Oh the perpetual world of double standards....

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    Oh the perpetual world of double standards....


    Cleric Rusli Hasbi told 1,000 worshippers attending Friday morning prayers in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, that whether or not he burns the Quran, Jones had already "hurt the heart of the Muslim world."

    "If he'd gone through with it, it would have been tantamount to war," the cleric said in the coastal town of Lhokseumawe. "A war that would have rallied Muslims all over the world."
    Tantamount to war? the action of one individual tantamount to declaring war? Why is it that the actions of the men on 9/11 in the name of Islam wasn't enough to declare war against Islam then? Why did so few Imams speak out in rage against the "bombing" of civilian US targets by airplane crashes? Any group that wouldn't call that a reason for war against Islam can't consider the action by 1 lone pastor affecting only paper a call for war, unless they are irrational.

    I only look for consistentcy, and a lack of hypocrisy. Its not the Muslim faith that is the problem, but any religion taken to ridiculous extremes.

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    In all fairness, the US did start the bombings of Muslims before 9/11. This war between Muslims and Christians has been going on for over a thousand years and it will only continue to escalate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    In all fairness, the US did start the bombings of Muslims before 9/11. This war between Muslims and Christians has been going on for over a thousand years and it will only continue to escalate.
    Oh sure, and Osama Bin Laden attempted to bomb the world trade center with a crappy rental van too

    And its true, it will only continue to escalate, but from what it looks like in terms of how our government officially acts that we'll just slowly allow the islamification of the US, as they are slowly moving us towards socialism by calling the policies "progressive" instead of socialistic.

    I'm all for being tolerant of Muslims way of life, so long as they are tolerant of ours. Sadly however, this isn't the case.

    Its sort of the same with race relations, and many things. The government bends to the squeaky wheel, or the group they think they can use for their own agenda, ignoring what ideals this country was founded on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Oh sure, and Osama Bin Laden attempted to bomb the world trade center with a crappy rental van too

    And its true, it will only continue to escalate, but from what it looks like in terms of how our government officially acts that we'll just slowly allow the islamification of the US, as they are slowly moving us towards socialism by calling the policies "progressive" instead of socialistic.

    I'm all for being tolerant of Muslims way of life, so long as they are tolerant of ours. Sadly however, this isn't the case.

    Its sort of the same with race relations, and many things. The government bends to the squeaky wheel, or the group they think they can use for their own agenda, ignoring what ideals this country was founded on.
    We've been bombing Iraq for 20 years now. The thing that really pissed me off about 9/11 was the US outrage. Where was this outrage when the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya or over the USS Cole?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    We've been bombing Iraq for 20 years now. The thing that really pissed me off about 9/11 was the US outrage. Where was this outrage when the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya or over the USS Cole?
    Really.. you were pissed off that America was outraged that America was attacked on American soil by American jet liners?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Really.. you were pissed off that America was outraged that America was attacked on American soil by American jet liners?
    It wasn't the act itself; it was the lack of response to the aforementioned incidents. It was foolish to think that, at some point, they wouldn't make their way to US soil. I know that our government isn't great at being proactive (to some extent), but it's not like it was a small event.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    We've been bombing Iraq for 20 years now. The thing that really pissed me off about 9/11 was the US outrage. Where was this outrage when the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya or over the USS Cole?
    Yeah, tit for tat goes on forever though, until everyone on one side or the other is dead. The hutus and tutsis in Rwanda and Burundi are a great example of that.

    The 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings occurred on August 7, 1998. Hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous truck bomb explosions at the United States embassies in the major East African cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya. The attacks, linked to local members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad brought Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri to American attention for the first time, and resulted in the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation placing bin Laden on its Ten Most Wanted list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It wasn't the act itself; it was the lack of response to the aforementioned incidents. It was foolish to think that, at some point, they wouldn't make their way to US soil. I know that our government isn't great at being proactive (to some extent), but it's not like it was a small event.
    I remember those, and I do remember the huge outcry from America at the time. And I also remember clinton was in office for all 3 of those, which was one reason he was looked at as a coward. The USS Cole was responded to when Bush responded to 9/11 since both were done by the same terrorist organization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I remember those, and I do remember the huge outcry from America at the time. And I also remember clinton was in office for all 3 of those, which was one reason he was looked at as a coward. The USS Cole was responded to when Bush responded to 9/11 since both were done by the same terrorist organization.
    You could also say the same thing about the embassy bombings then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Tantamount to war? the action of one individual tantamount to declaring war? Why is it that the actions of the men on 9/11 in the name of Islam wasn't enough to declare war against Islam then? Why did so few Imams speak out in rage against the "bombing" of civilian US targets by airplane crashes? Any group that wouldn't call that a reason for war against Islam can't consider the action by 1 lone pastor affecting only paper a call for war, unless they are irrational.

