens as they drive around in their thrifty cars with guns when we hope we don't get pulled over for something trivial whenever we see them. You say you've been in jail so you know how belated our justice system is, I received a jail sentence for something I was charged with 18 months previous to my sentencing, and I even took a plea deal. Underfunding is prevalent, but I also think we need to take efficiency into consideration.


    I wasn't talking about healthcare specifically, but on the subject of pharmaceutical companies....are you kidding? Pharmaceutical companies spend more money on marketing than development and research. There are countless examples of different drugs the FDA "approved" then recalled shortly after several people died, but surpressed the development of supplements that were more effective with less toxicity in clinical trials. It is the government's job to monitor and either approve or throw out these drugs, but they continue to not only do a piss poor job, but have been notoriously slow to react when they have information that these drugs are INDEED dangerous. When you go to the doctor do you not see that tissue boxes, syringe boxes, etc. are stained with drug ads. Do you not think that the FDA receives generous "donations" from certain drug companies to extradite the approval? If you consider the nature of pharmaceutical companies (i'm not trying to scream conspiracy) what motivaiton do they have to develop cures? If they made a cure, their drug would be taken, the disease would cease, as would the need for the drug. However, if we are chornically ill, we would need to chronically administer a drug to suppress or modulate the symptoms. Much, much more money in that. Just a thought.
    Alright dude, I really don't have the inclination to do all the research in this discussion. Time for you to pony up some numbers like I did. I got my information from USGOVERNMENTSPENDING.com (which I'm assuming you didn't look at), not governmentoverspending.com. I don't even know where you got that website from. And .4% GDP is significant! Hell, that's almost 1/3rd (if I remember correctly) as much as we spent on interest alone! And again, pharmaceutical companies are PRIVATE companies, so the fact that they are advertising is not a concern of mine. Why do you care how much money pharmaceutical companies spend and on what? And of all the people to suggest cutting police or firefighters, how many were republicans? Now, if you want to talk about prisoners, they are there because they belong there...true story. Look at the recividism rate (I believe it was 60% or so). Do you think that they just HAPPENED to be discriminated against by the police MULTIPLE times! Come on! Hell, I was arrested for selling weed a few times, so I know something about recividism. It's difficult to make a change, but it's doable! Of all the things to cut, you're willing to let criminals go free without doing their time, because we have a bunch of criminals?!? And the only thing I took personally in your last post was that you acted like you knew me, and made broad generalizing statements about my past, which you could not possibly know about, in an attempt to discredit me. So no, I have no problem with open discussion, but the minute you attempt to discredit me on fallacies and false assumptions, we will have problems.
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    I mistook your post for another guy's post with the governmentoverspending deal, however, I'm not sure how I can provide numbers as all that I've said in my last post about the criminilization of marijuana which is common knowledge and academically accepted, airport security which is obvious, the undereducation of police which should be obvious http://www.policeacademyrequirements...te/california/, the efficiency of our judicial system (I merely asked if you had the same experience as me).


    As far as FDA recalls of drugs they had deemed fit, this is from their website in 2010: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/.../ucm238565.htm, I care what private companies do that are REGULATED by my taxes. I've not taken any prescription drugs other than when I've had knee surgeries in the last few years, but if I do sometime, I would like to know that I'm being fairly charged (we pay for their development, then to take them a the pharmacy), what I'm taking is safe, and what I'm taking is my best chance at relieving whatever ailment I have acquired. Not to mention despite all of the great things about capitalism, pharma industries, just like any other industry, are in the business to make money. That is why I added my opinon about how the pharmaceutical companies have a stake in our illness.

    I could talk all day about prison reform, and yes I am aware of the recdivism rate, however, I see that more as the inefficiency and incompetency of our rehabilitation programs in prison rather than these people are ALL inherently bad. I said nothing about releasing anyone from prison, I don't think that recreational drug users should be incarcerated when 50% of those imprisoned are for drug crimes: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Jails#Data (considering they can't even prevent the influx of drugs into prisons). I am a proponent of the Harm Reduction plan for drug control which has been reported as effective in Vancouver, but time will tell. The government doesn't care all that much if a Housewife in the OC is addicted to Hydro, but if I'm caught with an oz. of weed I go to jail.
  

  
 

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