    I only look for consistentcy, and a lack of hypocrisy. Its not the Muslim faith that is the problem, but any religion taken to ridiculous extremes.
    why declare war on islam over one issue? that would be like declaring war on christianity because of David Koresh and his actions.I'm guessing so few Imams spoke out for a few reasons.1.who would let them or want to hear them saying anything after an event like 9/11?.2.so few spoke up because just being assoicated with Islam at this time wasn't safe.The bottom line is the pastor lacks better judgement and may even just be using this to gain more followers/money etc.

    I agree with your last statement any religion taken to an extreme makes for a bad outcome.

    I will liken this to issues we all here at AM can relate to.J.C. Romero pretty much is the reason 6oxo products wil disappear from being legal supplements.american cellular labs is a huge reason ph/ds will eventually be controlled substances in the near future.My point being it only takes one really bad thing to occur before something is ruined for everyone/viewed as bad,evil etc.This is a sad fact of life unfortunately it seems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    why declare war on islam over one issue? that would be like declaring war on christianity because of David Koresh and his actions.I'm guessing so few Imams spoke out for a few reasons.1.who would let them or want to hear them saying anything after an event like 9/11?.2.so few spoke up because just being assoicated with Islam at this time wasn't safe.The bottom line is the pastor lacks better judgement and may even just be using this to gain more followers/money etc.

    I agree with your last statement any religion taken to an extreme makes for a bad outcome.

    I will liken this to issues we all here at AM can relate to.J.C. Romero pretty much is the reason 6oxo products wil disappear from being legal supplements.american cellular labs is a huge reason ph/ds will eventually be controlled substances in the near future.My point being it only takes one really bad thing to occur before something is ruined for everyone/viewed as bad,evil etc.This is a sad fact of life unfortunately it seems.
    Really ??? I do not see how you can compare the two. David Koresh was a loon that ended up burning . Osama attacked the United States and killed how many thousands ???
    Fanatical religious beliefs are the problem IMO.
    The Christian / Muslim war will go on for a very very long time.
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    David Koresh had no actions. He was holed up in his own compound hurting no-one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    Really ??? I do not see how you can compare the two. David Koresh was a loon that ended up burning . Osama attacked the United States and killed how many thousands ???
    Fanatical religious beliefs are the problem IMO.
    The Christian / Muslim war will go on for a very very long time.
    I do agree beliefs taken too far are always a mix for disaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I only look for consistentcy, and a lack of hypocrisy.
    Which excludes 99.99999999% of the world, or there abouts. So why even try?
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    there is one solution to this... and Regan would have ended this on Sept. 12 2001...
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    We will never be a peace with the Muslim world as a whole; we may as well accept that fact and plan accordingly.

    One of the things to consider about Islamic theology is that it encourages violence. Let me first make the distinction between its theology and the mindset of the average Moslem. Not knowing many of the 1.5 billion adherents I can not read their minds. But, I suspect that, like most Christians, worship is more cultural and social rather than spiritual. IOW, from what Iíve seen and read, most adherents (Christian or Moslem) donít know much about the details of their faith.

    But what does matter is what defines a devoted follower. In the New Testament the overall message is unconditional love (both Divine and human). Love is in the will, a free choice. IOW, love can not be coerced. I donít think you will find one verse in the NT that condones violence of any sort.

    Contrast that to Islam. In the 99 attributes of Allah (http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html) the word slave is used repeatedly to describe the relationship between Allah and man. The NT specifically refutes this notion. "No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friendsĒ John 15:15. Other adjectives used are brother and father.

    Also, note how it honors a wife in Islam to beat her and then proceeds to give instruction. Muhammad advocated violence against his enemies. The list goes on.

    One of the main reasons Islam and Christianity conflict is that orthodox Islam is not tolerant. In contrast, when Jones and some of the nut jobs (past and present) express themselves they are going against orthodox Christianity.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. St. Augustine.

    Verses:
    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
    This is why the entire world (not just Christian) has been at war with Islam for 1400 years and will continue indefinitely. We might as well accept the fact and plan accordingly.
  

  
 

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